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Author Topic: THE PERSISTENCE - THE TRAP (DOCUMENT)  (Read 77161 times)
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Tamikosmom
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« Reply #560 on: September 27, 2010, 10:08:15 PM »

Almost one year following the Persistence betrayal ... Kermit exposed Kyle Kingman's own words which had been submitted to the Natalee's Freebirds' forum.  Kyle was furious.  He had backtracked on his original honorable intentions to openly reveal the truth encompassing the trap.  He thought the backtracking implied his words would never leave the Natalee's Freebird forum.  He thought that his career would be spared  He thought that his professional relationship with John Silvetti would be ongoing. Well ... he thought wrong.

The Natalee's Freebirds were all about justice for Natalee and exposing the corruption that had prevented justice from prevailing for an 18 year old American citizen.

It is hard to comprehend that Kyle believed that this group was going to sit on crucial info regarding the furthering of the Aruban cover up agenda or ... was he praying for almost one year that they would?


+++++


Damage is Incalculable!

Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #786 12/17/08 -
ę Reply #540 on: December 19, 2008, 06:15:18 PM Ľ


Kyle sent me this today

Kermit,

.... The information you have been spreading is not only inaccurate and a violation of a non-disclosure, it is slanderous and spreading misinformation. The damage it has done to my professional relationship with J. Silvetti is incalculable which has a direct effect on my ability to provide for my family, which includes my daughter named after Natalee ....

Sincerely,
 Kyle

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4246.msg592482;topicseen#msg592482


Relationship Destroyed!

ldstlou
Re: The Cage ę Reply #157 on: March 19, 2009, 12:25:09 pm Ľ


The last posts are taken from the e-mail that Kyle sent to Jug and I in December ... 

Some exerts:

Quote:
I had questions which were very unsettling about what I had observed during the search including the events surrounding the trap inspection by the Aruban divers and how the samples were handled by ALE - solely Richardson. This made me very uneasy. It was unsettling and I had no one to talk about it with. The Freebird forum was a place where I could safely discuss the unsettling aspects of the search and see if there were any connections. I only did so after the group agreed that nothing would leave the forum. I never wished for any of it to leave the forum.

Quote:
I didn't threaten any of them. I said that I personally didn't want to get sued for breaking a confidentiality agreement with information ending up on the Internet. Them pushing it all out put me at risk legally and jeopardized my relationship with John (which is now destroyed over this). Also, this information did not belong posted on the Internet in the first place. It was a huge naive misjudgement on my part to trust this group enough to share it in confidence.

http://goldmonkey.org/index.php?topic=980.msg12191#msg12191


No Intentions of Spewing

Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman:
  My intentions here at this forum weren't to just spew out all that I know. My intentions were to get a few trusted close people informed, armed, and organized. Then, once organized get a hold of Beth and present things in a controlled private and safe manner. THEN come up with a plan to procede that is well thought-out.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=8341.840
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Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

ďA person of integrity expects to be believed and when heís not, he letís time prove him right.Ē -unknown
Tamikosmom
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« Reply #561 on: September 27, 2010, 10:46:37 PM »

Where was the Rage?

Up until the exposure one year later by Kermit in regards to the Persistence betrayal ... Tim Miller was my hero.  Any nagging doubts ... I justified ... I gave him the benefit of the doubt.

However ... while Monkeys were undermining Kyle for backtracking on his original honorable intentions of exposing the betrayal ... I realized that had revealed that Tim Miller had also originally been troubled by the happenings encompassing the trap.  Where was the rage?  I could not comprehend Tim's silence until it was learned that a professional relationship had been established with John Silvetti.  Then I understood perfectly and ... that understanding filled me with mixed emotions.  There was anger, disappointment and sadness.
Logged

Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

ďA person of integrity expects to be believed and when heís not, he letís time prove him right.Ē -unknown
Tamikosmom
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« Reply #562 on: September 27, 2010, 11:46:01 PM »

Not long after the revelation of Kyle Kingman's own words by Kermit ... Natalee Holloway's uncle had it all figured out.  If the Aruban divers were afforded unchallenged possession of the contents of the cage ... the expense to underwrite the Persistence search ... whether corporate or private donations ... as well as the entire venture ... was all for naught.

There had to be another purpose that the mapping of the ocean floor was taking place ... another reason that had nothing to do with justice for Natalee Holloway ... another reason that had nothing to do with closure for her parents.

+++++

A LARGE CRAB!

private eye
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #708 12/28
ę Reply #897 on: December 30, 2007, 06:30:32 PM Ľ
 

They will have dateline onboard and I understand that they were involved in the Titantic so I assume they have the expertise to preserve any remains or artifacts and have a protocol. They can always find and locate it, call for assistance and then retrieve it. But that is my fear that they imediately turn it over to Aruba where her remains can become that of a large crab.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2481.880


BUT SURELY I'M WRONG!

private eye
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #737 2/29 -
ę Reply #559 on: March 01, 2008, 04:08:07 PM Ľ


I hope that the Persistence has not done all of this work and gone to all of this expense only to have gotten itself into an arrangement whereby Aruban divers are the ones who actually verify the targets and are the first ones to physically retrieve evidence, with no American divers physically with them. If so, all I can say is I just can't believe this has happened. But surely I am wrong.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2662.msg358435#msg358435


A WASTE OF TIME AND EFFORT

private eye
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
ę Reply #499 on: April 09, 2008, 12:39:50 AM Ľ


If I understood Kyle correctly, and that would be that the Arubans retrieved and possessed all finds, not sharing anything with the crew, then that effort was a waste of time and effort. The only thing it could have accomplished was to locate additional evidence for the Arubans to destroy. I am not sure if that was the protocol out of Aruba's waters though. The effort was superb, but the game was fixed.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2769.msg372245;topicseen#msg372245
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Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

ďA person of integrity expects to be believed and when heís not, he letís time prove him right.Ē -unknown
Tamikosmom
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« Reply #563 on: September 28, 2010, 12:32:57 AM »



AN ONGOING OUTREACH FOR FUNDS.  WHY?

Considering the Persistence's ROV analyst had determine that Natalee Holloway's remains may have been inside the cage/trap and ... he had also determined that nothing case related were in any of the remaining targets ... why was there an ongoing outreach for funds?

++++++++

Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman:
  I took the proportions of the body form from the head, to shoulder, to a 90 degree angle which I believed to be the hem line of Natalee's skirt. I then took those proportions and matched them to the photo of Natalee with what she was last seen wearing. The proportions matched within an inch from head, to shoulder, to skirt line. Based on this comparison and with what we believed we saw in the Dec 29th video, Tim Miller contacted the family and told them the 99.9% comment. I told Tim not to do anything until we have forensic results back after the site is processed. Jan 7th we sampled the contents and in my opinion we found the skirt under the sand along with the other items The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured. If it isn't her, it will forever haunt me as a major cosmic WTF.

Kermit - Scared Monkeys


oceanexploration:  Several hours of footage were of other (ROV) dives on other targets. None were of any relevance. Most targets were of peculiar coral pinnacles, man-made debris, and ship wrecks. (3/3/08)

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2668.msg360047;topicseen#msg360047


Kyle Kingman: The logs are in a safe somewhere. John and Ryan Poff (one of John's project managers) knows where it is. I can't get copies of the logs at this time. Perhaps in a few months. The target locations are in the safe, although I also have them in a safe spot.  I don't care about the other targets though. I don't think any of it is of any potential interest. Mainly junk, coral, and debris. (06/28/08)

Kermit - Scared Monkeys


HOWEVER


John Silvetti - Dave Holloway

jdsurveyor1 Newbie Posts: 11
John Silvetti, the Persistence and the Search for Natalee ę
Reply #13 on: April 03, 2008, 07:52:13 PM Ľ


The important thing is to raise funds. It will require corporate support as well as private donations. Dave and Beth have been doing a great job getting the word out and while I was on the island, Dave put me in contact with the head of the Hotel Association who is working on raising a sizeable amount.  So many on the island are supporting our efforts as well as people from all over the world.

The media really blew the cage out of proportion. Although the cage initially provided some moments of "what is in there", I warned all on board that none of this information was to leave the boat. It was very suspect that a cage of this size was found where it was on the seafloor relative to the coast. My feelings were this was highly unusual and probably had something to do with something, but not what we were after. It was decided that the cage would be investigated further by divers, however, it was designated as only a target of interest. The crew moved onto other targets. Unfortunately, inexperience and frustration led to premature statements, including that we had found her I don't think anyone was more upset than I that this information came off the boat and caused the Holloway family more grief!

http://blogsfornatalee.com/forum/index.php?topic=8476.msg334979#msg334979


John Silvetti

BFN
Quote from: LegallyLex on April 03, 2008, 07:42:52 PM


John, a lot of BFN posters have asked me how much money would be needed to complete the search. Can you provide an estimate on what amount would be needed?

John: It is very difficult to say, since Louis has not selected a ROV vessel and we do not know how much of a humanitarian discount we can count on by the vessel and ROV owners, but my guess is that we will be looking at around 1 million dollars.


Louis Schaefer

Holloway searchers need help
Thursday, February 28, 2008 | 8:21 PM


A Kemah businessman has been on the front lines of the search for Natalee, spending over a million dollars of his own money. Over the past four months, he's paid for an underwater search.
 
The morning we were there, Louis Schafer was signing a wire transfer for $250,000. The money used to operate a sophisticated, deep sea survey boat, named the Persistence.

"I've dedicated a million dollars, I've gone way above that," said Louis Schafer of Underwater Expeditions. "I feel like it's time to ask for help from the American people that want to see this case solved."

Natalee Holloway traveled to Aruba two years ago to celebrate her high school graduation and disappeared. Natalee was last seen with Joran Van der Sloot who says he does not know what happened to her.

Schafer made a fortune in the deep sea diving business for oil rig removal and installation. He had access to unique technology and a team of experts that could find just about anything.
 
"So we have completely mapped the ocean floor, we know every object that's there, we know every object that could be a container holding her in the sea," he said.

A relentless search Schafer and his team say will stop, if they don't get more funding.

"And we all feel, I'm speaking from everybody on the team, that she's in one of the targets we have not looked at yet," Tim Trahan of Underwater Expeditions said. "We can't stop. I go to sleep at night thinking we've located it, we just need to get to it."

The search of the rest of those targets will stop this week. For more information on how you can help,

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/local&id=5988951


Kyle Kingman

THE SEARCH FOR NATALEE HOLLOWAY

Kyle Kingman - 02/15/2008


Although we have searched and ruled out an extensive portion of the original planned search area, a substantial portion of the high-probability area yet remains to be explored. Now, following a publicly confirmed admission that Natalee Holloway was disposed at sea, we are confident that completing the focused search area will bring closure. We therefore formally invite and request anyone who this humanitarian effort has touched to get involved and to help support the remaining search efforts. Donations are being handled by Texas Equusearch, a 501 (c) (3) nonprofit organization. Please come beside those who have already given so much to help ensure a proper funeral in Alabama for Natalee Holloway. Please make all donations marked as: "Holloway search".

To learn more about Texas Equusearch and to help support the search for Natalee Holloway, check out: http://www.texasequusearch.org/donate.html

Texas EquuSearch Office:
4013 FM 517, Suite B
Dickinson, Texas 77539
P. O. Box 395, Dickinson, Texas 77539

Office: (281) 309-9500
Fax: (281) 534-6719
Toll Free: (877) 270-9500
Email: donate@texasequusearch.org

Posted by Kyle Kingman
http://nholloway.blogspot.com/2008/02/support-effort.html


Tim Trahan

Holloway searchers need help
hursday, February 28, 2008 | 8:21 PM
By Cynthia Cisneros


A relentless search Schafer and his team say will stop, if they don't get more funding.

"And we all feel, I'm speaking from everybody on the team, that she's in one of the targets we have not looked at yet," Tim Trahan of Underwater Expeditions said. "We can't stop. I go to sleep at night thinking we've located it, we just need to get to it."

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/local&id=5988951


Louis Schaefer - John Silvetti - Tim Miller - Dave Holloway

Debbie
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #820 6/10/09 -
ę Reply #598 on: June 18, 2009, 11:29:24 PM ĽĽ


Okay... there was/is no conspiracy with the Persistence.  Louis, John, Tim and Dave are trying to get the funds to complete the search on the targets.... they are working together.. 
 
Slam me, bash me, I don't care, but it is the truth.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=5127.msg845027;topicseen#msg845027



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Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

ďA person of integrity expects to be believed and when heís not, he letís time prove him right.Ē -unknown
Tamikosmom
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« Reply #564 on: September 28, 2010, 01:14:01 AM »

On February 15, 2008 ... Kyle Kingman was soliciting donations designated to TES to assist in underwriting expenses for an ongoing search for Natalee Holloway's remains. 

However ... the posts that Kyle Kingman submitted to the Natalee's Freebirds' forum imply:

1.  Natalee Holloway's remains may have been recovered unchallenged by Aruban Divers on January 7, 2008.

2.  There is nothing case significant in any of the other targets.

Considering there never was an ongoing search ... what happened to the designated donations.?

Janet

+++++++

Donations are Handled by Texas Equusearch

THE SEARCH FOR NATALEE HOLLOWAY

Kyle Kingman - 02/15/2008


Although we have searched and ruled out an extensive portion of the original planned search area, a substantial portion of the high-probability area yet remains to be explored. Now, following a publicly confirmed admission that Natalee Holloway was disposed at sea, we are confident that completing the focused search area will bring closure. We therefore formally invite and request anyone who this humanitarian effort has touched to get involved and to help support the remaining search efforts. Donations are being handled by Texas Equusearch, a 501 (c) (3) nonprofit organization. Please come beside those who have already given so much to help ensure a proper funeral in Alabama for Natalee Holloway. Please make all donations marked as: "Holloway search".

To learn more about Texas Equusearch and to help support the search for Natalee Holloway, check out: http://www.texasequusearch.org/donate.html

Texas EquuSearch Office:
4013 FM 517, Suite B
Dickinson, Texas 77539
P. O. Box 395, Dickinson, Texas 77539

Office: (281) 309-9500
Fax: (281) 534-6719
Toll Free: (877) 270-9500
Email: donate@texasequusearch.org

Posted by Kyle Kingman
http://nholloway.blogspot.com/2008/02/support-effort.html


January 7, 2008 - We Will Never Know

Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman
: I get done in the survey room backing up the ROV dive and head to the back deck to talk to the Polis divers and see what they sampled and see the Polis boat way in the distance heading away fast. John doesn't seem concerned at all, but I am very dissapointed, concerned, and burning inside because I have a feeling that I/we will never know what they took from the trap. That evening I talked to John asking when we plan on recovering the trap. Previously this was part of the talks and plan, but this time he doesn't seem concerned about ever looking into the trap further. After John verbally BASHED me about the trap for what I said to Tim Miller about the sand body-form and that I believed her skirt was under the sand, John pretty much committed himself to the belief the trap wasn't what we were after. This shocked me because it was exactly what we were looking for- a fish trap lost at sea with human remains


Targets - No Relevance

oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #739 3/3 -
ę Reply #79 on: March 03, 2008, 05:47:47 PM Ľ


Several hours of footage were of other (ROV) dives on other targets. None were of any relevance. Most targets were of peculiar coral pinnacles, man-made debris, and ship wrecks.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2668.msg360047;topicseen#msg360047


Targets - No Potential Interest

Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman: The logs are in a safe somewhere. John and Ryan Poff (one of John's project managers) knows where it is. I can't get copies of the logs at this time. Perhaps in a few months. The target locations are in the safe, although I also have them in a safe spot.  I don't care about the other targets though. I don't think any of it is of any potential interest. Mainly junk, coral, and debris. (06/28/08)

Kermit - Scared Monkeys
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Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

ďA person of integrity expects to be believed and when heís not, he letís time prove him right.Ē -unknown
Tamikosmom
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« Reply #565 on: September 28, 2010, 10:57:21 AM »

WHICH IS IT?

Natalee Holloway Case

We Stayed in a House!  Whose House?

WATT'S UP WITH THIS? STEPH WATTS & TIM MILLER 9/19/2010


Tim Miller:  ... letís go back to the map.  Remember when we went to Aruba, we did not let anybody know that we were going uhhh because we went to go ahead and look at that area just to see if by chance maybe this time Joran van der Sloot was telling the truth, and possibly it was Natalee at this spot.  Media found out we was there but you know what Steph, we stayed in a house...they could not find us in any motels.  We did absolutely no media stuff on it uhhh and I think we did it uhhh only for the best interest of Natalee.

Transcript - Texasmom

Audio:
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/watts-up-with-this/2010/09/20/watts-up-with-this#endframe
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Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

ďA person of integrity expects to be believed and when heís not, he letís time prove him right.Ē -unknown
Tamikosmom
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« Reply #566 on: September 28, 2010, 11:19:56 AM »

Tim Miller - Walk Away Quietly!

WATT'S UP WITH THIS? STEPH WATTS & TIM MILLER 9/19/2010


Tim Miller:  I finally had to get an attorney involved, we exhumed Lauraís body, there were only twenty eight bones there, filed a lawsuit...uhhh we won.  We went...of course there was going to be appealment and I told my attorney I said listen you know what talk to their attorneys.  You know Lee Hamil whoís my attorney I said you know we did not get in this for the money, you tell them to give me the rest of Lauraís remains with the remains that Iíve got and I will walk away from this quietly.

Transcript - Texasmom

Audio:
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/watts-up-with-this/2010/09/20/watts-up-with-this#endframe


Jug Twitty - They Can Do Whatever They Want To Do

"Beth and I have been through this emotional roller coaster. And all we want is Natalee, whether she's alive or dead.  We want to bring her back to the United States, and they can do whatever they want to do."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8551824/


 
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Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

ďA person of integrity expects to be believed and when heís not, he letís time prove him right.Ē -unknown
Tamikosmom
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« Reply #567 on: September 28, 2010, 11:58:13 AM »

The Media

WATT'S UP WITH THIS? STEPH WATTS & TIM MILLER 9/19/2010

Tim Miller:  And so for Beth to go over there...itís one thing if she goes with herself and somebody else (?)  When youíre going over there and youíre taking cameras, now the reports are itís gonna be about another documentary.  Ummm unfortunately (crosstalk) there is gonna be money involved and stuff and I..I..I..just have to totally disagree with her choice.  Totally disagree.

Transcript - Texasmom

Audio:
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/watts-up-with-this/2010/09/20/watts-up-with-this#endframe


WATT'S UP WITH THIS? STEPH WATTS & TIM MILLER 9/19/2010

Tim Miller:  I would like to say I believe this is in Nataleeís best interest... and I would believe that if she wouldnít have went over there with film crews and reports are already out itís about another documentary.  Moneyís going to be paid.  I ... I (crosstalk) It is almost like exploiting...and I know Iím going to get criticism over this but itís only my opinion and uhhh uhhh itís almost like... I feel like sheís exploiting Nataleeís disappearance and death for financial gain.

Transcript - Texasmom

Audio:
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/watts-up-with-this/2010/09/20/watts-up-with-this#endframe


WATT'S UP WITH THIS? STEPH WATTS & TIM MILLER 9/19/2010

Tim Miller:
  ... letís go back to the map.  Remember when we went to Aruba, we did not let anybody know that we were going uhhh because we went to go ahead and look at that area just to see if by chance maybe this time Joran van der Sloot was telling the truth, and possibly it was Natalee at this spot.  Media found out we was there but you know what Steph, we stayed in a house...they could not find us in any motels.  We did absolutely no media stuff on it uhhh and I think we did it uhhh only for the best interest of Natalee.

Transcript - Texasmom

Audio:
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/watts-up-with-this/2010/09/20/watts-up-with-this#endframe


A Double Standard

Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words


Kyle Kingman:  Dateline (Tim Uelinger) had an agreement with Tim Miller to 'do a story to tell about and help promote TES and give TM recognition, and perhaps a 10 minute side-line story on Natalee along with 11 other missing persons. Dateline tagged along with TM for a while pre-NH search. They (TM and Dateline) came on the Persistence between 15-Dec and 30-Dec.

Kermit - Scared Monkeys

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Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

ďA person of integrity expects to be believed and when heís not, he letís time prove him right.Ē -unknown
Tamikosmom
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« Reply #568 on: September 28, 2010, 12:27:18 PM »


Hello everyone. I am still amazed at the support Dave and Beth has received from the world, and this particular group is a shining example of that support. That is to take nothing from the other sites, it is simply a reflection of my lack of knowledge of them. But I am aware of them and appreciate them just as much:) If the world treated everyone like Dave and Beth have been treated by all of you, then this would truly be a great world!!

I am not replying to this quote in particular, I was attracted to the photo as it reminded me of the days when we were blessed to have Natalee among us. But since I arbitrarily picked this one, I will have to respond:) Natalee has gone home, and for that we are all appreciative, as that is where we all want her to go. She just went before we were thru enjoying her company, for reasons we don't understand, and in this case we don't know the method that she traveled.

                                                    Tim Miller

I think that everyone should consider giving Tim a break. I don't appreciate what he said in that particular interview, but I judge friends not from an isolated comment after a long close relationship involving such an intimate and emotional ordeal as the one Beth, Dave, and Tim have experienced the past 5 years; I judge my friends on who is standing with me in my hour of need, and I certainly saw Tim there for Beth and Dave, and it wasn't a token appearance, he has been there for the long haul. The same goes for each and everyone of you. In this world of ultra communications, a fleeting moments of frustration or confusion that results in words, can become broadcast to the world before you can blink, or in real time. Tim had a bad moment, he said a few mean things, but he has earned the right to not be held out for ridicule for making a mistake. I don't think Beth feels any different now than before about Tim. Did the words hurt, I am sure they did a little, but not enough to waste a friendship over. We all say things we wish we could take back from time to time. She thinks he has a heart of gold, the nose of a blood hound, and if she needed him tomorrow, he would show up ready to help. I guess I am trying to say actions speak louder than words, and Tim's actions have earned him my respect, and I am certain that they have earned the respect and friendship of Beth and Dave. Tim is a hell of a guy, maybe not the most thoughtful or eloquent communicator, but he is pretty good at that, usually:), but his forte is hitting the ground and finding the hidden object, and no one does it better. I am certain that Beth would like for everyone to consider Tim a friend, an asset, and a great guy whom that they support. You never know when it might be you searching for a loved one, and it would be a shame if there was no Tim Miller around to help.

I am almost scared to post this, because I feel like I am defying gravity, and I have mis-spoke with this group years ago, and I have experienced the wrath first hand:) But I seem to have been forgiven, and I am hoping Tim can be forgiven by the Monkeys. I'll bet you Beth would like to see everyone forgive him as well. He is a friend of hers. He is on her team, so the stronger he is the stronger the team is.

Anyway, thats it. If I tried to tell the group how great I thought it was, this post would go for pages, maybe even volumes. So, I'll simply say, thanks, you are the best.

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Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
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« Reply #569 on: September 28, 2010, 12:48:13 PM »

If I observed the betrayal on board the Persistence ... the betrayal encompassing the trap ... if I remained silent and ... if I established an ongoing professional  relationship with the betrayer ... I would also wish the Natalee Holloway case would just go away.

Janet

++++++ 


I Want the Natalee Holloway Case to Go Away!!!

WATT'S UP WITH THIS? STEPH WATTS & TIM MILLER 9/19/2010

Tim Miller:  Iím mad too and you know what Steph, I want the Caylee Anthony and Natalee Holloway cases to go away.  (Talks about Valerie Hamilton case)  But you know what..still...I donít know why...I donít know why...Casey Anthony and Beth Holloway are the big stories.  People, you need to get somethiní...Caylee and Natalee are not the only two people that have ever been abducted and murdered.  Those are not the only two people that have suffered.

Transcript - Texasmom

Audio:
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/watts-up-with-this/2010/09/20/watts-up-with-this#endframe
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Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

ďA person of integrity expects to be believed and when heís not, he letís time prove him right.Ē -unknown
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« Reply #570 on: September 28, 2010, 01:12:15 PM »

How can Beth Holloway's actions possibly interfer with a corrupt investigation that has prevented justice from prevailing for 5 1/2 years?  Since when ... according to Tim Miller ... is the FBI and Aruban authorities on the same page ... the same page that desire justice for Natalee Holloway?

++++++

Aruban Authorities and FBI on the Same Page

WATT'S UP WITH THIS? STEPH WATTS & TIM MILLER 9/19/2010

Steph Watts:  So how does she interfere with an ongoing investigation?  She goes over there, confronts him, spooks him, scares him, gets him to tell them the story and now he doesnít want to talk to you know the people he was talking to before.  He throws his hands up in the air and says all this is off...you guys sprung Beth on me.  Thatís how she interferes with an ongoing investigation Tim Miller.  Agree or disagree?

Tim Miller:  I one hundred percent agree... I one hundred percent agree... I .. I think she should have...  Beth needs to understand, Beth is the mother, Beth is not the investigator.  I know for a fact the FBI is working this very, very hard right now, very methodical.  Uhhh theyíre working very, very  close with the authorities in Aruba, they are all on the same page and ummm... were mistakes made in the very beginning?  Yes, they were, they were.. o.k. letís face it.  But you know what everybodyís on the same page now and ummm they could have done absolutely nothing except damage all the work thatís gone into it now.

Transcript - Texasmom

Audio:
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/watts-up-with-this/2010/09/20/watts-up-with-this#endframe
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Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
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ďA person of integrity expects to be believed and when heís not, he letís time prove him right.Ē -unknown
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« Reply #571 on: September 28, 2010, 05:44:07 PM »

An Important Piece of the Puzzle

Tim Miller is a very important piece of the puzzle if there is even a remote chance that Natalee can be returned to her family ... to her country.

Also Tim Miller is a very important piece of the puzzle if there is even a remote chance that a measure of justice will prevail for Natalee Holloway.  Paulus' enfamous words "No Body; No Case" will not longer apply.
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Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

ďA person of integrity expects to be believed and when heís not, he letís time prove him right.Ē -unknown
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« Reply #572 on: September 28, 2010, 05:48:26 PM »

The words of Kyle Kingman convinces me that Tim Miller was on the side of justice for Natalee ... on the side of closure for her family at the time the trap was discovered ... at the time of the visual dive ... at the time he departed from the ship prior to the recovery dive.

What changed?  Why did Tim not go up one side of John Silvetti and down the other when he learned the truth regarding the recovery process that only involved Aruban divers?  Why didn't Tim exposed for all to hear in regards to  the betrayal encompassing the trap ... the trap that may have contained Natalee's remains?   What/who persuaded Tim to become a participant ... a participant through silence ... in the furthering of the Aruban coverup that has prevented justice from prevailing since May 30, 2005?
 
God entrusted Tim with the truth and ... Tim failed Him big time when exposure regarding the Persisence betrayal did not happen and ... when a professional relationship with the betrayer was established.
 
Think about.  Would Tim have remained silent in regards to what he observed on board the Persistence if there was a possibility that the remains of his precious daughter had been in that trap?

Think about it.  Would Tim have embraced a professional relationship with John Silvetti and Louis Schaefer if there was a possibility that the remains of his  precious daughter had been recovered unchallenged by the Aruban enemy?
 
It is never too late to seek forgiveness.  However ... Tim must first bow with genuine repentence ... reveal all to Beth and Dave and ... reveal all to the FBI ... if he desires forgiveness ... forgiveness from Natalee's family  ... forgiveness from those who prayerfully and monetarily supported TES in this venture and ... above all ... forgiveness from God.  There will be personal consequences but ...  the burden which Tim has carried for over 2 1/2 years will have been lifted and ... the truth would prevail..

Private Eye ... the line was drawn in the sand 2000 years ago.  Repentance and forgiveness are a packaged deal.  If we desire our Savior to forgive the sins that we commit against His Holy Name ... genuine repentance is where is is at.

Janet

+++++ 

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.



A Reminder for Tim

Heli Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 8:30 pm

Dana Pretzer
July 20, 2006


Tim Miller:  we never received a grant in our life, we've tried to be self sufficient, we get donations, we have fund raisers. We never, ever ask for money from a family member, we've never asked for money from LE, we won't accept money from family members.

Somehow or another, God has always blessed us to keep our doors open, to make it to the next search.  Before we start a search we always start with a prayer... I'm only the founder of TES, God is our leader and that's why we have the success we have.

http://refugeesunleashed.net/about3669.html
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Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

ďA person of integrity expects to be believed and when heís not, he letís time prove him right.Ē -unknown
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« Reply #573 on: September 28, 2010, 05:56:13 PM »

I am not justifying Kyle's silence in regards to the happenings encompassing the trap but ... he had only about a month's crash course from the Natalee's Freebirds regarding the corrupt Aruban investigation that had prevented justice from prevailing.  In other words ... Kyle had second thought about doing right when it came to risking his entire career by disregarding a confidentiality agreement and exposing the John Silvetti betrayal.

However ... Tim Miller has to be held to a higher degree of accountability than Kyle Kingman when loyalties were compromised in regards to respective betrayals ... in regards to respective ongoing professional relationships with John Silvetti.

At the time ... Tim Miller had over a 2 1/2 years relationship/ connection/ history with Beth and Dave.  He knew where it was at from personal experiences in regards to the nightmare that Aruban authorities had put Natalee's parents through.  Tim had claimed that Natalee's family was his family.  Tim had  claimed that Natalee was like a daughter to him.

Think about it.  Exposing the betrayal to America would have made Tim a hero.  However ... a line was drawn in the sand when Tim chose to remained silent regarding what he observed ... regarding what he knew when he established a professional relationship with the betrayer ... a relationship which is still ongoing.  In other words ... Tim turned his back on Natalee.  Tim turned his back on Natalee's family.  IMO

According to Kyle Kingman ... Natalee's remains may have been in that trap.  I cannot let it go.

++++++

Tim Miller Knows!

Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words


Kyle Kingman:  I found the trap on 1:45am Christmas morning. I got the OK to begin our ROV dive series for the 29th, so I made it our first dive. We got visual of the fish trap and that it was suspicious. Basically, the fish trap door was open and there appeared to be a skull and torso-shape in sand on the door inside the trap Reviewing the 29-Dec video I noticed the torso shape in sand had a 90 degree angle and that the sand was supported from falling through the bottom of the trap, which was slightly excavated by currents. I proportioned out the distance from the top of the head, to shoulder, to that 90 degree angle and it was a match to Natalee's photo of her standing -head, to shoulder, to the end of her denim skirt. I showed TM the proportional match and the possibility of a skirt under the sand and he said he's going to tell the parents. I said definitely not until we sample the trap and get results. He made the call to Dave and Beth independently.

Kyle Kingman:  Later that day 30-Dec we conducted the dive with the Aruban divers along with our own Tim Trahan.  He couldn't tell by his own admission
 
Kyle Kingman:  I requested all samples to be brought on board the Persistence for visual and top-side photographs. It was ignored by the project lead (John S.) who felt the Arubans would follow whatever they needed to do as far as proper protocol.

Kyle Kingman:  By Tim's (Trahan) own admission, his observation of the inside of the trap (lasting a few seconds) was inconclusive

Kyle Kingman:  The Arubans told us there wasn't anything of interest in the trap based on the visual-only inspection (Dateline and Tim Miller present).
 
Kyle Kingman:  John definitely believed the Arubans at their every word when they said on Dec 30th that it was nothing case relevant.

Kyle Kingman:  It's unanimous that Tim M. should never have told Dave and Beth anything about the trap until it's contents were forensically examined.  After the diver visual inspection of the trap he was obligated to report what the Aruban divers reported because although limited, it's the only information he had and the family rightfully wanted answers. It was a royal mess.

Kyle Kingman:  On the night of the 30th (I believe this was Tim's last night on the Persistence) I approached Tim and proposed some ideas to him. I suggested that we shouldn't take the Aruban Polis divers at their word and proceed with planning a recovery of the trap. Also, I proposed the trap site may not be pristine or the Polis may have already knew about it. This statement was backed up by several comments we heard, behavior we observed, and other things. Tim told me he thought I was right but didn't know what to do about it.

Kyle Kingman:  After the Dec 30th dive John [Silvetti] didn't want Tim Miller on board the Persistence because he said Tim wasn't necessary any more and was a liability. I don't know what that exactly means, but Tim wasn't hurting anything except releasing the statements to the press and Holloways that we found Natalee.

Kermit - Scared Monkeys
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Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

ďA person of integrity expects to be believed and when heís not, he letís time prove him right.Ē -unknown
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« Reply #574 on: September 28, 2010, 06:03:02 PM »

Tim was so H--- bent on bashing Beth ... he was not considering the implication of his words.  Why was Tim so angry at Beth ... at Natalee?  Is there something about to happen that is going to reveal to the world his participation in the John Silvetti's betrayal ... the John Silvetti's betrayal which was exposed by Kyle Kingman's own words?

+++++++

Natalee Holloway's Mother

"We cannot forget to demand and expect to have Natalee. Natalee deserves to return to her country. She deserves it, and everyone knows it, every single person. Every single person knows that. They know it."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8485029/


Natalee Holloway's Stepfather

"Beth and I have been through this emotional roller coaster. And all we want is Natalee, whether she's alive or dead.  We want to bring her back to the United States, and they can do whatever they want to do."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8551824/
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Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

ďA person of integrity expects to be believed and when heís not, he letís time prove him right.Ē -unknown
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« Reply #575 on: September 28, 2010, 06:15:18 PM »


Maybe Beth Holloway had made the decision that upholding the TES  organization was not going to happen ... the TES organization whose founder had become a Judas to the cause of justice for her daughter.

Does Tim Miller's lashing out at Beth and Beth's failure to respond imply that  something big is impending?
 
Tick Tock

++++++

Hamlet - The lady doth protest too much, methinks.
Gertrude, scene ii


WATT'S UP WITH THIS? STEPH WATTS & TIM MILLER 9/19/2010

Steph Watts:  ... Has Beth Holloway ever donated any money towards Texas Equusearch from her organization which I know for a fact from which I understand made millions and millions of dollars in donations.

Tim Miller:  Can everybody just kind of read between the lines, then letís go to the next subject.  I can say this.  Beth was supposed to come to one of our fundraisers this year.  She was supposed to come to one earlier in the year and then at the last minute had to back out and that was o.k.  And we had... you know she never travels alone...you know we had two airline tickets ummm that of course we lost.  And she was supposed to come to our other one that we had in April and the day before the Fundraiser she canceled and it was advertised all over that Beth was gonna be here.  And Iíve never forget what Beth said...she said well Tim I didnít realize I was supposed to speak.  And I said Beth itís not gonna be your (?) speech that you normally do on the dangers of traveling abroad, theyíve got you penciled in for four minutes just to say you know how much you appreciated Equusearch and what they did you know to try to find your daughter.  And she said well you know I get paid for speaking and it was like alright...so anyhow she wasnít there uhh at that fundraiser so anyhow and you know I wish we wouldnít of touched on that subject but the truth is the truth.

Transcript - Texasmom

Audio:
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/watts-up-with-this/2010/09/20/watts-up-with-this#endframe
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Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

ďA person of integrity expects to be believed and when heís not, he letís time prove him right.Ē -unknown
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« Reply #576 on: September 28, 2010, 08:56:45 PM »

Tim Miller is not stupid.  He knows darn well that justice for Natalee Holloway was never the an option when it came the Aruban investigation.  It was all about protecting Joran, Paulus and Aruba's underground economy.  It makes sense that the constant presence of Aruban authorities during the Persistence search was all about preventing the truth regarding the happenings encompassing the morning of May 30, 2005 from being revealed.  The unchallenged recovery of the trap's contents imply the strategy worked.

If Monkeys were not duped ... it makes sense that Tim Miller was not duped.

++++++

Free Meals!  Free Motels!  Assistance with the Search!

WATT'S UP WITH THIS? STEPH WATTS & TIM MILLER 9/19/2010

Tim Miller: Anybody can say what they want about Aruba but you know what...they gave us free motel rooms, they gave us free meals, they did everything to accommodate us...to help us out when we was doing the search for Natalee.  And then uhhh I certainly would not support the boycott.

Transcript - Texasmom

Audio:
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/watts-up-with-this/2010/09/20/watts-up-with-this#endframe
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Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

ďA person of integrity expects to be believed and when heís not, he letís time prove him right.Ē -unknown
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« Reply #577 on: September 29, 2010, 12:24:24 AM »

Food for Thought

Would Tim jeopardize chance his close relationship with Robin and Dave by despicably bashing Beth?

++++++

WATT'S UP WITH THIS? STEPH WATTS & TIM MILLER 9/19/2010

Tim Miller:  Well they was actually fishing trying to get away and relax a little bit in Louisiana (Falker Louisiana) and I got a call very late last night from Robin and they was afraid Dave had a heart attack.

Transcript - Texasmom

Audio:
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/watts-up-with-this/2010/09/20/watts-up-with-this#endframe


WATT'S UP WITH THIS? STEPH WATTS & TIM MILLER 9/19/2010

Tim Miller:  So again, you know I talked to Robin several times today and uhh Dave has became just a real real close friend of mine, uhhh I regret not meeting Dave Holloway twenty years ago you know and I just love him as a person and for what heís gone through and Iím there to support him.

Transcript - Texasmom

Audio:
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/watts-up-with-this/2010/09/20/watts-up-with-this#endframe


WATT'S UP WITH THIS? STEPH WATTS & TIM MILLER 9/19/2010

Tim Miller:  Uhhh yeah, and I mean Dave is a very, very strong person, uhhh Dave uhhh certainly has a lot of faith and uhhh is a very God fearing person and uhhh I think the support he gets from uhhh all his friends and supporters and the trust he has in God and stuff is the only thing thatís gotten Dave through it as well as heís gotten through it and I give him a big pat on the back and an A+.  Heís stayed very very humble through this whole thing...very, very focused and ummm heís been very, very patient and again heís...Iím just very, very proud to say that Daveís my friend and ummm and certainly right now Iíve got concerns about his health.  And again I know everybody...you know keep him in your prayers and uhhh letís all work together to get through this.

Transcript - Texasmom

Audio:
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/watts-up-with-this/2010/09/20/watts-up-with-this#endframe
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Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

ďA person of integrity expects to be believed and when heís not, he letís time prove him right.Ē -unknown
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« Reply #578 on: September 29, 2010, 11:25:57 AM »

If the Persistence search was all about locating Natalee Holloway's remains ... the 1.8 million dollars spent was all for naught if there was no protocol in place that would assure the Aruban enemy ... who had prevented justice from prevailing since May 30, 2005 ... did not have unchallenged possession of anything discovered that could be case related.

++++++


WATT'S UP WITH THIS? STEPH WATTS & TIM MILLER 9/19/2010

Tim Miller:  Oh my God...Louis Schaefer...when we went over there for three weeks...ended up there almost three months in the deep water search.  Spent...put a million dollar budget on it...spent 1.8 million.  Iíve been there nine different times...(interrupted)

Steph Watts:  1.8 million?

Tim Miller: 1.8 million, I.8 million...let me tell you this...thereís way, way, way over two million dollars .... 

Transcript - Texasmom

Audio:
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/watts-up-with-this/2010/09/20/watts-up-with-this#endframe


Extremely Uncomfortable

oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #744 3/19 -
ę Reply #201 on: March 19, 2008, 08:21:47 PM Ľ


We had little option other than to have the Aruban dive division recover the samples and bring them back under their care.  Remember we are Americans working in Aruban waters, subject to their laws, invitation, and blessing.  Our hands are tied for the most part. I personally was extremely uncomfortable with the chain of custody, being that we weren't a part of it, but I was powerless to do anything about it.  The samples were photographed in detail by one Aruban diver and the other two investigated the contents of the trap, the dimensions, the rigging, and what surrounded the trap.  From the video, it looked like they did a diligent and careful job with the samples and the underwater photography.  I don't know who has these pictures, but I must assume ALE.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2721.msg366857;topicseen#msg366857


Evidence for the Arubans to Destroy

private eye
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
ę Reply #499 on: April 09, 2008, 12:39:50 AM Ľ


If I understood Kyle correctly, and that would be that the Arubans retrieved and possessed all finds, not sharing anything with the crew, then that effort was a waste of time and effort. The only thing it could have accomplished was to locate additional evidence for the Arubans to destroy.  I am not sure if that was the protocol out of Aruba's waters though. The effort was superb, but the game was fixed.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2769.msg372245;topicseen#msg372245


Simply Uninvited!

Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman:
  We had an American diver with us on the Dec 30th dive. We were encouraged to do so and invited by the Arubans. I requested all samples to be brought on board the Persistence for visual and top-side photographs. It was ignored by the project lead (John S.) who felt the Arubans would follow whatever they needed to do as far as proper protocol.

Kyle Kingman: The FBI told me they could not send a representative down to us in Aruba unless they were specifically invited to do so by the Aruban authorities. They were simply uninvited.

Kyle Kingman:  The FBI said they needed an invitation. I brought it up to Mos and Richardson and they were talking as if it were a possibility along with a Dutch forensic team. Mos said it would take about 10-14 days to have a Dutch forensic team on site. Never heard another word about it.

Kermit - Scared Monkeys
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Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

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« Reply #579 on: September 29, 2010, 11:30:05 AM »

(Continued)

Kyle Kingman: I get done in the survey room backing up the ROV dive and head to the back deck to talk to the Polis divers and see what they sampled and see the Polis boat way in the distance heading away fast. John doesn't seem concerned at all, but I am very dissapointed, concerned, and burning inside because I have a feeling that I/we will never know what they took from the trap. That evening I talked to John asking when we plan on recovering the trap. Previously this was part of the talks and plan, but this time he doesn't seem concerned about ever looking into the trap further. After John verbally BASHED me about the trap for what I said to Tim Miller about the sand body-form and that I believed her skirt was under the sand, John pretty much committed himself to the belief the trap wasn't what we were after. This shocked me because it was exactly what we were looking for- a fish trap lost at sea with human remains.

Kermit - Scared Monkeys
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Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

ďA person of integrity expects to be believed and when heís not, he letís time prove him right.Ē -unknown
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