THE PERSISTENCE - THE TRAP (DOCUMENT)

[Tamikosmom]

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/06/03/earlyshow/main6544006.shtml

NEW YORK, June 3, 2010
Holloway Ally: Flores Murder Brings It All Back

Missing Persons Search Group Founder: Aruba Police Commissioner Said van der Sloot Responsible for Natalee's Death

(CBS)  Five years after Natalee Holloway went missing, the man who has previously been arrested twice in connection with her disappearance, Joran van der Sloot, is now being sought in another killing, that of Stephany Flores, 21, whose body was found Sunday in Lima, Peru.

Tim Miller, founder of Texas Equusearch, a non-profit organization that searches for missing persons, has assisted with the search of Natalee Holloway from almost the beginning, and has become very close with the Holloway family over the last five years.

Miller spoke to Natalee Holloway's father, David Holloway, on Wednesday. Miller said David sends his condolences to Flores' family in Peru.

Miller said, "(David is) talking about what a senseless death that was, that we feel as though the cover-up that went on in Aruba, with Joran van der Sloot never being arrested, that we need to hold a lot of people accountable for Stephany's death in Peru. I mean, a very, very sad time for everybody. And Dave is just trying to, I think, just digest what's really happening in his life again right now. And of course it brings it all back to Dave and Beth, I'm sure that it's like it happened like yesterday. So there's disappointment, there's anger, there's frustrations. And, again, Stephany, there's no reason she should be dead today. Somebody made some huge mistakes over there."

<snipped>

Which is it?  Did a corrupt investigation possess a cover up agenda or ... did justice fail to prevail for Natalee Holloway because of "mistakes"?

+++++

Free Meals!  Free Motels!  Assistance with the Search!

WATT'S UP WITH THIS? STEPH WATTS & TIM MILLER 9/19/2010

Tim Miller: Anybody can say what they want about Aruba but you know what...they gave us free motel rooms, they gave us free meals, they did everything to accommodate us...to help us out when we was doing the search for Natalee.  And then uhhh I certainly would not support the boycott.

Transcript - Texasmom

Audio:
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/watts-up-with-this/2010/09/20/watts-up-with-this#endframe


Mistakes!!!

WATT'S UP WITH THIS? STEPH WATTS & TIM MILLER 9/19/2010

Steph Watts:  So how does she interfere with an ongoing investigation?  She goes over there, confronts him, spooks him, scares him, gets him to tell them the story and now he doesn’t want to talk to you know the people he was talking to before.  He throws his hands up in the air and says all this is off...you guys sprung Beth on me.  That’s how she interferes with an ongoing investigation Tim Miller.  Agree or disagree?

Tim Miller:  I one hundred percent agree... I one hundred percent agree... I .. I think she should have...  Beth needs to understand, Beth is the mother, Beth is not the investigator.  I know for a fact the FBI is working this very, very hard right now, very methodical.  Uhhh they’re working very, very  close with the authorities in Aruba, they are all on the same page and ummm... were mistakes made in the very beginning?  Yes, they were, they were.. o.k. let’s face it.  But you know what everybody’s on the same page now and ummm they could have done absolutely nothing except damage all the work that’s gone into it now.

Transcript - Texasmom

Audio:
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/watts-up-with-this/2010/09/20/watts-up-with-this#endframe

[Tamikosmom]

The Persistence was a strange deal, but I thought Tim was just aboard for the ride so to speak, and not as the Captain or in the know. Tim called Beth almost in tears he was so excited the night before the recovery. He is not that smooth of an operator to have faked his sincerity. Does he know more now? Only he knows that, and by his silence I assume he doesn't. Especially since Kyle seems to not know what happened as well.  But something happened, I agree.

Tim contacted Beth and Dave the night before the visual dive after Kyle conducted the first ROV dive and then analyzed the images.  At this point in time Tim was all about justice for Natalee and closure for his family.  However the happenings of the next day December 30, 2007 encompassing the visual dive are what concerned Tim and Kyle.  Tim left the ship on January 1, 2008 and was not present for the January 7, 2008 recovery dive ... the recovery dive that furthered Kyle's concerns.

When Kyle Kingman's own words in the posts submitted to the SM forum by Kermit are considered ... I find it so difficult to comprehend how anybody can claim that neither Tim nor Kyle were aware of the troubled happenings encompassing the trap.

The betrayal by Kyle and Tim does not involve the trap per se.  The betrayal is the silence of these two men regarding their concerns.  The betrayal is the perception that silence implied professional benefits for both men.

++++++

December 29, 2007 - The First ROV Dive

Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman:  I took the proportions of the body form from the head, to shoulder, to a 90 degree angle which I believed to be the hem line of Natalee's skirt. I then took those proportions and matched them to the photo of Natalee with what she was last seen wearing. The proportions matched within an inch from head, to shoulder, to skirt line. Based on this comparison and with what we believed we saw in the Dec 29th video, Tim Miller contacted the family and told them the 99.9% comment. I told Tim not to do anything until we have forensic results back after the site is processed. Jan 7th we sampled the contents and in my opinion we found the skirt under the sand along with the other items The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured. If it isn't her, it will forever haunt me as a major cosmic WTF.

Kermit - Scared Monkeys


December 30, 2007 - The Visual Dive - The Second ROV Dive

Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman:  We had an American diver with us on the Dec 30th dive. We were encouraged to do so and invited by the Arubans. I requested all samples to be brought on board the Persistence for visual and top-side photographs. It was ignored by the project lead (John S.) who felt the Arubans would follow whatever they needed to do as far as proper protocol.

Kyle Kingman:  Later that day 30-Dec we conducted the dive with the Aruban divers along with our own Tim Trahan.  He couldn't tell by his own admission.

Kyle Kingman:  By Tim's (Trahan) own admission, his observation of the inside of the trap (lasting a few seconds) was inconclusive.

Kyle Kingman:  The Arubans told us there wasn't anything of interest in the trap based on the visual-only inspection (Dateline and Tim Miller present).

Kyle Kingman:  John definitely believed the Arubans at their every word when they said on Dec 30th that it was nothing case relevant.

Kyle Kingman:  It's unanimous that Tim M. should never have told Dave and Beth anything about the trap until it's contents were forensically examined.  After the diver visual inspection of the trap he was obligated to report what the Aruban divers reported because although limited, it's the only information he had and the family rightfully wanted answers. It was a royal mess.

Kyle Kingman:  On the night of the 30th (I believe this was Tim's last night on the Persistence) I approached Tim and proposed some ideas to him. I suggested that we shouldn't take the Aruban Polis divers at their word and proceed with planning a recovery of the trap. Also, I proposed the trap site may not be pristine or the Polis may have already knew about it. This statement was backed up by several comments we heard, behavior we observed, and other things. Tim told me he thought I was right but didn't know what to do about it.

Kermit - Scared Monkeys


January 7, 2008 - The Recovery Dive - The Third ROV Dive

Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman: I get done in the survey room backing up the ROV dive and head to the back deck to talk to the Polis divers and see what they sampled and see the Polis boat way in the distance heading away fast. John doesn't seem concerned at all, but I am very dissapointed, concerned, and burning inside because I have a feeling that I/we will never know what they took from the trap. That evening I talked to John asking when we plan on recovering the trap. Previously this was part of the talks and plan, but this time he doesn't seem concerned about ever looking into the trap further. After John verbally BASHED me about the trap for what I said to Tim Miller about the sand body-form and that I believed her skirt was under the sand, John pretty much committed himself to the belief the trap wasn't what we were after. This shocked me because it was exactly what we were looking for- a fish trap lost at sea with human remains.

Kermit - Scared Monkeys

[Tamikosmom]

There was a time that SS was one with Monkeys who comprehended perfectly the Persistence betrayal ... the Persistence betrayal which was revealed by Kyle Kingsman in his posts to the Natalee's Freebirds' forum.

Janet 

++++++

REMINDER

There was a short period in time when SS was a believer in Kyle Kingman's own words in regards to a John Silvetti betrayal to Natalee Holloway and her family?  She had it figured out perfectly.

She went from unwavering support of CAPS and ... challenging anyone who dared question the actions or the motives of the Persistence endeavor ... to a full comprehension that CAPS was placed on the SM forum to distract from the happenings encompassing the trap/cage.

However ... inquiring minds do want to know what/who persuaded SS to backtracked from her new found awareness and return to her orginal position of support in regards to CAPS and John Silvetti.  Why did SS not share her motivation with the SM forum?
_____

SS - NOVEMBER/DECEMBER, 2008

SS
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #775 11/16/08 thru
on: November 17, 2008, 08:32:15 PM  

Monkeys - Kyle said that he discovered the trap on the screen very early Christmas morning.  That's when Tim said  "it looks like a skull".  The contents of the trap were cleaned on January 7th.  Persistence continued to use side scan sonor to map the ocean floor well into February.  Now how could they justify all of those extra weeks of searching for a missing American woman if they had already found her in the beginning of January?  They also needed to get our focus off of Persistence and the ocean search.  Viola!  Caps enters the picture to tell us about Manserat Pond.  The picture of the cage was never supposed to be released and I'm sure that caused big trouble.  All of the evidence disappeared.  The fabric sent to Quantico wasn't Natalee's blouse.  There wasn't anything else in the cage - it was just a coconut or a piece of coral.  Back to the ocean search for Peristence so that they could continue with the grids and their non profit search.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4129.msg546635#msg546635


SS
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
« Reply #156 on: December 04, 2008, 02:08:35 AM »

1.  Silvetti's businesses were in trouble.  He wanted to start new businesses with oil and an oil pipeline from Aruba to Chavez in Colombia.  He needed money.

2.  He illegally sold off his shares of stock and that is why the SEC is after him.

3.  Before he started his new oil business, he needed to have a geological scan of the ocean floor.  Doing those scans costs lots of money.

4.  He agreed to volunteer his ship, crew, and equipment to search for a missing American woman in the same area.  He scans the ocean floor looking for Natalee, but really he's doing oil work.

5.  Most of his expenses for the Persistence search were written off on his corporate tax returns because it was charity work and a donation that he was doing.  By looking for Natalee, he was able to map the ocean for free.

6.  Natalee was found in the end of December.  Oh no, what can he do?  He can't keep mapping the ocean floor for free because he just found the missing American woman.  So, the trap contents were turned over to ALE, nothing was ever in that trap. and he continued to search for Natalee and map for oil for another 6 to 8 weeks -at very little expense to himself.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4186.msg565794;topicseen#msg565794


SS
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #775 11/16/08 thru
« Reply #310 on: November 17, 2008, 11:53:15 PM »

Jossy and John are friends.  John went to Aruba in March to attend a Mansur wedding.

Has anyone thought about the possibility that the Mansurs own the mineral rights on the ocean floor?  They own 80% of the island.  I wouldn't be at all surprised if they own the mineral rights under the ocean shelf.  Translated that means whoever owns the mineral rights makes money off of every barrel of oil that is brought to the surface and John Silvetti had just finished the geological survey to determine where to place the off shore wells.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4129.msg546590#msg546590


SS
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #775 11/16/08 thru
« Reply #322 on: November 18, 2008, 12:22:13 AM »

Oil in that area of the Carribbean is touchy because of Chavez.  He owns everything.  The US needs allys with oil.  Is that why they have been easy on Aruba?  They didn't want the world to know that they planning off shore exploration and drilling.  Another factor was probably money.  Geological exploration is expensive.  Silvetti's company was just about bankrupt.  Wouldn't it be nice to have all of those mapping expenses written off because it was done for the purpose of searching for the body of a missing American woman.  Their survey was done for a nonprofit organization.  How magnanimous.  Crappy Island will be a boom town if they drill for oil and find it and the Mansurs will greatly increase their fortune.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4129.320


SS
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #782 12/5/08 -
« Reply #726 on: December 06, 2008, 04:23:52 PM »

I agree with you, Janet.  I thought a lot about it last night, after I finally had to turn my computer off and just think.  In his heart, I'm sure that Tim Miller believed what he had seen or he wouldn't have said, Bull$hit with the thumbs down.  However, he had no control over all of that pphotographic equipment and perhaps he was only being shown what they wanted him to see.  There was a very good reason why they had to get him off of Persistence before January 7th.  I don't think that Dave or Tim would have gone to Nicaragua if they didn't think it was a viable lead.  I wonder if ALE are the ones who set it all up as another one of their infamous diversion tactics

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4209.msg569218#msg569218


SS
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #782 12/5/08 -
« Reply #697 on: December 06, 2008, 03:26:15 PM »

Blue Moon - great reference!  I have pretty much been a believer that Natalee was buried on land, but after Kyle's calculations, I don't think so anymore.  Kyle is a trained oceanographer and he has been taught how to make those calculations of objects on the ocean floor.  Kyle's calculations are actually the first piece of scientific data that we have after three and a half years.  I wonder if it would be too much of a stretch to hope that the release of the cage photographs somehow has forced Rudy's hand???  They can't deny any longer that something was in the cage.  There are photographs to prove the lie.  Whether or not they have destroyed the actual cage contents remains to be seen.  If the evidence has been destroyed, Richardson and Mos could also be in trouble along with Paulass and Uncle Jan.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4209.msg569178#msg569178


SS
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #782 12/5/08 -
« Reply #702 on: December 06, 2008, 03:41:17 PM »

Tim became a liability because her had the film footage from the 29th and the 30th.  He knew what was in the cage.  Just from the original Photographs on the 29th, we can clearly see a skull and a shoe.  I think Tim probably became a source of contention and was distracted away from the ship so the contents could be turned over to ALE.  Tim has to have figured out what happened.  I wonder if it's difficult for him to look at Beth and Dave in their eyes.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4209.msg569184#msg569184


SS
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #782 12/5/08 -
« Reply #678 on: December 06, 2008, 01:52:46 PM »

I don't think anything would surprise me at this point.  This story is getting sicker by the day.  How could they just hand all of that evidence over to ALE and deny that they had found anything???  And, sit silently by when our FBI was sent a piece of nothing?

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4209.msg569137#msg569137
__________


Dialogue - SS and Tamikosmom:


SS
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #778 11/23/08 -
« Reply #755 on: November 24, 2008, 10:13:44 PM »

I have some feelings about the photographs and I wonder if others feel the same way that I do.  If Louis, John, and Kyle had hidden those photographs from ALE so that they could be turned over to Beth, Dave, and US authorities, it would have been a dishonest action, but it would have been in the best interests of everyone.  ALE has been so despicable from day one, and under handed handling of evidence would have been a double standard, but I would have supported it and jumped up and down with cheers.  Unfortunately, that isn't what happened.  The evidence was hidden from Beth, Dave, and the American public and the photographs were never even given to the FBI by members of the Persistence group.  When I hear that there is even a remote possibility that Louis Schafer sold those photographs for big bucks and that Kyle attempted to sell the photographs to networks last February, I just want to scream.  These actions are beyond explanation or justification.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4173.msg556201#msg556201
 

Tamikosmom
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #778 11/23/08 -
« Reply #774 on: November 24, 2008, 10:39:01 PM »

I wish Kyle would respond to these allegations.

Thanks SS.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4173.msg556243#msg556243


SS
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #778 11/23/08 -
« Reply #784 on: November 24, 2008, 10:46:48 PM »

Dinners over... I ate my crow and it didn't very good at all.  I am so sorry for going at you.  I was so convinced that everything and everyone involved with Perisistence were above reproach.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4173.msg556257;topicseen#msg556257

;topicseen#msg556257

[Tamikosmom]

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/beth-holloway-announces-mayday360-104001238.html

Beth Holloway Announces Mayday360
 
Travel and Safety Assistance for Americans Traveling Abroad

NEW YORK, Sept. 29 /PRNewswire/ -- Travel safety educator Beth Holloway today announced the launch of Mayday360, the first inexpensive travel and safety assistance service for Americans traveling abroad. Mayday360 has a global team of high level safety and travel experts from Investigative Management Group, a leader in corporate and individual security, on call 24/7 to help travelers and their families navigate the maze of international law and local security issues in case of emergency.

Holloway, whose daughter Natalee went missing in Aruba five years ago, has firsthand experience dealing with an international emergency.  "Your initial instinct is how to physically get to that destination," Holloway said. "You reach for the phone to dial 911, but that can't help you. What you need to do is reach local law enforcement, but you don't know who and how?  Mayday360 is the fast, practical answer." 

"In the critical few days after Natalee went missing, I needed immediate access to people with influence and experience to ensure that everything that could be done was happening quickly," said Holloway. "Tragically, I didn't have the help I needed.  That's why I co-founded Mayday 360."

For a yearly fee starting at $99, Mayday360 members will receive an international collect call number to connect to a security professional who can offer support, advice and information.  Members will also have access to a secure travel document and data storage service to enable quick replacement of lost or stolen documents, and they will receive customized travel advisories and safety information. Membership also includes a customized iPhone application that members can use to send their global location and emergency contact information to Mayday 360 and to reach the Emergency Helpline.  When needed, for additional fees, personnel from Mayday360's global network of 500 security experts can be deployed anywhere in the world to provide on-the-ground assistance.   


SOURCE Mayday360

Corporations need to sign up for this service. Especially with overseas business travel being so in demand now.

The Serenity Prayer

God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference.


Natalee Holloway: Lost in Paradise
TLC – 2010-01-17

Beth Holloway:

I stay focused on what I can do rather than what I cannot.

http://tlc.discovery.com/tv-schedules/special.html?paid=2.1213.56293


Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway

Page 219:   I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.

[Tamikosmom]

THE ISSUE OF FORGIVENESS

Luke 23:35
Jesus said, "Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing." 

The forgiveness that our Savior was refering to as He hung from the Cross at Calvary was a conditional forgiveness.  As far as the Roman soldiers were concerned ... Jesus was being crucified for proclaiming that He was God ... a crime under Roman law.  The soldiers had no idea that Jesus ... the One they were crucifying ... was the Promised Messiah.

The Scriptures are not difficult to comprehend ... the commandments within are not contradictory.  Common sense prevails.

When Tim Miller and Kyle Kingsman are considered ... both men are fully aware that their respective silences regarding the happenings encompasses the trap are betrayals to Natalee and her family.  Forgiveness for Tim and Kyle implies sincere repentance.

IMO

[Tamikosmom]

THE ISSUE OF FORGIVENESS

It is never too late to seek forgiveness.  However ... if forgiveness is desired from God ... from Natalee's family ... from those who prayerfully and monetarily supported the Persistence endeavor ... each individual on board the Persistence who is aware of the truth encompassing the contents of the trap must bow with genuine repentence ... reveal all to Beth and Dave and ... reveal all to the FBI.   The fallout will imply personal consequences but ...  the burden carried for over 2 1/2 years will have been lifted and ... the truth has a chance to prevail..

The line was drawn in the sand 2000 years ago.  Repentance and forgiveness is a packaged deal.  If we desire forgiveness from our Savior to atone for the sins that we commit against His Holy Name ... genuine repentance is where is is at.

+++++ 

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.

[Tamikosmom]

A Reminder for Tim

Heli Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 8:30 pm

Dana Pretzer
July 20, 2006

Tim Miller:  we never received a grant in our life, we've tried to be self sufficient, we get donations, we have fund raisers. We never, ever ask for money from a family member, we've never asked for money from LE, we won't accept money from family members.

Somehow or another, God has always blessed us to keep our doors open, to make it to the next search.  Before we start a search we always start with a prayer... I'm only the founder of TES, God is our leader and that's why we have the success we have.

http://refugeesunleashed.net/about3669.html

[Tamikosmom]

Tim was a Liability!

Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman:  After the Dec 30th dive John [Silvetti] didn't want Tim Miller on board the Persistence because he said Tim wasn't necessary any more and was a liability. I don't know what that exactly means, but Tim wasn't hurting anything except releasing the statements to the press and Holloways that we found Natalee.

Kermit - Scared Monkeys

[Tamikosmom]

If the Persistence search was all about locating Natalee Holloway's remains in the cause of justice for Natalee and closure for her family ... the 1.8 million dollars spent was all for naught if there was no protocol in place ... a protocol that would assure the Aruban enemy ... who had prevented justice from prevailing since May 30, 2005 ... did not have unchallenged possession of anything discovered that was deemed possible case related ... did not have the opportunity to further the Aruban cover up agenda.

++++++

WATT'S UP WITH THIS? STEPH WATTS & TIM MILLER 9/19/2010

Tim Miller:  Oh my God...Louis Schaefer...when we went over there for three weeks...ended up there almost three months in the deep water search.  Spent...put a million dollar budget on it...spent 1.8 million.  I’ve been there nine different times...(interrupted)

Steph Watts:  1.8 million?

Tim Miller: 1.8 million, I.8 million...let me tell you this...there’s way, way, way over two million dollars .... 

Transcript - Texasmom

Audio:
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/watts-up-with-this/2010/09/20/watts-up-with-this#endframe


Extremely Uncomfortable

oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #744 3/19 -
« Reply #201 on: March 19, 2008, 08:21:47 PM »

We had little option other than to have the Aruban dive division recover the samples and bring them back under their care.  Remember we are Americans working in Aruban waters, subject to their laws, invitation, and blessing.  Our hands are tied for the most part. I personally was extremely uncomfortable with the chain of custody, being that we weren't a part of it, but I was powerless to do anything about it.  The samples were photographed in detail by one Aruban diver and the other two investigated the contents of the trap, the dimensions, the rigging, and what surrounded the trap.  From the video, it looked like they did a diligent and careful job with the samples and the underwater photography.  I don't know who has these pictures, but I must assume ALE.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2721.msg366857;topicseen#msg366857


Evidence for the Arubans to Destroy

private eye
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
« Reply #499 on: April 09, 2008, 12:39:50 AM »

If I understood Kyle correctly, and that would be that the Arubans retrieved and possessed all finds, not sharing anything with the crew, then that effort was a waste of time and effort. The only thing it could have accomplished was to locate additional evidence for the Arubans to destroy.  I am not sure if that was the protocol out of Aruba's waters though. The effort was superb, but the game was fixed.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2769.msg372245;topicseen#msg372245


Complete Trust in the Enemy

Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman:  I requested all samples to be brought on board the Persistence for visual and top-side photographs. It was ignored by the project lead (John S.) who felt the Arubans would follow whatever they needed to do as far as proper protocol.

Kyle Kingman: The FBI told me they could not send a representative down to us in Aruba unless they were specifically invited to do so by the Aruban authorities.  They were simply uninvited.

Kyle Kingman:  The FBI said they needed an invitation. I brought it up to Mos and Richardson and they were talking as if it were a possibility along with a Dutch forensic team. Mos said it would take about 10-14 days to have a Dutch forensic team on site.  Never heard another word about it.

Kermit - Scared Monkeys

[Tamikosmom]

Tim's motivation to create the TES organization as a means to assist families of missing persons was based on his personal heartbreaking experiences encompassing lack of resources/support on home soil when it came to searching for his precious daughter.

On the other hand ... Beth's motivation to create her foundation was based on her personal heartbreaking experiences encompassing lack of resources/support in the search on foreign soil for her precious daughter.

One mission should not negate the other.

+++++++++

WATT'S UP WITH THIS? STEPH WATTS & TIM MILLER 9/19/2010

Steph Watts:  Tim let me ask you this... I want to ask you this... a couple of tough questions.  First of all, I’ve always said three people have profited off of Natalee Holloway’s murder; her murderer, the media, and her own mother.  Let me ask you this Tim, What’s the name of Beth Holloway’s organization?

Tim Miller:  I don’t even know.

Steph Watts:  Beth Holloway has an organization in the name of her daughter.

<snipped>

Tim Miller:  If Beth really wants to make a difference and help people...you know we had more people disappear in the United States of America in the last twenty four hours... do you hear this ... twenty four hours, than Aruba has in their entire history.  This was a very isolated incident ... 

Transcript - Texasmom

Audio:
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/watts-up-with-this/2010/09/20/watts-up-with-this#endframe


Beth's Nightmare

Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway

Page 55:  Last night's meeting with the DEA agent would be the last time we would see him. I was told he was just on the island "on vacation," but considering his line of work, I have to wonder about that. Even wonder if the name he gave us was really his. None of that matters. I'm just thankful he was here when he was to help us get the ball rolling by directing us to go to Carlos 'n Charlie's, and helping us with the encounter in the van der Sloot front yard. But now we're alone, politically and law enforcement-wise. Even though we've met Homeland Security and DEA representatives, there‘s nothing they can do for us. There's no U.S. consular office here. No State Department representative. No FBI agent. We're on our own.


Beth Holloway Announces Mayday360
September 29, 2010

Holloway, whose daughter Natalee went missing in Aruba five years ago, has firsthand experience dealing with an international emergency.  "Your initial instinct is how to physically get to that destination," Holloway said. "You reach for the phone to dial 911, but that can't help you. What you need to do is reach local law enforcement, but you don't know who and how?  Mayday360 is the fast, practical answer." 

"In the critical few days after Natalee went missing, I needed immediate access to people with influence and experience to ensure that everything that could be done was happening quickly," said Holloway. "Tragically, I didn't have the help I needed.  That's why I co-founded Mayday 360."

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/beth-holloway-announces-mayday360-104001238.html


Tim's Nightmare

CNN LARRY KING LIVE
Natalee Holloway Still Missing After 31 Days
Aired June 29, 2005 - 21:00   ET

TIM MILLER, DIRECTOR, TEXAS EQUUSEARCH:  You know, I went through the same thing, and it wasn't any better where I was from. They said Laura was a runaway. I did everything I knew how to do, but I was paralyzed at that time. There weren't any search teams. There wasn't any support from law enforcement. 

http://archives.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0506/29/lkl.01.html

[Tamikosmom]

It's been alluded to, but I'll come out and say it outright:

What IF the reason Tim is angry is because the the "documentary" Peter and Beth are working on exposes the Persistence and TES complicity?

A piece of the puzzle?  Is a picture emerging?

++++++

Klye: "I've talked with Peter Shouten numerous times back in February .  He hasn't seen anything but knows about the blue fabrics.  DeVries and Endemol was interested in purchasing the ROV footage and I was working between them, ABC, and CBS to strike a deal. DeVries also wanted to arrange a meeting.

bbl

[Tamikosmom]

Food for Thought

Would Tim jeopardize chance his close relationship with Robin and Dave by despicably bashing Beth?

++++++

WATT'S UP WITH THIS? STEPH WATTS & TIM MILLER 9/19/2010

Tim Miller:  Well they was actually fishing trying to get away and relax a little bit in Louisiana (Falker Louisiana) and I got a call very late last night from Robin and they was afraid Dave had a heart attack.

Transcript - Texasmom

Audio:
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/watts-up-with-this/2010/09/20/watts-up-with-this#endframe


WATT'S UP WITH THIS? STEPH WATTS & TIM MILLER 9/19/2010

Tim Miller:  So again, you know I talked to Robin several times today and uhh Dave has became just a real real close friend of mine, uhhh I regret not meeting Dave Holloway twenty years ago you know and I just love him as a person and for what he’s gone through and I’m there to support him.

Transcript - Texasmom

Audio:
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/watts-up-with-this/2010/09/20/watts-up-with-this#endframe


WATT'S UP WITH THIS? STEPH WATTS & TIM MILLER 9/19/2010

Tim Miller:  Uhhh yeah, and I mean Dave is a very, very strong person, uhhh Dave uhhh certainly has a lot of faith and uhhh is a very God fearing person and uhhh I think the support he gets from uhhh all his friends and supporters and the trust he has in God and stuff is the only thing that’s gotten Dave through it as well as he’s gotten through it and I give him a big pat on the back and an A+.  He’s stayed very very humble through this whole thing...very, very focused and ummm he’s been very, very patient and again he’s...I’m just very, very proud to say that Dave’s my friend and ummm and certainly right now I’ve got concerns about his health.  And again I know everybody...you know keep him in your prayers and uhhh let’s all work together to get through this.

Transcript - Texasmom

Audio:
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/watts-up-with-this/2010/09/20/watts-up-with-this#endframe

(Continued)

WATT'S UP WITH THIS? STEPH WATTS & TIM MILLER 9/19/2010

Tim Miller:  You know what, I was with Dave Holloway ahhh the year that Natalee disappeared I was with Dave Holloway on Natalee’s birthday.  And I’ll never forget, I rented a helicopter that morning because Dave was interested in some abandoned wells that were out in the middle of nowhere.  We rented the helicopter, we flew over and found...and seen them from the air.  And Natalee’s birthday Dave Holloway and I went to a hardware store and Natalee’s birthday present was a good sized metal washtub, a rope, a shovel, and a flashlight.  And on Natalee’s birthday, Dave Holloway was down in the bottom of these wells with that shovel digging stuff because he thought if Natalee was put in one of them and they probably put trash and stuff on top of her.  Shoveling these pans full and I would lift them out, dump them, and drop them back down.  And then I finally just looked at Dave down there and just wanted to cry...still do... and I said Dave get out of there...let me go down.  So I went down there for about an hour doing the digging and Dave was lifting the stuff up... and then Dave said Tim get up out of there... and I’ll never forget this...Dave threw the tub, the flashlight, the shovel, the rope down in the well and he said well you know...he said you know get me to the airport I’ve got to get off this island and I never want to return.  That was the birthday present.  Dave was in that landfill every day for two weeks digging through the trash with us...uhhh Dave went into that area in the Bird Sanctuary (?) actually got in the sea because (?) and stunk so very, very bad.  Got in the sea to go ahead and try to wash off.  We went to the motel, he washed his pants, after he took them out of the washing machine they still stunk so bad that he had to throw them away.  Dave has been out there, on...in the search and out in the mud, in the pit, and has stayed very, very humble and very, very quiet with absolutely not one camera and Dave Holloway will say Thank You to everybody that’s helped.  And I’ve been with Dave Holloway when he’s cried and I’ve been with Dave Holloway when he’s laughed.

Transcript - Texasmom

Audio:
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/watts-up-with-this/2010/09/20/watts-up-with-this#endframe

ins?

[Tamikosmom]

I am not justifying Kyle's silence in regards to the happenings encompassing the trap but ... he had only about a month's crash course from the Natalee's Freebirds regarding the corrupt Aruban investigation that had prevented justice from prevailing for Natalee Holloway.  In other words ... when it came time to do what was right ... Kyle had second thought when it came to risking his entire career by disregarding a confidentiality agreement and exposing the John Silvetti betrayal.

However ... Tim Miller has to be held to a higher degree of accountability than Kyle Kingman when loyalties were compromised in regards to respective betrayals ... in regards to respective ongoing professional relationships with John Silvetti.

At the time ... Tim Miller had over a 2 1/2 years relationship/ connection/ history with Beth and Dave.  He knew where it was at from personal experiences in regards to the nightmare that Aruban authorities had put Natalee's parents through.  Tim had claimed that Natalee's family was his family.  Tim had  claimed that Natalee was like a daughter to him.

Think about it.  Exposing the betrayal would have made Tim a hero.  However ... a line was drawn in the sand 2 1/2 years ago when Tim chose to remained silent regarding what he observed ... when he established a professional relationship with the betrayer ... a relationship which is still ongoing.  In other words ... Tim turned his back on Natalee.  Tim turned his back on Natalee's family.

According to Kyle Kingman ... Natalee's remains may have been in that trap ... I cannot let that go.

IMO
______

I am not blaming Kyle either. I do think he was duped, and I think he realizes it now. And I totally agree that Tim was wrong in these comments. Completely wrong. But I think Dave considers him a friend, and Beth still considers him a friend, so despite me not understanding the dynamics of their relationships, I can forgive him. But it took me a week????????? And I enjoyed reading the thrashings he got, but I know that Beth will be forever indebted to him, because he, like all at this site, were her wings when her feet couldn't carry her. Literally. I don't think you can comprehend how much everyones support helped Beth. And for that, I will owe you for the rest of my life.

private eye

We will have to agree to disagree.  I am a believer in Kyle Kingman's own words regarding the happenings encompassing the trap.  Therefore ... I am believer that Tim Miller ... according to Kyle Kingman's own words ... was aware that the happenings encompassing the trap were not furthering the cause of justice for Natalee or the cause of closure for her family.

I hold both these men accountable for becoming participants in the Aruban cover up that has prevented justice from prevailing for Natalee since May 30, 2005 ... participants through their respective silences which did not happen without professinal benefits.  However ... for the reasons stated ... I do hold Tim Miller accountable to a great degree.

Just clarifying friend.

Janet

[Tamikosmom]

I am somewhat taken back by the words in your post.  It isn't often that we are not on the same page.

We are on the same page, I do not like at all what Tim said, enough so if I had been standing by him I would have probably punched him:), but given the time to reflect, I would rather minimize the bad and accentuate the good. I mean, he has done a lot, I agree something was amiss with the Persistence, but I don't think that was Tim, I realize he has gotten a lot of publicity, but he showed up not knowing for certain, and being a guy I know how easy it is to say something you really don't mean. That's why I am such a chicken about posting:) Beth is a strong enough person to ignore the comments, chalk them up as frayed nerves or misunderstanding, and continue as friends I believe. I am maybe trying to apply the "Good Sam"law where you don't have liability from trying to help?????????????????????? You have such a mastery of the facts of this case, it is intimidating to post, but that is also what I love about you:)

[Tamikosmom]

How can Beth Holloway's actions possibly interfer with a corrupt investigation that has prevented justice from prevailing for 5 1/2 years?  Since when ... according to Tim Miller ... is the FBI and Aruban authorities on the same page ... the same page that implies justice for Natalee Holloway as an outcome?

++++++

Aruban Authorities and FBI on the Same Page?

WATT'S UP WITH THIS? STEPH WATTS & TIM MILLER 9/19/2010

Steph Watts:  So how does she interfere with an ongoing investigation?  She goes over there, confronts him, spooks him, scares him, gets him to tell them the story and now he doesn’t want to talk to you know the people he was talking to before.  He throws his hands up in the air and says all this is off...you guys sprung Beth on me.  That’s how she interferes with an ongoing investigation Tim Miller.  Agree or disagree?

Tim Miller:  I one hundred percent agree... I one hundred percent agree... I .. I think she should have...  Beth needs to understand, Beth is the mother, Beth is not the investigator.  I know for a fact the FBI is working this very, very hard right now, very methodical.  Uhhh they’re working very, very  close with the authorities in Aruba, they are all on the same page and ummm... were mistakes made in the very beginning?  Yes, they were, they were.. o.k. let’s face it.  But you know what everybody’s on the same page now and ummm they could have done absolutely nothing except damage all the work that’s gone into it now.

Transcript - Texasmom

Audio:
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/watts-up-with-this/2010/09/20/watts-up-with-this#endframe

[Tamikosmom]

If I observed the betrayal on board the Persistence ... the betrayal encompassing the trap ... if I remained silent and ... if I established an ongoing professional  relationship with the betrayer ... I would also wish the Natalee Holloway case would just go away.

++++++ 


I Want the Natalee Holloway Case to Go Away!!!

WATT'S UP WITH THIS? STEPH WATTS & TIM MILLER 9/19/2010

Tim Miller:  I’m mad too and you know what Steph, I want the Caylee Anthony and Natalee Holloway cases to go away.  (Talks about Valerie Hamilton case)  But you know what..still...I don’t know why...I don’t know why...Casey Anthony and Beth Holloway are the big stories.  People, you need to get somethin’...Caylee and Natalee are not the only two people that have ever been abducted and murdered.  Those are not the only two people that have suffered.

Transcript - Texasmom

Audio:
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/watts-up-with-this/2010/09/20/watts-up-with-this#endframe

gm

[Tamikosmom]

The Media

WATT'S UP WITH THIS? STEPH WATTS & TIM MILLER 9/19/2010

Tim Miller:  And so for Beth to go over there...it’s one thing if she goes with herself and somebody else (?)  When you’re going over there and you’re taking cameras, now the reports are it’s gonna be about another documentary.  Ummm unfortunately (crosstalk) there is gonna be money involved and stuff and I..I..I..just have to totally disagree with her choice.  Totally disagree.

Transcript - Texasmom

Audio:
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/watts-up-with-this/2010/09/20/watts-up-with-this#endframe


WATT'S UP WITH THIS? STEPH WATTS & TIM MILLER 9/19/2010

Tim Miller:  I would like to say I believe this is in Natalee’s best interest... and I would believe that if she wouldn’t have went over there with film crews and reports are already out it’s about another documentary.  Money’s going to be paid.  I ... I (crosstalk) It is almost like exploiting...and I know I’m going to get criticism over this but it’s only my opinion and uhhh uhhh it’s almost like... I feel like she’s exploiting Natalee’s disappearance and death for financial gain.

Transcript - Texasmom

Audio:
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/watts-up-with-this/2010/09/20/watts-up-with-this#endframe


WATT'S UP WITH THIS? STEPH WATTS & TIM MILLER 9/19/2010

Tim Miller:  ... let’s go back to the map.  Remember when we went to Aruba, we did not let anybody know that we were going uhhh because we went to go ahead and look at that area just to see if by chance maybe this time Joran van der Sloot was telling the truth, and possibly it was Natalee at this spot.  Media found out we was there but you know what Steph, we stayed in a house...they could not find us in any motels.  We did absolutely no media stuff on it uhhh and I think we did it uhhh only for the best interest of Natalee.

Transcript - Texasmom

Audio:
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/watts-up-with-this/2010/09/20/watts-up-with-this#endframe


A Double Standard

Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman:  Dateline (Tim Uelinger) had an agreement with Tim Miller to 'do a story to tell about and help promote TES and give TM recognition, and perhaps a 10 minute side-line story on Natalee along with 11 other missing persons. Dateline tagged along with TM for a while pre-NH search. They (TM and Dateline) came on the Persistence between 15-Dec and 30-Dec.

Kermit - Scared Monkeys

[Tamikosmom]

Is Dave Holloway one with Steph Watts and Tim Miller regarding the bashing of the  mother of his daughter and the upholding the Aruban investigation?

If the established friendship is still ongoing ... I assume the question will be answered?

+++++++

Interference in an Ongoing Investigation

WATT'S UP WITH THIS? STEPH WATTS & TIM MILLER 9/19/2010

Steph Watts:  Tim, beyond what you just said...and people in the chat room are asking me, how could they interfere with an ongoing investigation.  Here’s how.  Beth went over there without even informing her attorney.  There’s Peruvian authorities working on this case, there’s Aruban authorities working on this case, and there’s American authorities working on this case.  People remember, he’s being charged with extortion in this country.  So, how does she interfere with an ongoing investigation?  She has no idea if they’re about to crack him, if they’re working some kind of a deal with Aruba.  If they’re working some kind of a deal...she has no idea because they don’t tell families everything.  So how does she interfere with an ongoing investigation?  She goes over there, confronts him, spooks him, scares him, gets him to tell them the story and now he doesn’t want to talk to you know the people he was talking to before.  He throws his hands up in the air and says all this is off...you guys sprung Beth on me.  That’s how she interferes with an ongoing investigation Tim Miller.  Agree or disagree?

Tim Miller:  I one hundred percent agree... I one hundred percent agree... I .. I think she should have...  Beth needs to understand, Beth is the mother, Beth is not the investigator.  I know for a fact the FBI is working this very, very hard right now, very methodical.  Uhhh they’re working very, very  close with the authorities in Aruba, they are all on the same page and ummm... were mistakes made in the very beginning?  Yes, they were, they were.. o.k. let’s face it.  But you know what everybody’s on the same page now and ummm they could have done absolutely nothing except damage all the work that’s gone into it now.

Transcript - Texasmom

Audio:
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/watts-up-with-this/2010/09/20/watts-up-with-this#endframe

Like Brothers

WATT'S UP WITH THIS? STEPH WATTS & TIM MILLER 9/19/2010

Tim Miller:  I talked to Robin several times today and uhh Dave has became just a real real close friend of mine, uhhh I regret not meeting Dave Holloway twenty years ago you know and I just love him as a person and for what he’s gone through and I’m there to support him.

Steph Watts:  O.K., you guys are like brothers and I remember when all three of us were together in Aruba ...

Audio:
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/watts-up-with-this/2010/09/20/watts-up-with-this#endframe

[Tamikosmom]

Is Dave Holloway one with Steph Watts and Tim Miller regarding the bashing of the  mother of his daughter and the upholding the Aruban investigation?

If the established friendship is still ongoing ... I assume the question will be answered?

+++++++

Interference in an Ongoing Investigation

WATT'S UP WITH THIS? STEPH WATTS & TIM MILLER 9/19/2010

Steph Watts:  Tim, beyond what you just said...and people in the chat room are asking me, how could they interfere with an ongoing investigation.  Here’s how.  Beth went over there without even informing her attorney.  There’s Peruvian authorities working on this case, there’s Aruban authorities working on this case, and there’s American authorities working on this case.  People remember, he’s being charged with extortion in this country.  So, how does she interfere with an ongoing investigation?  She has no idea if they’re about to crack him, if they’re working some kind of a deal with Aruba.  If they’re working some kind of a deal...she has no idea because they don’t tell families everything.  So how does she interfere with an ongoing investigation?  She goes over there, confronts him, spooks him, scares him, gets him to tell them the story and now he doesn’t want to talk to you know the people he was talking to before.  He throws his hands up in the air and says all this is off...you guys sprung Beth on me.  That’s how she interferes with an ongoing investigation Tim Miller.  Agree or disagree?

Tim Miller:  I one hundred percent agree... I one hundred percent agree... I .. I think she should have...  Beth needs to understand, Beth is the mother, Beth is not the investigator.  I know for a fact the FBI is working this very, very hard right now, very methodical.  Uhhh they’re working very, very  close with the authorities in Aruba, they are all on the same page and ummm... were mistakes made in the very beginning?  Yes, they were, they were.. o.k. let’s face it.  But you know what everybody’s on the same page now and ummm they could have done absolutely nothing except damage all the work that’s gone into it now.

Transcript - Texasmom

Audio:
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/watts-up-with-this/2010/09/20/watts-up-with-this#endframe


Like Brothers

WATT'S UP WITH THIS? STEPH WATTS & TIM MILLER 9/19/2010

Tim Miller:  I talked to Robin several times today and uhh Dave has became just a real real close friend of mine, uhhh I regret not meeting Dave Holloway twenty years ago you know and I just love him as a person and for what he’s gone through and I’m there to support him.

Steph Watts:  O.K., you guys are like brothers and I remember when all three of us were together in Aruba ...

Audio:
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/watts-up-with-this/2010/09/20/watts-up-with-this#endframe

[Tamikosmom]

Steph Watts

I’ve always said three people have profited off of Natalee Holloway’s murder; her murderer, the media, and her own mother.

Transcript - Texasmom



WATT'S UP WITH THIS? STEPH WATTS & TIM MILLER 9/19/2010

Steph Watts:  Somehow allegedly they got a camera through...uhhh into the Peruvian jail.  (?) and got an interview with Joran van der Sloot.  Here’s the problem Tim Miller, this is the issue I’m gonna have with that.  That interview is going to be sold.  It’s going to go to the highest bidder (Tim, big sigh)and I understand the intentions of Beth were for her to try to get answers, but then why do it on camera?

Tim Miller:  You know what Steph...I have to agree.  I was hoping that we wouldn’t have to touch on that subject, but you know what I’ve gotten many many other calls and emails on this

Transcript - Texasmom

Audio:
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/watts-up-with-this/2010/09/20/watts-up-with-this#endframe


WATT'S UP WITH THIS? STEPH WATTS & TIM MILLER 9/19/2010

... And so for Beth to go over there...it’s one thing if she goes with herself and somebody else (?)  When you’re going over there and you’re taking cameras, now the reports are it’s gonna be about another documentary.  Ummm unfortunately (crosstalk) there is gonna be money involved and stuff and I..I..I..just have to totally disagree with her choice.  Totally disagree.

Transcript - Texasmom

Audio:
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/watts-up-with-this/2010/09/20/watts-up-with-this#endframe


WATT'S UP WITH THIS? STEPH WATTS & TIM MILLER 9/19/2010

And again I would like to say I believe this is in Natalee’s best interest... and I would believe that if she wouldn’t have went over there with film crews and reports are already out it’s about another documentary.  Money’s going to be paid.  I ... I (crosstalk) It is almost like exploiting...and I know I’m going to get criticism over this but it’s only my opinion and uhhh uhhh it’s almost like... I feel like she’s exploiting Natalee’s disappearance and death for financial gain.

Transcript - Texasmom

Audio:
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/watts-up-with-this/2010/09/20/watts-up-with-this#endframe


WATT'S UP WITH THIS? STEPH WATTS & TIM MILLER 9/19/2010

Steph Watts:  Tim let me ask you this... I want to ask you this... a couple of tough questions.  First of all, I’ve always said three people have profited off of Natalee Holloway’s murder; her murderer, the media, and her own mother.  Let me ask you this Tim, What’s the name of Beth Holloway’s organization?

Tim Miller:  I don’t even know.

Steph Watts:  Beth Holloway has an organization in the name of her daughter

<snipped>

Tim Miller:  If Beth really wants to make a difference and help people...you know we had more people disappear in the United States of America in the last twenty four hours... do you hear this ... twenty four hours, than Aruba has in their entire history.  This was a very isolated incident, I will not boycott Aruba.  The last time we was in Aruba, they was just friendly with us again and... and uhhh my Gd you know what let’s start at home to try to make a change.  Yes my sympathy goes out to Dave and Beth and everybody involved but when you start putting some money in the pockets, uhhh I don’t get it.

Transcript - Texasmom

Audio:
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/watts-up-with-this/2010/09/20/watts-up-with-this#endframe


WATT'S UP WITH THIS? STEPH WATTS & TIM MILLER 9/19/2010

Steph Watts:  Here’s my question, and I want to ask you.  Has Beth Holloway ever donated any money towards Texas Equusearch from her organization which I know for a fact from which I understand made millions and millions of dollars in donations.

Tim Miller:  Can everybody just kind of read between the lines, then let’s go to the next subject.  I can say this.  Beth was supposed to come to one of our fundraisers this year.  She was supposed to come to one earlier in the year and then at the last minute had to back out and that was o.k.  And we had... you know she never travels alone...you know we had two airline tickets ummm that of course we lost.  And she was supposed to come to our other one that we had in April and the day before the Fundraiser she canceled and it was advertised all over that Beth was gonna be here.  And I’ve never forget what Beth said...she said well Tim I didn’t realize I was supposed to speak.  And I said Beth it’s not gonna be your (?) speech that you normally do on the dangers of traveling abroad, they’ve got you penciled in for four minutes just to say you know how much you appreciated Equusearch and what they did you know to try to find your daughter.  And she said well you know I get paid for speaking and it was like alright...so anyhow she wasn’t there uhh at that fundraiser so anyhow and you know I wish we wouldn’t of touched on that subject but the truth is the truth.

Transcript - Texasmom

Audio:
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/watts-up-with-this/2010/09/20/watts-up-with-this#endframe