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Author Topic: Haleigh Cummings #5 3/08/09 - 3/11/09  (Read 298223 times)
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islandmonkey
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HaLeigh~you are loved and in God's loving arms


« Reply #1540 on: March 11, 2009, 12:17:14 PM »

O/T - Islandmonkey, when you come back here...can I come and move in with you by the beach?  White out conditions here. 

sure~it's pretty white here too, but in the form of sand and, it'snice and warm with gentle breezes all year long, when can I look for you to arrive
As soon as I can see more than 10 feet in front of me right now.  Your view is so much nicer.
There is a street behind that tree some where Just took this.

Ahhh, the Great White North.


  So sorry~we've been swimming for a week now where on earth do you live (State) where it's still snowing???




By the way, what were your impressions of the presser yesterday? Pretty somber IMO, and to watch Crystal shaking and crying made me start up myself I was just curious because it seemed so different from any of the other pressers so far.
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faith1109
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« Reply #1541 on: March 11, 2009, 12:17:43 PM »

Faith I can imagine your feelings over this, but you certainly did the right thing. It is good to know that LE is taking sightings seriously, with no time wasted at all . Take care.

No Rose,

Thank you.  Yes I was quite surprised how quickly it all went down.  I am also reassured that the little girl was checked up on.  I'm not saying that what I witnessed was any more than a dad's irritation but when it comes to children's welfare you can't be too careful.  I forgot to mention the FBI agent was very thankful that I called and said how much they all appreciated everyone's help in searching for missing children.  I thought there might be a bit of the attitude that I had wasted their time, but it was quite the opposite.  It also helped that so many others thought this little girl was a dead ringer for Haleigh on the surveillance tape. 
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Sieko
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« Reply #1542 on: March 11, 2009, 12:18:38 PM »

Good morning monkeys.  I know I have not posted here much lately.  Been busy with work and life though I do read here daily on my phone which is not conducive to posting. 

About two weeks ago on a Sunday morning I went to our local Wal Mart in Oklahoma and thought I saw Haleigh.  The store was pretty empty because the majority are in church Sunday morning in this town so only a few other shoppers were there besides me.  I was on an aisle by myself when a man briskly turned and walked past me.  I got a very uneasy feeling from him and felt anger or negativity in his manner.  As silly as it sounds I was scared and wanted as far away from him as possible.  As I turned the corner he began yelling a little girl's name (which I won't mention to protect her, but he did not use the name Haleigh).  A girl who could be Haleigh's twin ran breathlessly from another aisle with a look of fear on her face and was confused about which aisle he was calling her from.  She faced me and I did something so stupid.  I pointed to the direction of the man and said he's over there honey.  I was scared for her and didn't want her to get in trouble because his calls for her were becoming louder and more irritated.  The fact that he called her by a name other than Haleigh assured me for a few hours it wasn't her.

Needless to say the encounter haunted me and I could not get it out of my head it could have been her.  Yet I did not want to falsely report a sighting and use valuable resources on a dead end or get an innocent person in trouble.  I decided to call the store's surveillance department and see if they could pull the video up of the little girl.  I had saved my receipt so I had an exact time I was in the store and with that and the description of the pair I hoped they could find it.  The surveillance person called me back within 20 minutes and agreed the little girl on the video looked like Haleigh.  She got my information and a few minutes later I got a call from the store's manager.  He had reviewed the tape as well and felt there was signifigant reason to notify the authorities.

I was first interviewed by our local P.D. who contacted the FBI and they reviewed the surveillance tapes as well.  They were convinced enough by the girl's appearance to track down the man from his store receipt/purchase and located his residence.  The FBI did a home visit and questioned the man and the little girl at length.  The agent who called me said although a very close match the little girl was not Haleigh.

So after this harrowing experience I wanted to say that Law Enforcement and the FBI are doing everything they can to find Haleigh based on their reaction to this sighting.  I really wrestled with guilt that I may have caused an innocent man to be questioned.  But I know I could not live with myself if I had not done something.  In retrospect I wish I would have crouched down to the girl's level and quietly spoken with her for a few minutes to make sure she was safe and not in need of help.  I always believed I would do the appropriate thing in this situation but sadly in the emotion of the moment I did not.


Wow faith, i'm glad you followed up on it.  You just never know.  It's good to hear the leads are being taken very seriously.
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Wyks
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« Reply #1543 on: March 11, 2009, 12:19:30 PM »

OK, supposedly cousin Joe borrowed the van from Misty's SIL. 

#1. How did Joe get from TN to FL.....did he not have a vehicle to travel in??

#2. What then was the reason for using the SIL'S van??

#3.  What time did he borrow the van, and what time was it returned??

#4. Was he alone when he borrowed the van, or was someone else with him??

#5.  If someone else travelled with him from TN, where did this person go when Joe took the van, if this person stayed behind??

#6. What was the explanation for the damage to the van??

#7.  Of course, I am still on the blanket topic.

Maybe some of these have already been answered, but these are just things that are questionable.

Good morning everyone!   

Great questions, Grama!  On the van, I've heard it reported in the media two different ways.    

One, the van that cousin Joe was using, he borrowed from Misty's brother Tommy.  And that when Joe returned the van, it had a dent in the side. 

Two, the van that cousin Joe was using, was his own van that he drove from Tennessee.  And that it had a dent in the side. 

Hard to know which to believe, since here's another thing with inconsistent reports.  Cannot remember if I heard both these reports on the news channels, in written reports, or one of each.  Have you or anyone else heard/read both reports? 

Am wondering if Joe did borrow the van from Tommy, and then the supposed fight between Ron and Joe occured, perhaps causing the dent in the van.  We haven't heard them say much if anything about the supposed fight, (except Ron denies it happened, and his mom said it did happen).   ::MonkeyConfused   And we haven't heard much about the van/dent and Joe.  So perhaps all this is related in some way, that not so many want to talk about?   And if so, why? 

So much silence on different things in this case, just makes it seem to be more of a big deal than it very likely is. 
 
 
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« Reply #1544 on: March 11, 2009, 12:20:20 PM »

Faith I can imagine your feelings over this, but you certainly did the right thing. It is good to know that LE is taking sightings seriously, with no time wasted at all . Take care.

No Rose,

Thank you.  Yes I was quite surprised how quickly it all went down.  I am also reassured that the little girl was checked up on.  I'm not saying that what I witnessed was any more than a dad's irritation but when it comes to children's welfare you can't be too careful.  I forgot to mention the FBI agent was very thankful that I called and said how much they all appreciated everyone's help in searching for missing children.  I thought there might be a bit of the attitude that I had wasted their time, but it was quite the opposite.  It also helped that so many others thought this little girl was a dead ringer for Haleigh on the surveillance tape. 
Wow, with Caylee, I felt many little girls resembled her, but with Haleigh not so much.
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faith1109
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« Reply #1545 on: March 11, 2009, 12:24:16 PM »

Alagary,
Wow that is amazing.  Kidnappers need to beware of mommies watching them!

 
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« Reply #1546 on: March 11, 2009, 12:25:55 PM »

That's the problem, maybe the van and who borrowed it or who didn't borrow means nothing, I'm sure LE has checked all of this. Regarding cousin Joe, I feel this is a red herring. I really hope this doesn't go in the direction of the two Oklahoma girls who were shot, it appears there is nothing on that. I always look to see, but that case has gone cold. And little Adji, and so many others, that there is no resolution.
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Sieko
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« Reply #1547 on: March 11, 2009, 12:27:52 PM »

O/T - Islandmonkey, when you come back here...can I come and move in with you by the beach?  White out conditions here. 

sure~it's pretty white here too, but in the form of sand and, it'snice and warm with gentle breezes all year long, when can I look for you to arrive
As soon as I can see more than 10 feet in front of me right now.  Your view is so much nicer.
There is a street behind that tree some where Just took this.

Ahhh, the Great White North.


  So sorry~we've been swimming for a week now where on earth do you live (State) where it's still snowing???




By the way, what were your impressions of the presser yesterday? Pretty somber IMO, and to watch Crystal shaking and crying made me start up myself I was just curious because it seemed so different from any of the other pressers so far.
Eh? 
The presser yesterday...Crystal had me crying too.  It was hard to read Ron with those sunglasses on.  I think I got a totally different view of him not being able to see his eyes.  It was disappointing hearing the Sheriff asking for that one lead.  I'm sure we would all rather hear that they do have that one lead. 
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Wyks
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« Reply #1548 on: March 11, 2009, 12:30:48 PM »

Good morning monkeys.  I know I have not posted here much lately.  Been busy with work and life though I do read here daily on my phone which is not conducive to posting. 

About two weeks ago on a Sunday morning I went to our local Wal Mart in Oklahoma and thought I saw Haleigh.  The store was pretty empty because the majority are in church Sunday morning in this town so only a few other shoppers were there besides me.  I was on an aisle by myself when a man briskly turned and walked past me.  I got a very uneasy feeling from him and felt anger or negativity in his manner.  As silly as it sounds I was scared and wanted as far away from him as possible.  As I turned the corner he began yelling a little girl's name (which I won't mention to protect her, but he did not use the name Haleigh).  A girl who could be Haleigh's twin ran breathlessly from another aisle with a look of fear on her face and was confused about which aisle he was calling her from.  She faced me and I did something so stupid.  I pointed to the direction of the man and said he's over there honey.  I was scared for her and didn't want her to get in trouble because his calls for her were becoming louder and more irritated.  The fact that he called her by a name other than Haleigh assured me for a few hours it wasn't her.

Needless to say the encounter haunted me and I could not get it out of my head it could have been her.  Yet I did not want to falsely report a sighting and use valuable resources on a dead end or get an innocent person in trouble.  I decided to call the store's surveillance department and see if they could pull the video up of the little girl.  I had saved my receipt so I had an exact time I was in the store and with that and the description of the pair I hoped they could find it.  The surveillance person called me back within 20 minutes and agreed the little girl on the video looked like Haleigh.  She got my information and a few minutes later I got a call from the store's manager.  He had reviewed the tape as well and felt there was signifigant reason to notify the authorities.

I was first interviewed by our local P.D. who contacted the FBI and they reviewed the surveillance tapes as well.  They were convinced enough by the girl's appearance to track down the man from his store receipt/purchase and located his residence.  The FBI did a home visit and questioned the man and the little girl at length.  The agent who called me said although a very close match the little girl was not Haleigh.

So after this harrowing experience I wanted to say that Law Enforcement and the FBI are doing everything they can to find Haleigh based on their reaction to this sighting.  I really wrestled with guilt that I may have caused an innocent man to be questioned.  But I know I could not live with myself if I had not done something.  In retrospect I wish I would have crouched down to the girl's level and quietly spoken with her for a few minutes to make sure she was safe and not in need of help.  I always believed I would do the appropriate thing in this situation but sadly in the emotion of the moment I did not.



Wow faith!  Thank you for acting on your instincts, IMO this is how missing children can be found more easily.  The girl must have looked enough like Haleigh cuz other folks thought so as well.  One reason for Amber Alerts is so that folks will keep their eyes open and report anything that might help.  And that's what you did!  So I do hope you won't continue to feel guilty for it.  The saddest thing would have been had that little girl actually been Haleigh but no one reported it cuz they were unsure.  Thank you for stepping up and doing what felt right to you! 
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fatcatlurker
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« Reply #1549 on: March 11, 2009, 12:32:34 PM »

Faith I can imagine your feelings over this, but you certainly did the right thing. It is good to know that LE is taking sightings seriously, with no time wasted at all . Take care.

No Rose,

Thank you.  Yes I was quite surprised how quickly it all went down.  I am also reassured that the little girl was checked up on.  I'm not saying that what I witnessed was any more than a dad's irritation but when it comes to children's welfare you can't be too careful.  I forgot to mention the FBI agent was very thankful that I called and said how much they all appreciated everyone's help in searching for missing children.  I thought there might be a bit of the attitude that I had wasted their time, but it was quite the opposite.  It also helped that so many others thought this little girl was a dead ringer for Haleigh on the surveillance tape. 

You did a good job trusting your instincts!  In these types of cases the village to raise the child apply more than ever I think.  When I was in my early 20's and going to college I worked nights at a dash in store and witnessed a woman climb in a back seat and smack than back hand a toddler.  I could not believe what my eyes had just seen.  I told my super that she better lock the door when that woman came in and we did, we locked her in until the police came while someone else kept an eye on the screaming toddler.  When the police came I had to give my story and I said I did not believe my eyes, the trooper walked me out to the car to show me the cut on the poor babies face from that b!tches rings  for me to believe.  So always trust your instincts they are usually right on when you personally see it and if it turns out innocent no harm done.
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« Reply #1550 on: March 11, 2009, 12:33:28 PM »

Faith I can imagine your feelings over this, but you certainly did the right thing. It is good to know that LE is taking sightings seriously, with no time wasted at all . Take care.

Faith, a clap of the hands to you for what you did.  Even though it turned out not to be Haleigh, it very well could have been another abducted child, and by bringing this to the open would have been a way to solve another case.

This is the problem now a days, no one wants to be involved...speaking out, noticing different actions by others that become strange and reporting them. 
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islandmonkey
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« Reply #1551 on: March 11, 2009, 12:39:02 PM »

Good Morning all....

I was gonna say this yesterday but just decided to keep my mouth shut. After-all, we have the best Admin and Mods anywhere. And this is certainly not to suggest that anyone is not doing the volunteer related job.

After reading here the last few days I just can't believe some of what I have been reading. Yanno, I have been here since day one, and I have seen it all. And by ALL - I mean just about everything you can think of.

The reason SM is different and the best is because of the civil conversation that takes place and the fact that SM has the most astute posters on the net. Now, I know we always have a lot of new members. Who wouldn't want to post along side of US? 

Recently I have seen some posts that I would say are completely off the deep end. I'm not naming names but maybe we should all use the good head the Good Lord gave us.

Since when have "family members" been able to influence "your" thinking? And I ask that in the most humble manor. When someone sends a cadre of "family members" to post on boards - that should be a huge red flag that "that" family member needs some type of "electronic" support and that makes me then wonder - WHY.

I try to take out the supposition and out-right lies when I formulate my opinions. I am on this board cause I DO have opinions. Will those opinions "solve" the case - doubtful - very very doubtful. We all have opinions and that's why we're all here.

Some of the attacks, pseudo innuendo, and what I would call blatant rumor mongering are just wrong. I know that and so do you. And trust me - this is not to TELL anyone how to post but to possibly give you all some advice (should you choose to accept it) that some of the stuff posted about Ron and Misty are just not right. How are you gonna feel when the next Couey emerges? Will you be the first to send a letter to Ron and Misty saying that you wrote some stuff on SM that wasn't particularly nice?

I'm not a fan of anyone choosing to get married when a child is missing. After-all that missing child will not be part of the joy and love that a wedding is supposed to create. I'm not happy when a parent takes hours to get a tattoo while a child is missing. I don't think it demonstrates the character I look for in my personal associates nor my friends. I try to circle myself with loving, caring and compassionate people. We can not all be so fortunate. 

To date - tell me, what evidence is there that Ron or Misty have harmed Haleigh? I know there are lots of rumors. Believe  me I KNOW. I'm not missing those rumors. I see them as you do. Now everything could change and Misty may not be telling the truth. But to date, there is nothing to charge her with. There is nothing to charge Ron with. And
Haleigh is still missing. I'm not saying that there will not be future evidence to emerge - we just don't know. All I am is saying is try to be a little bit kinder to someone missing their child and maybe not jump to conclusions regarding clothes, tattoos, and wedding proposals. Remember that not everyone lives the same life that you do. Remember that not everyone has had it easy. Some people are doing the best they can and it may not fit your mold for a lifestyle, an over-all plan for how to live life in harmony and it may not fit your general idea how to raise a child. Not everyone is perfect and not everyone could have harmed Haleigh.

Ok.. just my opinion... everyone have a nice day... and I'll be thinking of all of you.

Well, thanks for the advice........but LE has stated very clearly that DCF has been involved in the Cumming's home envireoment in the lst yr., Ron can state the "proper ways to discipline his child per DCF regulations" verbatim, it doesn't take much of a jump to figure out he's been advised on how he can and can't discipline his child, is it that hard to imagine that he may have actually dsiciplined her too harsh in the past~not for me.

AS for letting family members "influence" our views, I have spoke to some and ONLY to offer my support, they didn't trash the other side, they merely want to get ONE consisitent story from the last person to have seen Haleigh, and I would do just the same thing and be just as frustrated by the never ending inconsistencies. The simple fact it we have none except that Haleigh is missing and NOT ONE person has been cleared yet.

I have not, nor will I ever judge someone because of socioeconomic factors, I NEVER thought Mark Lunsford was guilty, but it's the simple fact that their actions are incongruent from their statements that brings the scrutiny upon them. If my child was missing, I'd welcome the scrutiny, I couldn't care less if they found out that once in my teens I smoked a joint, so I question someone who is so defensive about their past being brought forward, Crystal hasn't been~she flat out laid it all out there on nat'l tv (yes, I did drugs) .

I have also followed what the FBI profilers are saying in this case (since none of us here are experts), and will continue to look to their words for guidance in this case. I also think everyone is speculating and theorizing due to no facts being out there as in the prior cases, if you see it as rumor mongering I guess that is just a simple difference of opinion, and we are all entitled to our own and really believe we are "using the head our God gave us".............thanks for your concern though.
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« Reply #1552 on: March 11, 2009, 12:40:57 PM »

Faith , I found it on John Walshs site . Be glad of what you did . sorry for the o/t
http://www.amw.com/fugitives/case.cfm?id=37226
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« Reply #1553 on: March 11, 2009, 12:42:10 PM »

Faith I can imagine your feelings over this, but you certainly did the right thing. It is good to know that LE is taking sightings seriously, with no time wasted at all . Take care.

Faith, a clap of the hands to you for what you did.  Even though it turned out not to be Haleigh, it very well could have been another abducted child, and by bringing this to the open would have been a way to solve another case.

This is the problem now a days, no one wants to be involved...speaking out, noticing different actions by others that become strange and reporting them. 

Sieko, GramaMonkey, Fatcatlurker, Wyks, Alagary,

Thank you all very much for being so supportive.  I actually feel much better about it now.  Fatcatlurker, now what you did was brave!  That took guts.  To face the woman, lock her in the store, I can't imagine.  But thank God for you.  I bet that baby's life would have turned out very differently if it weren't for your protection.  You monkeys make me feel so thankful to post here!   
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islandmonkey
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« Reply #1554 on: March 11, 2009, 12:44:45 PM »

O/T - Islandmonkey, when you come back here...can I come and move in with you by the beach?  White out conditions here. 

sure~it's pretty white here too, but in the form of sand and, it'snice and warm with gentle breezes all year long, when can I look for you to arrive
As soon as I can see more than 10 feet in front of me right now.  Your view is so much nicer.
There is a street behind that tree some where Just took this.

Ahhh, the Great White North.


  So sorry~we've been swimming for a week now where on earth do you live (State) where it's still snowing???




By the way, what were your impressions of the presser yesterday? Pretty somber IMO, and to watch Crystal shaking and crying made me start up myself I was just curious because it seemed so different from any of the other pressers so far.
Eh? 
The presser yesterday...Crystal had me crying too.  It was hard to read Ron with those sunglasses on.  I think I got a totally different view of him not being able to see his eyes.  It was disappointing hearing the Sheriff asking for that one lead.  I'm sure we would all rather hear that they do have that one lead. 

I gotcha~my neighbor back in TN was from there and my kids picked up the eh also .

The presser really bothered me, it was almost like they were begging for leads, and that really bothers me on so many levels
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« Reply #1555 on: March 11, 2009, 12:45:54 PM »

Faith , I found it on John Walshs site . Be glad of what you did . sorry for the o/t
http://www.amw.com/fugitives/case.cfm?id=37226

Traci Dean deserves an award in my opinion.  That is an incredible story.  Thanks for the link!
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« Reply #1556 on: March 11, 2009, 12:54:15 PM »

This is why I'm confused, I'm not sure what we are supposed to talk about on this forum. We don't have a lot of facts, and we discuss rumors, is that right or wrong, I don't know. I've been reading things from locals and relatives, I don't know if they are being truthful or not. Either family's history is stellar when it comes to their brushes with the law, that one can plainly see. What I don't get is with the Caylee case, the family and friends have been put through a shredder so is that right? But discussing how one player or another in this case gives you warning and disturbes you with their actions, you have to be careful what you say. I have no idea what happened to Haleigh, I have my thoughts on it, but I don't want to be accused of bashing a family member. Hopefully there will be more info/leads so this can come to a resolution, a good one of course, but I have my doubts on that.
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« Reply #1557 on: March 11, 2009, 12:58:57 PM »

OK, supposedly cousin Joe borrowed the van from Misty's SIL. 

#1. How did Joe get from TN to FL.....did he not have a vehicle to travel in??

#2. What then was the reason for using the SIL'S van??

#3.  What time did he borrow the van, and what time was it returned??

#4. Was he alone when he borrowed the van, or was someone else with him??

#5.  If someone else travelled with him from TN, where did this person go when Joe took the van, if this person stayed behind??

#6. What was the explanation for the damage to the van??

#7.  Of course, I am still on the blanket topic.

Maybe some of these have already been answered, but these are just things that are questionable.

Good morning everyone!   

Great questions, Grama!  On the van, I've heard it reported in the media two different ways.    

One, the van that cousin Joe was using, he borrowed from Misty's brother Tommy.  And that when Joe returned the van, it had a dent in the side. 

Two, the van that cousin Joe was using, was his own van that he drove from Tennessee.  And that it had a dent in the side. 

Hard to know which to believe, since here's another thing with inconsistent reports.  Cannot remember if I heard both these reports on the news channels, in written reports, or one of each.  Have you or anyone else heard/read both reports? 

Am wondering if Joe did borrow the van from Tommy, and then the supposed fight between Ron and Joe occured, perhaps causing the dent in the van.  We haven't heard them say much if anything about the supposed fight, (except Ron denies it happened, and his mom said it did happen).   ::MonkeyConfused   And we haven't heard much about the van/dent and Joe.  So perhaps all this is related in some way, that not so many want to talk about?   And if so, why?  So much silence on different things in this case, just makes it seem to be more of a big deal than it very likely is. 
 

I myself try to read up on the current posted / news articles and not much has been said about this particular van.  But...the blanket in the van keeps eating away at me, plus the fact that Misty was washing one.  Did they take both Haliegh and Ron Jr. along with TWO blankets to the van???  and that is why the second one had to be washed??

Silence....WHY???  With the number of LE / FBI being represented yesterday at the presser, I am sure they have the same questions and possibly have some of these answered already.  Notice THEY DID NOT DIRECTLY involve details about what they have been investigating.  Only...looking for that one clue.  Well, maybe someone is on surveillance and they are waiting for them to make a false move. 

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« Reply #1558 on: March 11, 2009, 01:02:07 PM »

This is why I'm confused, I'm not sure what we are supposed to talk about on this forum. We don't have a lot of facts, and we discuss rumors, is that right or wrong, I don't know. I've been reading things from locals and relatives, I don't know if they are being truthful or not. Either family's history is stellar when it comes to their brushes with the law, that one can plainly see. What I don't get is with the Caylee case, the family and friends have been put through a shredder so is that right? But discussing how one player or another in this case gives you warning and disturbes you with their actions, you have to be careful what you say. I have no idea what happened to Haleigh, I have my thoughts on it, but I don't want to be accused of bashing a family member. Hopefully there will be more info/leads so this can come to a resolution, a good one of course, but I have my doubts on that.

I'm glad I wasn't the only one who noticed this............I always thought that's what this forum was for, to toss around ideas, theorize on what may have happened etc. And you are spot on about the Caylee case and everyone put through the ringer......I don't feel I need to be lectured too as how to "use the brain God gave me" or warned if you KWIM The other time the post was even more harsh, not sure if you remember that one, but I was taken aback by the tone of it and put off as well.

NRCG   I need to send you a nanner, if you are ok with that, my addy is pcolabeachmom@yahoo.com

Thanks,

IM
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"If two theories explain the facts equally well then the simpler theory is to be preferred''
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fatcatlurker
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« Reply #1559 on: March 11, 2009, 01:07:11 PM »

Faith I can imagine your feelings over this, but you certainly did the right thing. It is good to know that LE is taking sightings seriously, with no time wasted at all . Take care.

Faith, a clap of the hands to you for what you did.  Even though it turned out not to be Haleigh, it very well could have been another abducted child, and by bringing this to the open would have been a way to solve another case.

This is the problem now a days, no one wants to be involved...speaking out, noticing different actions by others that become strange and reporting them. 

Sieko, GramaMonkey, Fatcatlurker, Wyks, Alagary,

Thank you all very much for being so supportive.  I actually feel much better about it now.  Fatcatlurker, now what you did was brave!  That took guts.  To face the woman, lock her in the store, I can't imagine.  But thank God for you.  I bet that baby's life would have turned out very differently if it weren't for your protection.  You monkeys make me feel so thankful to post here!  

All of our actions count for every act of abuse we see if it's not what we think than no foul done.  When they cuffed her and took the baby right there I was even happier.  But I'm telling you I was shaking and upset and couldn't believe what my eyes had seen until I saw the cuts on that little face.  Like my eyes saw it, but the brain did not comprehend the action.  So trust the gut!!
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