Haleigh Cummings #5 3/08/09 - 3/11/09

[FIREYONE]

I don't recall reading any of this comment by AnnaFl here.

Originally Posted by Anna Fl  - WS
Hi all. I believe strongly that law enforcement DOES have "a clue" but are waiting for the right time/events before moving forward publicly.

Also, things are tense and there is virtually no communication between the families. Ron is keeping everyone as far away as possible except for the media and others he *chooses* to speak to; he has refused to speak to several people including certain media and three psychics who asked for access to the house. Crystal has also asked to see inside the house in the hope she might notice something that was overlooked but Ronnie won't let her near the house. He has offered access to the house but only to certain people and only for a fee.
As far as the marriage and people around the area talking about it...I think the general feeling is disgust.

Do we remember the day helicopters were flying over head there and something was happening.. something big going down??   yet when asked what was going on she replied.."oh, I am an hour away"   

I am not believing anything she says...

Today she posted that Ron would only give tours of the trailer for money.  I am so sick of all of the rumors these "local" folks are spewing that I called the funeral home.  Long story short it's not true.  It's not true that people down there are disgusted at Ron maybe some however most people are understanding.  They just don't understand where all of this hate for Ron is coming from.

[islandmonkey]

I have no idea if AnnaFl has an agenda or not, but she is saying Ron no longer works at the company that he was employed at. I'm sure if that is true or not, some smart monkey will track that down.

D@mn, I could have asked Marie......I just got off the phone with her, she's at some Justice Coalition meeting and supposedly they are going to donate $8, 940.00 to help raise the reward to $35,000.00.

She did tell me Anna Fl is busy tracking down the RSO Daniel possible connection, and remember he has a boat............jus saying

[cookie]

I have no idea if AnnaFl has an agenda or not, but she is saying Ron no longer works at the company that he was employed at. I'm sure if that is true or not, some smart monkey will track that down.

Who is AnnaFL and what does WS stand for?  Thanks to anyone who responds.

AnnaFl is a relative that posts here and WS, Websleuths, a forum that is similar to this one. I don't know if she posts on anyother forums.

Who is she a relative of Ron's?

Minnie...it is complicated....we don't know if she is really related to either side...but supposedly she is a distant relative according to Marie (the bio grandmother of Haleigh) and a close relative according to AnnaFL to Crystals side of the family...but then I read that she was related to Ron, but then that was supposedly posted incorrectly by another relative or someone who says that they know the family......think I got that right...it is very confusing....

[Sieko]

She heard yelling, not screaming...sorry.

That could have also been when she was on the phone after she discoverd Haleigh gone.  On the phone call both Ron and Misty were screaming.

good point Minnie..could very well be...

But wouldnt that have been after 3 am she said she woke up and it was 3 am

Yes, if everyone had their times right.  It just makes more sense to me.  I don't think she would hear screaming and then an 1/2 hour later not hear the screaming on the phone call.  I just threw that out there for consideration.

This is one quick statement from a reporter, so I have no idea how credible it is.  LE will know if it's credible or not, I'm sure.

[Sieko]

She heard yelling, not screaming...sorry.

That could have also been when she was on the phone after she discoverd Haleigh gone.  On the phone call both Ron and Misty were screaming.

good point Minnie..could very well be...

But wouldnt that have been after 3 am she said she woke up and it was 3 am

Yes, if everyone had their times right.  It just makes more sense to me.  I don't think she would hear screaming and then an 1/2 hour later not hear the screaming on the phone call.  I just threw that out there for consideration.

This is one quick statement from a reporter, so I have no idea how credible it is.  LE will know if it's credible or not, I'm sure.

...and there was never a statement claiming she did or didn't also hear screaming at 3.  I wish LE would give out some details.

[cookie]

I don't recall reading any of this comment by AnnaFl here.

Originally Posted by Anna Fl  - WS
Hi all. I believe strongly that law enforcement DOES have "a clue" but are waiting for the right time/events before moving forward publicly.

Also, things are tense and there is virtually no communication between the families. Ron is keeping everyone as far away as possible except for the media and others he *chooses* to speak to; he has refused to speak to several people including certain media and three psychics who asked for access to the house. Crystal has also asked to see inside the house in the hope she might notice something that was overlooked but Ronnie won't let her near the house. He has offered access to the house but only to certain people and only for a fee.
As far as the marriage and people around the area talking about it...I think the general feeling is disgust.

Do we remember the day helicopters were flying over head there and something was happening.. something big going down??   yet when asked what was going on she replied.."oh, I am an hour away"   

I am not believing anything she says...

Today she posted that Ron would only give tours of the trailer for money.  I am so sick of all of the rumors these "local" folks are spewing that I called the funeral home.  Long story short it's not true.  It's not true that people down there are disgusted at Ron maybe some however most people are understanding.  They just don't understand where all of this hate for Ron is coming from.

thank you for presenting another side to some of the "locals" tall tales...thanks for making the call too...

[Brandi]

She heard yelling, not screaming...sorry.

That could have also been when she was on the phone after she discoverd Haleigh gone.  On the phone call both Ron and Misty were screaming.

The neighbor reported hearing the noises at 2:20 AM though.

Quoting myself here because I don't think anyone has seen this.

 

[fatcatlurker]

The thing that I don't understand is if you passed the poly then would you be cleared as a suspect, or doesn't it work like that. 

All I saw was they were satisfied, and IMO that could mean anything (and not all of them are good  ) To me, there is a huge jump from satisfied and passed............JMO

That's my question is satisfied and passed two different things, it seems it is. But I'm really not familiar with polys and what LE says about them. But I would think, maybe I'm wrong, that LE would come out and say Ron and Misty have passed the polys, if they have.

Without bringing a whole bunch of crap over here in regards to poly's I will say my understanding is that all poly's are voluntary and simply used as a tool in a criminal investigation.    Here's a little stuff on it w/out trying to right a book.

The thing that I don't understand is if you passed the poly then would you be cleared as a suspect, or doesn't it work like that. 

This is from me FCL
My understanding is that it is simply a tool in criminal cases....that said than you have to look at each state's laws for allowances on Poly's.  Example: My state - Maryland it is illegal to poly someone for pre-employment or current employment theft value(unless employer is the FED gov't)  Other states have different laws and as noted above the Federal Gov't has there own set of rules governing poly's as well as state officials.  I know most counties in md the police recruits have to pass poly before hiring.  So having said all that from what I know;  all poly's are voluntary is the most important issue and may be used against you depending on jurisdiction of laws applied.


This is from website link at bottom of post;

Current Usage

Polygraph testing is currently being used in more than 50 countries in the fields of corrections, criminal investigations, intelligence/counter intelligence and civil matters. In the United States alone all federal law enforcement agencies either employ their own polygraph examiners or use the services of examiners employed in other agencies. Examiners and quality control programs exist in the FBI, US. Secret Service, US Army CID, US Marine Corps CID, Air Force OSI, Navy NCIS, US Customs, US Marshals, Defence Criminal Investigation Service, Internal Revenue Service, US Capitol Police, Food & Drug Administration, Department of Energy, Central Intelligence Agency, Police & County Sheriff’s departments, sex therapists and numerous other investigative bodies.

Law enforcement agencies using the polygraph do so predicated on the basis that it is an important investigative aid, but not a substitute for standard investigative techniques. For decades the law enforcement community has used polygraph testing as an investigative aid to: verify the statements of victims; establish the credibility of witnesses; evaluate the truthfulness of suspects and to help exonerate the innocent who is surrounded by circumstantial or uncorroborated evidence. During 1996, the US Department of Defence conducted over 12,000 polygraph examinations. In recent years the US Department of Defence has used the polygraph in 95% of criminal investigations pertaining to crimes for which the maximum penalty is 15 years or more. Such use accounted for the army solving 64.7% of felony cases compared with the national average of 19.5%

Legal Aspects

The polygraph examination is, and can only be, a voluntary process. Major technical and computerised advances in technology have been made in the field of polygraphy in the last decade. The development of Zone of Comparison Testing (ZCT) formats, control questions, and validated testing procedures together with ongoing training and research into the validity and reliability of such testing has continued to enhance the utility of the science. This has led to the admission of polygraph results into evidence in all Federal Circuit Courts in the USA, and into 36 of the 50 US States on a stipulated bases (where defence and prosecuting attorneys agree to its admission). In 1989, the US Eleventh Circuit Court of Appeals stated "…based on what it considers to be significant progress in the field of polygraphy in recent years, …it now takes the position that such evidence is generally accepted in the scientific community."

Supporting the legal use of the polygraph in criminal investigations, legal author and expert on the common law, Wigmore (1970), noted three probative uses of the polygraph with respect to criminal investigation, namely:

The ******* may use it as a clue to obtaining external data which can otherwise be used in evidence;
The disclosure of the lie may impress the subject with the apparent futility of trying to conceal the facts, and may thus lead to a voluntary confession before trail; and
The recorded curves may reveal a general emotional consciousness of guilt… and can serve to guide police investigators in their hypotheses.

The United States Supreme Court has held that a Miranda warning before a polygraph examination is sufficient to allow admissibility of a confession that follows an examination. In most courts in the United States that admit polygraph evidence under stipulation the trier of fact has to weigh up the probative value of the matter against the prejudicial effect upon the defendant.

Current usage within criminal & private investigations.

Polygraph usage has proven successful in:

Eliminating suspects
Recognising false complaints
Testing informants to determine the veracity of information provided
Providing a new "key" to an investigation when all other standard investigative techniques have been exhausted
Narrowing the focus of enquiry
Gathering additional information and evidence
Assisting to focus the investigation on particular suspects

from;http://www.nettrace.com.au/content/nta10001.htm

I could probably grab 100 links on poly's...but is to my understanding simply a tool in criminal investigations.

[minnie]

I have no idea if AnnaFl has an agenda or not, but she is saying Ron no longer works at the company that he was employed at. I'm sure if that is true or not, some smart monkey will track that down.

Who is AnnaFL and what does WS stand for?  Thanks to anyone who responds.

AnnaFl is a relative that posts here and WS, Websleuths, a forum that is similar to this one. I don't know if she posts on anyother forums.

Who is she a relative of Ron's?

Minnie...it is complicated....we don't know if she is really related to either side...but supposedly she is a distant relative according to Marie (the bio grandmother of Haleigh) and a close relative according to AnnaFL to Crystals side of the family...but then I read that she was related to Ron, but then that was supposedly posted incorrectly by another relative or someone who says that they know the family......think I got that right...it is very confusing....

Sorry, but judging by some of their actions I think they could all be related to each other.  Not trying to be rude, but it is a distinct possibity IMO.   

[no rose colored glasses]

That's the whole problem with relatives and locals talking, who has an agenda, who doesn't. But frankly one of the things AnnaFl is now saying, which I believe shouldn't be said, because of this investigation, is the missing item of Haleigh could be a necklace. Again, I just read this stuff, don't really pay to much mind to it, so who knows? And about that SO with the boat, I'm sure LE is all over that, why would she have to be checking into that. I really think that even if you mean well, somethings should be left for LE to investigate, they are trained for this.IMO

[minnie]

She heard yelling, not screaming...sorry.

That could have also been when she was on the phone after she discoverd Haleigh gone.  On the phone call both Ron and Misty were screaming.

The neighbor reported hearing the noises at 2:20 AM though.

I just wonder if any other neighbors reported hearing sounds to the police.  I too wish they (LE) would release some more details.
Quoting myself here because I don't think anyone has seen this.

 

[luckyday]

Wyks
Scared Monkey

 Offline

Posts: 2879



    Re: Haleigh Cummings 5 yrs old missing in Satsuma, Florida last seen 2/9/09 #5
« Reply #854 on: Today at 11:41:42 AM » Quote 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote from: luckyday on Today at 11:05:01 AM
OK, a confession. I was married to a man very very similar to Ron. This is many moons ago when I was young, dumb, etc.

He abused me and he abused drugs, but when he was good - he was very, very good. He could switch from being nice and genuinely kind to a complete ass cussing, yelling, throwing things, choking, hitting, etc.. It all depended on how many drugs or how much alcohol he had in his system. If he was on hard liquor, forget about it. Thank God, we had no children together!! But my point in all this is that for some reason, he had a strange hold over me. I was addicted to him. It took me a very long time to get out and move on and I did take him back many times in between.

I can almost see inside Misty's mind when it comes to Ron. And I have to sayt hat I feel for her because it is obvious to me that she has absolutely no self esteem. I wish I could pull her aside and shake some sense into her. That is all.


I'm sorry you went thru that, luckyday.  You are exactly right in how we can become addicted to these men.  I believe that it is in part, the charm they can turn on and off at a whim, when it suits their own purposes.  That charm gives us hope, and from giving them 'one more chance', we become mired again and again.  Thank God you got out!!  Am sure that it has made you a stronger person for having gone thru it all. 

I also was married to a man like that.  Two men, in fact.  Went from one bad marriage/divorce to another sev. years later.  Finally I learned!  But not before we had three sons.  My oldest is the spitting image of his father in all ways, having learned at his knee.    Cannot divorce a son.  Sigh.  But their IS tough love, and right now even my youngest son (Mr. Loyal Brother and Peacemaker in the family) has finally seen the need to cut him out of our lives.  We just went thru all of this, having moved ourselves out of the house, changing phone numbers and leaving oldest son no forwarding address.  We've been settled into our new apts for a month now, with no word from the oldest.  Tough love also meaning I cannot see my 2 yr old grandson.  Who, with God's grace, hopefully will not grow up the spitting image in all ways of his father and g.father.   

We who have been there.. done that.. (and there are sev. right here in this forum), *DO* know what an angry/controlling man looks like, acts like, sounds like.  Even in his moments of calm, charming actions/words.  We know it because we LIVED it.  We HAD to know it, we had to be watchful at all times.  We had to learn to read the man, and for many of us, that being ever watchful is what saved our lives, and the lives of our children. 

Sooooo... when we say of a man such as Ron, 'there goes an angry/controlling man', please believe us, cuz we've been there, seen that, and for many of us, our lives depending on recognizing that. 

May God watch over Misty and open her eyes. 

WOW!!! Well, count me in - I have had two as well. And the same thing. My eldest son is just like his father. He was 26 & I was 17. Sound familiar? Stepped right out of that marriage into another abusive marriage. Might as well have had a sign on my forehead, "I cater to drug addicted, alcoholic abusers." Obviously I had not an ounce of self-esteem!!

Wykes, I have also seen your website which is wonderful!!!!!

I just pray that HL is found but I have serious doubts!!! Thanks to all for sharing.

p.s. my 2nd abusive ex used to do the same thing Ron does - the crock-a-dile tears, the falling to the ground. Most of it was due to his heavy intoxication.

[no rose colored glasses]

Fatcatlurker..thanks for posting that, very interesting. 

[GramaMonkey]

I don't recall reading any of this comment by AnnaFl here.

Originally Posted by Anna Fl  - WS
Hi all. I believe strongly that law enforcement DOES have "a clue" but are waiting for the right time/events before moving forward publicly.

Also, things are tense and there is virtually no communication between the families. Ron is keeping everyone as far away as possible except for the media and others he *chooses* to speak to; he has refused to speak to several people including certain media and three psychics who asked for access to the house. Crystal has also asked to see inside the house in the hope she might notice something that was overlooked but Ronnie won't let her near the house. He has offered access to the house but only to certain people and only for a fee.
As far as the marriage and people around the area talking about it...I think the general feeling is disgust.

Do we remember the day helicopters were flying over head there and something was happening.. something big going down??   yet when asked what was going on she replied.."oh, I am an hour away"   

I am not believing anything she says...

Yes, I do remember that, along with the comment that Ron was 'not there all day'.  Guess I should have had a second thought for even posting this. 

[minnie]

She heard yelling, not screaming...sorry.

That could have also been when she was on the phone after she discoverd Haleigh gone.  On the phone call both Ron and Misty were screaming.

The neighbor reported hearing the noises at 2:20 AM though.

I just wonder if any other neighbors reported hearing sounds to the police.  I too wish they (LE) would release some more details.
Quoting myself here because I don't think anyone has seen this.

 

I think I screwed that order up.  sorry.  Should have been after quote:

I just wonder if any other neighbors reported hearing sounds to the police.  I too wish they (LE) would release some more details.

[minnie]

That's the whole problem with relatives and locals talking, who has an agenda, who doesn't. But frankly one of the things AnnaFl is now saying, which I believe shouldn't be said, because of this investigation, is the missing item of Haleigh could be a necklace. Again, I just read this stuff, don't really pay to much mind to it, so who knows? And about that SO with the boat, I'm sure LE is all over that, why would she have to be checking into that. I really think that even if you mean well, somethings should be left for LE to investigate, they are trained for this.IMO

Where are you reading this?  I just went to WS and could not find a recent thread on Haleigh.  They were all in February.  Help!

[Mary]

Well LE, FBI, or anyother law enforcement has given out anything regarding this
investigation. WHAT HAPPEN TO FLORIDA'S SUNSHINE LAWS.
I would like to see LE pick up the love birds and give them both another go before
the big event on friday.
  Another thing that has bothered me is the search they did on the dumpster.
I have never seen LE search anything in full view of people standing around, nor
have I seen them throw bags out all over, not knowing what was inside them, like
maybe a body? It was like they were putting on a display. Am I the only one that did
not like this display.
  Also it bothered me that Tim left so soon????   Got to go to work. JMOP

[klaasend]

I have no idea if AnnaFl has an agenda or not, but she is saying Ron no longer works at the company that he was employed at. I'm sure if that is true or not, some smart monkey will track that down.

Who is AnnaFL and what does WS stand for?  Thanks to anyone who responds.

AnnaFL claims to be a distant relative of Ron's family.  WS stands for Websleuths which is another forum on missing persons.

[Sieko]

I have no idea if AnnaFl has an agenda or not, but she is saying Ron no longer works at the company that he was employed at. I'm sure if that is true or not, some smart monkey will track that down.

Just in case anyone cares...
http://www.merchantcircle.com/business/Pdm.Bridge.LLC.386-328-4683

[islandmonkey]

I have no idea if AnnaFl has an agenda or not, but she is saying Ron no longer works at the company that he was employed at. I'm sure if that is true or not, some smart monkey will track that down.

Who is AnnaFL and what does WS stand for?  Thanks to anyone who responds.

AnnaFl is a relative that posts here and WS, Websleuths, a forum that is similar to this one. I don't know if she posts on anyother forums.

Who is she a relative of Ron's?

Minnie...it is complicated....we don't know if she is really related to either side...but supposedly she is a distant relative according to Marie (the bio grandmother of Haleigh) and a close relative according to AnnaFL to Crystals side of the family...but then I read that she was related to Ron, but then that was supposedly posted incorrectly by another relative or someone who says that they know the family......think I got that right...it is very confusing....

  PIRATE IS RON'S RELATIVE not Anna FL, sorry for the highlighting but I've answered that question at least 6 times. Anna FL is a relative of Maire's side of the family, she lives about 1 hr away and came to Satsuma when she heard about Haleigh's disappearance (Wouldn't Marie know who her own relative is???) anyhoo, she came to comfort and then heard so many of Misty's stories and then started hearing the non-stop rumors about Misty being out of the trailer that night, and possible drug involvement  (never did she say she saw this with her own eys, just heard it as did Pirate and Stormy)............she's just trying like hell to seperate the truth from fiction with little or no help.........


FYI~Stormy, Pirate and Lflorida are supposedly Satsuma or Palatka residents.