Natalee Case Discussion #806 3/9/09 - 3/12/09

[jen3560]

I am slow on the uptake, but it just occured to me why Silvetti brought Caps into
the equation.

They were scanning that pond area to see if it would hold the pilings for the
new 5 Star hotel and needed a reason to scan.  It makes a difference what
kind of soil is beneanth the muck.  Anything that is more than two stories
has to be set on pilings.

 

Well count me as slow on the uptake too.

Very probable, Magnolia!!!

I know that Caps "changed" the pond a few times -- Is Monserat Pond near where the new hotel would be?

I would say, no, it is not close to that new hotel area. 

I'm not sure......


In late 2003 it became clear that the Free Zone would be expanded, with the addition of Barcadera to the original site at Oranjestad. The location of Barcadera near the airport and the existing harbor of Barcadera has made it the ideal place in Aruba for manufacturing, off shore and distribution business services.
It has also been announced that Barcadera will be developed as Aruba's main port. A third site at Bushiri has also been added to the Free Zone complex. The Bushiri site covers an area of 9.2 hectares and is just one mile from Oranjestad. The Aruba Free Zone has carried out an intensive marketing campaign geared at attracting more South American firms to invest in the new free zone of Aruba.


http://tinyurl.com/arxzsv

Referencing the map that was posted of the proposed new hotel is what I based my response on.  Is Monserat Pond in the Bushiri area?   I would think it is north of Bushiri, but I'd have to revisit maps.  Will do that, now.

Careful not to confuse the two different project.

I believe the recent hotel...........Ritz Carlton?  Is different from this project.  But I'm not 100% on that.

[2NJSons_Mom]

It was the Ritz Carlton project area, that I was thinking of. 

[jen3560]

Thought this was amusing.  Johan has a thread called The Cage at GM.  Here is a snippet of a post, source from 2007 and a funny reply today.

http://www.topix.com/forum/world/aruba/TDL9MI47I6PJE69P7/p2

tippster
Houston, TX
 Reply »
|Report Abuse |Judge it! |#38 Dec 4, 2007
They found her body in a lobster cage 11 miles off of the south shore in Aruba; my aunt was apart of the robotic opperation. Dateline NBC will be breaking the story.... 


Fake Frog
Kabel, Germany
 Reply »
|Report Abuse |Judge it! |#41 23 min ago
tippster wrote:
They found her body in a lobster cage 11 miles off of the south shore in Aruba; my aunt was apart of the robotic opperation. Dateline NBC will be breaking the story....
Wow great news when do ya think NBC will be breaking this story?

Note to self do not believe aunts ROTFL 


 

What I find disconcerting here is the date.

December 4?  Which is 20/21 days before they found the cage - and it certainly wasn't 11 miles offshore.

But the poster knew Dateline was onboard.....that wasn't exactly information that was "out there" at that time.

[2NJSons_Mom]

It was the Ritz Carlton project area, that I was thinking of. 

In my mind, the Ritz Carlton area is closer to Monserat Pond than Bushiri, but not close enough to envision resort structures being built with pilings, etc. 

[2NJSons_Mom]

Thought this was amusing.  Johan has a thread called The Cage at GM.  Here is a snippet of a post, source from 2007 and a funny reply today.

http://www.topix.com/forum/world/aruba/TDL9MI47I6PJE69P7/p2

tippster
Houston, TX
 Reply »
|Report Abuse |Judge it! |#38 Dec 4, 2007
They found her body in a lobster cage 11 miles off of the south shore in Aruba; my aunt was apart of the robotic opperation. Dateline NBC will be breaking the story.... 


Fake Frog
Kabel, Germany
 Reply »
|Report Abuse |Judge it! |#41 23 min ago
tippster wrote:
They found her body in a lobster cage 11 miles off of the south shore in Aruba; my aunt was apart of the robotic opperation. Dateline NBC will be breaking the story....
Wow great news when do ya think NBC will be breaking this story?

Note to self do not believe aunts ROTFL 


 

What I find disconcerting here is the date.

December 4?  Which is 20/21 days before they found the cage - and it certainly wasn't 11 miles offshore.

But the poster knew Dateline was onboard.....that wasn't exactly information that was "out there" at that time.

So true.  I had noticed that and neglected to remark on it.

[Magnolia]

I am slow on the uptake, but it just occured to me why Silvetti brought Caps into
the equation.

They were scanning that pond area to see if it would hold the pilings for the
new 5 Star hotel and needed a reason to scan.  It makes a difference what
kind of soil is beneanth the muck.  Anything that is more than two stories
has to be set on pilings.

 

Well count me as slow on the uptake too.

Very probable, Magnolia!!!

I know that Caps "changed" the pond a few times -- Is Monserat Pond near where the new hotel would be?

I would say, no, it is not close to that new hotel area. 

I'm not sure......


In late 2003 it became clear that the Free Zone would be expanded, with the addition of Barcadera to the original site at Oranjestad. The location of Barcadera near the airport and the existing harbor of Barcadera has made it the ideal place in Aruba for manufacturing, off shore and distribution business services.
It has also been announced that Barcadera will be developed as Aruba's main port. A third site at Bushiri has also been added to the Free Zone complex. The Bushiri site covers an area of 9.2 hectares and is just one mile from Oranjestad. The Aruba Free Zone has carried out an intensive marketing campaign geared at attracting more South American firms to invest in the new free zone of Aruba.


http://tinyurl.com/arxzsv

Even if not the 5 star hotel, the government wants to build something there. IMO.

[jen3560]

It was the Ritz Carlton project area, that I was thinking of. 

In my mind, the Ritz Carlton area is closer to Monserat Pond than Bushiri, but not close enough to envision resort structures being built with pilings, etc. 

I'm thinking Monserrat pond is not this close to the beach?  But I could be wrong:


Palma de Mallorca, 01-02-2007.-

The joint offer presented by the Spanish development company Trusam and Majorcan hotel chain Sol Meliá has been selected by the island government of Aruba to develop a new luxury resort on the island. The project presented comprises the construction of a Meliá hotel, a casino, a spa, a beach club, several restaurants, and other luxury services on the land occupied by the old Hotel Bushiri which will become the new centre of Oranjestad, the capital of Aruba.
The new hotel will be built on a piece of land which spreads over almost 40,000 square metres right alongside an unbroken stretch of 330 metres of beach and together with a major project for which the government proposes a marina, residential area and large shopping and leisure complex. Alongside this development the terminal for cruise liners will also be extended.

This will be the first hotel for the two companies in the Happy Isle, a Caribbean location which receives more than 800,000 visitors each year seeking exclusivity, luxury and superior quality services. It will be incorporated into an area known as the “Longest Linear Park in the Caribbean”, one of the most important infrastructure projects of the Aruba government and along the Boulevard Smith, the main street in Oranjestad, capital of the Caribbean island.
This hotel in Aruba is the first of several projects that Sol Meliá and the Grupo Trusam aim to develop in both Spain and the Caribbean.

http://209.85.173.132/search?q=cache:uQdCv-DJwVEJ:prensa.solmelia.com/en/view_object.html%3Fobj%3D84,c,3262+aruba+SOL-MELI%C3%81&hl=nl&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=nl

Bushiri Beach Resort, Oranjestad
L G Smith Blvd 35
Oranjestad Aruba
Phone: 582-5216

[2NJSons_Mom]

Regarding that topix post dated Dec. 4, 2007........according to Kyle, they were still on their way to Aruba on that date.   Dateline, I believe, boarded the Persistence in Aruba.

***************

http://nholloway.blogspot.com/search?updated-max=2008-01-17T21%3A29%3A00-05%3A00&max-results=7

Sunday, December 16, 2007
VI. The Arrival
 
Friday, Nov-30, 2200 hours: The R/V Persistence departs the Port of New Iberia with seven crew members on board, headed to Isla Mujeres Mexico. The seas and wind are calm, and the visibility is excellent.

Tuesday, Dec-04- 1200 hrs: Dockside Isla Mujeras. The tropical waters are calm and the skies are clear. We take on 1,700 gallons of fuel and head out bound for Jamaica in 2-4ft swells.

Thursday, Dec-06 - 1900 hrs: Slowed down to clutch speed due to weather. We took shelter on the west-side (leeward) of Jamaica.

Tuesday, Dec-11 - 1100 hrs: Leaving Jamaica for Aruba. Tropical Storm Olga is quickly moving towards our location. We head out in 7-10ft seas to stay ahead of the coming storm. Wind E 15-20kts.
1900 hrs: The seas quickly build to 10-12 ft swells. We alter our course to avoid heaving rolling due to running in side-seas. Winds NE 20-25kts.

Wed, Dec 12 - 0900 hrs: Seas 8-10ft, in a moderate squall with heavy rain. Wind NE 30-35kts.

[Magnolia]

Not long after Caps began posting in the Shango thread, he said something about
there being two stories in the riddles.
One was about the Ritz Carlton and the other was about Natalee.

[2NJSons_Mom]

Again, this is the story & map/post I was referring to when I responded to Wreck about the closeness of Monserrat Pond.  I did not think Monserrat Pond was close enough to be part of this proposed project. 

**********

This again?
http://www.aruba-bb.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=68176

Ritz Carlton Will Invest A Record US$200 Million On Aruban Property

February 18th 2009, Aruba.



The yellow stipple line indicates the construction lot for Ritz Carlton
Aruba, the red stipple line the rearranged road towards Westpunt.



ORANJESTAD-The government has surprized many on the island on Wednesday by announcing the
construction of a five star luxury Ritz Carlton Resort. The present and past governments have for
15 years tried to attract a prestigious five star resort brand such as the Ritz Carlton in Aruba, with
not much success.

With great pride Prime Minister Nelson Oduber announced that the parties involved in the
negotiation of the proposed Ritz Carlton project have reached an agreement, and construction of
the resort will start shortly. The Prime Minister admitted that the road to bring Ritz Carlton to
Aruba was long and difficult, but was pleased with the final outcome.

Aruba's tourism industry has long matured, and it is now time to elevate the quality of the tourism
product to a higher level, by attracting the luxury market and that of high excellence. Contrary to
past hotel projects, it is agreed that the Ritz Carlton hotel will not receive tax holiday from the
government, nor will the government stand guaranteed for the project. This project will not cost
Aruba tax payers money, but will provide money to the government and locals once the resort is
operational.

The hotel will be constructed north of the Marriott Resort on Hadicurari Beach, and it will be named
Aruba Ritz Carlton Resort Spa & Casino. Ritz Carlton Aruba will consist out of 320 rooms of high
quality design consistent with the standards of Ritz Carlton. The construction of the five star hotel
property is priced at US$200 million. Aruba Investment Bank is the biggest financial stakeholder in
the project.

While many hotel projects in the Caribbean are being cancelled because of the present global
financial and economic crisis, the construction of Ritz Carlton in Aruba is a sign of confidence in the
tourism product and the economy of the island. The construction of the hotel is welcome news for
the construction sector, it will provide 425 construction jobs. Ritz Carlton Aruba will employ 500
people once the hotel is operational. An additional 550 indirect jobs will be created because of
additional tourists. Oduber says there is no need to attract much foreign labor, as 900 students
complete their studies each year on the island.

Oduber emphasized that attracting an additional five star hotel on the island does not imply that
Aruba is a five star tourism destination, but it is a step forward in achieving that goal. "We have
to continue to improve our tourism product, through educating and motivating employees working
in the sector, and hotels should improve and upgrade their facilities." The government will continue
to push for the relocation of the container terminal from Oranjestad to Barcadera, and soon
announce the start of revitalizing the main street of Oranjestad.

[Kermit]

Kyles posts starting on Jan 31 and Caps posts on same day's
(not guaranteeing 100% accuracy, but close enought to see a pattern)


Black is Kyle
Red is Caps

January 31 - 12:37 p.m.  6:52 p.m.-731 p.m.
February 23-12 09 p.m.  7:03 p.m.-712 p.m.
February 23-9:09 p.m.-1257 p.m.
February 25-9:05 a.m.  4:06 p.m.
February 25-2:42 p.m.-4:50 p.m.  9:14 p.m.-1134 p.m.
February 27-3:16 p.m.  5:47 p.m.
February 27-9:01 a.m.  2:03 p.m.-459 p.m.  8:20 p.m. 11:40 p.m.-1223 a.m.
February 28-3:34 p.m.-40 1 p.m.  10:58 p.m.-1139 p.m.
February 28-7:23 a.m.  6:55 p.m.-1139 p.m.  midnight-1223 a.m.
February 29 -9:27 a.m.  6:10 p.m.-1122 p.m.
February 29-8:47 a.m.  2:21 p.m  4:35 p.m.- 5:47 p.m.  10:05 p.m.-1013 p.m.
March 1- 3:07 p.m.
March 1- 12:13 p.m.-322 p.m.  7:14 p.m.  10:53 p.m.-12:09 a.m.
March 3- 1:12 p.m.  2:46 p.m.  5:07 p.m.  7:34 p.m.  8:27 p.m.
March 3- 8:03 p.m.-844 p.m.  11:29 p.m.-1135 p.m.
March 6- 2:03 p.m.-305 p.m.  6:13 p.m.-643 p.m.
March 6- 8:27 p.m.
March 7- 8:08 a.m.-10:40 a.m.
March 7- 4:43 p.m.-615 p.m.
March 8- 12:23 p.m.
March 8- 9:43 p.m.-1134 p.m.
March 10- 6:30 p.m.-738 p.m.
March 10- none
March 14- 9:23 a.m.
March 14- 12:10 a.m.
March 18-928am-3:09 p.m.  8:51 p.m.-910 p.m.
March 18-none
March 19- 1:52 p.m.  4:42 p.m.  10:36 p.m.
March 19-none
March 20- 1:32 p.m.  5:27 p.m.
March 20-none

KYLE went to John Silvettis home - March 21
March 21- 8:47 a.m.
March 21- 1:48 a.m.
March 22- 9:36 p.m.
March 22-none
April 8- 4:10 p.m.-4:39 p.m.
April 8-none
April 16 1:16 a.m.
April 19-1 10 a.m.-139 a.m
April 19- 2:31 p.m.-246 p.m.
April 19-752 p.m.-1046 p.m..
April 21-2 18 a.m.
April 22-1138 a.m.- 6:01 p.m.
April 22-828 p.m.-8:36 p.m.
April 22-1139 p.m.-1152 p.m.
April 23-1209 a.m.-1:40 a.m
April 23-1059 a.m.-12:40 p.m..xxxxx
April 23-3 22 p.m.-520 p.m.
April 23-1006 p.m.-10:19 p.m.
April 24-241 a.m.-3:11 a.m
April 24-10:28 a.m.-1034 a.m.xxxxxxxx
April 24-1:30 p.m.-703 p.m.
April 24 10:57 p.m.-12:57 a.m.
April 25-12:36 p.m.-335 p.m.xxxxxxxxx
April 25-607 p.m.-1058 p.m.
April 26-306 p.m.
April 28-103 a.m.-2:09 a.m.
April 28-127 p.m.xxxxxxxx
May 5-949 p.m.-1146 p.m.
May 6-1207 a.m.
May 8-134 a.m.-2:23 a.m.
May 8-1035 a.m.-11:48 a.m.xxxxxxxx
May 9-1224 a.m.-1:43 a.m.
May 9-4:37 p.m.-721 p.m.-and---- 11:52 p.m.
May 10-1229 a.m.-224 a.m.
May 14- 1:26 p.m.-337 p.m.  8:40 p.m.
May 15- 6:30 p.m.-737 p.m.
May 16- 8:59 a.m.  12:10 p.m.
May 19-1 12 a.m.
May 20-4 10 p.m.-4:16 p.m.
June 2-243 a.m.

June 6-8 16 a.m.

June 13-3 30 am-358 am

Edit Caps to Kyle per Kermit's request.

[Kermit]

June 6-8 16 a.m

That would be Kyles post (it should not be in red).

[Kermit]

Didn't Red write an article about one of these hotels needs to be investigated (on the front page.)

[jen3560]

Regarding that topix post dated Dec. 4, 2007........according to Kyle, they were still on their way to Aruba on that date.   Dateline, I believe, boarded the Persistence in Aruba.

***************

http://nholloway.blogspot.com/search?updated-max=2008-01-17T21%3A29%3A00-05%3A00&max-results=7

Sunday, December 16, 2007
VI. The Arrival
 
Friday, Nov-30, 2200 hours: The R/V Persistence departs the Port of New Iberia with seven crew members on board, headed to Isla Mujeres Mexico. The seas and wind are calm, and the visibility is excellent.

Tuesday, Dec-04- 1200 hrs: Dockside Isla Mujeras. The tropical waters are calm and the skies are clear. We take on 1,700 gallons of fuel and head out bound for Jamaica in 2-4ft swells.

Thursday, Dec-06 - 1900 hrs: Slowed down to clutch speed due to weather. We took shelter on the west-side (leeward) of Jamaica.

Tuesday, Dec-11 - 1100 hrs: Leaving Jamaica for Aruba. Tropical Storm Olga is quickly moving towards our location. We head out in 7-10ft seas to stay ahead of the coming storm. Wind E 15-20kts.
1900 hrs: The seas quickly build to 10-12 ft swells. We alter our course to avoid heaving rolling due to running in side-seas. Winds NE 20-25kts.

Wed, Dec 12 - 0900 hrs: Seas 8-10ft, in a moderate squall with heavy rain. Wind NE 30-35kts.

So that post was made by someone who knew Dateline would be joining the Persistence.

Or - a really lucky guess.

[2NJSons_Mom]

Didn't Red write an article about one of these hotels needs to be investigated (on the front page.)

Was it this one?

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2006/07/11/ritz-carlton-to-aruba-no-incentives-no-deal-who-calls-the-shots-in-aruba/

[Kermit]

Dec. 18, 2007 - LegallyLex posted at BFN: John told me when he got to Aruba Saturday that NBC was the only news team there at the time. The re st of the reporters had left when JVDS was released
---------------------
Dec 18, 2007 - KYLE posted at BFN:   We must use all available press agencies to shed light onto the authorities involved. Pray for the Island, the family, and for a thorough internal investigation
--------------------
Just before Christmas they are contacted by a detective and his brother who gave them information that turned out to be the correct latitude
-------------------------------
On December 20, 2008 CapsLockWizard signed up that scared monkeys
same day the persistence was doing its first ROV dive
---------------------------------
Dec-28 most of the crew and search team took a break and had dinner on the island

-----------
Christmas Eve was the day that Kyle first saw the cage
-----------------

Dec. 29 the crew dropped a remote operated vehicle, or ROV, into the water to get a closer look. Tim Miller: It looked like a skull. Still looks like a skull. I can’t help but believe at this moment that that is human remains in that crab trap.
-------------------------------------
December 30 the important Arubans come on board to look to see what was found.  They agreed to find looked promising

about December 30 Kyle says John definitely believed the Arubans at their every word when they said on Dec 30th that it was nothing case relevant
----------------------------
Just after the 30th of Dec we were told it would take about 10-14 days to bring in a Dutch team capable of processing an underwater site














Keeping in mind, we know that Kyle was in the US during the week of Feb 14th meeting with executives to sell the ROV footage.
HE writes:

February 25 Natalie's remains will be found
SNIP
During the process we are presented with two major challenges: 1) to look beyond all the garbage to see God's hand working in the situation as it unfolds, step by step.  By garbage, I mean the temptation to take full control over the situation, distractions from both well-intended people and opportunists, and discouragement


February 27 there is a side sonar search of the pond. Kyle said it was to rule out one of the ponds that had never been searched

[jen3560]

2NJ - A couple of additional reasons I believe the Ritz is a different project.

The One in conjunction with the port relocation is being funded by Spanish investors, and the Aruban Investment Bank wasn't to be a financial stakeholder.

[2NJSons_Mom]

Regarding that topix post dated Dec. 4, 2007........according to Kyle, they were still on their way to Aruba on that date.   Dateline, I believe, boarded the Persistence in Aruba.

***************

http://nholloway.blogspot.com/search?updated-max=2008-01-17T21%3A29%3A00-05%3A00&max-results=7

Sunday, December 16, 2007
VI. The Arrival
 
Friday, Nov-30, 2200 hours: The R/V Persistence departs the Port of New Iberia with seven crew members on board, headed to Isla Mujeres Mexico. The seas and wind are calm, and the visibility is excellent.

Tuesday, Dec-04- 1200 hrs: Dockside Isla Mujeras. The tropical waters are calm and the skies are clear. We take on 1,700 gallons of fuel and head out bound for Jamaica in 2-4ft swells.

Thursday, Dec-06 - 1900 hrs: Slowed down to clutch speed due to weather. We took shelter on the west-side (leeward) of Jamaica.

Tuesday, Dec-11 - 1100 hrs: Leaving Jamaica for Aruba. Tropical Storm Olga is quickly moving towards our location. We head out in 7-10ft seas to stay ahead of the coming storm. Wind E 15-20kts.
1900 hrs: The seas quickly build to 10-12 ft swells. We alter our course to avoid heaving rolling due to running in side-seas. Winds NE 20-25kts.

Wed, Dec 12 - 0900 hrs: Seas 8-10ft, in a moderate squall with heavy rain. Wind NE 30-35kts.

So that post was made by someone who knew Dateline would be joining the Persistence.

Or - a really lucky guess.

    Maybe Johan knows.     

[Kermit]

Didn't Red write an article about one of these hotels needs to be investigated (on the front page.)

Was it this one?

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2006/07/11/ritz-carlton-to-aruba-no-incentives-no-deal-who-calls-the-shots-in-aruba/

Yes thank you. Man, you are quick. Thank you.

[2NJSons_Mom]

2NJ - A couple of additional reasons I believe the Ritz is a different project.

The One in conjunction with the port relocation is being funded by Spanish investors, and the Aruban Investment Bank wasn't to be a financial stakeholder.

    I never said they were the same project.