Natalee Case Discussion #806 3/9/09 - 3/12/09

[nimrod]

Natalee was kidnapped, raped, murdered, disposed of and Aruba covered it up long before the Persistence came on the scene. With all the people involved in the Pesistence's search, it is a real stretch to think (or prove) that the Persistence was now involved in Aruba's cover up. IMO. I believe Tim Miller realizes now that he was mistaken in his original belief and has moved on with his life's work. That leaves only Kyle's words about what he thinks happened. His words, are not near enough proof  of anything for me.

You think you know what Tim Miller realizes now......really?  Personally I would never attempt to speak for Tim Miller.

I don't think anyone is saying the entire Pesistence crew was in on a conspiracy, only that the real reason for the search may not have been Natalee.  Why is that so hard for people to consider?

Klass, the reason I said that is because I don't think Tim would ever give up in his beliefs on something so important and because I understand that Tim is still connected with Silvetti. I'm sorry you took offense to that. Also, in my business career I donated a lot of free time and services for charitable organiztions, but you can bet that I always had my eyes open for other business opportunities while doing that work. Why is that so hard for people to consider?

It's the pictures for me.  It wasn't just fabric.  It wasn't just rocks.  Iirc, we've heard from more than just Kyle that per the FBI there were human remains, Tim Miller said it too.

I would really appreciate it to see a link where the FBI said there were human remains. That would change my whole outlook on things.

[Lifesong]

Natalee was kidnapped, raped, murdered, disposed of and Aruba covered it up long before the Persistence came on the scene. With all the people involved in the Pesistence's search, it is a real stretch to think (or prove) that the Persistence was now involved in Aruba's cover up. IMO. I believe Tim Miller realizes now that he was mistaken in his original belief and has moved on with his life's work. That leaves only Kyle's words about what he thinks happened. His words, are not near enough proof  of anything for me.

You think you know what Tim Miller realizes now......really?  Personally I would never attempt to speak for Tim Miller.

I don't think anyone is saying the entire Pesistence crew was in on a conspiracy, only that the real reason for the search may not have been Natalee.  Why is that so hard for people to consider?

Klass, the reason I said that is because I don't think Tim would ever give up in his beliefs on something so important and because I understand that Tim is still connected with Silvetti. I'm sorry you took offense to that. Also, in my business career I donated a lot of free time and services for charitable organiztions, but you can bet that I always had my eyes open for other business opportunities while doing that work. Why is that so hard for people to consider?

It's the pictures for me.  It wasn't just fabric.  It wasn't just rocks.  Iirc, we've heard from more than just Kyle that per the FBI there were human remains, Tim Miller said it too.

I would really appreciate it to see a link where the FBI said there were human remains. That would change my whole outlook on things.

   I'm already looking for a link!  It sounded strange to me too, I'm looking right now to find out why I think that.

[Buckeye]

Natalee was kidnapped, raped, murdered, disposed of and Aruba covered it up long before the Persistence came on the scene. With all the people involved in the Pesistence's search, it is a real stretch to think (or prove) that the Persistence was now involved in Aruba's cover up. IMO. I believe Tim Miller realizes now that he was mistaken in his original belief and has moved on with his life's work. That leaves only Kyle's words about what he thinks happened. His words, are not near enough proof  of anything for me.

Couple problems: Kyle is a trained scientist, he first described what he saw, then he tried to make sense of what he saw.  In the beginning, I remember very condescending comments about the online posters....he believed we were overreacting about the ALE....he was oh so objective....until...low and behold...our initial warnings panned out.  He was naive regarding the country but he was still the one commissioned to obtain the visuals and determine the target value.  He saw what he saw. We are all free to interpret the images but I don't doubt his description.

The question is, where is what he saw?  Did it get away because of "business" bonds?

I don't fault business people with a heart...but the en devour should be  "advertised" as such.

[Tamikosmom]

Natalee was kidnapped, raped, murdered, disposed of and Aruba covered it up long before the Persistence came on the scene. With all the people involved in the Pesistence's search, it is a real stretch to think (or prove) that the Persistence was now involved in Aruba's cover up. IMO. I believe Tim Miller realizes now that he was mistaken in his original belief and has moved on with his life's work. That leaves only Kyle's words about what he thinks happened. His words, are not near enough proof  of anything for me.

You think you know what Tim Miller realizes now......really?  Personally I would never attempt to speak for Tim Miller.

I don't think anyone is saying the entire Pesistence crew was in on a conspiracy, only that the real reason for the search may not have been Natalee.  Why is that so hard for people to consider?

Klass, the reason I said that is because I don't think Tim would ever give up in his beliefs on something so important and because I understand that Tim is still connected with Silvetti. I'm sorry you took offense to that. Also, in my business career I donated a lot of free time and services for charitable organiztions, but you can bet that I always had my eyes open for other business opportunities while doing that work. Why is that so hard for people to consider?

Nimrod ... if you truly believe that John Silvetti betrayed your family by allowing the enemy unchalledged possession of what could have been the remains of your beloved ... would you consider future business ventures with this man.

Those who claim to have burden to expose the corrupt Aruban investigation as well as those who are furthering the corrupt investigation ... the corrupt investigation that has denied Natalee Holloway justice ... must put themselves in the place of her family who has been forced to ride the roller coaster from H--- for almost four years.  Justice demands it!  Loyalty for the family demands it!

IF Tim Miller has any doubts concerning the integrity of John Silvetti regarding the happenings encompassing the trap and ... he still chooses to be involved with this man professionally ... I am very troubled ... I am sooo disappointed.

Janet

+++++++


KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman:  It's unanimous that Tim M. should never have told Dave and Beth anything about the trap until it's contents were forensically examined.  After the diver visual inspection of the trap he was obligated to report what the Aruban divers reported because although limited, it's the only information he had and the family rightfully wanted answers. It was a royal mess. I took a lot of heat for telling Tim Miller anything about the trap that may have prompted him to making the calls to the family. In my defence, I specifically told Tim not to tell anyone about the trap until the contents are analysed. He couldn't wait. He was very emotional, hopeful, and confident. It was a crushing time for all. Most of all- for Tim Miller, Dave, and Beth. This was Dec 30th


TIM MILLER - IN HIS OWN WORDS

THE DATELINE SPECIAL

The search for Natalee Holloway
TRANSCRIPT
By Chris Hansen
Correspondent
NBC News
updated 5:20 p.m. PT, Fri., Feb. 22, 2008

Tim Miller: I stepped on the boat and said “Natalee we're coming to get you.” Now we're finally coming to get you. And I still believe that from the bottom of my heart. She's out here and now we're on our way.

Over the holiday season, the crew of the persistence worked day and night to survey the ocean floor and look for targets that could hold the key to finding Natalee.

On Christmas Eve sonar pictures revealed what looked like a large trap, almost exactly where Tim Miller theorized it would be.

And on Dec. 29 the crew dropped a remote operated vehicle, or ROV, into the water to get a closer look.

Tim Miller: It looked like a skull. Still looks like a skull.  ... In my years of searching we have seen several bodies, skeletal remains--I have seen my own daughter's skeletal remains. I can’t help but believe at this moment that that is human remains in that crab trap.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23301056/page/4/


The search for Natalee Holloway
TRANSCRIPT
By Chris Hansen
Correspondent
NBC News
updated 5:20 p.m. PT, Fri., Feb. 22, 2008

Dave Holloway: I got a phone call from Tim.

Chris Hansen: And what'd he say?

Dave Holloway: He told me, he said, "Dave, we found her."

Chris Hansen: "We found her?"

Dave Holloway: Yeah. I said, "Are you sure?" and he said, "I’m 99.9 percent sure."  He said, "We hadn't gone down and dove under or anything. But the photographs--"he said, "I tell you, Dave." I-- he said, "That's what we're looking for. And that's gotta-- that-- that's it."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23301056/page/4/


2008/2009 - TIM MILLER AND JOHN SILVETTI CONNECTION

Klaasend
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #784 12/8/08 -
« Reply #192 on: December 09, 2008, 04:50:23 PM »

Tim Miller and John Silvetti from the Silvetti Group out of Louisiana, will be in Yankeetown, Florida to search for the two men missing since their plane lost radar contact with officials. Darien Peckham and Zachary Schlitt were headed to Vandenberg Airport, Tampa, Florida and never reached their destination. We will post more details regarding this search at a later date

http://www.texasequusearch.org/

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4227.msg573198


Bergfeld, Chase - Richland Chambers Reservoir, TX- missing 12/13/08
Posted on 17. Jan, 2009 by B Tarr in Memorials

12/18/08 - Texas EquuSearch was successful in locating the A&M Student, Chase Bergfeld. Our hearts and prayers go out to the family and friends of this young man. TES would like to thank John Silvetti and the Silvetti group from Louisiana and Dennis and Tammy Watters and also the Texas Parks and Wildlife personnel for their roles in helping Texas EquuSearch locate A&M Student, Chase Bergfeld.

http://texasequusearch.org/2009/01/bergfeld-chase-richland-chambers-reservoir-tx-missing-121308/


Search for Missing Kayaker - Dr. Stephen Zella, in Seabrook, TX - TES needs searchers
Posted on 22. Feb, 2009 by B Tarr in Active Cases, Featured Articles, Missing Persons

02/22/09 - Sunday, Feb 22, 2009 - As of 10:15 pm, Texas EquuSearch has been joined in the search for Dr. Zella by the Silvetti Group and Legacy Offshore Divers & Construction Company, both out of Louisiana. We will continue searching tonight, as long as possible.

http://texasequusearch.org/2009/02/search-for-missing-kayaker-in-seabrook-tx-tes-needs-searchers/


Search team hopes they are close to finding missing kayaker
Bay Area Citizen
By DANA GUTHRIE
Updated: 02.24.09

On Monday, five different groups were using sonar equipment to scan the bottom of Clear Lake — League City, Nassau Bay, the Montgomery County Constable’s office and The Silvetti Group and Legacy Offshore Divers & Construction Co., both of Louisiana, Black said. Equusearch said the sonar teams and divers will work through most of Monday night.

“The winds have not let up on us to allow us to do anything much until now,” Black said Monday afternoon.

The search will continue on Tuesday beginning at 8 a.m. Volunteers are needed and encouraged to visit the command center located at the Clear Lake Park boat ramp on NASA Parkway in Seabrook.

At about 10:15 p.m. Sunday, the search team was joined by The Silvetti Group and Legacy arrived with divers, who began searching shortly thereafter and continued diving until about 5 a.m. Monday.

http://www.hcnonline.com/articles/2009/02/24/bay_area_citizen/news/2kayak26.txt

[wreck]

Natalee was kidnapped, raped, murdered, disposed of and Aruba covered it up long before the Persistence came on the scene. With all the people involved in the Pesistence's search, it is a real stretch to think (or prove) that the Persistence was now involved in Aruba's cover up. IMO. I believe Tim Miller realizes now that he was mistaken in his original belief and has moved on with his life's work. That leaves only Kyle's words about what he thinks happened. His words, are not near enough proof  of anything for me.

Couple problems: Kyle is a trained scientist, he first described what he saw, then he tried to make sense of what he saw.  In the beginning, I remember very condescending comments about the online posters....he believed we were overreacting about the ALE....he was oh so objective....until...low and behold...our initial warnings panned out.  He was naive regarding the country but he was still the one commissioned to obtain the visuals and determine the target value.  He saw what he saw. We are all free to interpret the images but I don't doubt his description.

The question is, where is what he saw?  Did it get away because of "business" bonds?

I don't fault business people with a heart...but the en devour should be  "advertised" as such.

There is no question that what we have uncovered is purely circumstantial. "Proof" may be unattainable at this juncture. I still say if you read EVERYTHING that we have uncovered and consider them logically and with an open mind -- the questions of what happened are very real and worth talking about. I at least respect Nimrod coming here with a polite and somewhat reasoned opinion.

[Tamikosmom]

Natalee was kidnapped, raped, murdered, disposed of and Aruba covered it up long before the Persistence came on the scene. With all the people involved in the Pesistence's search, it is a real stretch to think (or prove) that the Persistence was now involved in Aruba's cover up. IMO. I believe Tim Miller realizes now that he was mistaken in his original belief and has moved on with his life's work. That leaves only Kyle's words about what he thinks happened. His words, are not near enough proof  of anything for me.

You think you know what Tim Miller realizes now......really?  Personally I would never attempt to speak for Tim Miller.

I don't think anyone is saying the entire Pesistence crew was in on a conspiracy, only that the real reason for the search may not have been Natalee.  Why is that so hard for people to consider?

Klass, the reason I said that is because I don't think Tim would ever give up in his beliefs on something so important and because I understand that Tim is still connected with Silvetti. I'm sorry you took offense to that. Also, in my business career I donated a lot of free time and services for charitable organiztions, but you can bet that I always had my eyes open for other business opportunities while doing that work. Why is that so hard for people to consider?

It's the pictures for me.  It wasn't just fabric.  It wasn't just rocks.  Iirc, we've heard from more than just Kyle that per the FBI there were human remains, Tim Miller said it too.

I would really appreciate it to see a link where the FBI said there were human remains. That would change my whole outlook on things.

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman:  As of the 2nd week of Feb, this is what I had learned from the FBI: The contents of the trap were being actively investigated. The forensic results of a fabric sample showed the fabric sample was not a match to Natalee's blouse and that no DNA match to Natalee was found within that fabric sample. Human remains were found, but the FBI was not and would not comment on the case. The FBI did not comment on the remains, but rather the fabric sample.

[Anna]

Yes, Caps posted that Beth lied, Natalee was not a virgin and Julia ran with that lie.  And not one peep out of his supporters. 
I always thought the Cardinal Rule in Natalee Holloway thread was no bashing of the victim or her family but he surely did.

AFAIK, that discussion took place in the Shango/Simian thread where a lot of things were discussed.  I never for one second and still don't believe that Beth lied about anything.  To assume that just because I or anyone else for that matter didn't post something about it, agreed with it; is wrong in my opinion.  A lot of questions and different scenarios were discussed there that I didn't believe or agree with, that didn't mean that others didn't have the right to ask the questions or discuss the scenarios.  To this day, I don't always make a post when I don't agree with something. 

Whoever Caps is/was, through my communications with him on or off the forum; he knew that I did not believe that either of Natalee's parents were involved in her disappearance, or would have misrepresented the facts about Natalee.

I don't always post when I have a difference of opinion with another poster or don't agree with their theoriess or suggested scenarios.

It is not necessary to post to counter each and everything with which we may not agree.

However, posting that Beth lied and stating this as a fact as was done goes just a little beyond not agreeing with opinion or theory.

Those of us who did not support this particular poster were constantly told how he only wanted to help and yet he was never required to state what was opinion and what was fact as the rest of us are required to do. 

But I think posting that Beth lied and who ran with that lie goes beyond a difference of opinion.

That's just mine.  Opinion, that is.

We all have them.

.

[texasmom]

http://www.amigoe.com/artman/publish/artikel_53775.php

Google translation:

Netherlands examine integrity Aruban Board
March 11, 2009, 15:10 (GMT -04:00)

  Email this article
  Print this article
 
ORANGE CITY / THE HAGUE - The Netherlands will examine the integrity of the Board on Aruba. This Secretary Ank Bijleveld-Schouten of Kingdom (CDA) given to the Second Chamber.

During the continuation of a general consultation of the Netherlands Antillean and Aruban Affairs in the Lower House yesterday, the MPs expressed their concerns about the integrity of the Aruban government. According to Jan Schinkelshoek of the CDA shows the leaked VNO-week notice that there is a lot wrong on the island. Schinkelshoek believes it to Orange City to demonstrate that not ramkoers in Netherlands. This was the report of the Dutch Representation in Aruba, reported to the State Secretary, Dutch Justice Minister Ernst Hirsch Ballin and Hague officials.

-PVV MP Hero Brinkman said outright 'state terror' in Aruba, according to a report of the World. If it is to send marines to the island of Ireland to order. Brinkman wants an insight into previous reports of representation, something that by the Aruban Justice Minister Rudy Croes is requested.

State Secretary Bijleveld rejected the request because it is confidential information. The reports will be treated as any other information on Dutch embassies arrives. They are used to Den Haag information including the Second Chamber.

Disturbed

Bijl Field gave further that the relationship with Aruba has been under pressure to stand by the affair. The position of the VNO in Aruba has become difficult, she said. The ratio might be damaged. The Aruban government would no longer do business with the representation. The State maintains, however, the current situation. "It is just the Representation of the Netherlands to Aruba," said the Secretary.

Meanwhile, Prime Minister Nelson Oduber arrived in the Netherlands (he departed not today, as the newspaper reported, but last night). As he talks with his Dutch colleague Jan Peter Balkenende on the VNO-affair and its impact on the relationship between the two countries. Today he has a conversation with State Secretary Bijleveld. She said good hope that the relationship can be recovered. Voice is also about the immigration policy that both countries have signed a cooperation protocol.

[Lifesong]

Kyle:

oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #743 3/14 -
« Reply #709 on: March 18, 2008, 11:11:50 AM »

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2705.msg366289#msg366289

As of the 2nd week of Feb, this is what I had learned from the FBI:
The contents of the trap were being actively investigated.  The forensic results of a fabric sample showed the fabric sample was not a match to Natalee's blouse and that no DNA match to Natalee was found within that fabric sample.  Human remains were found, but the FBI was not and would not comment on the case.  The FBI did not comment on the remains, but rather the fabric sample.

Tim Miller:

12/30/2007
Tim Miller:  “In my years of searching we have seen several bodies, skeletal remains--I have seen my own daughter's skeletal remains.  I can’t help but believe at this moment that that is human remains in that crab trap.”

05/13/2008
Tim Miller:  "You know, we located something on December 29th, it was sent off to the lab. We still don’t know exactly what it was, all we know is there was a press conference that says the items that were found inside that crab trap did not match Natalee’s DNA.  Now, is that saying that we possibly found somebody else or what?  You know, we still don’t know."

Nimrod, This is why I feel the FBI has acknowledged remains in the trap.  DNA = remains

[nimrod]

Natalee was kidnapped, raped, murdered, disposed of and Aruba covered it up long before the Persistence came on the scene. With all the people involved in the Pesistence's search, it is a real stretch to think (or prove) that the Persistence was now involved in Aruba's cover up. IMO. I believe Tim Miller realizes now that he was mistaken in his original belief and has moved on with his life's work. That leaves only Kyle's words about what he thinks happened. His words, are not near enough proof  of anything for me.

You think you know what Tim Miller realizes now......really?  Personally I would never attempt to speak for Tim Miller.

I don't think anyone is saying the entire Pesistence crew was in on a conspiracy, only that the real reason for the search may not have been Natalee.  Why is that so hard for people to consider?

Klass, the reason I said that is because I don't think Tim would ever give up in his beliefs on something so important and because I understand that Tim is still connected with Silvetti. I'm sorry you took offense to that. Also, in my business career I donated a lot of free time and services for charitable organiztions, but you can bet that I always had my eyes open for other business opportunities while doing that work. Why is that so hard for people to consider?

Nimrod ... if you truly believe that John Silvetti betrayed your family by allowing the enemy unchalledged possession of what could have been the remains of your beloved ... would you consider future business ventures with this man.

Those who claim to have burden to expose the corrupt Aruban investigation as well as those who are furthering the corrupt investigation ... the corrupt investigation that has denied Natalee Holloway justice ... must put themselves in the place of her family who has been forced to ride the roller coaster from H--- for almost four years.  Justice demands it!  Loyalty for the family demands it!

IF Tim Miller has any doubts concerning the integrity of John Silvetti regarding the happenings encompassing the trap and ... he still chooses to be involved with this man professionally ... I am very troubled ... I am sooo disappointed.

Janet

+++++++


KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman:  It's unanimous that Tim M. should never have told Dave and Beth anything about the trap until it's contents were forensically examined.  After the diver visual inspection of the trap he was obligated to report what the Aruban divers reported because although limited, it's the only information he had and the family rightfully wanted answers. It was a royal mess. I took a lot of heat for telling Tim Miller anything about the trap that may have prompted him to making the calls to the family. In my defence, I specifically told Tim not to tell anyone about the trap until the contents are analysed. He couldn't wait. He was very emotional, hopeful, and confident. It was a crushing time for all. Most of all- for Tim Miller, Dave, and Beth. This was Dec 30th


TIM MILLER - IN HIS OWN WORDS

THE DATELINE SPECIAL

The search for Natalee Holloway
TRANSCRIPT
By Chris Hansen
Correspondent
NBC News
updated 5:20 p.m. PT, Fri., Feb. 22, 2008

Tim Miller: I stepped on the boat and said “Natalee we're coming to get you.” Now we're finally coming to get you. And I still believe that from the bottom of my heart. She's out here and now we're on our way.

Over the holiday season, the crew of the persistence worked day and night to survey the ocean floor and look for targets that could hold the key to finding Natalee.

On Christmas Eve sonar pictures revealed what looked like a large trap, almost exactly where Tim Miller theorized it would be.

And on Dec. 29 the crew dropped a remote operated vehicle, or ROV, into the water to get a closer look.

Tim Miller: It looked like a skull. Still looks like a skull.  ... In my years of searching we have seen several bodies, skeletal remains--I have seen my own daughter's skeletal remains. I can’t help but believe at this moment that that is human remains in that crab trap.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23301056/page/4/


The search for Natalee Holloway
TRANSCRIPT
By Chris Hansen
Correspondent
NBC News
updated 5:20 p.m. PT, Fri., Feb. 22, 2008

Dave Holloway: I got a phone call from Tim.

Chris Hansen: And what'd he say?

Dave Holloway: He told me, he said, "Dave, we found her."

Chris Hansen: "We found her?"

Dave Holloway: Yeah. I said, "Are you sure?" and he said, "I’m 99.9 percent sure."  He said, "We hadn't gone down and dove under or anything. But the photographs--"he said, "I tell you, Dave." I-- he said, "That's what we're looking for. And that's gotta-- that-- that's it."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23301056/page/4/


2008/2009 - TIM MILLER AND JOHN SILVETTI CONNECTION

Klaasend
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #784 12/8/08 -
« Reply #192 on: December 09, 2008, 04:50:23 PM »

Tim Miller and John Silvetti from the Silvetti Group out of Louisiana, will be in Yankeetown, Florida to search for the two men missing since their plane lost radar contact with officials. Darien Peckham and Zachary Schlitt were headed to Vandenberg Airport, Tampa, Florida and never reached their destination. We will post more details regarding this search at a later date

http://www.texasequusearch.org/

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4227.msg573198


Bergfeld, Chase - Richland Chambers Reservoir, TX- missing 12/13/08
Posted on 17. Jan, 2009 by B Tarr in Memorials

12/18/08 - Texas EquuSearch was successful in locating the A&M Student, Chase Bergfeld. Our hearts and prayers go out to the family and friends of this young man. TES would like to thank John Silvetti and the Silvetti group from Louisiana and Dennis and Tammy Watters and also the Texas Parks and Wildlife personnel for their roles in helping Texas EquuSearch locate A&M Student, Chase Bergfeld.

http://texasequusearch.org/2009/01/bergfeld-chase-richland-chambers-reservoir-tx-missing-121308/


Search for Missing Kayaker - Dr. Stephen Zella, in Seabrook, TX - TES needs searchers
Posted on 22. Feb, 2009 by B Tarr in Active Cases, Featured Articles, Missing Persons

02/22/09 - Sunday, Feb 22, 2009 - As of 10:15 pm, Texas EquuSearch has been joined in the search for Dr. Zella by the Silvetti Group and Legacy Offshore Divers & Construction Company, both out of Louisiana. We will continue searching tonight, as long as possible.

http://texasequusearch.org/2009/02/search-for-missing-kayaker-in-seabrook-tx-tes-needs-searchers/


Search team hopes they are close to finding missing kayaker
Bay Area Citizen
By DANA GUTHRIE
Updated: 02.24.09

On Monday, five different groups were using sonar equipment to scan the bottom of Clear Lake — League City, Nassau Bay, the Montgomery County Constable’s office and The Silvetti Group and Legacy Offshore Divers & Construction Co., both of Louisiana, Black said. Equusearch said the sonar teams and divers will work through most of Monday night.

“The winds have not let up on us to allow us to do anything much until now,” Black said Monday afternoon.

The search will continue on Tuesday beginning at 8 a.m. Volunteers are needed and encouraged to visit the command center located at the Clear Lake Park boat ramp on NASA Parkway in Seabrook.

At about 10:15 p.m. Sunday, the search team was joined by The Silvetti Group and Legacy arrived with divers, who began searching shortly thereafter and continued diving until about 5 a.m. Monday.

http://www.hcnonline.com/articles/2009/02/24/bay_area_citizen/news/2kayak26.txt

I wonder how many "bodies" or skeletons that Kyle ever saw in his type of work. I'd guess none.

[2NJSons_Mom]

Nimrod,

Kyle may not have seen other bodies or skeletons in his line of work, but may have in his course of study at Rutgers or elsewhere.  None of us know.  His training is in a science, so that could include exposure to these things.

[Buckeye]

Natalee was kidnapped, raped, murdered, disposed of and Aruba covered it up long before the Persistence came on the scene. With all the people involved in the Pesistence's search, it is a real stretch to think (or prove) that the Persistence was now involved in Aruba's cover up. IMO. I believe Tim Miller realizes now that he was mistaken in his original belief and has moved on with his life's work. That leaves only Kyle's words about what he thinks happened. His words, are not near enough proof  of anything for me.

Couple problems: Kyle is a trained scientist, he first described what he saw, then he tried to make sense of what he saw.  In the beginning, I remember very condescending comments about the online posters....he believed we were overreacting about the ALE....he was oh so objective....until...low and behold...our initial warnings panned out.  He was naive regarding the country but he was still the one commissioned to obtain the visuals and determine the target value.  He saw what he saw. We are all free to interpret the images but I don't doubt his description.

The question is, where is what he saw?  Did it get away because of "business" bonds?

I don't fault business people with a heart...but the en devour should be  "advertised" as such.

There is no question that what we have uncovered is purely circumstantial. "Proof" may be unattainable at this juncture. I still say if you read EVERYTHING that we have uncovered and consider them logically and with an open mind -- the questions of what happened are very real and worth talking about. I at least respect Nimrod coming here with a polite and somewhat reasoned opinion.

I agree.

[Buckeye]

Nimrod,

Kyle may not have seen other bodies or skeletons in his line of work, but may have in his course of study at Rutgers or elsewhere.  None of us know.  His training is in a science, so that could include exposure to these things.

I would think he's seen a shot or two of sunken ships...perhaps remains...

He seemed to give a pretty descriptive analysis of parts of the decomposition..IIRC 

[2NJSons_Mom]

Nimrod,

Kyle may not have seen other bodies or skeletons in his line of work, but may have in his course of study at Rutgers or elsewhere.  None of us know.  His training is in a science, so that could include exposure to these things.

I would think he's seen a shot or two of sunken ships...perhaps remains...

He seemed to give a pretty descriptive analysis of parts of the decomposition..IIRC 

I agree.  I was just posing it as a maybe because Nimrod seemed sure Kyle had probably seen none.

[Buckeye]

I still want to know...if the cage was nothing...and the area has been mapped "for Natalee"...and there are 100+ targets....why are there not scuba divers diving to check the targets??  You don't need a bunch of equipment to dive...when you have figured out where to dive.  If the cage was nothing...where are the divers?  People go to scuba in Aruba all the time.   

[2NJSons_Mom]

Science wasn't my strong subject, and went hand in hand with my Math....bad if, then statement.   

[Tamikosmom]

I wonder how many "bodies" or skeletons that Kyle ever saw in his type of work. I'd guess none.

The fact that John Silvetti took Kyle Kingman along on the huge undertaking that may have been two-fold but ... did have an objective to locate remains of Natalee Holloway speaks for itself as far as Kyle Kingman's qualifications ... Kyle Kingman's expertise.

Janet

+++++

Kyle Kingman
Geophysicist and Marine Geologist
Greater New York City Area

Current Manager at Kingman Geophysical Solutions
Past Manager at Kingman Geophysical Solutions
Education Rutgers, The State University of New Jersey-New Brunswick

Kyle Kingman’s Summary
Kyle Kingman’s Specialties:
Project Management, Sonar Acquisition, hydrographic survey, data processing, remote sensing data analysis

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/b/65/464


KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman:  I found the trap on 1:45am Christmas morning. I got the OK to begin our ROV dive series for the 29th, so I made it our first dive. We got visual of the fish trap and that it was suspicious. Basically, the fish trap door was open and there appeared to be a skull and torso-shape in sand on the door inside the trap Reviewing the 29-Dec video I noticed the torso shape in sand had a 90 degree angle and that the sand was supported from falling through the bottom of the trap, which was slightly excavated by currents. I proportioned out the distance from the top of the head, to shoulder, to that 90 degree angle and it was a match to Natalee's photo of her standing -head, to shoulder, to the end of her denim skirt. I showed TM the proportional match and the possibility of a skirt under the sand and he said he's going to tell the parents. I said definitely not until we sample the trap and get results. He made the call to Dave and Beth independently.

[Kermit]

Speaking of.......


http://www.citvasia.com/detailssynopsis.aspx?libId=336&sId=168&sTime=1200

Kyle's Words:

Louis is currently working with someone who I do not know to put together some documentary on the case, the way it was handled, and what happened during the search. I learned this from Tim T. yesterday.
 do not know how far along this documentary is. I have not had any part in it. In fact, I heard this documentary has distanced most everyone from Louis. Louis was sold on the idea that it will make him a lot of money.

Edit:  Noted Kyle's words.

[2NJSons_Mom]

I still want to know...if the cage was nothing...and the area has been mapped "for Natalee"...and there are 100+ targets....why are there not scuba divers diving to check the targets??  You don't need a bunch of equipment to dive...when you have figured out where to dive.  If the cage was nothing...where are the divers?  People go to scuba in Aruba all the time.   

Didn't Kyle say that only he was privy to those targets....even though Silvetti also mentioned them.  Seems the map designating them hasn't been handed out to the divers that be?

[nimrod]

Kyle:

oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #743 3/14 -
« Reply #709 on: March 18, 2008, 11:11:50 AM »

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2705.msg366289#msg366289

As of the 2nd week of Feb, this is what I had learned from the FBI:
The contents of the trap were being actively investigated.  The forensic results of a fabric sample showed the fabric sample was not a match to Natalee's blouse and that no DNA match to Natalee was found within that fabric sample.  Human remains were found, but the FBI was not and would not comment on the case.  The FBI did not comment on the remains, but rather the fabric sample.

Tim Miller:

12/30/2007
Tim Miller:  “In my years of searching we have seen several bodies, skeletal remains--I have seen my own daughter's skeletal remains.  I can’t help but believe at this moment that that is human remains in that crab trap.”

05/13/2008
Tim Miller:  "You know, we located something on December 29th, it was sent off to the lab. We still don’t know exactly what it was, all we know is there was a press conference that says the items that were found inside that crab trap did not match Natalee’s DNA.  Now, is that saying that we possibly found somebody else or what?  You know, we still don’t know."

Nimrod, This is why I feel the FBI has acknowledged remains in the trap.  DNA = remains

Thanks Lifesong, I interpret that to mean that the FBI never said it was or wasn't human remains...only Kyle said it. The DNA comment by Tim is confusing.