Natalee Case Discussion #806 3/9/09 - 3/12/09

[wreck]

I'm beginning to wonder if it's the old show from September 2008 rerun for the over seas market.  I don't see it here.

I really don't think so klaas.

The intro on that site talks about the search itself.

The original Kurtis program didn't go into the search at all.

It doesn't make sense to "premier" a new show in this case in Indonesia. There is no market for it. I agree it is odd though -- it apparently is a "Kurtis Production" -- not "Dateline". The C&I network only shows "repeats" as far as I can tell. They even show crime dramas such as "Crossing Jordan" and "Nash Bridges".

[wingnut]

I'm a little lost....lol....if Bill Kurtis had an exclusive...how did Dateline get involved??

Other than behind the scenes stuff ... Bill Kurtis' involvement did not get off the ground ... following the January 1, 2008 departure of Dateline.

It appears that September's special was only Part One.

I think I got that right.  Correct me if I am wrong Freebirds.

Janet

Somewhere and I don't know where I read it but Kyle says in a post in an answer to someone that They will have to wait until September for an answer...I wondered what He meant when He said wait until September...Does Anyone else remember Him posting this? 

I DO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

He threw September in our faces more times than I care to count.

That was another reason we were so sure it was that first Kurtis special in Sept that would contain this footage - after Kyle finally told us (in September) that Schaefer had sold it.

Thanks Jen.....This whole thing just gets sadder and sadder! 

YW hotping.

It really does, doesn't it?

And it just makes me sicker and sicker.  Just how many morbidly disgusting people are going to benefit financially from this tragic loss of life?

In looking back.................................Kyle wanted Natalee's Freebirds to put together a document with text and images for the "clear and concise" presentation of this information.

NOW I believe we were being used as pawns to help THEM make this a "blockbuster".

And apparently, used as pawns by Kurtis Productions as well! 

[jen3560]

I'm beginning to wonder if it's the old show from September 2008 rerun for the over seas market.  I don't see it here.

I really don't think so klaas.

The intro on that site talks about the search itself.

The original Kurtis program didn't go into the search at all.

It doesn't make sense to "premier" a new show in this case in Indonesia. There is no market for it. I agree it is odd though -- it apparently is a "Kurtis Production" -- not "Dateline". The C&I network only shows "repeats" as far as I can tell. They even show crime dramas such as "Crossing Jordan" and "Nash Bridges".

I agree - it's rather odd to air it first in Asia.  I wonder if that might have anything to do with US laws regarding evidence?

I really don't know..................just guessing here.

[BUCKSHOT]

Kurtis Productions
400 W. Erie
Suite 500
Chicago, IL 60610

Phone: 312-951-5700
Email: kpinfo@Kurtis.com
www.kurtis.com

[jen3560]

I'm a little lost....lol....if Bill Kurtis had an exclusive...how did Dateline get involved??

Other than behind the scenes stuff ... Bill Kurtis' involvement did not get off the ground ... following the January 1, 2008 departure of Dateline.

It appears that September's special was only Part One.

I think I got that right.  Correct me if I am wrong Freebirds.

Janet

Somewhere and I don't know where I read it but Kyle says in a post in an answer to someone that They will have to wait until September for an answer...I wondered what He meant when He said wait until September...Does Anyone else remember Him posting this? 

I DO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

He threw September in our faces more times than I care to count.

That was another reason we were so sure it was that first Kurtis special in Sept that would contain this footage - after Kyle finally told us (in September) that Schaefer had sold it.

Thanks Jen.....This whole thing just gets sadder and sadder! 

YW hotping.

It really does, doesn't it?

And it just makes me sicker and sicker.  Just how many morbidly disgusting people are going to benefit financially from this tragic loss of life?

In looking back.................................Kyle wanted Natalee's Freebirds to put together a document with text and images for the "clear and concise" presentation of this information.

NOW I believe we were being used as pawns to help THEM make this a "blockbuster".

And apparently, used as pawns by Kurtis Productions as well! 

Mmmmm.................I'm not so sure about that.  They stopped communicating with us right after their Aruba trip.  So they weren't getting info from us after their focus was trained on the search itself.

But who the hell knows......................I'm very interested to see what all this show contains.

Hopefully we can figure out a way to see it online.

[Magnolia]

I'm beginning to wonder if it's the old show from September 2008 rerun for the over seas market.  I don't see it here.

I really don't think so klaas.

The intro on that site talks about the search itself.

The original Kurtis program didn't go into the search at all.

It doesn't make sense to "premier" a new show in this case in Indonesia. There is no market for it. I agree it is odd though -- it apparently is a "Kurtis Production" -- not "Dateline". The C&I network only shows "repeats" as far as I can tell. They even show crime dramas such as "Crossing Jordan" and "Nash Bridges".

I think you are right. Wreck.
I believe that the program being promoted is the show that aired last September in the USA.

Good Morning to all.

[jen3560]

Kurtis Productions
400 W. Erie
Suite 500
Chicago, IL 60610

Phone: 312-951-5700
Email: kpinfo@Kurtis.com
www.kurtis.com

I'll do it.

I'm emailing now..................

[wingnut]

Remember how he said he had a film crew ready.

Why yes I do.

IIRC, that was also the time when he wanted a Freebird or two for interviewing purposes - when the time was right, of course.

Also IIRC, there was only one Freebird who was ready willing and able to take him up on that offer..................................

A freebird who just prior had been oh so concerned about his/her personal info potentially getting into Kyle's hands.

A freebird who wound up joining at CNG loooooooooong before he/she was no longer a member of our site.

Now Jen.  That is not very PC to bring that up.  If someone had a covert reason for jumping feet first into something they were hesitant about just days before to the point of appearing ultra paranoid about their personal information, they must have had a very valid reason and probably deserve a pat on the back for doing a complete 180 in order to further Kyle's Natalee's cause.

Just sayin'.

[jen3560]

I'm beginning to wonder if it's the old show from September 2008 rerun for the over seas market.  I don't see it here.

I really don't think so klaas.

The intro on that site talks about the search itself.

The original Kurtis program didn't go into the search at all.

It doesn't make sense to "premier" a new show in this case in Indonesia. There is no market for it. I agree it is odd though -- it apparently is a "Kurtis Production" -- not "Dateline". The C&I network only shows "repeats" as far as I can tell. They even show crime dramas such as "Crossing Jordan" and "Nash Bridges".

I think you are right. Wreck.
I believe that the program being promoted is the show that aired last September in the USA.

Good Morning to all.

I really don't think it is, Magnolia.  Here's the intro for last year's show:


On the last night of her high school graduation trip in May 2005, 18-year-old Natalee Holloway vanished on the island of Aruba. Now more than three years later, the questions surrounding what happened to the Alabama teen are still unanswered. 

In this A&E SPECIAL PRESENTATION: WHAT HAPPENED TO NATALEE HOLLOWAY?, Bill Kurtis examines the case and details the known facts and the current theories about the elusive mystery.  At one a.m. Natalee left the popular bar, Carlos and Charlie's, with three local men - Joran van der Sloot and brothers Deepak and Satish Kalpoe.  No one else has seen her since. 

Over the years, the three prime suspects have twice been arrested, questioned and released for lack of evidence.  Natalee's mother Beth staunchly pressured the Aruban authorities to press on to solve the case and bring those responsible to justice.  Her most devastating disappointment came when an undercover videotape surfaced in which Joran van der Sloot appeared to confess to knowing what happened that fateful night, but the judge said it wasn't enough and that prosecutors would need more proof to bring charges. 

Despite the extensive efforts of Natalee's mother, Beth, the case remains unsolved and Natalee remains missing.  Bill Kurtis interviews Beth Holloway about her unending ordeal, along with an Aruban prosecutor looking for the truth, an underwater crime scene expert searching for Natalee's remains, and a never-before-interviewed Aruban Police Detective who is still working the case.

Kurtis attempts to answer the lasting questions -- Why hasn't the case been solved?  Where did the investigation go wrong?  And will the Aruban authorities ever bring Natalee the justice she deserves?

WHAT HAPPENED TO NATALEE HOLLOWAY premieres September 18 at 11pm/3am ET and PT On A&E Television.
-------------

BTW - that "underwater crime scene expert" was no one connected with the Persistence.

Now, the intro for today's show is all about the water search..................including Bill saying he "documented the search".

[jen3560]

Remember how he said he had a film crew ready.

Why yes I do.

IIRC, that was also the time when he wanted a Freebird or two for interviewing purposes - when the time was right, of course.

Also IIRC, there was only one Freebird who was ready willing and able to take him up on that offer..................................

A freebird who just prior had been oh so concerned about his/her personal info potentially getting into Kyle's hands.

A freebird who wound up joining at CNG loooooooooong before he/she was no longer a member of our site.

Now Jen.  That is not very PC to bring that up.  If someone had a covert reason for jumping feet first into something they were hesitant about just days before to the point of appearing ultra paranoid about their personal information, they must have had a very valid reason and probably deserve a pat on the back for doing a complete 180 in order to further Kyle's Natalee's cause.

Just sayin'.

Oh wingnut, you are a gem - you know that?

Love you dear!!!  Hope you are feeling better this morning.

[Magnolia]

I'm beginning to wonder if it's the old show from September 2008 rerun for the over seas market.  I don't see it here.

I really don't think so klaas.

The intro on that site talks about the search itself.

The original Kurtis program didn't go into the search at all.

It doesn't make sense to "premier" a new show in this case in Indonesia. There is no market for it. I agree it is odd though -- it apparently is a "Kurtis Production" -- not "Dateline". The C&I network only shows "repeats" as far as I can tell. They even show crime dramas such as "Crossing Jordan" and "Nash Bridges".

I think you are right. Wreck.
I believe that the program being promoted is the show that aired last September in the USA.

Good Morning to all.

I really don't think it is, Magnolia.  Here's the intro for last year's show:


On the last night of her high school graduation trip in May 2005, 18-year-old Natalee Holloway vanished on the island of Aruba. Now more than three years later, the questions surrounding what happened to the Alabama teen are still unanswered. 

In this A&E SPECIAL PRESENTATION: WHAT HAPPENED TO NATALEE HOLLOWAY?, Bill Kurtis examines the case and details the known facts and the current theories about the elusive mystery.  At one a.m. Natalee left the popular bar, Carlos and Charlie's, with three local men - Joran van der Sloot and brothers Deepak and Satish Kalpoe.  No one else has seen her since. 

Over the years, the three prime suspects have twice been arrested, questioned and released for lack of evidence.  Natalee's mother Beth staunchly pressured the Aruban authorities to press on to solve the case and bring those responsible to justice.  Her most devastating disappointment came when an undercover videotape surfaced in which Joran van der Sloot appeared to confess to knowing what happened that fateful night, but the judge said it wasn't enough and that prosecutors would need more proof to bring charges. 

Despite the extensive efforts of Natalee's mother, Beth, the case remains unsolved and Natalee remains missing.  Bill Kurtis interviews Beth Holloway about her unending ordeal, along with an Aruban prosecutor looking for the truth, an underwater crime scene expert searching for Natalee's remains, and a never-before-interviewed Aruban Police Detective who is still working the case.

Kurtis attempts to answer the lasting questions -- Why hasn't the case been solved?  Where did the investigation go wrong?  And will the Aruban authorities ever bring Natalee the justice she deserves?

WHAT HAPPENED TO NATALEE HOLLOWAY premieres September 18 at 11pm/3am ET and PT On A&E Television.
-------------

BTW - that "underwater crime scene expert" was no one connected with the Persistence.

Now, the intro for today's show is all about the water search..................including Bill saying he "documented the search".

You are right, of course.

I have read and read this morning trying to figure if they are one in the same.
But why show it in the Asian market first? 

[jen3560]

I'm beginning to wonder if it's the old show from September 2008 rerun for the over seas market.  I don't see it here.

I really don't think so klaas.

The intro on that site talks about the search itself.

The original Kurtis program didn't go into the search at all.

It doesn't make sense to "premier" a new show in this case in Indonesia. There is no market for it. I agree it is odd though -- it apparently is a "Kurtis Production" -- not "Dateline". The C&I network only shows "repeats" as far as I can tell. They even show crime dramas such as "Crossing Jordan" and "Nash Bridges".

I think you are right. Wreck.
I believe that the program being promoted is the show that aired last September in the USA.

Good Morning to all.

I really don't think it is, Magnolia.  Here's the intro for last year's show:


On the last night of her high school graduation trip in May 2005, 18-year-old Natalee Holloway vanished on the island of Aruba. Now more than three years later, the questions surrounding what happened to the Alabama teen are still unanswered. 

In this A&E SPECIAL PRESENTATION: WHAT HAPPENED TO NATALEE HOLLOWAY?, Bill Kurtis examines the case and details the known facts and the current theories about the elusive mystery.  At one a.m. Natalee left the popular bar, Carlos and Charlie's, with three local men - Joran van der Sloot and brothers Deepak and Satish Kalpoe.  No one else has seen her since. 

Over the years, the three prime suspects have twice been arrested, questioned and released for lack of evidence.  Natalee's mother Beth staunchly pressured the Aruban authorities to press on to solve the case and bring those responsible to justice.  Her most devastating disappointment came when an undercover videotape surfaced in which Joran van der Sloot appeared to confess to knowing what happened that fateful night, but the judge said it wasn't enough and that prosecutors would need more proof to bring charges. 

Despite the extensive efforts of Natalee's mother, Beth, the case remains unsolved and Natalee remains missing.  Bill Kurtis interviews Beth Holloway about her unending ordeal, along with an Aruban prosecutor looking for the truth, an underwater crime scene expert searching for Natalee's remains, and a never-before-interviewed Aruban Police Detective who is still working the case.

Kurtis attempts to answer the lasting questions -- Why hasn't the case been solved?  Where did the investigation go wrong?  And will the Aruban authorities ever bring Natalee the justice she deserves?

WHAT HAPPENED TO NATALEE HOLLOWAY premieres September 18 at 11pm/3am ET and PT On A&E Television.
-------------

BTW - that "underwater crime scene expert" was no one connected with the Persistence.

Now, the intro for today's show is all about the water search..................including Bill saying he "documented the search".

You are right, of course.

I have read and read this morning trying to figure if they are one in the same.
But why show it in the Asian market first? 

I have not a clue.  My only guess, like I posted to wreck above..................maybe the reasons have something to do with US laws regarding evidence?

[jen3560]

I emailed Kurtis Productions asking where/if a US viewer can watch this new show today.

I'll be sure to post any response I get.

[Magnolia]

I had a friend whose father was murdered when we were in high school.
True Crime magazines picked up on the story and published grizzly crime
scene photographs without the family's knowledge.
My friend's family worked hard to get legislation passed that would prohibit
showing graphic crime scene pictures without the victim's familys permission.

[Lifesong]

Just curious...
Where does this leave Tim Miller(a crew member?)?
Anyone???

(1) Off the boat?
(2) On the boat?

Kicked off the boat on December 20th by Silvetti.

Was Tim Miller kicked off the boat by John Silvetti or ... was he convinced to follow another lead.  If he was kicked off the boat ... I cannot comprehend why there is an ongoing professional connection between these two men.

Janet

+++++

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman:   After the Dec 30th dive John [Silvetti] didn't want Tim Miller on board the Persistence because he said Tim wasn't necessary any more and was a liability. I don't know what that exactly means, but Tim wasn't hurting anything except releasing the statements to the press and Holloways that we found Natalee.

Kyle Kingman: He (Tim Miller) stepped off on or about the 1st of Jan to follow up on the false lead in Costa Rica IIRC.

Kyle Kingman:  I hadn't slept in 48 hours. I crashed for a few hours rest and by the time I got up Dateline and Tim Miller had left the boat. That is when John [Silvetti] assumed full control over the remainder of the project and had us searching in the deepest portions of our search area which coincided with Richardson's remarks. Richardson told us after the Jan-7th dive to keep searching in deep water.

I have to ask....

I know we have Silvetti's "liability" remark.

Do you have anything else on Tim Miller's departure from the ship on 12/30?  iirc, Kyle's other quote that we have has him asleep when it happened, and evidently never even asking anyone else onboard wth happened...at least no mention of it.

I know Kyle got the skinny on that deal...did he spill it?

[wingnut]

Oh wingnut, you are a gem - you know that?

Love you dear!!!  Hope you are feeling better this morning.

I am!  I actually have somewhat of a voice today! 

[wreck]

But jen, why does the promo say this at the end?:

WHAT HAPPENED TO NATALEE HOLLOWAY premieres September 18 at 11pm/3am ET and PT On A&E Television.

[Lifesong]

I'm beginning to wonder if it's the old show from September 2008 rerun for the over seas market.  I don't see it here.

I really don't think so klaas.

The intro on that site talks about the search itself.

The original Kurtis program didn't go into the search at all.

It doesn't make sense to "premier" a new show in this case in Indonesia. There is no market for it. I agree it is odd though -- it apparently is a "Kurtis Production" -- not "Dateline". The C&I network only shows "repeats" as far as I can tell. They even show crime dramas such as "Crossing Jordan" and "Nash Bridges".

I think you are right. Wreck.
I believe that the program being promoted is the show that aired last September in the USA.

Good Morning to all.

I really don't think it is, Magnolia.  Here's the intro for last year's show:


On the last night of her high school graduation trip in May 2005, 18-year-old Natalee Holloway vanished on the island of Aruba. Now more than three years later, the questions surrounding what happened to the Alabama teen are still unanswered. 

In this A&E SPECIAL PRESENTATION: WHAT HAPPENED TO NATALEE HOLLOWAY?, Bill Kurtis examines the case and details the known facts and the current theories about the elusive mystery.  At one a.m. Natalee left the popular bar, Carlos and Charlie's, with three local men - Joran van der Sloot and brothers Deepak and Satish Kalpoe.  No one else has seen her since. 

Over the years, the three prime suspects have twice been arrested, questioned and released for lack of evidence.  Natalee's mother Beth staunchly pressured the Aruban authorities to press on to solve the case and bring those responsible to justice.  Her most devastating disappointment came when an undercover videotape surfaced in which Joran van der Sloot appeared to confess to knowing what happened that fateful night, but the judge said it wasn't enough and that prosecutors would need more proof to bring charges. 

Despite the extensive efforts of Natalee's mother, Beth, the case remains unsolved and Natalee remains missing.  Bill Kurtis interviews Beth Holloway about her unending ordeal, along with an Aruban prosecutor looking for the truth, an underwater crime scene expert searching for Natalee's remains, and a never-before-interviewed Aruban Police Detective who is still working the case.

Kurtis attempts to answer the lasting questions -- Why hasn't the case been solved?  Where did the investigation go wrong?  And will the Aruban authorities ever bring Natalee the justice she deserves?

WHAT HAPPENED TO NATALEE HOLLOWAY premieres September 18 at 11pm/3am ET and PT On A&E Television.
-------------

BTW - that "underwater crime scene expert" was no one connected with the Persistence.

Now, the intro for today's show is all about the water search..................including Bill saying he "documented the search".

I agree with Jen - this is a different show.  First thing I did last night after Kermit posted Louis' quote under the screenshot Klaas had posted (and I realized what the heck was going on.. ) was check out and compare the descriptions. 

[jen3560]

I have to ask....

I know we have Silvetti's "liability" remark.

Do you have anything else on Tim Miller's departure from the ship on 12/30?  iirc, Kyle's other quote that we have has him asleep when it happened, and evidently never even asking anyone else onboard wth happened...at least no mention of it.

I know Kyle got the skinny on that deal...did he spill it?

This is the most detail we got from him.  My post is first, followed by his response:


Hey Kyle, I have a question.

I know you've never told us the reason that Tim Miller was no longer welcome onboard the Persistence.

I'm just wondering if that timing coincided with Silvetti's sudden lack of interest in that trap and its contents?

The timing seems about right, from what we've been able to piece together.

Did John and Tim have the same difference of opinion that you and John had?

Haven't seen you here for a bit Kyle - hope everything is going well for you. 
-----------------


You're correct. This occurred on Dec 30th when the Arubans told us there wasn't anything of interest in the trap based on the visual-only inspection (Dateline and Tim Miller present). After the Dec 30th dive John didn't want Tim Miller on board the Persistence because he said Tim wasn't necessary any more and was a liability. I don't know what that exactly means, but Tim wasn't hurting anything except releasing the statements to the press and Holloways that we found Natalee. Although likely true, it was premature and should have been replaced with action- seeing that the evidence was collected and handled properly.

I know Tim believed me and was convinced 100% which is why he went and told Dave that we found Natalee on Dec 29th. John stood back and waited and worked with the Aruban Polis to arrange the next dive -Dec 30th's which was the visual-only dive.

On the night of the 30th (I believe this was Tim's last night on the Persistence) I approached Tim and proposed some ideas to him. I suggested that we shouldn't take the Aruban Polis divers at their word and proceed with planning a recovery of the trap. Also, I proposed the trap site may not be pristine or the Polis may have already knew about it. This statement was backed up by several comments we heard, behavior we observed, and other things. Tim told me he thought I was right but didn't know what to do about it. I hadn't slept in 48 hours. I crashed for a few hours rest and by the time I got up Dateline and Tim Miller had left the boat. That is when John assumed full control over the remainder of the project and had us searching in the deepest portions of our search area which coincided with Richardson's remarks. Richardson told us after the Jan-7th dive to keep searching in deep water. John told me then he didn't want to hear me ever mention the trap again. Of course this didn't set well with me. After the Jan 7th Dive I got off the boat for R&R from the 9th-14th at the Holiday Inn. Remember after the Jan-7th dive which sampled the trap Richardson told John emphatically to "keep searching she's still out there in the deep ocean". Meanwhile I'm standing on the beach watching the Dutch Coast Guard at the trap site for 42 and 45 minutes respectively over two days (11-12th). When I got back to the Hotel on the 11th and 12th after seeing the coasties out there I told John. He didn't want to hear it and didn't believe it. However, a couple weeks later he told me he looked into it by talking to Richardson who said "...not to worry, the Coast Guard doesn't have dive capabilities".

I am leaving tonight to head into the North Sea. I'll be gone for a while but I'll be in touch.
~Kyle

[Lifesong]

But jen, why does the promo say this at the end?:

WHAT HAPPENED TO NATALEE HOLLOWAY premieres September 18 at 11pm/3am ET and PT On A&E Television.

http://www.citvasia.com/detailssynopsis.aspx?libId=336&sId=168&sTime=1200

Wreck - where do you see that?  I'm missing it if it's there....