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Author Topic: Making America Competitive, Boosting the Economy Through Education  (Read 2540 times)
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oldiebutgoodie
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« on: March 10, 2009, 05:30:16 PM »

Can education make a difference not only in an individual's life but also for an entire nation? This is an excerpt from an interesting article that discusses the issue:
Quote
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President Barack Obama on Tuesday proposed lengthening the school year and paying top teachers more as part of an effort to help U.S. students regain an edge in the competitive world economy.

The United States has one of the worst high school dropout rates in the industrialized world, and its students regularly rank far below those in other Western countries in reading and math scores.

Slightly more than half of the population has only a high school diploma. One out of every two American university students drops out before completing their post-secondary studies.

"Despite resources that are unmatched anywhere in the world, we have let our grades slip, our schools crumble, our teacher quality fall short and other nations outpace us," Obama told the U.S. Hispanic Chamber of Commerce.

"The future belongs to the nation that best educates its citizens, and my fellow Americans, we have everything we need to be that nation," he added.

The U.S. leader painted the education drive as part of a broader push to promote economic growth in the face of a deep recession and the nation's worst financial crisis in decades.

His plan includes a focus on "cradle to career" learning and expansion of early childhood education programs, which received $5 billion in funding in the $787 billion economic stimulus package recently approved by Congress.

[...]

Obama called for steps to ensure all Americans received a comprehensive education that followed them from infancy through the job market and ensured that they were competitive in the changing global economy.

"In a 21st century world where jobs can be shipped wherever there's an internet connection, where a child born in Dallas is competing with children in Delhi ... education is no longer just a pathway to opportunity and success, it is a prerequisite," he said.
 
READ THE FULL ARTICLE HERE

Do you agree with President Obama about the important role education must play in our country's future?

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nonesuche
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« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2009, 10:40:15 PM »

the article is based upon a good premise, education is critically important from cradle to grave and I would agree with Obama regarding that.

However, when you get to this quote he loses me:

"In a 21st century world where jobs can be shipped wherever there's an internet connection, where a child born in Dallas is competing with children in Delhi ... education is no longer just a pathway to opportunity and success, it is a prerequisite," he said.

That is patently false for global outsourcing isn't driven by education or skills or lack thereof. Outsourcing occurs in companies for two reasons, to focus on core competencies and products, and COST, the latter being the larger motivator. COST is the driver, not an educational level which for the record, the US has a higher percentage of college grads than most modern countries?

This isn't the first time Obama has utilized this bait and switch routine, stating clear unadulterated lies in order to garner buy-in for the ObamaPelosi agenda.






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WhiskeyGirl
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« Reply #2 on: March 12, 2009, 09:03:12 PM »

Does a garment worker need a college education?  Shoe industry worker?  Printer?  There are many poorly and uneducated workers that have lost their jobs over the years.

Also, from my reading, the HOT jobs for outsourcing include IT, accounting, paralegal, customer service, and any number of back office jobs. 

Americans making minimum wage of $7 or so an hour cannot compete with jobs that pay $5 a day.  The American business burdened with high taxes and benefit expenses, cannot compete with businesses that do not have a similar burden.

jmho
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WhiskeyGirl
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« Reply #3 on: March 12, 2009, 09:13:57 PM »

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Most companies outsource parts of their non-core operations to cut costs, remain competitive and offer good value to shareholders for their investments. All this becomes far more important when there is recession. Simple economics suggests that one should further cut costs when the going is bad. If American companies wish to remain afloat in these bad times, perhaps it is prudent to outsource more rather than do the reverse and add to costs. It is likely that corporations will outsource more and more of their business processes to India or elsewhere as the recession deepens.

Corporations do not have the same interests in keeping jobs in America as unemployed Americans do.  Corporations are after profits.  If bailout money is going to stimulate American, I think it should go to companies that employ Americans, in America.  Not 'American' companies that export jobs to other countries.   How many Wall St. and TARP entities have outsourced their call centers, IT, and other functions?  Do they make their money in the countries to which they have outsourced jobs?  Or, in America? 

Quote
There are other reasons, too, why offshoring makes economic sense to America. For every dollar spent on outsourcing, the US economy receives $1.12 to $1.14 in return, according to estimates made by McKinsey a few years ago. Outsourcing results in far more indirect benefits than direct cost savings to corporations. As head of an Indian information technology firms had said famously that “we use American hardware, software and networking devices; young people who work in our companies buy all American labels – shoes, jeans, watches – see American movies, eat at McDonald, Pizza Hut and Papa John, drink Pepsi and Coke. All this leads to growth of American corporations and that country’s economy.”

Where is the benefit to American workers?  Jobs for Americans?  Are the McDonalds, Pizza Hut and other products made in America?  It seems like only the RICH corporation make money on free trade and outsources.  Nothing for the little people.

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2009%5C03%5C12%5Cstory_12-3-2009_pg3_5

I would like to see Obama explain to the American people why highly educated people in America have been losing their jobs, highly educated recent college graduates cannot find jobs, and how any of these can live on $5 a day?  Anyone in India giving an American a chance at a job?
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WhiskeyGirl
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« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2009, 09:23:12 PM »

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South Asian expert Mahendra Ved says outsourcing is beneficial to both countries. “I think it is more than established that the outsourcing is to mutual advantage to both American and Indian economies.” 

Not everyone in the United States agrees, including many of the more than 2.5 million Indian Americans. Jagdish Jassal, a retired official of the World Bank, says outsourcing should take place only after the jobs of Americans are secured.

“I don’t think it is any protectionism because the need arises because of United States’ own problems. They have lost about four million jobs. It is hurting Americans. And an American president or American administration has to take care of its own citizens first,” says Mr. Jassal. “The Indians cannot blame the US for it. If Indians were in the same situation, what would they do? Indians wouldn’t like to outsource their own jobs overseas. First claim on these jobs here (in America) is of US taxpayers.”

Wow.

Quote
Around one million Indians work in the outsourcing sector. They are worried that the worsening global economy will adversally effect the fastest-growing


Jobs are also outsourced to a number of countries.  How many could be done at home in the US?  Share our success?   Suppored our shared values?

http://www.voanews.com/english/NewsAnalysis/2009-03-04-voa59.cfm
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WhiskeyGirl
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« Reply #5 on: March 12, 2009, 10:16:40 PM »

Something other than drop out rate at work?

"Literacy"

American Education Stats (#27 on list) -

Average years of schooling of adults  12
Duration of compulsory education  12 years
Expenditure per student, primary > % of GDP per capita  21.51 %    [21st of 101] 
Expenditure per student, secondary > % of GDP per capita 
Pupil-teacher ratio, primary  14.21    [121st of 159] 
Pupils-teacher ratio > primary level  15.4  [144th of 175] 
Pupils-teacher ratio > secondary level  14.9


http://www.nationmaster.com/country/us-united-states/edu-education


How many nations educate the special needs population?  Those with mild or sever disabilities?  From memory, I believe the US is one nation that invests in all children.  Maybe that will change under Obama?


India Education Stats (#174 on list) -

Average years of schooling of adults  5.1
Duration of compulsory education  8 years
Public spending per student > Primary level  7.2  [107th of 126] 
Education spending (% of GDP)  4.1%  [82nd of 132] 
Education spending (% of total government expenditure)  12.7%
Pupil-teacher ratio, primary  40.2 


http://www.nationmaster.com/country/in-india/edu-education


Highly educated Indians seem to have an average of 5.1 years of education compared to Americans with an average of 12 years.

What statistics/studies is Obama using in his speeches?  "Apples to Apples"?  Or "Apples to Oranges"?
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WhiskeyGirl
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« Reply #6 on: March 12, 2009, 10:25:07 PM »

Quote
The failure part
In his essay on Social Infrastructure As Important As Physical Infrastructure published in India Development Report 2002, Kirit S. Parikh had pointed out, “With a literacy rate of 65, we have 296 million illiterates, age seven years and above, as per the 2001 census. The number of illiterates today exceeds the population of the country of around 270 million at Independence, age seven and above.” The largest segment of the world’s illiterates is in India.

Quote
...absenteeism of comparatively well-paid teachers, particularly where bulk of the students come from scheduled castes and tribes, poses a major problem. Students are circumstantially forced to go in for private tuitions. He concludes, “Sometimes the very institutions that were created to overcome disparities and barriers have tended to act as reactionary influences in reinforcing inequality… The teachers’ unions, which have a very positive role to play in protecting the interests of teachers and have played that part well in the past, are often turning into an influence that reinforces the neglect of the interests of children from desperately underprivileged families. There is evidence of hardening of class barriers that separate the newly affluent teachers from the impoverished rural poor.”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Literacy_in_India

Quote
...Most children never attend secondary schools.[1] An optimistic estimate is that only one in five job-seekers in India has ever had any sort of vocational training.[2]

Not a single Indian university was in the top 300 of Academic Ranking of World Universities in 2006.[3] However, five Indian Institutes of Technology were listed among the top 10 science and technology schools in Asia by Asiaweek.[4] The Indian School of Business was ranked number 15 in global MBA rankings by the Financial Times of London in 2009[5] while the All India Institute of Medical Sciences has been recognized as a global leader in medical research and treatment.[6]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_India

Will throwing more money at American science, universities, education, and students make a difference?  Bring jobs to America? 

The interests of workers in America seem to be apples to oranges with what some call 'American business' and 'American Government'.


jmho
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WhiskeyGirl
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« Reply #7 on: March 12, 2009, 10:28:28 PM »

100,000 fake certificates found in Bihar

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The absence of industries and other business opportunities forces young men and women in Bihar to apply for jobs in government-run schools and also resort to fake certificates.

Last month, the state government had blacklisted 75 B.Ed institutions in India and Nepal to check irregularities in the appointment of school teachers.

In December, the government sacked 15,000 teachers for submitting fake degrees and certificates. The sacked teachers had been appointed last year as part of the first phase of the recruitment drive.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/StoryPage.aspx?sectionName=&id=9dc2ff8a-268d-44e1-9737-a42efeb5da9d&MatchID1=4924&TeamID1=4&TeamID2=2&MatchType1=1&SeriesID1=1244&PrimaryID=4924&Headline=100%2c000+fake+certificates+found+in+Bihar
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WhiskeyGirl
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« Reply #8 on: March 12, 2009, 10:32:30 PM »

Mere 25% graduates in India are employable: Mercer ConsultingHigh wage cost, increasing attrition levels and decreasing employee loyalty is going to lead to an acute shortage of employable graduates in the coming years

Quote
New Delhi: The trend of rising salaries amongst Indian companies is proving to be a threat to India’s competitive advantage, according to K N Memani, chairman of the American Chamber of Commerce at their annual HR conference on executive remuneration and employee attraction held in New Delhi earlier this week.

...a mere 25% of graduates that India produces every year is actually employable.

http://www.livemint.com/2008/02/21182309/Mere-25-graduates-in-India-ar.html
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WhiskeyGirl
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« Reply #9 on: March 12, 2009, 10:37:46 PM »

Contrast with...amazing results in the healthcare sector for $1 dollar...

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Several hundred poor and middle-class Indians are awaiting screening for dengue fever, a mos-quito-borne disease that has reached near-epidemic proportions in Delhi this fall. Sick and frightened, they lie on straw mats and blankets spread over the pavement in a queue that streams around the ambulance drive and out to the main road. Inside, doctors in the All India Institute of Medical Sciences, or AIIMS, are working to fight off the outbreak of the sometimes deadly virus...

This is what it takes to be India's best public hospital. Last year the government-run hospital, with about 2,000 beds, treated 3.5 million people, achieving mortality and infection rates comparable to the best facilities in the developed world--for fees that come to about $1 a day for inpatients.

AIIMS can do this because of government funding of about $100 million a year. Because it doesn't waste much cash on amenities, it can afford to buy cutting-edge equipment...

http://www.newsweek.com/id/45114

In the US, IIRC, the Obama budget is billions...for a downpayment.   
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nonesuche
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« Reply #10 on: March 14, 2009, 06:12:02 AM »

WG - you've done quite a bit of really valid research on this thread. Outsourcing is to great degree a fallacy when it comes to true cost/benefits. The Indian education is very niched and narrow as well, often why it's difficult for deeply technical personnel to move into management, for that broad base of skill required for management is a real reach for some.

Even bellwethers like McKinsey are in the business to make money, that is the goal of consulting and so having their stamp of approval really in this instance means it's a revenue stream they are vested within.

As the dollar continues to decline in the world market, so will the primary benefit from outsourcing which is pure salary differentials.

If readers here have not seen Slumdog Millionaire you need to, would that exist in the US? It might soon if we don't stop allowing growing job losses.
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