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Author Topic: Natalee Case Discussion #807 3/12/09 - 3/17/09am  (Read 216729 times)
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wreck
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« Reply #340 on: March 14, 2009, 02:44:20 PM »

Why did Kyle say the FBI was uninvited if there was "someone from Quantico" on board.  This seems a revision of his previous statement.  Quantico is a Marine base adjacent to Washington, D.C.  The FBI Academy is located there, firing ranges and some of the forensic labs.  I doubt agents are dispatched from that location.  Headquarters or field offices would seem more likely.



International training exercise, or practicum? 

http://www.fbi.gov/hq/td/academy/itp/itp.htm

********

I agree with you, and would not expect a student to be sent without a supervisor to evaluate, just from my educational experience. 
 

I find it interesting that she always refers to an "agent from Quantico".....never an FBI agent.
Didn't several of the Aruban police force take some training at Quantico?
Dompig trained at Quantico. 
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texasmom
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« Reply #341 on: March 14, 2009, 02:45:47 PM »



Thanks Hotping!  And thank your son for us too!   
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I stand with the girl, Natalee Holloway.

"I can look back over the past 10 years and there were no steps wasted, and there are no regrets,'' she said. "I did all I knew to do and I think that gives me greater peace now." "I've lived every parent's worst nightmare and I'm the parent that nobody wants to be," she said.

Beth Holloway, 2015 interview with Greta van Susteren
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« Reply #342 on: March 14, 2009, 02:48:44 PM »

Why did Kyle say the FBI was uninvited if there was "someone from Quantico" on board.  This seems a revision of his previous statement.  Quantico is a Marine base adjacent to Washington, D.C.  The FBI Academy is located there, firing ranges and some of the forensic labs.  I doubt agents are dispatched from that location.  Headquarters or field offices would seem more likely.



International training exercise, or practicum? 

http://www.fbi.gov/hq/td/academy/itp/itp.htm

********

I agree with you, and would not expect a student to be sent without a supervisor to evaluate, just from my educational experience. 
 

I find it interesting that she always refers to an "agent from Quantico".....never an FBI agent.
Didn't several of the Aruban police force take some training at Quantico?

Great Catch!!

Magnolia ... Lou is deceptively giving the impression there was an official American observr on board the Persistence representing the cause of justice for Natalee.  In other words ... if the guy from Quantico says there was nothing case related in the trap then ... there was nothing case related in the trap.

It does not seem to concern Lou that according to Kyle Kingman's own words ... the remains of Natalee Holloway could possibly have been in that trap and ... only the Arubans ... whether or not they were trained at Quantico ... took an active participation in the visual and recovery dives.

Lou ... I do not understand where you are coming from.  Natalee Holloway and her family should take priority over protecting Kyle Kingman and John Silvetti.

Janet

 
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San
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« Reply #343 on: March 14, 2009, 02:52:35 PM »

Part of ldstlou's post at GM.  My thoughts in red:

Kyle told me that if there had been evidence in the cage that was related to Natalee, then Dateline would not have been able to show the footage because it would have been evidence in an ongoing investigation. When the divers came up after the Dec 30th dive with the thumbs down sign, there was an agent from Quantico on the boat. Someone from Dateline had asked the agent if there was any evidence related to Natalee and the Quantico agent then told him no which gave Dateline legally, the right to use the footage in their show. So it was the Quantico agent who said there was no evidence in the cage related to Natalee. If there had been evidence related to Natalee's case, Dateline would NOT have been able to show it. (Really?? the Quantico agent could tell right away WITHOUT TESTING that nothing in the cage pertained to Natalee or Joran?  BS, pure BS and you can't possibly believe this))

Next Kyle told me, that indeed Schaefer had planned on doing a documentary on the search. When they found out that Dateline was going to air the footage before they had a chance to sell their documentary, they contacted the FBI to try and get it stopped. I believe that the FBI then called Dateline and said they could not show all of the footage of the dive. This is my understanding of what happened after talking to Kyle. ((Again, I call BS.  Dateline was part of the search from the very beginning starting with shots taken at the dock in LA.  You trying to tell me that Dateline pulled a fast one on all of them?))

I just am not one who believes in a conspiracy theory or any wrong doing in Schaefer wanting to do a documentary of the search for Natalee. They were usurped by Dateline who originally was doing a show on Tim and TES, but who changed the theme of their show to the Persistence and the search before they had a buyer for their own documentary. I also don't believe Schaefer would have made a "lot of money" on the documentary, I believe he was trying to recoup some of the money he had put into the search.

Logic dictates, that IF they had found Natalee in the cage, THEN they certainly would have made a lot of money selling the footage. What is the point in hiding the fact that they found Natalee...there is none!!!  ((There is no logic dictating what you post, only emotion))

I'll likely have more to say after I wake up 


Maybe the Agent said no to get the footage released.  If he said yes they couldn't use the footage.  Did the FBI agent lie on purpose so the world would see what the Aruban's were up to.  Something was in the cage whether it was Natalee or not.

Quote
When the divers came up after the Dec 30th dive with the thumbs down sign, there was an agent from Quantico on the boat. Someone from Dateline had asked the agent if there was any evidence related to Natalee and the Quantico agent then told him no which gave Dateline legally, the right to use the footage in their show.

Also, I believe HotShot said there was a corrupt FBI agent on the dive.

Quote by HotShot:

Quote
His own words WERE taken out of context, and yes there was an FBI guy he was working with.  He has been taken off the case, and he was as corrupt as the Arubans.


Why would you call the FBI to try and have it stopped.  Wouldn't this be a matter for the courts.

Quote
Next Kyle told me, that indeed Schaefer had planned on doing a documentary on the search. When they found out that Dateline was going to air the footage before they had a chance to sell their documentary, they contacted the FBI to try and get it stopped.
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« Reply #344 on: March 14, 2009, 02:54:21 PM »

YW TM......And My Son says no problem and YW....

About The Quantico thing seems like I remember Hotshit or Lou saying something like the FBI agent that Kyle was working with turned out to be crooked or something....Does Anybody Else remember this..... 
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May 2010 Bring Natalee Home to Rest In Peace!
Magnolia
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« Reply #345 on: March 14, 2009, 03:02:24 PM »

YW TM......And My Son says no problem and YW....

About The Quantico thing seems like I remember Hotshit or Lou saying something like the FBI agent that Kyle was working with turned out to be crooked or something....Does Anybody Else remember this..... 

Dennis Shipley is the only FBI agent I have seen mentioned regarding the Persistence.
I have never seen anything that said he was aboard the ship.
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« Reply #346 on: March 14, 2009, 03:03:14 PM »

Why did Kyle say the FBI was uninvited if there was "someone from Quantico" on board.  This seems a revision of his previous statement.  Quantico is a Marine base adjacent to Washington, D.C.  The FBI Academy is located there, firing ranges and some of the forensic labs.  I doubt agents are dispatched from that location.  Headquarters or field offices would seem more likely.



International training exercise, or practicum? 

http://www.fbi.gov/hq/td/academy/itp/itp.htm

********

I agree with you, and would not expect a student to be sent without a supervisor to evaluate, just from my educational experience. 
 

I find it interesting that she always refers to an "agent from Quantico".....never an FBI agent.
Didn't several of the Aruban police force take some training at Quantico?

Yes, we were told repeatedly that many of the Arubans had trained at Quantico.  I believe Dompig even brags about that.  Might be in the interview where he is upset that Beth does not seem adequately impressed with him as a man to suit him.

This "Quantico agent" is a contention added long after the fact and I do believe one of convenience as earlier Kyle said they were uninvited.  Only when needed does the presence of one appear.  And one with magic vision similar to that of Tim Trahan in that it only takes a visual to know if remains are present.  Maybe he could also map DNA at a glance as well?

Would be laughable if not for the fact that someone's remains are at stake.  And I just know the FBI has agents hanging around on boats for months at the time.  But those remains are just what was at stake and therefore this is very dire undertakings.  Not to be glibbly sold to whomever they could get on board to film, etc.

 

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« Reply #347 on: March 14, 2009, 03:04:54 PM »

Part of ldstlou's post at GM.  My thoughts in red:

Kyle told me that if there had been evidence in the cage that was related to Natalee, then Dateline would not have been able to show the footage because it would have been evidence in an ongoing investigation. When the divers came up after the Dec 30th dive with the thumbs down sign, there was an agent from Quantico on the boat. Someone from Dateline had asked the agent if there was any evidence related to Natalee and the Quantico agent then told him no which gave Dateline legally, the right to use the footage in their show. So it was the Quantico agent who said there was no evidence in the cage related to Natalee. If there had been evidence related to Natalee's case, Dateline would NOT have been able to show it. (Really?? the Quantico agent could tell right away WITHOUT TESTING that nothing in the cage pertained to Natalee or Joran?  BS, pure BS and you can't possibly believe this))

Next Kyle told me, that indeed Schaefer had planned on doing a documentary on the search. When they found out that Dateline was going to air the footage before they had a chance to sell their documentary, they contacted the FBI to try and get it stopped. I believe that the FBI then called Dateline and said they could not show all of the footage of the dive. This is my understanding of what happened after talking to Kyle. ((Again, I call BS.  Dateline was part of the search from the very beginning starting with shots taken at the dock in LA.  You trying to tell me that Dateline pulled a fast one on all of them?))

I just am not one who believes in a conspiracy theory or any wrong doing in Schaefer wanting to do a documentary of the search for Natalee. They were usurped by Dateline who originally was doing a show on Tim and TES, but who changed the theme of their show to the Persistence and the search before they had a buyer for their own documentary. I also don't believe Schaefer would have made a "lot of money" on the documentary, I believe he was trying to recoup some of the money he had put into the search.

Logic dictates, that IF they had found Natalee in the cage, THEN they certainly would have made a lot of money selling the footage. What is the point in hiding the fact that they found Natalee...there is none!!!  ((There is no logic dictating what you post, only emotion))

I'll likely have more to say after I wake up 


Maybe the Agent said no to get the footage released.  If he said yes they couldn't use the footage.  Did the FBI agent lie on purpose so the world would see what the Aruban's were up to.  Something was in the cage whether it was Natalee or not.

Quote
When the divers came up after the Dec 30th dive with the thumbs down sign, there was an agent from Quantico on the boat. Someone from Dateline had asked the agent if there was any evidence related to Natalee and the Quantico agent then told him no which gave Dateline legally, the right to use the footage in their show.

Also, I believe HotShot said there was a corrupt FBI agent on the dive.

Quote by HotShot:

Quote
His own words WERE taken out of context, and yes there was an FBI guy he was working with.  He has been taken off the case, and he was as corrupt as the Arubans.


Why would you call the FBI to try and have it stopped.  Wouldn't this be a matter for the courts.

Quote
Next Kyle told me, that indeed Schaefer had planned on doing a documentary on the search. When they found out that Dateline was going to air the footage before they had a chance to sell their documentary, they contacted the FBI to try and get it stopped.
Yes San Your Quote above by Hotshot is what I was thinking of...Thank You...
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texasmom
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« Reply #348 on: March 14, 2009, 03:07:51 PM »

YW TM......And My Son says no problem and YW....

About The Quantico thing seems like I remember Hotshit or Lou saying something like the FBI agent that Kyle was working with turned out to be crooked or something....Does Anybody Else remember this..... 

Yes!  I'm thinking he was supposedly from Barbados? 
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I stand with the girl, Natalee Holloway.

"I can look back over the past 10 years and there were no steps wasted, and there are no regrets,'' she said. "I did all I knew to do and I think that gives me greater peace now." "I've lived every parent's worst nightmare and I'm the parent that nobody wants to be," she said.

Beth Holloway, 2015 interview with Greta van Susteren
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« Reply #349 on: March 14, 2009, 03:09:20 PM »

YW TM......And My Son says no problem and YW....

About The Quantico thing seems like I remember Hotshit or Lou saying something like the FBI agent that Kyle was working with turned out to be crooked or something....Does Anybody Else remember this..... 


There have been rumors throughout about the alleged "crooked" FBI agent.  At one time it was even contended that he was present at the rock painting!

And yet, no one knows his name or where he came from or how he was assigned to this all in the first place especially considering that even FBI has to be invited into a foreign country.  And this one is one of the very few that failed to issue that invitation.
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« Reply #350 on: March 14, 2009, 03:09:59 PM »

Why did Kyle say the FBI was uninvited if there was "someone from Quantico" on board.  This seems a revision of his previous statement.  Quantico is a Marine base adjacent to Washington, D.C.  The FBI Academy is located there, firing ranges and some of the forensic labs.  I doubt agents are dispatched from that location.  Headquarters or field offices would seem more likely.



I believe that Lou is attempting to imply that a forensic expert who was  sent from the FBI Lab in Quantico, Virginia was on board the Persistence.

However ... Magnolia's suspicions that Lou is deceptively referring to an Aruban diver or Aruban official who was trained at Quantico was on board.

There was not one observr on board the Persistence who was present in an official capacity to represent Natalee Holloway and her family.

When all was said and done ... Kyle Kingman ... prior to backtracking ... is the only observr on board the Persistence who has taken action on behalf of Natalee Holloway and her family ... taken actions by revealing in his own words the John Silvetti betrayal.

Janet

+++++++++

Aruba Cops Search Dutch Suspect's Home
Wednesday, June 15, 2005


An FBI spokeswoman confirmed to FOX News that Aruban officials have not requested more evidence processing at the bureau's lab in Quantico, Va. The FBI had been asked to process what was believed to be blood found in a car belonging to one of the suspects, but after testing, it was determined not to be blood.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,159601,00.html

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Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

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« Reply #351 on: March 14, 2009, 03:14:46 PM »

YW TM......And My Son says no problem and YW....

About The Quantico thing seems like I remember Hotshit or Lou saying something like the FBI agent that Kyle was working with turned out to be crooked or something....Does Anybody Else remember this..... 

Dennis Shipley is the only FBI agent I have seen mentioned regarding the Persistence.
I have never seen anything that said he was aboard the ship.

To correct myself.

Douglas Shipley is the only FBI agent I have seen mentioned regarding the Persistence.
I have never seen anything that said he was aboard the ship.
[/quote]
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« Reply #352 on: March 14, 2009, 03:19:46 PM »


I'm sorry, guys, but I just think we're giving her entirely too much attention.

It is obvious that if there were an FBI agent on board the Persistence, Kyle Kingman would have mentioned that to the Freebirds during his recounting of the events of those days.  He did not.

IF Kyle even told this to her, it is an after-the-fact fabrication, imo.

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« Reply #353 on: March 14, 2009, 03:25:20 PM »

Regarding the fatality Mermis mentioned in Hotping's post:

February 3, 2007

Fatality:

Saturation Diver with Superior Offshore International in the Gulf of Mexico.  No further details available at this time.  Reported by:  Superior Offshore International; Reported to:  USCG, MS, ADCI.

http://www.adc-int.org/safe.htm
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« Reply #354 on: March 14, 2009, 03:28:29 PM »

Subtech also mentioned in Hotping's post.

http://www.subtech.co.za/content/view/60/17/

February 2008

The previous owners of Subtech Diving and Marine have negotiated the buy back of Superior Offshore South Africa from Superior Offshore International Inc. The company will trade as Subtech (Pty) Ltd from the 1st March 2008 and will continue to focus on marine civil construction, salvage, ships husbandry, NDT and offshore support along the coast of Southern Africa, the Indian Ocean islands and the Middle East.

November 2007

Superior Offshore South Africa has purchased a Modular Jack-Up Barge which is expected to significantly enhance the company’s capacity in terms of inshore civil marine operations. The Sea Island 1 was manufactured in 1997 by Ravenstein, for use in the Oresund Tunnel contract in Denmark. The vessel is a suitable platform for geotechnical drilling, dredging, lifting and piling activities in protected waters and is a unique piece of equipment in the South African waters.

September 2007

Superior Offshore South Africa is appointed as a major subcontractor to the Dredging International/Group 5 Consortium which has been awarded the DHEW (Durban Harbor Entrance Widening & Deepening contract) in Durban, South Africa. The project has a planned completion date of March 2010 and Superior Offshore is to provide underwater demolition services and ongoing diving and marine support from construction barges.

December 2006

Superior Offshore International acquires Subtech Diving and Marine of Durban, South Africa. Subtech will operate as Superior Offshore South Africa under the existing management, and will continue to provide commercial diving services on the coast of South Africa, the western Indian Ocean and in the Middle East.

 
 
 
 
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« Reply #355 on: March 14, 2009, 03:30:38 PM »

Regarding the fatality Mermis mentioned in Hotping's post:

February 3, 2007

Fatality:

Saturation Diver with Superior Offshore International in the Gulf of Mexico.  No further details available at this time.  Reported by:  Superior Offshore International; Reported to:  USCG, MS, ADCI.

http://www.adc-int.org/safe.htm

Thanks, 2NJ - I was wondering about that!

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« Reply #356 on: March 14, 2009, 03:35:52 PM »

http://issuu.com/dbastien/docs/vt_halter/16?mode=a_p




     

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I stand with the girl, Natalee Holloway.

"I can look back over the past 10 years and there were no steps wasted, and there are no regrets,'' she said. "I did all I knew to do and I think that gives me greater peace now." "I've lived every parent's worst nightmare and I'm the parent that nobody wants to be," she said.

Beth Holloway, 2015 interview with Greta van Susteren
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« Reply #357 on: March 14, 2009, 03:38:08 PM »


I'm sorry, guys, but I just think we're giving her entirely too much attention.

It is obvious that if there were an FBI agent on board the Persistence, Kyle Kingman would have mentioned that to the Freebirds during his recounting of the events of those days.  He did not.

IF Kyle even told this to her, it is an after-the-fact fabrication, imo.



I agree Lifesong.

Bottom line:  FBI agent or not ... Kyle Kingman's own words attest to the fact there was no samples recovered on the December 30th visual dive and ... the recovery of January 7th involved only the Arubans with so much as a challenge by John Silvetti.

Janet

++++++

DECEMBER 30, 2007

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman:
  We had an American diver with us on the Dec 30th dive. We were encouraged to do so and invited by the Arubans. I requested all samples to be brought on board the Persistence for visual and top-side photographs. It was ignored by the project lead (John S.) who felt the Arubans would follow whatever they needed to do as far as proper protocol.


JANUARY 7, 2007

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman:
I get done in the survey room backing up the ROV dive and head to the back deck to talk to the Polis divers and see what they sampled and see the Polis boat way in the distance heading away fast. John doesn't seem concerned at all, but I am very dissapointed, concerned, and burning inside because I have a feeling that I/we will never know what they took from the trap. That evening I talked to John asking when we plan on recovering the trap. Previously this was part of the talks and plan, but this time he doesn't seem concerned about ever looking into the trap further. After John verbally BASHED me about the trap for what I said to Tim Miller about the sand body-form and that I believed her skirt was under the sand, John pretty much committed himself to the belief the trap wasn't what we were after. This shocked me because it was exactly what we were looking for- a fish trap lost at sea with human remains.

Kyle Kingman: We had little option other than to have the Aruban dive division recover the samples and bring them back under their care. Remember we are Americans working in Aruban waters, subject to their laws, invitation, and blessing. Our hands are tied for the most part. I personally was extremely uncomfortable with the chain of custody, being that we weren't a part of it, but I was powerless to do anything about it. The samples were photographed in detail by one Aruban diver and the other two investigated the contents of the trap, the dimensions, the rigging, and what surrounded the trap. From the video, it looked like they did a diligent and careful job with the samples and the underwater photography. I don't know who has these pictures, but I must assume ALE.


THE JOHN SILVETTI BETRAYAL?

Kyle Kingman:
  John is not a believer in the trap. He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related, yet never studied the videos or bothered to inquire further. He had plans on doing business with Aruba and in S. America and he didn't want to hurt any feelings by talks hinting at lack of complete trust and friendship. I did not feel the same and we had a major difference in opinion. He was the one who never pressed ALE to be completely open with us with the trap evidence. I would have forced them to. However, John was the one paying my invoices so I was forced to sit back and hope for the best






 
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Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

“A person of integrity expects to be believed and when he’s not, he let’s time prove him right.” -unknown
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« Reply #358 on: March 14, 2009, 03:41:38 PM »

Schaefer, Mermis, Koch, Burks, Terry....all had what seemed to be great resumes....one and/or all let Superior go down the tubes.
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R.I.P Dear 2NJ - say hi to Peaches for us!

I expect a miracle _Peaches ~ ~ May She Rest In Peace.

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« Reply #359 on: March 14, 2009, 03:50:47 PM »

It appears that at least one of our prodical monkeys is no longer bowing unconditionally to Lou's justification of Kyle Kingman's own words.  Iris appears to be thinking for herself and ... challenging the status quo.

Janet

++++++


Iris 44
Re: The Cage
« Reply #65 on: Today at 12:43:23 am »


ldstlou,
I can believe that Kyle got caught up in the emotion at first, but why did he keep posting about it much later with the Freebirds?  I wonder what his intentions were at that point.  Were you communicating with him then? 

http://goldmonkey.org/index.php?topic=980.60


Iris is an analyst.  That's what she does.  I believe I read her stating this several times. 
She can be found here:


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