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Author Topic: Natalee Case Discussion #807 3/12/09 - 3/17/09am  (Read 216735 times)
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Tamikosmom
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« Reply #800 on: March 16, 2009, 02:27:09 PM »

Kermit....I understand everything except the photobucket information.....

First....it goes to the front page of photobucket....not to any pictures....
then the url you gave has susanesmith....SES or SS....also julia renfro (omg)....is this true?

....and what about ktfkermit.....are you both the same person?   or am I just too old
to stay on internet forums any longer....lol

<snipped?

Janet, I also do not believe Natalee was in that cage. It is an opinion. I have no proof.


Sam ... proof or no proof ... when you consider Kyle Kingman's expertise in analyzing ROV images ... why do you not give any credibility to his own words ... to his own perfessional opinion?  Do you believe that Kyle Kingman is incompentent?  Do you believe that Kyle Kingman is a liar?

Maybe you could share what you your personal opinion on that Natalee Holloway's remains were not placed in that cage/trap?

The following quotes are what I base my personal opinion on that Nat Natalee Holloway's remains could have possible been placed in that cage/trap?

Thank you.

Janet

++++++


ROV ANALYSIS

The fabric - The Tarp - The vertebrae - The Skull


Kyle Kingman:  Dateline (Tim Uelinger) had an agreement with Tim Miller to 'do a story to tell about and help promote TES and give TM recognition, and perhaps a 10 minute side-line story on Natalee along with 11 other missing persons. Dateline tagged along with TM for a while pre-NH search. They (TM and Dateline) came on the Persistence between 15-Dec and 30-Dec. I found the trap on 1:45am Christmas morning. I got the OK to begin our ROV dive series for the 29th, so I made it our first dive. We got visual of the fish trap and that it was suspicious. Basically, the fish trap door was open and there appeared to be a skull and torso-shape in sand on the door inside the trap Reviewing the 29-Dec video I noticed the torso shape in sand had a 90 degree angle and that the sand was supported from falling through the bottom of the trap, which was slightly excavated by currents. I proportioned out the distance from the top of the head, to shoulder, to that 90 degree angle and it was a match to Natalee's photo of her standing -head, to shoulder, to the end of her denim skirt. I showed TM the proportional match and the possibility of a skirt under the sand and he said he's going to tell the parents. I said definitely not until we sample the trap and get results. He made the call to Dave and Beth independently.

Kyle Kingman:  I took the proportions of the body form from the head, to shoulder, to a 90 degree angle which I believed to be the hem line of Natalee's skirt. I then took those proportions and matched them to the photo of Natalee with what she was last seen wearing. The proportions matched within an inch from head, to shoulder, to skirt line. Based on this comparison and with what we believed we saw in the Dec 29th video, Tim Miller contacted the family and told them the 99.9% comment. I told Tim not to do anything until we have forensic results back after the site is processed. Jan 7th we sampled the contents and in my opinion we found the skirt under the sand along with the other items The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured. If it isn't her, it will forever haunt me as a major cosmic WTF.

Kyle Kingman: We all know it wasn't a blouse, but I believe they were sent some piece of fabric other than the fabric found inside the trap.

Kyle Kingman: The portion of the discolored blue fabric was presumably on the bottom of the fabric. In my opinion this discoloration is not another type of fabric, but rather biological staining or discoloration from biological growth caused from a high organic carbon content and decay. Basically, during decay a biological mat will form around the organics from remains. This is what I believe it is on the bottom of the fabric.

Kyle Kingman: It was confirmed by the FBI that they received a fabric sample send by Richardson and that it wasn't a match to Natalee's blouse. I think the video can prove or disprove whatever the FBI was sent was the same object or not. I strongly believe it's blue denim.

Kyle Kingman: Notice the end of the skirt is an identical match to the 90 degree angle in the sand. I believe her left arm was outstretched with her legs slightly bent. I did not edit the legs. I believe the tarp was placed over her and tucked around her, or perhaps tied down. I believe there are several rocks laying on the sand which were placed on the tarp, or inside the tarp over her body which explains their unusual location. Either way, the proportions appear promising.

Kyle Kingman: The fabric(s?) are not visible on either the Dec 29th or 30th dives. There is about an inch of sand over the fabrics. The fabrics are completely covered. The diver sampled the sand and found the fabric underneath the sand. He then bagged the blue fabric. If the other bag contains fabric, it was also in the sand. There was also something possibly recovered from far inside the trap. In the video the diver is inside the trap with just below his knees showing. I don't know what was sampled far inside the trap if anything.

Kyle Kingman: In my opinion that last pic from Jan 7th should be absolutely intriguing and flip your mind from what you thought you knew. In case it isn't clear.. notice the blue denim-like fabric.

Kyle Kingman: Notice the blue fabric swayed in the current.

Kyle Kingman: The blue tarp piece was found approx 6-10 ft away from the trap opening.

Kyle Kingman:  I am 100% confident other important items are at that site and can be found during processing of the site with a suction system.  The only confirmation of items sampled were blue fabric and the piece of tarp.  This is the only thing Richardson and Mos independantly confirmed.  Remember, they each only confirmed one piece.  One confirmed blue fabric, the other confirmed tarp.  From the video you see both.

Kyle Kingman: The most likely to remain at or near it's original location was the skull, which is why I was so convinced the object pictured was a skull.

Kyle Kingman: … John verbally BASHED me about the trap for what I said to Tim Miller about the sand body-form and that I believed her skirt was under the sand

Kyle Kingman: I'm sorry if this is disturbing. I took the picture of Natalee standing on the beach and cropped, rotated, and scaled the image to correlate with the trap body form. Notice the end of the skirt is an identical match to the 90 degree angle in the sand.

Kyle Kingman: The bag that is above the denim bag looks to me as though it contains pieces of vertebrae.

Kyle Kingman:  As of the 2nd week of Feb, this is what I had learned from the FBI: The contents of the trap were being actively investigated. The forensic results of a fabric sample showed the fabric sample was not a match to Natalee's blouse and that no DNA match to Natalee was found within that fabric sample. Human remains were found, but the FBI was not and would not comment on the case. The FBI did not comment on the remains, but rather the fabric sample.

Kyle Kingman: In my opinion, the blue fabric is quite possibly Natalee's skirt. The divers found the denim where I suggested a week earlier (Dec 29th) to Tim Miller that there was likely Natalee's denim skirt under the sand. Also in my opinion, the deni-like fabric is a match in terms of color, quantity, and structure to Natalee's skirt. It's not a lot of denim folded in the bag, but then again her skirt was rather small.
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Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

“A person of integrity expects to be believed and when he’s not, he let’s time prove him right.” -unknown
Anna
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« Reply #801 on: March 16, 2009, 02:29:27 PM »

Hotping,

I typed a reply to yours regarding the sonavision site, but I must have back spaced before hitting post, because it's not here. 

Anyway, I did not go to the sonavision site, which was the first link you gave.  I open the second link which opened the pdf file with John & Roberta Silveitt's picture, etc. 

I do not have the bells & whistles some of you have and cannot say whether the sonavision site is safe.  Virus scans have occasionally found trojans on this pc, but hubby usually gets blamed because he clicks on anything!!!!! 
Thanks 2NJ...I'm going to wait a couple of days and see if the warning is removed before I venture onto that site.... 


Hotping,

I went there and looked all over the PDF brochure.  I tried to highlight and copy the part about the Silvettis but being in PDF format, it wouldn't and I don't know how to copy just a section in one of those.  It didn't set off any security warnings on my computer.  I have four security softwares installed and didn't get anything unusual.  Maybe they already corrected the problem? 

The part about the Silvettis is right in the middle of the page.  Has a photo of them along with a couple of other people.  Not much new I don't think.
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PERSONA NON GRATA

All posts reflect my opinion only and are not shared by all forum members nor intended as statement of facts.  I am doing the best I can with the information available.

Murder & Crime on Aruba Summary http://tinyurl.com/2nus7c
Keepthefaith
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« Reply #802 on: March 16, 2009, 02:29:29 PM »

For the Love of God..No one at Scared Monkey's has RAN anybody away..Posters who can't verify,and or back their posts up tend to migrate to GM,and or CNG...If you are a memeber at either sight and are aware,which i'm sure you are,of the tactics they use to distract then SHAME ON YOU!!Who will be next??
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"A small body of determined spirits fired by an unquenchable faith in their mission can alter the course of history."

MOHANDAS GANDHI
hotping
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All Prayers Will Be Answered in Time!


« Reply #803 on: March 16, 2009, 02:30:18 PM »

KTF I was just wondering where You were and then I spotted you in the rafters..... Cat got Your Tongue...just kidding....Glad to see Ya! 
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In God We Trust!
Prayers Will Bring Natalee Home!
May 2010 Bring Natalee Home to Rest In Peace!
Anna
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« Reply #804 on: March 16, 2009, 02:31:08 PM »

I would have thought Aruban divers would have seen seashells and hermit crabs before.  Why would they dive and bag them?
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All posts reflect my opinion only and are not shared by all forum members nor intended as statement of facts.  I am doing the best I can with the information available.

Murder & Crime on Aruba Summary http://tinyurl.com/2nus7c
Tamikosmom
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« Reply #805 on: March 16, 2009, 02:31:48 PM »

In the middle of the Kermit bashing thread at GM there is a post stating that I am German.  Guess I'd better see my attorney about that!

I thought that thread went "poof".  I cannot find it.

Anna ... could please provide the link.

Thank you.

Janet
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Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

“A person of integrity expects to be believed and when he’s not, he let’s time prove him right.” -unknown
hotping
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« Reply #806 on: March 16, 2009, 02:32:51 PM »

Hotping,

I typed a reply to yours regarding the sonavision site, but I must have back spaced before hitting post, because it's not here. 

Anyway, I did not go to the sonavision site, which was the first link you gave.  I open the second link which opened the pdf file with John & Roberta Silveitt's picture, etc. 

I do not have the bells & whistles some of you have and cannot say whether the sonavision site is safe.  Virus scans have occasionally found trojans on this pc, but hubby usually gets blamed because he clicks on anything!!!!! 
Thanks 2NJ...I'm going to wait a couple of days and see if the warning is removed before I venture onto that site.... 


Hotping,

I went there and looked all over the PDF brochure.  I tried to highlight and copy the part about the Silvettis but being in PDF format, it wouldn't and I don't know how to copy just a section in one of those.  It didn't set off any security warnings on my computer.  I have four security softwares installed and didn't get anything unusual.  Maybe they already corrected the problem? 

The part about the Silvettis is right in the middle of the page.  Has a photo of them along with a couple of other people.  Not much new I don't think.
Thank You Anna..I might venture there later but for now I will watch to see if the warnings are removed...... 
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In God We Trust!
Prayers Will Bring Natalee Home!
May 2010 Bring Natalee Home to Rest In Peace!
Keepthefaith
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« Reply #807 on: March 16, 2009, 02:33:59 PM »

KTF I was just wondering where You were and then I spotted you in the rafters..... Cat got Your Tongue...just kidding....Glad to see Ya! 

I'm just about up to full energy..Just laughing at the Brassmonkey crap..
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"A small body of determined spirits fired by an unquenchable faith in their mission can alter the course of history."

MOHANDAS GANDHI
hotping
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« Reply #808 on: March 16, 2009, 02:36:31 PM »

KTF I was just wondering where You were and then I spotted you in the rafters..... Cat got Your Tongue...just kidding....Glad to see Ya! 

I'm just about up to full energy..Just laughing at the Brassmonkey crap..
Great Glad You are almost back to normal You have been missed...Yep its pretty laughable! 
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In God We Trust!
Prayers Will Bring Natalee Home!
May 2010 Bring Natalee Home to Rest In Peace!
Lifesong
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« Reply #809 on: March 16, 2009, 02:37:10 PM »



http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4246.msg590181#msg590181
bastibro
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #786 12/17/08 -
« Reply #291 on: December 18, 2008, 02:07:51 PM »

"The skull was not the only thing in the cage Johan.
I found this pic very convincing(the hip socket)...I`m sure a skull would be, like Anna and Magnolia said, filled with coral, barnacles or sponges."






http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4246.msg590244#msg590244
johan555
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #786 12/17/08 -
« Reply #304 on: December 18, 2008, 02:36:11 PM »

"Yes i saw also some bones on the screenshots ( on another pic )
But i have big doubts about the skull.
And if it were human remains were are they Now ?

Yes i saw also some bones on the screenshots"



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"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use."  - Galileo
Kermit
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« Reply #810 on: March 16, 2009, 02:37:40 PM »



THIS IS THE TYPE OF MALICIOUS ACTIVITY SS DOES - SOMEONE WHO WORKS WITH CHILDREN

May 17, 2008, 04:11:16 PM
I am not a mole.  I have never met CAPS and I have never had a conversation with him.  I don't know anyone in Aruba and I have never set foot on the crappy island.  I am a 58 year old high school guidance counselor/school psychologist.  I am a divorced single parent with a son who is an attorney for the Justice Department in Washington, DC.  I live in New Jersey, close to NYC.  I am originally from the Philadelphia area, but I have lived all over the US and in other countries.  Is there anything else that you would like to know?  I don't know where you have come up with your information, but you are off base and out of line
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2844.msg382324#msg382324
 

The Hudson County jail is about 15 miles away from me (I am in Bergen County, which is north of Hudson County), but I don't know how I could verify anything. 
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2844.msg382731#msg382731



November 16, 2008, 04:20:12 PM
Smith, Halliburton, and Hughes are top oil drilling companies in the US.  I know this for sure because of personal experience
/http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4101.msg545029#msg545029


November 06, 2008, 10:08:08 PM   ( 58 now, 26 when lived there)
Thirty-two years ago, I lived In Isfahan, Iran for two years.  The left hand was used for toilet functions because their bathroom facilities are very different than ours are.  They don't use toilet paper
//http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=3697.msg527697#msg527697


SS
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #776 11/19-08
« Reply #377 on: November 19, 2008, 08:19:19 PM »
For a long, long time I was just a lurker.  For another long time, I was posting sometimes on the front page.  I have always gone by SS, my initials.  I actually started posting on the forum last winter, but last spring and summer I was mostly in Shango.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4153.360

From Chat and Grumble
http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m103/SusanESmith/KTFKermit.jpg


SS
 
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #776 11/19-08
« Reply #968 on: November 21, 2008, 03:53:26 PM »
I lived in Iran for a few years and the Shah considered the Iranians to be Arian also.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4153.960
 

 
Name:
SS
Posts:
3214 (9.343 per day)
Position:
Scared Monkey
Date Registered:
March 02, 2008, 09:19:49 PM

Last Active:
January 30, 2009, 10:35:05 AM









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texasmom
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ARUBA: It's all about Natalee...we won't give up!


« Reply #811 on: March 16, 2009, 02:38:42 PM »

KTF I was just wondering where You were and then I spotted you in the rafters..... Cat got Your Tongue...just kidding....Glad to see Ya! 

I'm just about up to full energy..Just laughing at the Brassmonkey crap..

Glad you're almost well KTF!  

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I stand with the girl, Natalee Holloway.

"I can look back over the past 10 years and there were no steps wasted, and there are no regrets,'' she said. "I did all I knew to do and I think that gives me greater peace now." "I've lived every parent's worst nightmare and I'm the parent that nobody wants to be," she said.

Beth Holloway, 2015 interview with Greta van Susteren
jen3560
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« Reply #812 on: March 16, 2009, 02:41:03 PM »

Knowing SS real name now, this one really gets me wondering:

November 16, 2008, 04:20:12 PM

Smith, Halliburton, and Hughes are top oil drilling companies in the US.  I know this for sure because of personal experience
/http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4101.msg545029#msg545029
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Keepthefaith
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« Reply #813 on: March 16, 2009, 02:43:30 PM »

KTF I was just wondering where You were and then I spotted you in the rafters..... Cat got Your Tongue...just kidding....Glad to see Ya! 

I'm just about up to full energy..Just laughing at the Brassmonkey crap..

Glad you're almost well KTF!  



Thanx TM..I don't wish that sickness upon nobody!
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"A small body of determined spirits fired by an unquenchable faith in their mission can alter the course of history."

MOHANDAS GANDHI
Anna
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« Reply #814 on: March 16, 2009, 02:46:47 PM »

In the middle of the Kermit bashing thread at GM there is a post stating that I am German.  Guess I'd better see my attorney about that!

I thought that thread went "poof".  I cannot find it.

Anna ... could please provide the link.

Thank you.

Janet


I don't have a link, Janet, I just went there and read it one afternoon while it was rainy and I had nothing better to do.  Yes, I understand that it has since them gone "poof."  Seems when they bash and trash for a while it then gets dragged into their hidey hole.

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All posts reflect my opinion only and are not shared by all forum members nor intended as statement of facts.  I am doing the best I can with the information available.

Murder & Crime on Aruba Summary http://tinyurl.com/2nus7c
Tamikosmom
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« Reply #815 on: March 16, 2009, 02:47:03 PM »

What the heck is my name doing in the middle of that carp. ?
I do not even know where this other web site is.

It looks like THEY " The Enemy" is just trying to play the game called divide and conquer.

Just one little word to them, and everyone.
I never put myself in such situations.
Because.. I like you.

Edward ... I apologize.  You provided me the definition of SS in your history lesson last week.

It was me who impulsively used that definition to further MY OWN PURPOSE.

Again ... I apologize for including your name in my post.
 
Janet
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Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

“A person of integrity expects to be believed and when he’s not, he let’s time prove him right.” -unknown
Kermit
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« Reply #816 on: March 16, 2009, 02:51:45 PM »


CHAT AND GRUMBLE SECRET SERVICE ACCUSATIONS



SS started that at SM

DATE SS REGISTERED AT SM 
March 02, 2008, 09:19:49 PM


SS
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #776 11/19-08
« Reply #968 on: November 21, 2008, 03:53:26 PM »
I lived in Iran for a few years and the Shah considered the Iranians to be Arian also.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4153.960
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Tamikosmom
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« Reply #817 on: March 16, 2009, 02:52:10 PM »

FWIW - I really do believe that SS's initials have more to do with his/her real name than anything like Schutzstaffel.

Klaas ... you are most likely right.

When I read Edward's post the other day ... I reflected on SS's unwaving support for CAPS' despite his changing theories, flawed research and predictions that are never fulfilled.

The only reason I posted that quote was to be mean.  Payback for cruelly mimicing my writing style on GM last week.

I could not fathom what my writing style had to do with the topic of CAPS ... the topic of the Persistence.  The words "I do not agree with your position Janet because ...." would suffice.

Obviously ... I do not always walk the walk.

Janet

++++++

Edward
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #805 3/6/09 -
« Reply #796 on: March 09, 2009, 02:41:48 PM »


An elite corps of combat troops (SS is short for Schutzstaffel, which is German for “protective shield”) formed originally within the German Nazi party as a bodyguard for Adolf Hitler and other Nazi leaders and led by Heinrich Himmler. 

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4633.msg710862#msg710862
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Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

“A person of integrity expects to be believed and when he’s not, he let’s time prove him right.” -unknown
Mere
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« Reply #818 on: March 16, 2009, 02:53:40 PM »

janet...the 5 pages were there perhaps 30 minutes ago
chat and grumble dot com
click on the frog and scroll
take a bath when finished
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Kermit
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« Reply #819 on: March 16, 2009, 02:53:50 PM »


Chat and Grumble post
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