Natalee Case Discussion #808 3/17/09 - 3/19/09

[wreck]

Excuse me, but I have been hurling my lunch! I just read from Anna about a "sex party" with Jossy and Julia present.   

I don't know which is funnier - wreck hurling his lunch. or the visual of Jossy shak'n his booty with Julia at a sex party.

My stomach had settled -- thanks a lot! 

Hey, don't blame me!  That was one of CapsLockWizard's Theori du jours!  He actually posted that and claimed poor Joran just dropped Natalee off at this sex party with Jossy and Julia and when she was returned to him, she had already expired!  And Julia got the whole thing on film.

He posted that right here in this forum and his minions did eat it right up, yum!  And furthermore,it was at those apartments the Kalpoes' parents don't own.

Yet those who questioned were the ones to get the rolling eyes and snarky remarks. 

It was Twilight Zone time for sure!

  I know it wasn't your theory!  Just seeing "sex party" and the names Jossy and Julia mentioned -- gave me the "hinkys"! 

[jen3560]

<snipped>

Kyle: "To the best of my knowledge, the photos have only been sent to the FBI, Beth, Tim Trahan, Louis, John, and myself (and of course here).  No one else has access or copies of the photos or footage. All fingers point back to me when this leaks."

<snipped>

Kermit

Was Kyle Kingman relating the truth when he claimed the ROV images had be sent to the FBI and Beth?

Janet

 

I see Kerm's not here - so I'll answer this one.....

WE had just sent them to Beth and the FBI.  And we had received Beth's permission to publish the document at our blog.

This was all in Kyle's arguments to keep us from publishing.

Jen ... I get it.

In your original "letter" to the SM site outlining the events encompassing the Kyle Kingman connection ... it was stated that at some point the Natalee's Freebirds were under the impression that Kyle had sent everything to Beth Holloway but ... it was later revealed otherwise.

Did I get that right?

Thanks

Janet

Correct.

[jen3560]

Kyle wrote March 2008:

I don't know why the time is so long between the sample date (7-Jan) and when the FBI claims to have received the items (22-Jan). Richardson claims to have personally sent the items immediately to the FBI. He didn't say anything about it being sent anywhere else. The FBI claims half the samples were sent to Holland for analysis. Richardson says the FBI got it all. The FBI says there were human remains (this is aside from the fabrics). - this is a big lurking question in the forums, whether or not there were human remains. To my understanding, there were indeed remains. The trap appeared to be badly scavenged, with items scattered radially away from the trap opening. Tim Trahan couldn't conclusively identify any bone inside the trap (hence the thumbs down). I couldn't see anything from the video other than the contested skull (which I have dubbed the caribbean skull-sponge).

Johan ... is this article your source that revealed there was nothing Natalee Holloway related was in that trap.

 

Think about it ... the FBI lab received what the Arubans claimed came from the trap ... the Arubans who have prevented justice from prevailing for Natalee Holloway since May 30, 2005.

 

Janet

______

johan555
Re: The Cage
« Reply #169 on: Today at 03:23:00 pm »

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,332848,00.html

FBI Says Fabrics Found in Aruban Crab Trap Not From Holloway
Tuesday, February 26, 2008
 
ORANJESTAD, Aruba  —  An FBI analysis of fabric collected from a crab trap off Aruba showed the material did not match clothing worn by missing American Natalee Holloway, prosecutors said Tuesday.

The fabric was recovered in January by Aruban divers in about 90 feet (27 meters) of water as they searched for the body of the missing woman, the public prosecutor's office said in a statement.

Click here for photos from the case.

The FBI compared the material to a blouse worn by Holloway, who was 18 when she disappeared on the final night of a high school graduation trip to the island in May 2005. The results "showed that the two materials were not a match," the statement said.

http://goldmonkey.org/index.php?topic=980.165


KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman: It was confirmed by the FBI that they received a fabric sample send by Richardson and that it wasn't a match to Natalee's blouse. I think the video can prove or disprove whatever the FBI was sent was the same object or not. I strongly believe it's blue denim.

Kyle Kingman: We all know it wasn't a blouse, but I believe they were sent some piece of fabric other than the fabric found inside the trap.

Kyle Kingman: The blue tarp and blue fabric was confirmed by Richardson and Mos. Remember, they each only confirmed one piece. One confirmed blue fabric, the other confirmed tarp. From the video you see both

Kyle Kingman:  As of the 2nd week of Feb, this is what I had learned from the FBI: The contents of the trap were being actively investigated. The forensic results of a fabric sample showed the fabric sample was not a match to Natalee's blouse and that no DNA match to Natalee was found within that fabric sample. Human remains were found, but the FBI was not and would not comment on the case. The FBI did not comment on the remains, but rather the fabric sample.

Kyle Kingman:  Remember it was Richardson who said to us that he personally handled the evidence and sent it immediately to our FBI)

[Kermit]

[Kermit]

[Tamikosmom]

In your original "letter" to the SM site outlining the events encompassing the Kyle Kingman connection ... it was stated that at some point the Natalee's Freebirds were under the impression that Kyle had sent everything to Beth Holloway but ... it was later revealed otherwise.

Did I get that right?

Thanks

Janet

Correct.

Thanks Jen.

It is important that the following quote is not placed out of context in a timeline and ... give the Darkside any points.

 

Janet

++++++

Kyle: "To the best of my knowledge, the photos have only been sent to the FBI, Beth, Tim Trahan, Louis, John, and myself (and of course here). No one else has access or copies of the photos or footage. All fingers point back to me when this leaks."

[Kermit]

[Kermit]

[Kermit]

Kermit, jen3560, klaasend, Tamikosmom, texasmom, Anna, 2NJSons_Mom, wreck, Lifesong, bastibro and 10 Guests are viewing this topic.

[Lifesong]

Bear with me please, I apologize for the long post.  I've been reading back through the timeline...take a look at this with me?

12/15/2007
Persistence arrived at Aruba – “1615 hrs: ARRIVED at Aruba pilot station. Port Authorities board and the Persistence is cleared for docking.”

12/18/2007

• …Aruban Prosecutor Closes Natalee Holloway Case… – “Prosecutors closed their investigation into the disappearance of American teenager Natalee Holloway, saying Tuesday they still believe three young men were involved in her death but can’t prove it after 932 days of searching failed to turn up a body.”
• Charges dismissed in Holloway case:  Authorities in Aruba said Tuesday they have dropped the case against three men in the disappearance of Alabama teenager Natalee Holloway for lack of sufficient evidence.  "No charges will be brought against them," the Aruban Public Prosecutor's Office said in a statement, referring to Joran van der Sloot, 20, and brothers Deepak and Satish Kalpoe, 20 and 21, respectively.
• “UPDATE: 1510 hrs: The Persistence has begun the search.”[/url]
• Dr. Andrew G. Hodges of Forensic Thoughtprints arrives in Aruba on his first trip to meet with the Persistence search crew.
• Louis Schaefer arrives in Aruba:  “Louis had just flown in for the first time also…”

12/19/2007

• Louis Schaefer, Tim Miller & Dr. Hodges board the Persistence and remain aboard for the next 24 hours.
• John Silvetti expresses frustration about the lack of an exact description of the missing crab cage:  “We had several interesting discussions both on deck and in the relatively small galley. At one point, the boat-owner, Capt. John Silvetti (of the J.D. Silvetti Group), expressed his frustration about the lack of an exact description of the missing "crab cage" in which Natalee was likely enclosed. He'd been requesting one for several weeks, and Louis had expressed the identical frustration to me earlier”

12/20/2007

• “Thurs. 20-Dec -0430 hrs:  The Persistence has completed the first day of the side scan sonar search.”
• Louis Schaefer and Dr. Hodges disembark the Persistence:  “The next day, Louis and I disembarked while Tim went back out on the boat.”
• Schaefer leaves Aruba:  “So I took him to the airport the next afternoon, and he planned on returning after Christmas as did I.”
• Dr. Hodges journal:   “At this point I called Tim Miller now at sea on The Persistence to pass along the new information about the cage. He put me on the phone with John Silvetti who was pleased with my findings. From the boat they emailed a new copy of the model cage to the person constructing an actual model of the cage, and picked it up the following morning upon returning to shore.”
• CapsLockWizard registers at SM, 09:38:24 PM

12/21/2007

• Dr. Hodges journal:  “By December 21, the search team had an accurate model cage and was able to drop it into the water and obtain a sonar signature of the cage."
• Comment #14. CapslockWizard on December 21st, 2007 5:30 pm
• Comment #15. CapslockWizard on December 21st, 2007 6:05 pm

12/22/2007

• Persistence team tests sensing equipment using local construction materials for a wire trap to confirm detection and signatures.
• Comment #22  Anonimo on December 22nd, 2007 11:17 pm
• Comment #26  Anonimo on December 22nd, 2007 11:41 pm
• Comment #27  Anonimo on December 22nd, 2007 11:45 pm
• Comment #29  Anonimo on December 22nd, 2007 11:51 pm
• Comment #31  Anonimo on December 22nd, 2007 11:56 pm

12/23/2007

• Comment #39.  Anonimo on December 23rd, 2007 1:33 am
• Comment #41.  Anonimo on December 23rd, 2007 1:48 am
• Comment #43.  Anonimo on December 23rd, 2007 2:27 am
• Comment #44.  Anonimo on December 23rd, 2007 2:30 am
• Comment #48.  Anonimo on December 23rd, 2007 4:19 am
• Comment #71.  CapsLockWizard on December 23rd, 2007 7:44 pm

12/24/2007

• Comment #73  Capslockwizard on December 24th, 2007 2:38 am
• Comment #75.  CapsLockWizard on December 24th, 2007 3:03 am

12/25/2007

• Trap found.  Per oceanexploration (Kyle Kingman):  “The trap in Video 1-3 was found from the first conducted ROV dive.  I found the target at 1:46 am on Christmas morning.  It was my #1 ranked priority target and therefore the first of the ROV dive series.”
• Comment #75.  CapsLockWizard on December 25th, 2007 3:22 am
• Comment #75.  CapsLockWizard on December 25th, 2007 3:31 am
• Comment #75.  CapsLockWizard on December 25th, 2007 3:52 am

Now, considering all of that...I wonder which day this really took place.  I think all we have to place it is "While we were searching" and "shortly before Christmas"...this would put it between the 18th and the 24th.  Very interesting...

The R/V Persistence Search team gets a stange but timely tip.

• Kyle Kingman:  "While we were searching shortly before Christmas, we were contacted by an Aruban detective who was involved in the Holloway case. He claimed that his brother had a vision about Natalee’s body offshore and had coordinates. He and his brother agreed to meet on the Persistence. The detective¢s brother gave what he thought were coordinates, but turned out to be a line of latitude. This latitude aligned with Arashi beach and came within a half mile of the fish trap.”
• Kyle Kingman:  “…He came to us during the search along with his brother who had a "vision" on where Natalee was disposed. The vision was cryptic and actually contained a latitude which from what he claimed could have been anywhere in the world. The brother thought they were coordinates, but it was just a latitude. Oddly, the latitude was within a half mile from where we found the trap and centered on Arashi beach. Basically, if you stood on land and pointed straight to the trap and were right on the money... this is what the difference amounts to. Based on this latitude we payed a little more attention to the northern portions of the search grid near that Latitude. The trap was found shortly after, within the original search area, but very close to the provided latitude. I would have found the trap without the latitude, but it was very strange. None of us pressed the two for more information because they clearly were VERY uncomfortable.
  The brother of the detective came to us and was very persistent over the information. He was almost in tears and just had to "clear his conscience" about it.
  His brother, the detective came with him to 'validate him'.
  Personally, I think the detective was Simian. The guy kept his mouth shut for the most part but was obviously intelligent and knew a lot more than he led on. It didn't seem he immediately trusted us but gradually became more comfortable, enough to talk.
  I think he used his brother and gave us only the amount of information he felt we needed to come across the trap. Basically, by using his brother and claiming the information he shared was only based on a vision, it distances the detective from responsibility and makes it hard to point back to him should it be a problem later. I think the whole game was bogus and he knew almost everything but was helping how he was able and felt comfortable. I don't understand why he had to use his brother and claim a "vision".
  The implications of this are tremendous. If true, it means that the early investigators knew where and how Natalee was disposed and it was kept secret and covered up. Not wanting to be implicated but still wanting to help, he could shift the information to a vision of his brothers, perhaps still help a bit and claim no-involvement. However, this man was intelligent enough, cared about the case, yet was self implicated to a high enough level to want to be kept his knowledge a secret. He spoke well enough english and knew everything in my opinion. Perhaps I should find out his name. I never got it. We may never have.
• Kyle Kingman:  “IF a key detective's brother knew the latitude the trap was disposed at or very near, then it's probable the detective knew the same.”
• Kyle Kingman:  “Since the trap was only in 90ft of water and the detective knew about the latitude, did the Polis already know if it's location prior to the search?”
• Kyle Kingman:  “The detective originally wouldn't meet with us and only wanted us to meet with his brother. We convinced him to meet along with his brother and made him feel as comfortable as possible. He reluctantly agreed but wouldn't talk. The brother did all the talking at first. It seemed to me the brother was acting out the "vision" scenario to protect the detective brother. It didn't feel like the brother was in any way corrupt or connected. Also, he wasn't that bright compared to the detective brother. After a while the detective started asking some questions and loosened up a bit. With the pointed questions he asked he proved he knew a lot, but we didn't press him.”

[jen3560]

Thank you for the compilation LifeSong.

That is quite telling, isn't it?

[Lifesong]

My point is - 12/20 was the first day of the search.

12/20 they emailed the correct dimensions of the cage to the 'cage builder'.

CapsLockWizard's first FP post was on the evening 12/20.


They picked up the model cage the morning of the 12/21.

Anonimo's first FP post was on the night of 12/21.


I wonder who made the cage, as well as which day they met with "the detective and his brother".

[jen3560]

My point is - 12/20 was the first day of the search.

12/20 they emailed the correct dimensions of the cage to the 'cage builder'.

CapsLockWizard's first FP post was on the evening 12/20.


They picked up the model cage the morning of the 12/21.

Anonimo's first FP post was on the night of 12/21.


I wonder who made the cage, as well as which day they met with "the detective and his brother".

Maybe one of these construction companies?  They would have ready access to the materials required for such a task...

MARCELINO VROLIJK RENTAL EQUIPMENT *
BUILDING CONTRACTORS [SMALL/RESIDENTIAL]  15123/000
 
MARCO VROLIJK CONTRACTOR *
BUILDING CONTRACTORS [SMALL/RESIDENTIAL]  11203/000
 
VROLIJK BEDRIJF *
BUILDING CONTRACTORS [SMALL/RESIDENTIAL]  11067/000
 
VROLIJK CARPINTE SHOP *
BUILDING CONTRACTORS [LARGE/INDUSTRIAL]  11704/000
 
VROLIJK CONSTRUCTION *
BUILDING CONTRACTORS [SMALL/RESIDENTIAL]  5231/000
 
VROLIJK HEAVY EQUIPMENT
BUILDING CONTRACTORS [LARGE/INDUSTRIAL]  30102/000

[Keepthefaith]

Kermit, jen3560, klaasend, Tamikosmom, texasmom, Anna, 2NJSons_Mom, wreck, Lifesong, bastibro and 10 Guests are viewing this topic.

What timing BastiBro has ehhh Kermit!

[klaasend]

NEED SOME HELP PLEASE.  I am getting bombarded with emails from LoRain trying to say that a post that I believe Kermit or Lifesong attributed to her was actually made by me.  I have explained to LoRain that she is wrong and even gave her the link in the forum where the post was made by her.  She doesn't get it and is calling me a liar.  I'm only posting all this so that you guys can get a glimps of the type of emails I receive from these people.

This is the post in question.  As you can see the post has not be edited or modified by anyone it is in it's original state as posted by LoRain:

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2481.msg323270#msg323270


LoRain sent me this email as proof that the post was made by me.  You will see my response to her first followed by her "proof" email. 





Since then the emails I've received from LoRain are as follows:

If you'll put your thinking cap on you will realize that LIFESONG has accused YOU of undermining the MB students.....but hey....I guess that's OK too...huh?...you gonna just let this one go too I suppose.....after all you are the mod....

Then this:

You are such a liar...surely you can't be that dumb...I can read you idiot.....Why would I say it was an "old post" if I had just made it?...you can't bullshit me Klaasend...I'm not stupid...nice try though....and I'll keep posting it til you and everyone else realizes you are an idiot....

Then she emailed the post to me again...

 
NOTE TO LORAIN - I DECIDED TO POST IT ALL OUT IN THE OPEN SO EVERYONE CAN SEE WHAT AN IDIOT I AM  

AND YES - THIS IS A PRIVATE EMAIL BUT I WAS PUSHED BY THE INITIATOR INTO POSTING THIS. 

[Lifesong]

My point is - 12/20 was the first day of the search.

12/20 they emailed the correct dimensions of the cage to the 'cage builder'.

CapsLockWizard's first FP post was on the evening 12/20.


They picked up the model cage the morning of the 12/21.

Anonimo's first FP post was on the night of 12/21.


I wonder who made the cage, as well as which day they met with "the detective and his brother".

Maybe one of these construction companies?  They would have ready access to the materials required for such a task...

MARCELINO VROLIJK RENTAL EQUIPMENT *
BUILDING CONTRACTORS [SMALL/RESIDENTIAL]  15123/000
 
MARCO VROLIJK CONTRACTOR *
BUILDING CONTRACTORS [SMALL/RESIDENTIAL]  11203/000
 
VROLIJK BEDRIJF *
BUILDING CONTRACTORS [SMALL/RESIDENTIAL]  11067/000
 
VROLIJK CARPINTE SHOP *
BUILDING CONTRACTORS [LARGE/INDUSTRIAL]  11704/000
 
VROLIJK CONSTRUCTION *
BUILDING CONTRACTORS [SMALL/RESIDENTIAL]  5231/000
 
VROLIJK HEAVY EQUIPMENT
BUILDING CONTRACTORS [LARGE/INDUSTRIAL]  30102/000

      JEN!!!!

But of course!

[Anna]

Lifesong,

Note that CapsLockWizard or WLC according to him left out the Santa Ana Church which does also have a large cemetery from the photos.

Why would he do THAT?

And also recall the last insults hurled my way, ldstlou oddly forgot how to spell Anna and was spelling it Ana as in copy and paste, lol.

[Lifesong]

Isn't LoRain the Genius that tried to cram her head in a sandwich baggie?

    

Hey Genius:  Klaas started the thread.  You made the post.

Click this link:  http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2481.msg323270#msg323270

Oh, go ahead - click it - it won't hurt you...  http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2481.msg323270#msg323270

Re: Natalee Case Discussion #708 12/28
« Reply #917 on: December 30, 2007, 07:02:23 PM »

                        This is when you made the post.

NEED SOME HELP PLEASE.  I am getting bombarded with emails from LoRain trying to say that a post that I believe Kermit or Lifesong attributed to her was actually made by me.  I have explained to LoRain that she is wrong and even gave her the link in the forum where the post was made by her.  She doesn't get it and is calling me a liar.  I'm only posting all this so that you guys can get a glimps of the type of emails I receive from these people.

This is the post in question.  As you can see the post has not be edited or modified by anyone it is in it's original state as posted by LoRain:

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2481.msg323270#msg323270


LoRain sent me this email as proof that the post was made by me.  You will see my response to her first followed by her "proof" email. 





Since then the emails I've received from LoRain are as follows:

If you'll put your thinking cap on you will realize that LIFESONG has accused YOU of undermining the MB students.....but hey....I guess that's OK too...huh?...you gonna just let this one go too I suppose.....after all you are the mod....

Then this:

You are such a liar...surely you can't be that dumb...I can read you idiot.....Why would I say it was an "old post" if I had just made it?...you can't bullshit me Klaasend...I'm not stupid...nice try though....and I'll keep posting it til you and everyone else realizes you are an idiot....

Then she emailed the post to me again...

 
NOTE TO LORAIN - I DECIDED TO POST IT ALL OUT IN THE OPEN SO EVERYONE CAN SEE WHAT AN IDIOT I AM  

AND YES - THIS IS A PRIVATE EMAIL BUT I WAS PUSHED BY THE INITIATOR INTO POSTING THIS. 

[Kermit]

Kermit, jen3560, klaasend, Tamikosmom, texasmom, Anna, 2NJSons_Mom, wreck, Lifesong, bastibro and 10 Guests are viewing this topic.

What timing BastiBro has ehhh Kermit!

yes, patterns, patterns, patterns.

[jen3560]

My point is - 12/20 was the first day of the search.

12/20 they emailed the correct dimensions of the cage to the 'cage builder'.

CapsLockWizard's first FP post was on the evening 12/20.


They picked up the model cage the morning of the 12/21.

Anonimo's first FP post was on the night of 12/21.


I wonder who made the cage, as well as which day they met with "the detective and his brother".

Maybe one of these construction companies?  They would have ready access to the materials required for such a task...

MARCELINO VROLIJK RENTAL EQUIPMENT *
BUILDING CONTRACTORS [SMALL/RESIDENTIAL]  15123/000
 
MARCO VROLIJK CONTRACTOR *
BUILDING CONTRACTORS [SMALL/RESIDENTIAL]  11203/000
 
VROLIJK BEDRIJF *
BUILDING CONTRACTORS [SMALL/RESIDENTIAL]  11067/000
 
VROLIJK CARPINTE SHOP *
BUILDING CONTRACTORS [LARGE/INDUSTRIAL]  11704/000
 
VROLIJK CONSTRUCTION *
BUILDING CONTRACTORS [SMALL/RESIDENTIAL]  5231/000
 
VROLIJK HEAVY EQUIPMENT
BUILDING CONTRACTORS [LARGE/INDUSTRIAL]  30102/000

      JEN!!!!

But of course!

   I can't tell if you're laughing because I stated the obvious *type* of companies...............or if my post gave you a light bulb moment....................as it was intended to.