o/t

[Angiex911dsptchr]

Kawish:  I think you are much better looking than Geoffrey or Joran.  Do you get girls easily?   Would you be attracted to an American girl who looks like Natalee Holloway?

yeh i would be attracted but i also look to the inside. if i dont like the inside then im not interessed anymore

I am way behind in reading.. but thought that was a nice thing for KBM to say.

 Edited to add.. I didnt mean anything against natalee.. cause I know some of ya'll take things the wrong way.  IF KBM is really  KBM. I just thought it was nice to hear a young man.. say what he did. Alot of guys go for looks only.. and dont care whats in the inside. been there.. done that. No picnic. Night all.. I just wanted to clarify.

[mishy]

Ang, I agree with you. It's rare to see a young man say that he looks for wh at is on the inside of a girl before he decides if there is an attraction. I thought it was nice too. It's so easy to go for the looks, but "pretty is as pretty does," my mama always said...and it's true...

[Buckeye]

kbm

This is copied from a FP poster but reflects my feelings pretty well.  As an Aruban and a friend of the people involved, what are your thoughts on all these inconsistancies??  Warning..very lengthy.

#8

I see noone being convicted on a blog. I see people stating their opinions based on statements and interviews and logical conclusions the past year and a half. If you believe Joran spent all evening trying to get a ride to go to CnC to score with a MB student and then didn’t because he had no condom that’s your choice. There’s also no proof, Natalee asked to do a bodyshot, Natalee wanted a drink on her way out of CnC, yelled at Joran to come over, knew she wasn’t getting in a taxi, knew she was going anywhere but her hotel room, wanted to go to Joran’s to see his big house, wanted to go to Joran’s for sex, told Joran she was a lesbian, told him her mom was Hitler’s sister, told him she lived on a plantation and black people worked for them, asked if Deepak and Satish were slaves, wanted to go see sharks, wanted to go to the beach, left her shoes with Jorans, wanted to have sex with Joran on the beach but he had no condom, asked him to stay all night, wanted to stay alone on the beach, or wasn’t drugged. All things completely out of character for Natalee. What a coincidence, only happened when with those 3.

When Natalee doesn’t show up for 18 months and had no ID on her, no money, no passport, no food, no transportation, no personel items, no phone, no clothes, and noone seen her since she left CnC with those 3 and No Proof they were ever at the beach, and they have all lied repeatedly, why would I believe Natalee did any of those things they said. Paulus called her a body the day after she disappeared. How did he know no body, no case? Why didn’t they look for her? Why would they lie about a girls last hours when finding her could be life and death? Why would they frame 2 men for kidnapping and murder and let them sit in jail, until it was proven, Natalee didn’t return to her hotel? Please don’t tell me they were afraid. I bet they weren’t half afraid as Natalee was once she left CnC that night! This might be normal behaviour where you live, but it sure isn’t in my neighborhood.

NO EVIDENCE…. no body searches, no house searches, car searches, property searches for 10 days…even when the cops knew the first night they were lying when Joran said I don’t even know her or her name. There was a reason they had to get everyone away from the VDS residence that night Beth showed up, otherwise you call your son and say the cops are here to speak to you , get your arse home. They went to the Holiday Inn and couldn’t point out the guards who got Natalee, a woman said the guards here do not wear dark clothing. No coroboration for anything they say that night and they are proven liars. Deepak called Joran and asked him if he went to school, but he can’t remember the answer. However in great detail he can tell you the mph he was doing that night and the locations he was driving that speed, he can even tell you what number his radio was set on. One time Satish drove to CnC and the next Deepak drove.
Joran had to call Deepak while he was at the police station to ask him what Natalee was wearing, however a few days later he can describe Natalee’s private parts and underwear in detail. Deepak’s phone don’t work, when it helps their stories, otherwise he’s getting calls. Deepak says they have all been in the same room having sex with tourists before, Joran says he’s never seen Satish or Deepak with a girl. They say Joran is usually the one who gets the girls attention when they go out. Tell me this isn’t a plan?!

BTW great cartoon Vanderbilt, it’s enough to make you lock the doors and board up the windows if they come to the door in these masks. Who would want their daughters, if they had any respect for them, around that group of people or anyone like them?! 20 times before one should have plenty of practice. I live in America too and if this was your daughter, these would be your number 1 suspects in your book also.

Comment by Maggie | October 28, 2006, 8:38 pm

[nonesuche]

great post buckeye, hope kbm responds

kbm, how often do you speak with Sanders Gottenbos, by phone or email or IM?

thank you.

[LilPuma]

Thanks for posting that entry from Maggie, Buckeye!  Very well said.  

Beth has always said go back to the first few days/weeks.  That tells the whole story and makes Joran look guilty, with support from his friends, family and the Aruban authorities.  They were not concerned about finding "the girl".  They were concerned about getting into trouble.  Even Joran states this.  If Joran were innocent, finding Natalee would be TOP priority -- to prove he did nothing to her.  Not concocting stories, worrying about cell phones and computers, or sitting around the pool deciding whether or not it's in Joran's best interest to tell the truth.  What would have been in Joran's best interest at that point, to get him OUT of trouble, would have been to tell the truth and find Natalee or evidence of what happened to her.  They didn't do that because HE IS NOT INNOCENT!  
The police knew they were lying the first night.  They did not immediately search them, their homes and cars.  They were not confronted with their lies, except by those darn Americans, which is when Paulus stopped the conversations to protect his INNOCENT??? son?   Paulus says "no body, no case".  Arlene tells us without forensics, prosecution is unlikely.  So the Aruban police monitor cell phones and computers rather than looking for hard evidence on the person of JVDS and in the homes and cars.  Then the judge won't allow a search of the main house.  There you have the whole perception of this case.  Joran is guilty and the authorities covered it up.  Everything we've seen and heard since then corroborates this.  Joran was still tweaking his stories this spring, he and his American attorney are telling different stories, and Aruban authorities are still juggling rumors and facts like circus clowns.  What intelligent and innocent human being would sit around the pool discussing what each of them told police, discussing whether or not to tell the truth, when the truth is what would get them off the hook.  IF THEY WERE INNOCENT.

[LilPuma]

Sorry about the rant, but I'm hoping that KBM will begin to see and understand why we believe that Joran is guilty and a coverup has taken place.  I would love it if he had some information that would help us separate fact from fiction in this case.

[kbm]

hello lil puma and buckeye.
you say that if they told the truth they were off the hook (if they told that they were the last know person seeing her....then it automatically gets worse for them) thats why i think they lied (so that they wree not the last know persone who saw her). and yeh they lied a lot thats true. and i also think that that the "truth" was better than the lies.

And its true right "no body, no case"??

but do you really think that 3young man (maybe more ppl and the elders) can commit such a good crime. and can hide a body so good. and can make natalee dissapear for so many monts even though there was so much investigation and reseach.?? and then the next day they lie so easy to the police....and the statements are different.
(i think if you can make a body disapear so proffesional.....it isnt difficult to have a good lie and all 3 have the same statements.)(if they did it they also would have proffesional lies, it think)
so in other words if they really commited the dissapearing why would they lie so easy about it???

[Buckeye]

hello lil puma and buckeye.
you say that if they told the truth they were off the hook (if they told that they were the last know person seeing her....then it automatically gets worse for them) thats why i think they lied (so that they wree not the last know persone who saw her). and yeh they lied a lot thats true. and i also think that that the "truth" was better than the lies.

And its true right "no body, no case"??

but do you really think that 3young man (maybe more ppl and the elders) can commit such a good crime. and can hide a body so good. and can make natalee dissapear for so many monts even though there was so much investigation and reseach.?? and then the next day they lie so easy to the police....and the statements are different.
(i think if you can make a body disapear so proffesional.....it isnt difficult to have a good lie and all 3 have the same statements.)(if they did it they also would have proffesional lies, it think)
so in other words if they really commited the dissapearing why would they lie so easy about it???

First of all, they were the last ones seen with Natalee.  If they were innocent, they would have tried like heck to find her.
I believe this was the usual hook up with an American but this time something went bad.  Either Joran was with her alone, or was with her in an area with older people with connections.  The k2 were told to leave or Satish was scared so they did leave.
Joran told his dad what happened or his dad was there.  If no involvement why mention her body (the next day).  Why not say "that crazy girl" or that American??  Why talk of a BODY??
I do believe certain friends of Paulus knew but all concerned felt it was better for the island not to say. They never dreamed it would get this big.
It doesn't take much to get rid of anything in the ocean or even the landfill. JMO
What did you think of the FP poster's response above??

[kbm]

hello lil puma and buckeye.
you say that if they told the truth they were off the hook (if they told that they were the last know person seeing her....then it automatically gets worse for them) thats why i think they lied (so that they wree not the last know persone who saw her). and yeh they lied a lot thats true. and i also think that that the "truth" was better than the lies.

And its true right "no body, no case"??

but do you really think that 3young man (maybe more ppl and the elders) can commit such a good crime. and can hide a body so good. and can make natalee dissapear for so many monts even though there was so much investigation and reseach.?? and then the next day they lie so easy to the police....and the statements are different.
(i think if you can make a body disapear so proffesional.....it isnt difficult to have a good lie and all 3 have the same statements.)(if they did it they also would have proffesional lies, it think)
so in other words if they really commited the dissapearing why would they lie so easy about it???

First of all, they were the last ones seen with Natalee.  If they were innocent, they would have tried like heck to find her.
I believe this was the usual hook up with an American but this time something went bad.  Either Joran was with her alone, or was with her in an area with older people with connections.  The k2 were told to leave or Satish was scared so they did leave.
Joran told his dad what happened or his dad was there.  If no involvement why mention her body (the next day).  Why not say "that crazy girl" or that American??  Why talk of a BODY??
I do believe certain friends of Paulus knew but all concerned felt it was better for the island not to say. They never dreamed it would get this big.
It doesn't take much to get rid of anything in the ocean or even the landfill. JMO
What did you think of the FP poster's response above??

why not mention its a body.........if she lives she can tell the tuth herself...and if she died then its a body. he only said no body, no case.
but still i think if they did it then why would they lie so easy

[kbm]

The Harriet Report
What Really Happened to Natalee Holloway?

Many people don't wanna hear about what really happened to Natalee because they don't wanna take their blindfold off about Natalee not being the sweet little innocent girl Beth has made her out to be.


i think she's kinda right.....and maybe her theory is also possible, i dont know.

what i do know is that Beth tries to make Natalee as sweet as possible.

[Carnut]

The Harriet Report
What Really Happened to Natalee Holloway?

Many people don't wanna hear about what really happened to Natalee because they don't wanna take their blindfold off about Natalee not being the sweet little innocent girl Beth has made her out to be.


i think she's kinda right.....and maybe her theory is also possible, i dont know.

what i do know is that Beth tries to make Natalee as sweet as possible.

Sorry KBM, but that's just unmitigated propoganda.

[Buckeye]

There would be no reason for a lie if they did nothing.
Some people have a very easy time lying.  I think Joran was the last of the three with her (and they all admit that) and maybe both of the Kalpos don't know the truth.  Lucky for them that there were two of them.  With Paulus's connections, one of them would have been charged.  When Natalee's dad spoke to Paulus, Paulus did not say "hey look, you've got the wrong guy, Joran is innocent...".  He said, with tears in his eyes, "I would do anything for my son".  That's one of the few things he has said that I believe.  He even said he had daily contact with Van der Stratten.  If it was you, would your dad have gotten to meet daily (and secretly) with the chief??

[mrs. red]

SO KBM - why did your aruban people come on american t.v. and say they are guilty?

tito said it, dompig said, steve cohen said it,  it was said by even the aruban people... so why does everyone buy the bull that she ran away?

[mrs. red]

OH .. and I wanted to add one more thing....

if there were pictures of natalee like harriet said.... the National Enquirer would have bought them a long time ago and they would have been published... y'all don't get it... it's too easy to find the truth except from your three friends...

[kbm]

There would be no reason for a lie if they did nothing.
Some people have a very easy time lying.  I think Joran was the last of the three with her (and they all admit that) and maybe both of the Kalpos don't know the truth.  Lucky for them that there were two of them.  With Paulus's connections, one of them would have been charged.  When Natalee's dad spoke to Paulus, Paulus did not say "hey look, you've got the wrong guy, Joran is innocent...".  He said, with tears in his eyes, "I would do anything for my son".  That's one of the few things he has said that I believe.  He even said he had daily contact with Van der Stratten.  If it was you, would your dad have gotten to meet daily (and secretly) with the chief??

yes off course...i would want all the information about the case and the updates. if she was found then she could tell that joran is innocent.

but still i want the awser of what i asked about why they would lie.

[kbm]

SO KBM - why did your aruban people come on american t.v. and say they are guilty?

tito said it, dompig said, steve cohen said it,  it was said by even the aruban people... so why does everyone buy the bull that she ran away?

yeh but everybody has their opinion.

[Carnut]

There would be no reason for a lie if they did nothing.
Some people have a very easy time lying.  I think Joran was the last of the three with her (and they all admit that) and maybe both of the Kalpos don't know the truth.  Lucky for them that there were two of them.  With Paulus's connections, one of them would have been charged.  When Natalee's dad spoke to Paulus, Paulus did not say "hey look, you've got the wrong guy, Joran is innocent...".  He said, with tears in his eyes, "I would do anything for my son".  That's one of the few things he has said that I believe.  He even said he had daily contact with Van der Stratten.  If it was you, would your dad have gotten to meet daily (and secretly) with the chief??

yes off course...i would want all the information about the case and the updates. if she was found then she could tell that joran is innocent.

but still i want the awser of what i asked about why they would lie.

Guess it boils down to we think they lied because they were guilty of something.

You think they lied because they didn't do anything.

[kbm]

OH .. and I wanted to add one more thing....

if there were pictures of natalee like harriet said.... the National Enquirer would have bought them a long time ago and they would have been published... y'all don't get it... it's too easy to find the truth except from your three friends...

no maybe harried lied about that i dont know.
and if j2k would be really unguilty, than how can they tell the truth that you like too hear

[kbm]

There would be no reason for a lie if they did nothing.
Some people have a very easy time lying.  I think Joran was the last of the three with her (and they all admit that) and maybe both of the Kalpos don't know the truth.  Lucky for them that there were two of them.  With Paulus's connections, one of them would have been charged.  When Natalee's dad spoke to Paulus, Paulus did not say "hey look, you've got the wrong guy, Joran is innocent...".  He said, with tears in his eyes, "I would do anything for my son".  That's one of the few things he has said that I believe.  He even said he had daily contact with Van der Stratten.  If it was you, would your dad have gotten to meet daily (and secretly) with the chief??

yes off course...i would want all the information about the case and the updates. if she was found then she could tell that joran is innocent.

but still i want the awser of what i asked about why they would lie.

Guess it boils down to we think they lied because they were guilty of something.

You think they lied because they didn't do anything.

yeh but why would they lie so "unproffesional" if they commiteded such a "proffesional" crime

[kbm]

but im going off again i just had a break from studying