Natalee Case Discussion #809 3/19/09 - 3/21/09

[Anna]

Can the dog and the handler swim?   

I understand your confusion Mere!  The test that Golba describes in the interviews just doesn't make sense with the pond full of water, JMO.  It is stated that the water is 15ft deep in places; first I've ever heard of that in regards to the Monserat pond.

 

You can see the tops of the grass just under the surface of the water.  Unless that is fifteen foot grass, I'd say it is still VERY shallow just as it has always been.  Klye said three feet and less.

[texasmom]

multi-tasking wonder dog?

Beautiful dog!  

[oldiebutgoodie]

Can the dog and the handler swim?  

If we know when the dry season is, doesn't it stand to reason that Fred might have inquired as well?

Wouldn't it also follow that every local knows this reservoir is seasonally dry and so anything put into it would risk exposure within a few months?  Perhaps someone who fle down to Aruba might not but those who live there year around would surely be fully aware of this.

I would think a more permanent body of water would be a better choice for concealment of anything but again that's just me.

I just researched the rainy season is technically between October and January but the place is rather like a desert.  Annual average rainfall is 17 inches total.  So where does the water in that "pond" come from if not rain?  I remember discussion about there being a drainage system of some sort there.

How long does it take for a pond to dry up?

[Frijole]

Maybe it's one of those Portuguese Water dogs?!!

I'm tracking with you Janet on the "maybe Aruba decided it's time to plant the body somewhere for easy transfer back to the US".  So the pond is full.  Are they going to put the bones in something that floats to make it easier for them to locate?  LOL  Or maybe they'll conveniently be placed at the waters edge?  This is insane.

[Magnolia]

Once again, the pond was completely empty and supposedly a shoe was recovered. Why the hell are they re-searching this pond for remains and a shoe??????????????

And have a cadaver dog looking for a shoe?

Is the shoe dead?  Is it giving off the two enzymes that a deceased body does that activates the training of cadaver dogs?

I don't think so but then wouldn't want to be accused of not upholding all these people would I?

I think taking advantage of this family applies to many in this regard including those who are constantly trying to inject themselves into this situation where they so obviously do not belong.  Exploiting a parent's concern is not what I consider upholding.  But that's just me.


.

I could not agree more. It is said that Dave is only doing this to be 100% certain she is not in the pond. The ONLY reason that he is doing this is because Caps (and his FOLLOWERS) have created enough hub bub and non-sense to make a desperate father grasp at straws. It is reprehensible. -JMO

Yes, I definitely agree!...
Not to mention that caps and followers have distracted the efforts of the persistence search....
When I think of the relationship btwn John S. and Caps....it pi$$es me off BIG TIME!!!

AHhhhh, but Fred Golba and his dog have taken the spotlight off of Silvetti, Kyle and Caps for the time being.

I am still focused

 

Magnolia ... I contend it is all connected.

I do believe that Aruba is about to give back Natalee Holloway's remains to her family.  However ... the origin of those remains cannot be revealed.  The trap discovered by the Persistence implies Joran van der Sloot did not act alone in the disposal of Natalee Holloway's body.  Therefore the remains taken from the trap must be planted in another location and a witness that implicates only Joran must materialize.

Think about it.

Joran was seventeen years old ... a minor ... on May 30, 2005.  Justice implies he will receive a slap on the wrist.

Paulus will admit he lied about picking up Joran but ... there will be no consequences for obstruction of the investigation.  Apparently ... family members who obstruct the investigation are given a pass by Dutch law.

Case Closed!

Janet

+++++++

‘The Abrams Report’ for June 30
updated 10:30 a.m. PT, Fri., July. 1, 2005

ARLENE ELLIS-SCHIPPER, ARUBAN ATTORNEY: Well basically obstruction of justice is a criminal offense in our criminal code. However, there is an exoneration for family members in the first degree. So in the case of Mr. Van der Sloot it would not apply.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8430777

Janet,
That has been my hope since I first heard of the man and the dog on a plane to Aruba.
If Natalee were my child, I would want her home reguarless of who brought her home.

[Blue Moon]

Maybe it's one of those Portuguese Water dogs?!!

I'm tracking with you Janet on the "maybe Aruba decided it's time to plant the body somewhere for easy transfer back to the US".  So the pond is full.  Are they going to put the bones in something that floats to make it easier for them to locate?  LOL  Or maybe they'll conveniently be placed at the waters edge?  This is insane.

They will be in those zip lok bags we saw from the Rov pictures.

[Anna]

Maybe it's one of those Portuguese Water dogs?!!

I'm tracking with you Janet on the "maybe Aruba decided it's time to plant the body somewhere for easy transfer back to the US".  So the pond is full.  Are they going to put the bones in something that floats to make it easier for them to locate?  LOL  Or maybe they'll conveniently be placed at the waters edge?  This is insane.

I thought it was a rather unique touch as well on the part of Caps a/k/a WLC to use the device of Joran dismembering Natalee and scattering the remains all over the island.  This way they can be found just about anywhere, right?

[Frijole]

Maybe it's one of those Portuguese Water dogs?!!

I'm tracking with you Janet on the "maybe Aruba decided it's time to plant the body somewhere for easy transfer back to the US".  So the pond is full.  Are they going to put the bones in something that floats to make it easier for them to locate?  LOL  Or maybe they'll conveniently be placed at the waters edge?  This is insane.

They will be in those zip lok bags we saw from the Rov pictures.

DUH!  I should have known that!

[Tamikosmom]

Can the dog and the handler swim?   

I understand your confusion Mere!  The test that Golba describes in the interviews just doesn't make sense with the pond full of water, JMO.  It is stated that the water is 15ft deep in places; first I've ever heard of that in regards to the Monserat pond.

 

I do believe Fred Golba is missing a forearm.  He is planning on sticking his 15 foot upper arm into the pond and ... feeling around with his elbow for bones and a shoe.

 

Janet

+++++++

Chicopee Man Leading Search for Natalee Holloway
Posted: March 20, 2009 03:20 PM PDT
Updated: March 21, 2009 08:37 AM PDT
By: Elizabeth Corridan

CHICOPEE, Mass. (abc40) -- There is a new lead in the case for missing teen Natalee Holloway and a Chicopee man is leading the investigation.  Fred Golba runs Coast to Coast Canine.  He specializes in finding bodies and has found hundreds of remains around the World.  Golba is also the Chief of Field Operations for the Natalee Holloway Foundation.  He has been searching for the girl since she went missing in 2005. 

Friday, Golba left for his ninth trip to Aruba on behalf of the Holloway family.  In an exclusive interview with abc40, Golba says a witness has just come forward with new information about lead suspect Joran van der Sloot.  He says the person saw van der Sloot the night Natalee went missing, covered to his chest in mud and missing a sneaker.  Golba says that according to the witness, van der Sloot dumped Natalee's body in pond near the hotel where she was last seen.

Golda plans to comb the Aruban pond for any signs of Natalee's remains or van der Sloot's sneaker.  He says, "I want to stick in my arm from my elbow to my shoulder and feel for bones and Joran's sneaker...If we can find that sneaker in there than that whole pond becomes a crime scene and changes the playing game."

He is cautiously optimistic about the prospects of finding Natalee saying, "I have more confidence in this pond than anything I've ever done in the eight trips I've been on this island...There is a possibility of finding skeletal remains of Natalee Holloway in there."

It will not be an easy job.  The pond is a black abyss, 15 feet deep at parts.  Golba will rely on his dog Rhino to assist.  Rhino is certified in detecting human remains.  Golba says, "If I miss it by hand, hopefully he'll pick it up by scent."     

Golba describes his knack for searching as a gift from God.   A gift he cannot ignore or abandon. While he has embarked on thousands of endeavors similar to his quest to find Natalee Holloway, he says "It's not about how many searches you do it's about how many successes you have."

http://www.abc40tv.com/Global/story.asp?S=10045093

[Blue Moon]

Mags, I agree with you.  I do believe at this point Dave and Beth would give it all up just to bring Natalee home and put her to rest.  I believe that is ALL they want now.  Aruba will never do a thing with J2K and Paulus.

[texasmom]

Can the dog and the handler swim?  

If we know when the dry season is, doesn't it stand to reason that Fred might have inquired as well?

Wouldn't it also follow that every local knows this reservoir is seasonally dry and so anything put into it would risk exposure within a few months?  Perhaps someone who fle down to Aruba might not but those who live there year around would surely be fully aware of this.

I would think a more permanent body of water would be a better choice for concealment of anything but again that's just me.

Plus, Golba says in the interview that Joran supposedly waded out into the pond and just let Natalee's body go!  Doesn't make sense at all.  No mention of weighting down...being in a container of any type etc.  With all the searches that took place...helicopter's floying over etc. a body discarded in this way wouldn't have been discovered?    

 

[Tamikosmom]

Maybe it's one of those Portuguese Water dogs?!!

I'm tracking with you Janet on the "maybe Aruba decided it's time to plant the body somewhere for easy transfer back to the US".  So the pond is full.  Are they going to put the bones in something that floats to make it easier for them to locate?  LOL  Or maybe they'll conveniently be placed at the waters edge?  This is insane.

They will be in those zip lok bags we saw from the Rov pictures.

    

[Anna]

Maybe it's one of those Portuguese Water dogs?!!

I'm tracking with you Janet on the "maybe Aruba decided it's time to plant the body somewhere for easy transfer back to the US".  So the pond is full.  Are they going to put the bones in something that floats to make it easier for them to locate?  LOL  Or maybe they'll conveniently be placed at the waters edge?  This is insane.

They will be in those zip lok bags we saw from the Rov pictures.

Still?  Probably the same ones, too.

[texasmom]

Can the dog and the handler swim?   

I understand your confusion Mere!  The test that Golba describes in the interviews just doesn't make sense with the pond full of water, JMO.  It is stated that the water is 15ft deep in places; first I've ever heard of that in regards to the Monserat pond.

 

I do believe Fred Golba is missing a forearm.  He is planning on sticking his 15 foot upper arm into the pond and ... feeling around with his elbow for bones and a shoe.

 

Janet

+++++++

Chicopee Man Leading Search for Natalee Holloway
Posted: March 20, 2009 03:20 PM PDT
Updated: March 21, 2009 08:37 AM PDT
By: Elizabeth Corridan

CHICOPEE, Mass. (abc40) -- There is a new lead in the case for missing teen Natalee Holloway and a Chicopee man is leading the investigation.  Fred Golba runs Coast to Coast Canine.  He specializes in finding bodies and has found hundreds of remains around the World.  Golba is also the Chief of Field Operations for the Natalee Holloway Foundation.  He has been searching for the girl since she went missing in 2005. 

Friday, Golba left for his ninth trip to Aruba on behalf of the Holloway family.  In an exclusive interview with abc40, Golba says a witness has just come forward with new information about lead suspect Joran van der Sloot.  He says the person saw van der Sloot the night Natalee went missing, covered to his chest in mud and missing a sneaker.  Golba says that according to the witness, van der Sloot dumped Natalee's body in pond near the hotel where she was last seen.

Golda plans to comb the Aruban pond for any signs of Natalee's remains or van der Sloot's sneaker.  He says, "I want to stick in my arm from my elbow to my shoulder and feel for bones and Joran's sneaker...If we can find that sneaker in there than that whole pond becomes a crime scene and changes the playing game."

He is cautiously optimistic about the prospects of finding Natalee saying, "I have more confidence in this pond than anything I've ever done in the eight trips I've been on this island...There is a possibility of finding skeletal remains of Natalee Holloway in there."

It will not be an easy job.  The pond is a black abyss, 15 feet deep at parts.  Golba will rely on his dog Rhino to assist.  Rhino is certified in detecting human remains.  Golba says, "If I miss it by hand, hopefully he'll pick it up by scent."     

Golba describes his knack for searching as a gift from God.   A gift he cannot ignore or abandon. While he has embarked on thousands of endeavors similar to his quest to find Natalee Holloway, he says "It's not about how many searches you do it's about how many successes you have."

http://www.abc40tv.com/Global/story.asp?S=10045093

Thank you Janet!  

[Frijole]

Some of this just has to be poor reporting.  This can't all be factual.   

It will not be an easy job.  The pond is a black abyss, 15 feet deep at parts.  Golba will rely on his dog Rhino to assist.  Rhino is certified in detecting human remains.  Golba says, "If I miss it by hand, hopefully he'll pick it up by scent."     

So poor Rhino has to dive underwater and BREATHE to find a scent?!!  Man, that dog is talented.  Or lucky.

[Tamikosmom]

Maybe it's one of those Portuguese Water dogs?!!

I'm tracking with you Janet on the "maybe Aruba decided it's time to plant the body somewhere for easy transfer back to the US".  So the pond is full.  Are they going to put the bones in something that floats to make it easier for them to locate?  LOL  Or maybe they'll conveniently be placed at the waters edge?  This is insane.

 

It has been a long day Frijole.

Janet

[Mere]

Wonder if there are canoe rentals in Aruba?   

[Magnolia]

Some of this just has to be poor reporting.  This can't all be factual.   

It will not be an easy job.  The pond is a black abyss, 15 feet deep at parts.  Golba will rely on his dog Rhino to assist.  Rhino is certified in detecting human remains.  Golba says, "If I miss it by hand, hopefully he'll pick it up by scent."     

So poor Rhino has to dive underwater and BREATHE to find a scent?!!  Man, that dog is talented.  Or lucky.

Rhino is a snorkeler.

[Lifesong]

Maybe it's one of those Portuguese Water dogs?!!

I'm tracking with you Janet on the "maybe Aruba decided it's time to plant the body somewhere for easy transfer back to the US".  So the pond is full.  Are they going to put the bones in something that floats to make it easier for them to locate?  LOL  Or maybe they'll conveniently be placed at the waters edge?  This is insane.

They will be in those zip lok bags we saw from the Rov pictures.

    

I so hope that Aruba is about to give Natalee back.  Unfortunately, I don't think they are smart enough to do it.

They need to give her back, and then Close the Case.

Then the family/JQK can get the case file... and we'll get Joran brought to Justice without ALE...there's more than one way to skin a cat.

Give her back and Close the Case, Aruba...before Mos leaves.  Hmmm...maybe.

[Anna]

Can the dog and the handler swim?  

If we know when the dry season is, doesn't it stand to reason that Fred might have inquired as well?

Wouldn't it also follow that every local knows this reservoir is seasonally dry and so anything put into it would risk exposure within a few months?  Perhaps someone who fle down to Aruba might not but those who live there year around would surely be fully aware of this.

I would think a more permanent body of water would be a better choice for concealment of anything but again that's just me.

Plus, Golba says in the interview that Joran supposedly waded out into the pond and just let Natalee's body go!  Doesn't make sense at all.  No mention of weighting down...being in a container of any type etc.  With all the searches that took place...helicopter's floying over etc. a body discarded in this way wouldn't have been discovered?    

 

 

Flotation.  How would that be prevented?


Being dry season there probably was not much water in the pond at that time so what happened to her body when it was dry the next time?  That has to be a pretty solid bottom from drying out several times a year.  Are they suggesting that the mud would cover or conceal something as large as a human being?

This story just doesn't make sense at all.