Lively Case Discussion #536 10/24 - 10/25/2006

[Lala'sMom]

KBM
Maybe if you are still here or will answer later.
Please understand this...all of us here and even those that have left have looked at just about everything under the sun to find out what happened to Natalee.  What I want you to do, if you truly believe that Joran and the Kalpoes are not guilty of anything is this... SHOW US! That is all I have ever asked of anyone that claims that someone else is involved or that she was left sleeping on the beach.  Just explain all the inconsistencies in the Kalpoes statements and Joran's.  Explain why Paulus contradicts  his own claims in his statements.  The stories are not matching up for anyone that is innocent.  I am very willing to entertain the thought that others were involved, just need to SEE it with my own eyes.  

Tell me where the proof of innocence of the suspects is here?  I am waiting, really I am...I just want you to backup what you say with proof that there is absolutely no way that Joran and the others are not involved.  Explain why van der Straaten claimed to have seen evidence that Natalee was dead.  Explain why the prosecutor charged people with premeditated murder and heavy battery.  All I want is for someone to convince me WITH PROOF.  

Explain to me why if you are from a well to do family on the island and surely you must know some of these people.  We have seen the photos of the people you are with in them...surely you know who Lorenzo van Rijn is.  He is from a well to do family also.  Surely you know who this Hiram guy must be, it is a small island.  Doesn't everyone down there know everyone else?  I find it impossible, after all this time and if you read here often, that you can not explain all these things to us or can't find out anything from those on the island.  

I appreciate your input and want to be convinced that there are other people involved in this besides Joran, Paulus and the usual suspects.

[robots]

[
robots are cool

i guess im cool        

And sweeter than Tupelo Honey!  

.

 

[kbm]

Hi kbm - Nice to see you again today. It must seem that we are overwhelming you with questions.

I have a few questions about you.

What are your future plans? Do they involve staying on Aruba, or might you try The Netherlands? Or elsewhere?

Do you have a career in mind?

Or similarly (if you don't want to reveal that much personal information) - What opportunities are available on Aruba that appeal most to young people like yourself?

It is interesting that you joined our discussion. How did you find this site?

Do you hope to gain information here?
If so, I strongly urge you to read the statements we have from some of those who were questioned during the Summer of 2005. (Suggestion: Read them in order, by date.) Here is a link to the statements:

http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewforum.php?f=6

Also, I would like to assure you that in the U.S., insurance scams are difficult to do, especially one involving a missing (probably dead) person, and especially if that missing person is still legally a "minor" - dependent on his/her parents.

In let's say 99% of our families, any life insurance benefit on a dependent is very small, probably about $5,000 US$. Traditionally it is just to help cover funeral expenses, and most parents don't bother - it's just too unplesant to think about.

AND - If there is "no body", there is a long waiting period -- at least seven years I think, maybe more -- and then a legal process to go through to have the court declare the person legally dead. Not until after all of that has happened can even a small life insurance claim be paid.

Further, unlike Mexico and possibly other Latin American countries, kidnapping for money is not an on-going "professional" activity here. I have heard that some extremely wealthy Americans (that other 1%) insure all family members against kidnapping, but Natalee's family is not wealthy. Her parents, step-parents, aunts, uncles - all work. As best as I can tell, none of them are "executives". Beth has special qualifications to work as a teacher of children with speech problems. Dave sells insurance.

Thank you for joining us.

uhm i think i stay on aruba, studying economics.
and yeh about the insurance i think thats true yeh

[sharon]

Hi blah...

Do you really think he would speak the truth?

Doubtful...

Very good (and practical) point there Jacquie

[snoopy]

Good Morning Everybody!!  

KBM  In some of the statements by J2K, one of them, (Joron I think) say that they had done this 20 times and nothing bad happened.  What were there normal routine practices with tourist girls?  Have you ever seen videos of their "conquests"?

Had Joron ever taken girls to his apartment or was their activities limited to only a vehicle.  Did they have a hotel that they usually went to?

Who was usually in the group?

Was Freddy usually the cameraman?

TIA

[blah]

Hi kbm - Nice to see you again today. It must seem that we are overwhelming you with questions.

I have a few questions about you.

What are your future plans? Do they involve staying on Aruba, or might you try The Netherlands? Or elsewhere?

Do you have a career in mind?

Or similarly (if you don't want to reveal that much personal information) - What opportunities are available on Aruba that appeal most to young people like yourself?

It is interesting that you joined our discussion. How did you find this site?

Do you hope to gain information here?
If so, I strongly urge you to read the statements we have from some of those who were questioned during the Summer of 2005. (Suggestion: Read them in order, by date.) Here is a link to the statements:

http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewforum.php?f=6

Also, I would like to assure you that in the U.S., insurance scams are difficult to do, especially one involving a missing (probably dead) person, and especially if that missing person is still legally a "minor" - dependent on his/her parents.

In let's say 99% of our families, any life insurance benefit on a dependent is very small, probably about $5,000 US$. Traditionally it is just to help cover funeral expenses, and most parents don't bother - it's just too unplesant to think about.

AND - If there is "no body", there is a long waiting period -- at least seven years I think, maybe more -- and then a legal process to go through to have the court declare the person legally dead. Not until after all of that has happened can even a small life insurance claim be paid.

Further, unlike Mexico and possibly other Latin American countries, kidnapping for money is not an on-going "professional" activity here. I have heard that some extremely wealthy Americans (that other 1%) insure all family members against kidnapping, but Natalee's family is not wealthy. Her parents, step-parents, aunts, uncles - all work. As best as I can tell, none of them are "executives". Beth has special qualifications to work as a teacher of children with speech problems. Dave sells insurance.

Thank you for joining us.

uhm i think i stay on aruba, studying economics.
and yeh about the insurance i think thats true yeh

I'm pretty sure that last night you said you were studying in Holland last year.  Which is it now?

[Anna]

Have a good day, Monkeys.  TTYL.  Have to get going before the life is over and I missed it.  Check with you before Christmas.

What do you mean before Christmas?  You can't go any where and have to keep posting.  It's in the rules!  

[kbm]

Good Morning Everybody!!  

KBM  In some of the statements by J2K, one of them, (Joron I think) say that they had done this 20 times and nothing bad happened.  What were there normal routine practices with tourist girls?  Have you ever seen videos of their "conquests"?

Had Joron ever taken girls to his apartment or was their activities limited to only a vehicle.  Did they have a hotel that they usually went to?

Who was usually in the group?

Was Freddy usually the cameraman?

TIA

i really dont know

[msmarple]

All Off Topic:

Christmas TWO months from today!

John Mark Karr has left Atlanta and the State of Georgia.

Wanted to share this Panda Update:

Monday, October 23
Lun Lun has been receiving enrichment items in one of the adjacent dens. She especially likes puzzle feeders, which require her to manipulate an item to release biscuits and pieces of fruit. Yang Yang received some Halloween themed enrichment on Saturday for Boo at the Zoo. He had a carved pumpkin stuffed with Tabasco scented wood wool. Tabasco is one of his favorite scents. He also had a tub filled with water and apple pieces, so that he could bob for apples. However, he quickly figured out the he could just dump over the tub, and then eat the apples. Boo at the Zoo continues Oct. 28-29. So, Yang Yang will have more pumpkins and a ghost toy that he can wrestle.

Panda cam:
http://www.zooatlanta.com/animals_panda_cam.htm

[kbm]

Hi kbm - Nice to see you again today. It must seem that we are overwhelming you with questions.

I have a few questions about you.

What are your future plans? Do they involve staying on Aruba, or might you try The Netherlands? Or elsewhere?

Do you have a career in mind?

Or similarly (if you don't want to reveal that much personal information) - What opportunities are available on Aruba that appeal most to young people like yourself?

It is interesting that you joined our discussion. How did you find this site?

Do you hope to gain information here?
If so, I strongly urge you to read the statements we have from some of those who were questioned during the Summer of 2005. (Suggestion: Read them in order, by date.) Here is a link to the statements:

http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewforum.php?f=6

Also, I would like to assure you that in the U.S., insurance scams are difficult to do, especially one involving a missing (probably dead) person, and especially if that missing person is still legally a "minor" - dependent on his/her parents.

In let's say 99% of our families, any life insurance benefit on a dependent is very small, probably about $5,000 US$. Traditionally it is just to help cover funeral expenses, and most parents don't bother - it's just too unplesant to think about.

AND - If there is "no body", there is a long waiting period -- at least seven years I think, maybe more -- and then a legal process to go through to have the court declare the person legally dead. Not until after all of that has happened can even a small life insurance claim be paid.

Further, unlike Mexico and possibly other Latin American countries, kidnapping for money is not an on-going "professional" activity here. I have heard that some extremely wealthy Americans (that other 1%) insure all family members against kidnapping, but Natalee's family is not wealthy. Her parents, step-parents, aunts, uncles - all work. As best as I can tell, none of them are "executives". Beth has special qualifications to work as a teacher of children with speech problems. Dave sells insurance.

Thank you for joining us.

uhm i think i stay on aruba, studying economics.
and yeh about the insurance i think thats true yeh

I'm pretty sure that last night you said you were studying in Holland last year.  Which is it now?

yeh last year i was studying in holland. but now here

[blah]

Hi kbm - Nice to see you again today. It must seem that we are overwhelming you with questions.

I have a few questions about you.

What are your future plans? Do they involve staying on Aruba, or might you try The Netherlands? Or elsewhere?

Do you have a career in mind?

Or similarly (if you don't want to reveal that much personal information) - What opportunities are available on Aruba that appeal most to young people like yourself?

It is interesting that you joined our discussion. How did you find this site?

Do you hope to gain information here?
If so, I strongly urge you to read the statements we have from some of those who were questioned during the Summer of 2005. (Suggestion: Read them in order, by date.) Here is a link to the statements:

http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewforum.php?f=6

Also, I would like to assure you that in the U.S., insurance scams are difficult to do, especially one involving a missing (probably dead) person, and especially if that missing person is still legally a "minor" - dependent on his/her parents.

In let's say 99% of our families, any life insurance benefit on a dependent is very small, probably about $5,000 US$. Traditionally it is just to help cover funeral expenses, and most parents don't bother - it's just too unplesant to think about.

AND - If there is "no body", there is a long waiting period -- at least seven years I think, maybe more -- and then a legal process to go through to have the court declare the person legally dead. Not until after all of that has happened can even a small life insurance claim be paid.

Further, unlike Mexico and possibly other Latin American countries, kidnapping for money is not an on-going "professional" activity here. I have heard that some extremely wealthy Americans (that other 1%) insure all family members against kidnapping, but Natalee's family is not wealthy. Her parents, step-parents, aunts, uncles - all work. As best as I can tell, none of them are "executives". Beth has special qualifications to work as a teacher of children with speech problems. Dave sells insurance.

Thank you for joining us.

uhm i think i stay on aruba, studying economics.
and yeh about the insurance i think thats true yeh

I'm pretty sure that last night you said you were studying in Holland last year.  Which is it now?

yeh last year i was studying in holland. but now here

yeah, i'm pretty sure you just some punk in here pulling peoples chains.

i'm done with this clown.

[kbm]

Hi kbm - Nice to see you again today. It must seem that we are overwhelming you with questions.

I have a few questions about you.

What are your future plans? Do they involve staying on Aruba, or might you try The Netherlands? Or elsewhere?

Do you have a career in mind?

Or similarly (if you don't want to reveal that much personal information) - What opportunities are available on Aruba that appeal most to young people like yourself?

It is interesting that you joined our discussion. How did you find this site?

Do you hope to gain information here?
If so, I strongly urge you to read the statements we have from some of those who were questioned during the Summer of 2005. (Suggestion: Read them in order, by date.) Here is a link to the statements:

http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewforum.php?f=6

Also, I would like to assure you that in the U.S., insurance scams are difficult to do, especially one involving a missing (probably dead) person, and especially if that missing person is still legally a "minor" - dependent on his/her parents.

In let's say 99% of our families, any life insurance benefit on a dependent is very small, probably about $5,000 US$. Traditionally it is just to help cover funeral expenses, and most parents don't bother - it's just too unplesant to think about.

AND - If there is "no body", there is a long waiting period -- at least seven years I think, maybe more -- and then a legal process to go through to have the court declare the person legally dead. Not until after all of that has happened can even a small life insurance claim be paid.

Further, unlike Mexico and possibly other Latin American countries, kidnapping for money is not an on-going "professional" activity here. I have heard that some extremely wealthy Americans (that other 1%) insure all family members against kidnapping, but Natalee's family is not wealthy. Her parents, step-parents, aunts, uncles - all work. As best as I can tell, none of them are "executives". Beth has special qualifications to work as a teacher of children with speech problems. Dave sells insurance.

Thank you for joining us.

uhm i think i stay on aruba, studying economics.
and yeh about the insurance i think thats true yeh

I'm pretty sure that last night you said you were studying in Holland last year.  Which is it now?

yeh last year i was studying in holland. but now here

yeah, i'm pretty sure you just some punk in here pulling peoples chains.

i'm done with this clown.

okeej

[snoopy]

Good Morning Everybody!!  

KBM  In some of the statements by J2K, one of them, (Joron I think) say that they had done this 20 times and nothing bad happened.  What were there normal routine practices with tourist girls?  Have you ever seen videos of their "conquests"?

Had Joron ever taken girls to his apartment or was their activities limited to only a vehicle.  Did they have a hotel that they usually went to?

Who was usually in the group?

Was Freddy usually the cameraman?

TIA

i really dont know

Thank you, and welcome to Scared Monkeys.

KBM.......stay away from these type of people.  Be a better man than them.  Be honorable.  Girls should not be treated like disposable trash.

[sharon]

 
Aruba thinks that if they can just keep telling the same tired old lie... the one created by who - Julia? ATA? - that eventually someone will believe it and then it will be back to business at hand...

they don't understand our system though.... the boycott isn't offical it's more like the everyday person saying I am not going there it's not safe... and of course all of those that write on our money... to boycott the island of aruba.... that will never let it go away until they 'fess up....

 

Let's just tell them that the unoffical boycott is over. If that's what they want to hear.

However, the bells of our 'personal choice' and the freedom to exercise it as Americans -- still rings loud and clear.  

I'm also printing Klaas' labels out on plain paper -- so you get a sheet of paper with 30 little blocks -- and I'm leaving those sheets in many places, so far;

bathrooms and restaurants at Miami International
CVS
post office
Nordstroms
Old Navy
The Gap
Ann Taylor Loft
and oh yeah -- I was at a restaurant on Brickell Ave Saturday night

         

[justinsmama]

uhm i think i stay on aruba, studying economics.
and yeh about the insurance i think thats true yeh

You are either incredibly naive or simply lying.

[sharon]

The truth is out there.

The X Files!!!

Oh -- wrong thread

       

[Anna]

is in da house!!

This is sort of off topic but there is an organization in Washington DC that is teaching young men the things they should have learned at home.  They have a series of posters.  In case it is too small to read, the first one says When She Was Drunk, I Backed Off and the second says when she said no, I said OK.





They have others as well.  Go into high schools and other places teaching the men's strength is not to be used to hurt, etc.

Guess I should put this information in a separate thread but think it is important as some don't seem to understand at all.

.

[justinsmama]

Joran Van Der Sloot is guilty of conspiracy to abduct and sexually assault Natalee Holloway; drugging, abducting and sexually assaulting Natalee Holloway; obstructing justice; and either murder or human trafficking.

[kbm]

KBM
Maybe if you are still here or will answer later.
Please understand this...all of us here and even those that have left have looked at just about everything under the sun to find out what happened to Natalee.  What I want you to do, if you truly believe that Joran and the Kalpoes are not guilty of anything is this... SHOW US! That is all I have ever asked of anyone that claims that someone else is involved or that she was left sleeping on the beach.  Just explain all the inconsistencies in the Kalpoes statements and Joran's.  Explain why Paulus contradicts  his own claims in his statements.  The stories are not matching up for anyone that is innocent.  I am very willing to entertain the thought that others were involved, just need to SEE it with my own eyes.  

Tell me where the proof of innocence of the suspects is here?  I am waiting, really I am...I just want you to backup what you say with proof that there is absolutely no way that Joran and the others are not involved.  Explain why van der Straaten claimed to have seen evidence that Natalee was dead.  Explain why the prosecutor charged people with premeditated murder and heavy battery.  All I want is for someone to convince me WITH PROOF.  

Explain to me why if you are from a well to do family on the island and surely you must know some of these people.  We have seen the photos of the people you are with in them...surely you know who Lorenzo van Rijn is.  He is from a well to do family also.  Surely you know who this Hiram guy must be, it is a small island.  Doesn't everyone down there know everyone else?  I find it impossible, after all this time and if you read here often, that you can not explain all these things to us or can't find out anything from those on the island.  

I appreciate your input and want to be convinced that there are other people involved in this besides Joran, Paulus and the usual suspects.

first of all i dont know lorenzo van rijn and hiram.(i dont know al the ppl that live here, even though its a small island)
and u only say that j2k are suspects because theire the last known persons that saw natalee and because theire lied etc etc.
but if u have a photo or video where u see that j2k is guilty of murdering natalee then ill believe you.

[justinsmama]

kbm~ If you can show me absolute, irrefutable proof that Natalee's family are guilty of insurance fraud, then I will believe you.

Is SandrK enjoying her visit?