Natalee Case Discussion #810 3/21/09 - 3/24/09

[texasmom]

Morning guys!  I tried to find any updates on the search but haven't found anything in yesterday or today's "news".  I agree Dave and the entire family need lots of prayers right now.  I will add our wonder dog and Golba to the list as well.

Need to get some things done this a.m. - family gathering at 2.  I know you'll report any news.  Appreciate it! 

Unfortunately, from the Netherlands also no news about the search.

Muisje

Thanks Muisje.   

[klaasend]

Klaas do you know the name of the area fierljepper illustrated in blue?

Not off the top of my head but I believe it's the area the gardner witness saw JK2

[klaasend]

AZSunny - it sounds like Fred Golba is there to search pond #2 the same pond that has been searched before.

[texasmom]

3/21/2009 Solo di Pueblo (Body-1) Page 5

http://solodipueblo.com/index.php?option=com_docman&task=cat_view&gid=27&Itemid=2



Papiamentu translation:

not owing to achieve nothing of holloway

sta. cruz -- yesterday owing to arrive aruba one speurhondengeleider cu his cacho. el’a achieve the peticion of dave holloway for busca the restonan deadly of his child muher cu owing to desaparece, natalee holloway. the person here will bay busca in one dam cu owing to happen over cual already anteriormente one witness owing to señala this. ministerio publico not have motibo for acepta y this already owing to being tell anteriormente, cu the curpa of natalee holloway is in the dam menciona here. according dave holloway the not have sosiego first cu can convence cu not can achieve the curpa. pesey mp owing to let the speurder follow busca numa. the sir here have acuerdo cu mp y cu police on the accion of buskeda. police will follow the accion here of close.

[oldiebutgoodie]

Thanks, Klaas.  I guess I think if the tire is just lying there unconcealed, then remains would also do that.  I think the bottom is very solid in that particular pond but suppose shoes could stick.  Am hoping more than a shoe is found because just the shoe only says Joran lost a shoe.

Also on the map, it does make more sense.  I wonder how Joran supposedly would get Natalee's remains to either pond.  He couldn't carry her that far, I wouldn't think.  So I wonder how he would get her there according to this pond theory.

If Paulus was the actual rapist and/or killer and had used his son in the past to "pimp" for him in the procuring of girls and it was Paulus who had beamed in on Natalee as his next target (re: the known videos), then of course Joran would help out poor old Dad when one of Dad's date rape drug victims actually died or had to be murdered.

Perhaps Dad had the vehicle that carried Natalee's body somewhere and Joran helped in the hiding/disposing of it but for some reason, father and son had to go their separate ways after that. So Joran, now unemcumbered by carrying a body around, makes his way back home and that would explain how he could walk such a distance. There was nothing weighing him down, perhaps.

It would also partially explain the initial cover-up which Paulus helped set in motion with his cronies. At a certain point, the cover-up had to continue or else it would have been too embarrassing to Aruban officials.

I don't believe a whole country, even one as tiny as Aruba, would put its national honor and its one main industry at risk for the sake of a young man's sexual escapades. Something much greater was threatened with exposure and it had to be covered up at all costs. Exposing Paulus would have exposed that which must never be exposed.

I keep coming back to the screenshots from the videos. Joran at the same gambling table as Natalee with her MB friends and Joran is ignoring Natalee - he doesn't even know she exists at that point and they are scant feet from each other. And the shot of Paulus trying to put the make on Natalee and her body posture indicates she's slightly leaning away from him or at any rate, she's thinking, "Who the heck is this old geezer and why is he trying to pick up on me?"

If Joran was the bridge or connection between Natalee and Paulus as in, here's this nice good-looking guy who's been chummy with all us MB girls so it's harmless to take a ride back to the motel with him... does anyone know positively whether or not Natalee and/or the MB girls were aware that Paulus was Joran's Daddy? I sure wouldn't get in a car with the son of the old geezer who'd been making eyes at me. Know what I mean?

Whether Natalee died by accidental overdose or was deliberately murdered, that could be achieved by one individual. However, the absolute complete disappearance of a human being from a small island where there aren't that many places to stash a body means there had to be more than one person involved in the disposal of the body.

You have to start connecting the logic dots. What group (duo or more) of people already existed at the time of Natalee's disappearance that would also have been utterly loyal to each other when it came to covering up murder?

And another thought: If it is true that once Natalee's case is officially closed by Aruban officials, all the documentation becomes public and available to the FBI et al, could one of the reasons this case has dragged on and on for years now be because there are interested parties who want to delay the public release of all the documentation?

Would sending Natalee home now mean the criminal case could offically stay "open" forever so as to bar the release of the real truth and would Natalee being home at last be enough to stifle any protest over continuing the cover-up?

[Anna]

I have checked all major news sources I can think of and no updates that I could find.  Hopefully we will get reports throughout the day.  Maybe they are getting a late start in searching today or something like that.

Also, I think there is a difference in speculation and logic.  Must have at least some basis in fact for logic to dictate.

Off to work and lurk. . . . have company coming but will be checking in when I can to see if anything has developed in this new search effort.

[can]

Klaas do you know the name of the area fierljepper illustrated in blue?

Not off the top of my head but I believe it's the area the gardner witness saw JK2

Thanks Klaas.

re fierljeppers illustration/scenario, pond 1 would be closest. 

[oldiebutgoodie]

Also, I think there is a difference in speculation and logic.  Must have at least some basis in fact for logic to dictate.

I agree. That's why, "What group (duo or more) of people already existed at the time of Natalee's disappearance that would also have been utterly loyal to each other when it came to covering up murder?" has absolutely nothing to do with speculation and everything to do with logic. It's a simple question asking for one piece of data. No speculation involved.

[oldiebutgoodie]

By the by, I just came from a wackadoodle website that believes aliens might have abducted Natalee and killed her during their alien experiments and how does this website come by this extraordinary information? Because Natalee told them from beyond the grave (wherever her grave might be).

The entire webpage is peppered with and interrupted with Natalee "speaking" from beyond and this website person is merely writing it down as it comes in.

The page uses photos taken by one who has a history of stalking SMer's and digging up their personal information but since the stalking of SMer's is considered "old news" and the stalkers who do it are a protected class here at SM and discussion of the topic is a bannable offense, I will say no more on that specific topic here.

The one thing mentioned on this page as a "quote from Natalee" that actually makes a kind of sense is Natalee supposedly complaining from beyond the grave that she was dropped down a well and it's cold down there and won't someone please come and get her.

Even in the area of a dead pond, or anywhere for that matter, there could be hidden sinkholes or old wells or old construction holes where a body might be hidden underground without fear of discovery. Something to think about.

[nonesuche]

http://science.howstuffworks.com/quicksand.htm

Good morning all, the link has some video regarding "quicksand" in a river bed. Aruba has so much ground water which is why these areas appear so frequently.

I do hope Natalee is found, even if I don't always believe in the logic or speculations of some, those concerns never impede my desire for her to be found and the family to have closure.

I don't think if she is found that it would ever pressure Aruba to solve the case, it's a given this was more than just Joran and Natalee with a tryst gone awry. Had it been only that, if Aruba didn't have something larger to conceal, the likes of Renfro and Tito and AHATA's force over the internet would have never emerged.

I went to see the new movie Duplicity last night and afterwards all I could think was that the Shango believers should go see it. It's a riddle within a riddle type of feature, very well done, but might open their eyes to how folks get duped!

[oldiebutgoodie]

Does anyone know if electron magnetic resonance imaging to determine the existence of hidden wells and underground hidey-holes has been done in Aruba re: Natalee's disappearance?

[texasmom]

http://www.kwtx.com/nationalnews/headlines/41604692.html

[crazybabyborg]

I have always thought that there are too many people who know what happened for it to NOT come out at some point. Ultimately, I still do believe that.

What I did not figure on is the singleness of purpose from so many factions to hide the truth.

There has to be a reason. I don't think it's impossible that tourism is at the heart of it, and early on solving the case dictated that the cover up would be exposed, which cycles back to tourism concerns. I'm not sure how plausble that speculation is at this point, but IMO, nothing is plausible when you look at what Aruba has done to itself regarding this case.

edit: keyboard has a mind of it's own..........

[wreck]

I have always thought that there are too many people who know what happened fr it to NOT come out at some point. Ultimately, I still do believe that.

What I did not figure on is the singleness of purpose from so many factions to hide the truth.

There has to be a reason. I don't think it's impossible that tourism is at the heart of it, and early on solving the case dictated that the cover up would be exposed, which cycles back to tourism concerns. I'm not sure how plausble that speculation is at this point, but IMO, nothing is plausible when you look at what Aruba has done to itself regarding this case.

There was never an "exit strategy" in place!

[hotping]

Good Afternoon Monkeys....  bastibro, texasmom, Magnolia, socialfriend2, Frijole, CBB, wreck, Ree and 11 Guests

I see We have no news Yet in regards to Fred and Rhino's Search...... 

[wreck]

Good Afternoon Monkeys....  bastibro, texasmom, Magnolia, socialfriend2, Frijole, CBB, wreck, Ree and 11 Guests

I see We have no news Yet in regards to Fred and Rhino's Search...... 

I don't believe the "search" will turn up anything ................. I would pray that an "anonymous package" would mysteriously show up before Golba leaves the island.

[crazybabyborg]

I have always thought that there are too many people who know what happened fr it to NOT come out at some point. Ultimately, I still do believe that.

What I did not figure on is the singleness of purpose from so many factions to hide the truth.

There has to be a reason. I don't think it's impossible that tourism is at the heart of it, and early on solving the case dictated that the cover up would be exposed, which cycles back to tourism concerns. I'm not sure how plausble that speculation is at this point, but IMO, nothing is plausible when you look at what Aruba has done to itself regarding this case.

There was never an "exit strategy" in place!

Exactly Wreck! I honestly think they thought it would melt away eventually. They couldn't imagine they were putting themselves in the deep freezer, and even now they are the only ones who can pull the plug on it. What would be exposed is so much worse at this point though that they just keep running headlong down the path they stepped foot on at the beginning.   

Hey...................  Merry Christmas, but if you'd like to follow the usual calendar, here you go: 

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c100/crazybabyborgs/Easter/Wreck.gif

and Hotping? I made a new one for you, if you'd like it:

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c100/crazybabyborgs/Easter/hotping.gif

[mytime]

Good Afternoon Monkeys....  bastibro, texasmom, Magnolia, socialfriend2, Frijole, CBB, wreck, Ree and 11 Guests

I see We have no news Yet in regards to Fred and Rhino's Search...... 

I don't believe the "search" will turn up anything ................. I would pray that an "anonymous package" would mysteriously show up before Golba leaves the island.

Wreck - are you still celebrating Christmas??   

I pray they finally send Natalee home too!! But do you really think Aruba will do that?? 

[wreck]

Good Afternoon Monkeys....  bastibro, texasmom, Magnolia, socialfriend2, Frijole, CBB, wreck, Ree and 11 Guests

I see We have no news Yet in regards to Fred and Rhino's Search...... 

I don't believe the "search" will turn up anything ................. I would pray that an "anonymous package" would mysteriously show up before Golba leaves the island.

Wreck - are you still celebrating Christmas??   

I pray they finally send Natalee home too!! But do you really think Aruba will do that?? 

I doubt it ..... but we can pray.


(Thanks, CBB!)

[mytime]

I wonder how Dave felt when found out his plans to send a search dog was all over the news.........just thinking out loud!!