Natalee Case Discussion #810 3/21/09 - 3/24/09

[crazybabyborg]

Good Afternoon Monkeys....  bastibro, texasmom, Magnolia, socialfriend2, Frijole, CBB, wreck, Ree and 11 Guests

I see We have no news Yet in regards to Fred and Rhino's Search...... 

I don't believe the "search" will turn up anything ................. I would pray that an "anonymous package" would mysteriously show up before Golba leaves the island.

Wreck - are you still celebrating Christmas??   

I pray they finally send Natalee home too!! But do you really think Aruba will do that?? 

There is no doubt in my mind that the authorities, current or past, know what happned to Natalee and her remains. Allowing the remains to be returned to her family is the first step to closing the chapter for her family and for Aruba. But the distance to travel is a long journey at this point before Aruba restores itself to the perception that existed before this case. So they just keep walking in the wrong direction.

[wreck]

I wonder how Dave felt when found out his plans to send a search dog was all over the news.........just thinking out loud!!

If there WAS a secret deal made to actually bring Natalee home -- it was probably "quashed".  Fred "blabbed" to a flight attendant.

[nonesuche]

I have always thought that there are too many people who know what happened fr it to NOT come out at some point. Ultimately, I still do believe that.

What I did not figure on is the singleness of purpose from so many factions to hide the truth.

There has to be a reason. I don't think it's impossible that tourism is at the heart of it, and early on solving the case dictated that the cover up would be exposed, which cycles back to tourism concerns. I'm not sure how plausble that speculation is at this point, but IMO, nothing is plausible when you look at what Aruba has done to itself regarding this case.

There was never an "exit strategy" in place!

True wreck but CBB, I also believe that the dirty hands extend so far up the food chain, that until that network topples or is exposed - it's likely those lower down the chain don't dare talk.

jmho

[mytime]

Does anyone know the statistics of how badly their tourism business has been effected?? 

[crazybabyborg]

I have always thought that there are too many people who know what happened fr it to NOT come out at some point. Ultimately, I still do believe that.

What I did not figure on is the singleness of purpose from so many factions to hide the truth.

There has to be a reason. I don't think it's impossible that tourism is at the heart of it, and early on solving the case dictated that the cover up would be exposed, which cycles back to tourism concerns. I'm not sure how plausble that speculation is at this point, but IMO, nothing is plausible when you look at what Aruba has done to itself regarding this case.

There was never an "exit strategy" in place!

True wreck but CBB, I also believe that the dirty hands extend so far up the food chain, that until that network topples or is exposed - it's likely those lower down the chain don't dare talk.

jmho

Oh, I agree, nonesuchey! Somebody's managed to apply steady and effective pressure throughout.

[hotping]

Good Afternoon Monkeys....  bastibro, texasmom, Magnolia, socialfriend2, Frijole, CBB, wreck, Ree and 11 Guests

I see We have no news Yet in regards to Fred and Rhino's Search...... 

I don't believe the "search" will turn up anything ................. I would pray that an "anonymous package" would mysteriously show up before Golba leaves the island.

I  just keep Praying that Aruba will finally do the right thing......I don't care how They do it as long as Dave and Beth get Natalee back! 

[crazybabyborg]

Good Afternoon Monkeys....  bastibro, texasmom, Magnolia, socialfriend2, Frijole, CBB, wreck, Ree and 11 Guests

I see We have no news Yet in regards to Fred and Rhino's Search...... 

I don't believe the "search" will turn up anything ................. I would pray that an "anonymous package" would mysteriously show up before Golba leaves the island.

I  just keep Praying that Aruba will finally do the right thing......I don't care how They do it as long as Dave and Beth get Natalee back! 

I'm with you, hotping! It will take Aruba seeing it is to their advantage, IMO. I don't think they'll ever respond to an internal motivation to do what is right. I don't think they have that within them.

[hotping]

Good Afternoon Monkeys....  bastibro, texasmom, Magnolia, socialfriend2, Frijole, CBB, wreck, Ree and 11 Guests

I see We have no news Yet in regards to Fred and Rhino's Search...... 

I don't believe the "search" will turn up anything ................. I would pray that an "anonymous package" would mysteriously show up before Golba leaves the island.

I  just keep Praying that Aruba will finally do the right thing......I don't care how They do it as long as Dave and Beth get Natalee back! 

I'm with you, hotping! It will take Aruba seeing it is to their advantage, IMO. I don't think they'll ever respond to an internal motivation to do what is right. I don't think they have that within them.

I Agree CBB...Maybe one day soon they will realize it might help Their Precious Tourism to do the right thing......

[hotping]

BBL Monkeys.....Have a Great Afternoon Everyone! 

[klaasend]

There is a thread RU and right now they are arguing whether any of the MG kids said NH was back at the hotel.  This link was provided by LoRain, but look where she got it?

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,159764,00.html





Any question now why I don't trust LoRain?  Of course neither Alana or Kissle say NH came back to the hotel but REALITY gave that link to LoRain as proof.

[Tamikosmom]

Prosecutors: Natalee Holloway's father pays for search dog, handler to look for body in Aruba
By DANICA COTO Associated Press Writer
4:26 PM CDT, March 20, 2009

SAN JUAN, Puerto Rico (AP) — Natalee Holloway's father flew a search dog and handler to Aruba to search for the missing teen's body on Friday, although prosecutors said they have no new leads in the case.

Ann Angela, a spokeswoman for the Aruba Prosecutors' Office, said the dog is searching a small reservoir in northwestern Aruba that witnesses have previously identified as a location where Holloway's remains might be found.

Holloway, from Mountain Brook, Ala., disappeared in May 2005 in the Aruban capital Oranjestad. She was 18 at the time.

Angela said neither police nor prosecutors have any new information in the case, but they gave Dave Holloway permission to search.

Dave Holloway did not immediately return a message seeking comment. His attorney, Vinda de Sousa, told The Associated Press he insisted on another search of the reservoir after a witness who identified it as a possible location passed a lie detector test in the U.S.

De Sousa said she does not know how long the dog and its handler will remain on the island, nor how much Holloway is paying for the search. She added that the search had been planned for some time.

Holloway's mother, Beth Holloway Twitty, said she was not aware of the development and declined further comment.

Natalee Holloway was last seen leaving a bar with Dutch man Joran van der Sloot on the final night of a high school graduation trip.

No trace of her has ever been found despite extensive searches involving hundreds of volunteers, Aruban soldiers, FBI agents and even Dutch F-16 jets.

Dutch prosecutors have said authorities still lack proof they need to convict Van der Sloot, who has been arrested twice and released for lack of evidence.

http://www.fox2now.com/news/nationworld/sns-ap-cb-aruba-missing-teen,0,1729721.story

[Tamikosmom]

THE POND


APRIL, 2008

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman - 04/07/08: There are 18 targets. Two are definitely tires. The rest, who knows. It's likely tin cans, mud clumps, and debris. There is one small box-like target but it's only 2ft across and doesn't have much relief, unless it's completely sunk into the mud (likely). I can find something about the size of a hockey puck with that system in good conditions. The water was very shallow when this survey was done. Remember, in February 2006 the pond was almost dry.


SEPTEMBER, 2008

Natalee Holloway Investigation: Exclusive … Tim Miller of Texas EquuSearch in Aruba to meet With ALE/Prosecutor … New Witness That Puts Joran & Paulus Van der Sloot Near Ponds on 5/30/05

Diario - Jossy Mansur

In the meantime, the Americans, with police permission, made a sonar
test of the Dam of Monserat in the beginning of this year, when the
level of the water was low. DIARIO has found out that this test discovered 15 objects of interest and that they could define only 3 of them.

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2008/09/10/natalee-holloway-investigation-exclusive-tim-miller-of-texas-equusearch-in-aruba-to-meet-with-aleprosecutor-new-witness-that-puts-joran-paulus-van-der-sloot-near-ponds-on-53005/#more-6039


JANUARY, 2009

January 6, 2009
Press Anouncement
Ladies and gentlemen!

Hans Mos:

In the month of March 2008 a witness who was urged by Dave Holloway to step forward confronted the Prosecutor’s Office. The man gave a statement on March 16th 2008 accompanied by his lawyer. This witness statement is already widely known: the witness claims he saw Joran van der Sloot in the middle of the night of May 30th walking in front of his house, soaked up to his chest, walking on one shoe and heavily breathing. He was walking into the direction of the hotels, coming from the direction of the Church at Noord. What the witness was actually aiming for was the Police to conduct an intensive search in the dam of Monserrat. Nevertheless the witness could not give us any reason why the Police should conduct a search in the dam. It was the conclusion of the witness that Joran had come from the dam since he came walking from that direction.

There was no indication whatsoever that Joran had been at the dam. For that reason the Police were not ordered to conduct that search. Later, people from the Persistence asked if they were allowed to conduct a search. They were told that they could go ahead if the wanted to. No results were reported. Besides that, the Monserrat dam, which had completely fallen dry by that time, was not long before that request completely searched by dozens of people, for a completely different reason. No results were reported.

http://gretawire.foxnews.com/2009/01/06/aruba-prosecutor-5-page-letter-dont-miss-the-part-where-he-trashes-fox-and-menever-dull/

[Tamikosmom]

Posted by GLENDA at RU:

This afternoon at Montserat (03/21/09)

"Pond in February 2008"


"Pond in May 2008"

BUMPED

[hotping]

Tracker dog to search for Holloway remains
Published: Saturday 21 March 2009 08:47 UTC
Last updated: Saturday 21 March 2009 15:13 UTC
A new search for the remains of missing US teenager Natalee Holloway will get under way in Aruba this weekend. Dave Holloway, father of the missing girl, has sent a specially trained tracker dog to the island. Mr Holloway is concentrating the search at a flooded dam.

The Aruban authorities believe the search is a waste of time but have agreed to co-operate. The public prosecutor's office says it will take a few more months to conclude the enquiry into Natalee Holloway's disappearance.
Natalee Holloway disappeared on 30 May 2005, on the final night of her high school graduation trip to the Caribbean island. In 2008, Dutch student Joran van der Sloot was secretly filmed confessing that he saw her die on the beach and had a friend dispose of her body. He later told police that his story was a lie.

Aruba is a former colony of, and now an autonomous region within, the Kingdom of the Netherlands. Together with Bonaire and Curaçao, it forms part of the Lesser Antilles island chain. It is a popular tourist destination for visitors from the United States.


http://www.radionetherlands.nl/news/zijlijn/6224683/Tracker-dog-to-search-for-Holloway-remains

[Helen Back]

 

Never was a question for me, Klaas. 

Thanks for bringing that over.  The Fox news interview only substantiates that Natalee's friends and classmates held her in high esteem, were truly concerned for her, and never saw her after C&C's.

My heart aches for Beth and Dave and all of Natalee's loved ones, and it amazes me that so many want to turn the tragedy of the loss of Natalee into their personal battlegrounds. 

You are either in support of Natalee and her family, or you're not.  It isn't complicated.

I continue to stand with the girl, and her loved ones, until she comes home.

Anyone who doesn't, I ignore.

 

Helen Back

[hotping]

There is a thread RU and right now they are arguing whether any of the MG kids said NH was back at the hotel.  This link was provided by LoRain, but look where she got it?

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,159764,00.html





Any question now why I don't trust LoRain?  Of course neither Alana or Kissle say NH came back to the hotel but REALITY gave that link to LoRain as proof.

No Questions Here Klaas I understand perfectly! 

[Artcolley]

Please excuse me if this link was provided in the past! I found it rather an interesting read about the geological formations and caves on Aruba.

http://tinyurl.com/dfhvdd

I didn't realize the extent and the number of caves on that Island and how easily they are accessed and what perfect hiding places they would afford one trying to hide a body quickly.

[Tamikosmom]

Please excuse me if this link was provided in the past! I found it rather an interesting read about the geological formations and caves on Aruba.

http://tinyurl.com/dfhvdd

I didn't realize the extent and the number of caves on that Island and how easily they are accessed and what perfect hiding places they would afford one trying to hide a body quickly.

Thanks Art.

Fred Golba search those caves when he was in Aruba in 2006.
Edit to correct year, per Janet.
Janet

+++++

FRED GOLBA

'Rita Cosby Live & Direct' for March 15
updated 9:08 a.m. PT, Thurs., March. 16, 2006

The Caves

COSBY:  And we have some exclusive details to tell you about in the Natalee Holloway case tonight.  LIVE & DIRECT has learned that a new search is now under way on the island of Aruba for the missing Alabama teen.  Just today, a team headed into an Aruban cave looking for clues.  And tomorrow they‘re headed back to the sand dunes.

On the phone with us right now tonight from Aruba is Fred Golba.  He‘s with the search group, called Child Watch Canine.

You know, Fred, why the caves?  Everyone‘s going—it sounds like this is the first time we‘ve heard of caves being searched.  Why there? 

FRED GOLBA, CHILD WATCH CANINE:  Well, these caves are out in the Baby Beach area on the other side of San Nicolas.  And what I do each morning is I go to the police department, and I check in with them, and they give me defined areas to go and search. 

And this was an area that they suggested that I go into and search to rule it out.  And what we did was we went out there.  And it looks like, you know, a desert field on the top, with cactus and some grass out there, which is very easily accessed from the main road.  You could drive a regular motor vehicle out to the area.

And as you walk out there, there‘s these air shafts that go down into these gold mines and phosphorus mines.  And some of these holes go down 50 feet, 100 feet, and you cannot see the bottom down in there, in some of them.

So what I did was I took your producer with me, and we did a repel down into the caves.  And we walked around, you know, down below ground in these caves, checking below these air shafts, to see if somebody had discarded the person that we‘re looking for down there. 

COSBY:  Was there anything—as we‘re looking at some pictures, by the way, Fred, of you and your dog right now—anything that you saw of interest?  And were Aruban investigators with you during this search? 

GOLBA:  No, they knew that I knew the area.  So, you know, they let me go out there.  When they have an area that I‘m not aware of, they will escort me out there and, you know, show me defined areas, such as my last trip in December, I was out in the Indian burial grounds, which isn‘t far from Deepak and Satish‘s house.

And we went out there, and there was a real big well that was, you know, a very old well that was out there.  And we weren‘t able to search it, you know, in any way, shape, or form, and not with a dog, because the sides of the wells were—you know, it‘s not accessible by a dog. 

So what we did was we went there today with the infrared camera, and we put a camera head down to the bottom of the well and searched the bottom of the well and came up negative.  So we have ruled out the Indian burial grounds, and we ruled out the air shafts and the caves out by Baby Beach, which is almost right across the street from the prison.

The Sand Dunes  

COSBY:  Now, I know you‘re also going to be looking at the sand dunes.  And we have some old pictures, sort of, of the sand dunes.  But why do you think that you would have success?  It seems like a lot of people have combed that area before.  What makes you different?  And what do you expect out of it?

GOLBA:  Well, what‘s different now is we went out there and we searched these areas last time in a grid-elimination process, you know, just picking an area that looked good and accessible.  And we went out, and we aerated some large areas, which was very tedious work. 

It‘s very hard to aerate, but aeration is a very good technique.  You know, if you‘re in the right area, you‘re going to find the person.  It‘s just very hard, laborious work to do.

COSBY:  How long—real quick.  Real quick, Fred, because we just have a second.  How long do you think it‘s going to take? 

GOLBA:  I don‘t know.  There‘s an area about the size of two football feels, and it‘s on the opposite side of the dune that we did last time when we were here in August.  And we‘re going to do these defined areas. 

We have ground-penetrating radar coming in, which is part of Child Watch as a resource.  And we‘re going to do the aerating, dog, metal, because Natalee was believed to have some jewelry on her, so we‘re going to use three or four different techniques in each grid that we do.  And if she‘s out there, we‘ll find her. 

COSBY:  All right, Fred, well, we wish you a lot of luck.  And thank you so much for being with us. 

So how and why did the Aruban government decide to hire their own team to complete a new search of the island?  How did this time get involved?  LIVE & DIRECT tonight is Steven Cohen, special adviser to the Aruban government.

You know, Steve, we‘ve had Tim Miller from EquuSearch, all these different guys on there.  They were all sort of turned down by Dompig and it seemed like the Aruban government, of course, the chief of police there.  Why this team? 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11857796/

[Tamikosmom]

EDIT!!

Fred Golba search those caves when he was in Aruba in 2006.

Fixed it in your post. 

[Artcolley]

Please excuse me if this link was provided in the past! I found it rather an interesting read about the geological formations and caves on Aruba.

http://tinyurl.com/dfhvdd

I didn't realize the extent and the number of caves on that Island and how easily they are accessed and what perfect hiding places they would afford one trying to hide a body quickly.

Thanks Art.

Fred Golba search those caves when he was in Aruba in 2006.
Edit to correct year, per Janet.

Janet

+++++

FRED GOLBA

'Rita Cosby Live & Direct' for March 15
updated 9:08 a.m. PT, Thurs., March. 16, 2006

The Caves

COSBY:  And we have some exclusive details to tell you about in the Natalee Holloway case tonight.  LIVE & DIRECT has learned that a new search is now under way on the island of Aruba for the missing Alabama teen.  Just today, a team headed into an Aruban cave looking for clues.  And tomorrow they‘re headed back to the sand dunes.

On the phone with us right now tonight from Aruba is Fred Golba.  He‘s with the search group, called Child Watch Canine.

You know, Fred, why the caves?  Everyone‘s going—it sounds like this is the first time we‘ve heard of caves being searched.  Why there? 

FRED GOLBA, CHILD WATCH CANINE:  Well, these caves are out in the Baby Beach area on the other side of San Nicolas.  And what I do each morning is I go to the police department, and I check in with them, and they give me defined areas to go and search. 

And this was an area that they suggested that I go into and search to rule it out.  And what we did was we went out there.  And it looks like, you know, a desert field on the top, with cactus and some grass out there, which is very easily accessed from the main road.  You could drive a regular motor vehicle out to the area.

And as you walk out there, there‘s these air shafts that go down into these gold mines and phosphorus mines.  And some of these holes go down 50 feet, 100 feet, and you cannot see the bottom down in there, in some of them.

So what I did was I took your producer with me, and we did a repel down into the caves.  And we walked around, you know, down below ground in these caves, checking below these air shafts, to see if somebody had discarded the person that we‘re looking for down there. 

COSBY:  Was there anything—as we‘re looking at some pictures, by the way, Fred, of you and your dog right now—anything that you saw of interest?  And were Aruban investigators with you during this search? 

GOLBA:  No, they knew that I knew the area.  So, you know, they let me go out there.  When they have an area that I‘m not aware of, they will escort me out there and, you know, show me defined areas, such as my last trip in December, I was out in the Indian burial grounds, which isn‘t far from Deepak and Satish‘s house.

And we went out there, and there was a real big well that was, you know, a very old well that was out there.  And we weren‘t able to search it, you know, in any way, shape, or form, and not with a dog, because the sides of the wells were—you know, it‘s not accessible by a dog. 

So what we did was we went there today with the infrared camera, and we put a camera head down to the bottom of the well and searched the bottom of the well and came up negative.  So we have ruled out the Indian burial grounds, and we ruled out the air shafts and the caves out by Baby Beach, which is almost right across the street from the prison.

The Sand Dunes  

COSBY:  Now, I know you‘re also going to be looking at the sand dunes.  And we have some old pictures, sort of, of the sand dunes.  But why do you think that you would have success?  It seems like a lot of people have combed that area before.  What makes you different?  And what do you expect out of it?

GOLBA:  Well, what‘s different now is we went out there and we searched these areas last time in a grid-elimination process, you know, just picking an area that looked good and accessible.  And we went out, and we aerated some large areas, which was very tedious work. 

It‘s very hard to aerate, but aeration is a very good technique.  You know, if you‘re in the right area, you‘re going to find the person.  It‘s just very hard, laborious work to do.

COSBY:  How long—real quick.  Real quick, Fred, because we just have a second.  How long do you think it‘s going to take? 

GOLBA:  I don‘t know.  There‘s an area about the size of two football feels, and it‘s on the opposite side of the dune that we did last time when we were here in August.  And we‘re going to do these defined areas. 

We have ground-penetrating radar coming in, which is part of Child Watch as a resource.  And we‘re going to do the aerating, dog, metal, because Natalee was believed to have some jewelry on her, so we‘re going to use three or four different techniques in each grid that we do.  And if she‘s out there, we‘ll find her. 

COSBY:  All right, Fred, well, we wish you a lot of luck.  And thank you so much for being with us. 

So how and why did the Aruban government decide to hire their own team to complete a new search of the island?  How did this time get involved?  LIVE & DIRECT tonight is Steven Cohen, special adviser to the Aruban government.

You know, Steve, we‘ve had Tim Miller from EquuSearch, all these different guys on there.  They were all sort of turned down by Dompig and it seemed like the Aruban government, of course, the chief of police there.  Why this team? 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11857796/

OH good, Janet, Thank You. I was sort of "out of commission" for over a year and missed a lot that had happened during that period of time. I am glad he searched them all.