Natalee Case Discussion #810 3/21/09 - 3/24/09

[Magnolia]

Well, I am not sure we can trust the Snorkel Spaniel.

Glenda at RU says that he stayed with her after he chewed up the hotel room
the last time he was there.  Her kids loved him.

[Tamikosmom]

EDIT!!

Fred Golba search those caves when he was in Aruba in 2006.

Fixed it in your post. 

Thank you MuffyBee.

I promise never never to bother Klaas or the Mods again in regards to editing or deleting my posts.

 

Janet

[texasmom]

Well, I am not sure we can trust the Snorkel Spaniel.

Glenda at RU says that he stayed with her after he chewed up the hotel room
the last time he was there.  Her kids loved him.

 

 

[Anna]

There is a thread RU and right now they are arguing whether any of the MG kids said NH was back at the hotel.  This link was provided by LoRain, but look where she got it?

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,159764,00.html





Any question now why I don't trust LoRain?  Of course neither Alana or Kissle say NH came back to the hotel but REALITY gave that link to LoRain as proof.

IMO, it is just as bad to lie about these MB kids as it is Natalee because lying about the children of other people is just plain wrong.  And posting a fake link is a double lie. 

But that person has always lied about the MB kids and tried to implicate them in some way or other and reeks of jealousy.  Also is hand puppet of Reality, one of the nastiest posters ever about Natalee. 

And it is so interesting to see who is A-OK with this kind of thing these days.  Makes one wonder what they were thinking the whole time.

[Tamikosmom]

FRED GOLBA - THE DUNES

'Rita Cosby Live & Direct' for March 29
updated 8:56 a.m. PT, Thurs., March. 30, 2006

COSBY:  ... And joining me now is someone who just returned from Aruba after searching for Natalee, Fred Golba.  He's a searcher for Childwatch Canine.  Fred, this area that they're searching, you know it well.  How complex? 

And do you think they'll find anything?

FRED GOLBA, CHILDWATCH CANINE SEARCH:  Well, there is quite a bit of an area out there in that sand dune.  That's the sand dune that I had searched with Aruba search and rescue back the second week in August.  And that dune has changed considerably from August until this trip here that I just made.  It is totally changed out there, compared to what we had done.  The area that we had searched has actually been blown away.

And what I think they're doing is the other side of the dune, a little farther north and east from where we originally searched.  And there is quite a bit of area out there, but from what I understand is they have a defined area to search.  And you know, they got the ground-penetrating radar with two dogs and the aerating technique, which if they get into the right area, I'm sure that the Dutch will find her, if she is out there.

COSBY:  Do you believe she's out there?  What's the sense you're getting, Fred?  Because you were on the ground there just recently.  Do you think they believe these tips, or are they grasping for straws?

GOLBA:  You know, what story to believe, I don't know.  But I do think and I do believe that they think that she is out there, due to this tip.  You know, they went out there frantically searching themselves with probes, you know, trying the technique, which you need to do it a few times to get good at it.  And that's why they wanted the Dutch to come back in and they allowed me to come back in, because the aerating technique is the same that the Dutch is using now.  And you can feel the areas under the sand with the probes.  And honestly, to me, the probing technique and the dogs are more thorough than any machinery.  Ground-penetrating radar is good.

COSBY:  You know, real quick, Fred, you talked about the dogs.  You also talked about the wind.  I was down there, and it was so windy.  Real quickly, I mean, do you think that the dogs are still going to be able to pick up a scent after all this time, given the climate, too?

GOLBA:  Well, the dog isn't the miracle tool out there, it's the combination between the aerating, the dogs and the ground-penetrating radar.  That's where the radar comes in, is, you know, if the radar picks something up, then you can probe it, put holes in it, and then, hopefully, you can puncture it and the dogs will hit on it.  If the dogs hit on it, then you got a very highly likely area and—to, you know, dig up, and you know, confirm what is under there.  If the dogs hit on it, it's probably a for sure hit.

COSBY:  Well, Fred, thank you very much.  We appreciate all the hard work you're doing there.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12079741/

[Anna]

Well, I am not sure we can trust the Snorkel Spaniel.

Glenda at RU says that he stayed with her after he chewed up the hotel room
the last time he was there.  Her kids loved him.

Would that be the same Glenda who posted email supposedly received threatening Julia but was in fact addressed to ATA long ago?

No, I did not know she was so involved with Goldba and his dog but did have the feeling there was something I could not recall other than him being the only searcher approved by ALE for some very strange reason.

And these dogs are SUPPOSED to be trained and should never be behaving in that manner of wrecking a hotel room.  I wonder exactly what Rhino's credentials are.  Anyone know if they are online and certified, not just Goldba or Julia's word for it, please.

[muisje]

http://www.kovandijkvertelt.nl/?p=2529  (Dutch)

Dave Holloway, Natalee's father, has a private tracker with sniffer dogs sent to Aruba. Dave believes that there is no good to the body of his daughter is found. I can well imagine his dissatisfaction because who still believed in the fairy tales of Joran van der Sloot? Apart from its dubious and repeatedly challenged confessions, the body must be as aangespoeld really Natalee was dumped into the sea. Ashore is not the case, so there is still a small chance that Natalee somewhere buried on the island.

It seems to me an almost impossible task for an island such as Aruba millimeter for millimeter to combs. Holloway is also not planned. According to the Telegraaf, the investigators focus on a flooded dam on the island which previously was spoken by a witness. The Public Ministry is not that the body of Natalee Holloway in the dam area.

Coincidence that I calculated last Thursday with Telegraph journalist Bert Cottage Holloway spoke about the issue and the many (useless) tips psychic. Holloway was also indirectly raised. Yet it would not surprise me if the psychic that Natalee is still alive to see the same gain. In any case I feel that Natalee is not on the beach come to life or life is. But that feeling is not such that I exclude other options. If I Paul van der Sloot, the father of Joran see I always think: this man knows more.

But let's assume that Natalee is indeed deceased and that person is responsible for her death. How do you remove than a corpse? A detective with whom I came into contact through my involvement with the case of missing toddler Maddie MacCann reported the possibilities. The sand on the coast did not stop so much meaning, sooner or later a corpse is above or you have very deep graves. Dumping at sea is completely foolish, because the probability of a corpse aanspoelt is great. In Portugal the situation was slightly different because of the currents and the presence of griffon vulture. Remains buried on the mainland, somewhere in the dunes or a wooded area. The latter is recommended because of how horrible it may sound, nature removes a corpse quickly. The details I will save my readers.

However, there is a much simpler and more effective method for you to dispose of a corpse, which is dump, landfill or hand in the incinerator. Let there be now in the immediate vicinity of the house of Paul van der Sloot a landfill are .... In our country the waste is carefully sorted, but in other countries is not the case. Everything is the great hope and many landfills are not, like us, had been closed. Piece of cake for you so you "ballast" to discard. If the body with some knowledge of affairs has been eliminated will never be found.

In my heart I hope of course that the sniffer dogs succeed. Not least because there is no chip crystal remains of Peter R. de Vries. Obviously my thoughts go out to the father of Natalee. I know only too well what this man has in recent years to make. We saw mainly ex-wife Beth in the picture. That was the word and found plenty of publicity. At its attitude, it is necessary to brands. Now Beth golddigster other things to her mind is the turn for Dave. He seems a nice man who deserves all the support. Let us follow the developments.

[texasmom]

There is a thread RU and right now they are arguing whether any of the MG kids said NH was back at the hotel.  This link was provided by LoRain, but look where she got it?

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,159764,00.html





Any question now why I don't trust LoRain?  Of course neither Alana or Kissle say NH came back to the hotel but REALITY gave that link to LoRain as proof.

Not surprised at all Klaas!  No question in my mind at all why you don't trust her, only why others at pro Natalee sites DO trust her.  Her activities speak for her agenda loud and clear.

This is just another fine example of the services LoRain provides for Reality and her other "friends" at BNH.  It's no wonder she was welcomed back even after being banned there for creating drama about Rene Gielen's participation on their forum.

 

[Anna]

Thank you, Muisje,

I wonder if that author even knows Beth is teaching every day to earn a living so I do not approve of the "golddigster" remark at all.  The only "goldigsters" I see are the Arubans who refused to arrest the obvious suspects and tried to cover this up to protect their precious tourism.  Would love to see some accurate figures on tourism in Aruba currently.

But you are only the messenger and I certainly am not faulting you for anything and do appreciate your sharing with us what is being said elsewhere about all of this for we do need to know and also have other perspectives as long as they are valid.

[Artcolley]

Well, I am not sure we can trust the Snorkel Spaniel.

Glenda at RU says that he stayed with her after he chewed up the hotel room
the last time he was there.  Her kids loved him.

 

[Anna]

Dothan News--nothing new

http://www.wtvynews4.com/home/headlines/41634072.html


Boston~Nothing new either

Excerpt:

Fred Golba and his dog, Rhino, were hired by Natalee's dad, Dave Holloway, and have been to Aruba eight times already to look for her.

They're conducting the latest search this weekend, after a tip from a witness who said he saw Joran van der Sloot coming out of a pond with only one shoe on. Van der Sloot is believed to be one of the last people to see Holloway.

"What I want to do is stick my arms in from elbows to shoulders and feel for bones and his sneakers," Golba said.

Golba has found hundreds of missing people in his career and says he won't give up hope.

He says the witness passed an FBI polygraph and he has no reason to doubt the new information.

"I have more confidence in this pond then anything I have done in eight trips to this island," he said.

Holloway was last seen in May of 2005.

http://www.myfoxboston.com/dpp/news/local/032109_Local_man_dog_search_for_Holloway

 

[muisje]

Thank you, Muisje,

I wonder if that author even knows Beth is teaching every day to earn a living so I do not approve of the "golddigster" remark at all.  The only "goldigsters" I see are the Arubans who refused to arrest the obvious suspects and tried to cover this up to protect their precious tourism.  Would love to see some accurate figures on tourism in Aruba currently.

But you are only the messenger and I certainly am not faulting you for anything and do appreciate your sharing with us what is being said elsewhere about all of this for we do need to know and also have other perspectives as long as they are valid.

Thank you Anna. Mr. Van Dijk follows the case from the beginning and has already been written many colums on his website. Unfortunately for all monkeys, the website is in Dutch.
I don't know whether everything he writes is based on truth.

Muisje

[Anna]

Well, I am not sure we can trust the Snorkel Spaniel.

Glenda at RU says that he stayed with her after he chewed up the hotel room
the last time he was there.  Her kids loved him.

 

Remember when Julia accused Jug of physically assaulting her?  And all the horrific things she said about him as well as Beth?  It's so surprising to see some so unquestioningly supporting her and her friends Fred and Rhino.

I have read Robin Holloway saying Julia wants Natalee found almost as much as they do but am still surprised when others uphold her while claiming to be seeking justice for Natalee.  Personally, I just don't believe it can be found in such sources as Julia Renfrom and Reality and Mark Purcell. 

But I would take it anywhere we could get it.  Just don't look to those particular sources with the trust some seem to have for them including supporters of this pond theory and those conducting the new search.  I wonder if Rhino will again stay with Julia and her kids who love him so.

[2NJSons_Mom]

Please excuse me if this link was provided in the past! I found it rather an interesting read about the geological formations and caves on Aruba.

http://tinyurl.com/dfhvdd

I didn't realize the extent and the number of caves on that Island and how easily they are accessed and what perfect hiding places they would afford one trying to hide a body quickly.

Hotping & Lifesong were looking for a contract that Kaplan Industry acquired from Mermis.  This paragraph from your link made me think of it again.  The name is somewhat common, but it grabbed my attention:

Mr. and Mrs. Kaplan lived on the north edge of the expanse of coral in which the cave (we called it “The Colony Cave” at the time, or just “The Cave”) was located. Harvey Kaplan, a boy perhaps two years older than I was, was a very active and fearless kid. Like all of us, he wandered over the coral, throwing rocks at lizards living in fissures in the coral (which tended to fill in with light soil and grow little bushes that could nourish insects or lizards.) He found a crack in the coral just south of his home, bigger than average, and slithered into it on his stomach. Much to his delight, the crack opened up a little as he crawled east, and eventually led into the Colony Cave itself. The next day at school, he rushed to tell other kids about his discovery, which we very soon began to call “Kaplan’s Cave”! The next Saturday, along with the Burbage boys and perhaps Ronald Turner and others, I followed Harvey (also known as “Tootie”) Kaplan into his private tunnel. It gave me the creeps to have to slither on my stomach through a narrow passage while at the same time curving to the right, but “Tootie” was leading the way and showed no fear at all. As the tunnel became larger, the adventure became more exciting, and my recollection is that we emerged into the chamber just to the southwest of the main entrance to Colony Cave, where water dripped from many spots in the ceiling and lay in shallow puddles on the floor. Stepping out of the narrow tunnel into the large, familiar room was like walking into a mansion.

[Tamikosmom]

There is a thread RU and right now they are arguing whether any of the MG kids said NH was back at the hotel.  This link was provided by LoRain, but look where she got it?

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,159764,00.html





Any question now why I don't trust LoRain?  Of course neither Alana or Kissle say NH came back to the hotel but REALITY gave that link to LoRain as proof.

IMO, it is just as bad to lie about these MB kids as it is Natalee because lying about the children of other people is just plain wrong.  And posting a fake link is a double lie. 

But that person has always lied about the MB kids and tried to implicate them in some way or other and reeks of jealousy.  Also is hand puppet of Reality, one of the nastiest posters ever about Natalee.  

And it is so interesting to see who is A-OK with this kind of thing these days.  Makes one wonder what they were thinking the whole time.

Anna ... you are right.  Yet ... Robin Holloway upholds Reality as well as MIP6 (Mark Purcell) and Ramm (Peter van der Vliet ).  Prior to being connected with Dave and Robin ... these three showed Natalee Holloway and her family as well as the MB students no mercy.  An obvious Aruban agenda was where it was at.

Janet

++++++

ROBIN HOLLOWAY

Robin Holloway
BFN

August 21, 2006, 03:07:49 PM »

I have made a lot of good friends here at BFN and other sites. I appreciate the efforts everyone has gone to in trying to help us out. Thank you to everyone. I have had the pleasure of talking and communicating with several on this board and would like to thank them and everyone, including especially Debbie, and thanks to Rammstein, Reality, MIP6 and gagirl for their help also. I know everyone won't agree on everything, but we need to keep focus on the real issue, Natalee.


REALITY

Reality
BFN

But the vast majority of the Refugees are just nice people wanting the TRUTH of what happened to Natalee.

http://blogsfornatalee.com/forums/index.php?topic=4454.30


Reality
BFN

Interesting post, but how is the conclusion arrived at that Joran was wild ?
 
From what I have read, seen and heard, this young fellow seems pretty normal, nothing wilder than the MB Kids that were on Aruba.

In fact, a little pussy-cat when compared to kids that age that I have seen and don't even begin to tell me that does not apply to kids from the US.
One has to take much of the slandering of this kid with a pinch of salt, these are enuendos put forth by the Right Wing US Media, much the same as was applied to the alledged victim of Duke.

http://blogsfornatalee.com/forums/index.php?topic=4006.msg121427


Reality
BFN

Those MB Brats, I wonder if they have started talking yet, possibly in the last year, whilst in the real world and away from the bosoms of their Mama's ?

http://blogsfornatalee.com/forums/index.php?topic=4226.msg148163#msg148163


Reality
BFN

From what I have been reading over the past 15 months, there is absolutely no evidence of foul play.

http://blogsfornatalee.com/forums/index.php?topic=4670.msg158480#msg158480
 

Reality
BFN

Yes it is very strange that a Senator had to basically, URGE them to co-operate. That doesn't make any sense, don't you think ?
 
http://blogsfornatalee.com/forums/index.php?topic=4454.30


More:

MIP6 and REALITY - are they part of the disinformation team?
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1896.0

[BUCKSHOT]

When Aruba allows searches, it knows:
**the area holds no clues.
**the area has been professionally cleaned/rid of evidence.

It has been rare (if at all) that ALE has permitted a third party to search.

For peace of mind (if nothing else), Dave can say it has been searched, though.

[Mary Ann]

The only way a search can be done is without Aruban LE involved. You cannot trust anyone in Aruba, it is so corrupt.

[BUCKSHOT]

Has anyone ever heard of opposite day?

It always seems to be opposite day in Aruba with this investigation.

When honest investigators (not police), journalists, family members are on the wrong track, Aruba lets them search away, often assisting hand in hand.

Conversely, when honest investigators (not police), journalists, family members are on the right track, Aruba does everything in its power to block searches, require permits, start fires (literally), spread mis-information, etc...

[Anna]

Janet,  I have come under direct attack many times from those individuals especially MIP6.  I don't post anything that nobody else posts yet often seem to draw fire for unknown reasons.  I think the fact I started that Murder & Crime Thread is part of the reason.  Another is that they also hate Granny Toad whom I do tend to see eye to eye on and like.

But I am ALL TOO Familiar with their attacks!  And was very hurt to learn that members of Natalee's family support people who attack others who have been behind justice for Natalee from when she was first rumored to be missing.  I have never understood that either. 

[Anna]

The only way a search can be done is without Aruban LE involved. You cannot trust anyone in Aruba, it is so corrupt.

Mary Ann,
I am already wondering, in light of what happened on the Persistence, just what would happen if something should be found by this new search?  Are there arrangements in place already?  Would there be documentation and chain of custody and all of that or would ALE simply be once again allowed to take everything and speed away?

It is troubling, isn't it?


.