Natalee Case Discussion #810 3/21/09 - 3/24/09

[San]

When he sticks his hand in the water are the bones going to be in nicely packed plastic bags.

[Frijole]

 

When I watch Fred Golba my BS meter just goes off the chart when I see him talk   

  Me too San.  And I've seen some BSers. He is up there.

[Tamikosmom]

Considering Fred Golba's revelation to the airline attendant regarding the pond search and ... Jim Knox's uncalled remarks to the media undermining Equusearch ... I do believe descret is not understood by this search team who are thisclose to those who possess an Aruban agenda which implies that justice will not prevail to Natalee Holloway.

Janet

+++++++


Family and EquuSearch Respond to derogatory comments from Jim Knox

Natalee Holloway’s family and EquuSearch have responded to the insensitive and derogatory comments by Jim Knox of the newest search teams in Aruba.

As reported earlier today and as seen by many last night, Jim Knox, of the new search team in Aruba made some pretty accusatory and inflammatory comments regarding previous search groups in Aruba. The insinuation was that Knox was referring to Texas EquuSearch in the following comment as much as Mr. Knox wises to play games of parsing words and state that he never mentioned EquuSearch by name. (The entire transcript of comments can be seen here.)

8/14/05
Big Story (Jamie Colby)
FOX News Channel

JK: We arrived on Wednesday, we started working Wednesday afternoon. We met with police first thing as soon as we got off the plane, that’s where we started the cooperation. They were mightily impressed. We presented Fred’s resume of over 2000 finds in 17 different countries and states. They’ve watched the dogs work, they’re impressed, they know that we’re working.

Jamie, I’ve had 1 beer in a week with a hamburger in Saturday.  The previous searchers were taking tubs and ice chests of beer out with them. They’d work 2 hours and come in. They had equipment they didn’t know how to use. I could give you a world of information but…. [

++++++

When emailing the family and talking with some of them personally, all were profoundly disappointed in the actions and the comments made by Jim Knox. What makes matters even worse is it appears that members of the family had spoke to Knox before be left for Aruba an stated they asked Knox to discuss his searches with the media and not talk about previous search team’s efforts. I guess Jim Knox did not understand that conversation. Especially seeing that before he even came to Aruba he made other inflammatory and derogatory comments.

The following is an email that I received from Dave and Robin Holloway this afternoon regarding this matter:

I want to take a moment to defend EquuSearch. Dave and I frequently read posts from this website and want to take this opportunity to let everyone know how much we appreciated EquuSearch and all of the hard work and volunteering they have done in our efforts to find Natalee. Dave was with them every day they were there. The only tubs we saw they carried were filled with water and soft drinks! They are wonderful people and very dear friends of ours that we will stay in touch with the rest of our lives. Negative comments from other searchers will do nothing to assist in our search for Natalee and we feel this was uncalled for. We appreciate all of the volunteers who are looking for Natalee, but want to keep it civil and professional.

Thank you so much for all of your prayers and support! That is the only thing getting us through this.
 
Dave and Robin
________

I also received am email from Linda Allison that stated the following:

“It is unfortunate that the comments were made last night since it is irrelevant to finding Natalee. I have always been a very big advocate of EquuSearch and have met some truly outstanding, hard-working, and caring individuals”.

I also personally spoke with Paul Reynolds this afternoon at great length and discussed the unfortunate issue at hand and how many people were hurt by these comment. I told Paul that there were many volunteers and caring people out there that were profoundly hurt that their efforts were undermined by the selfish and insensitive comments made by Mr. Knox. I told Paul that people truly care about Natalee and your family and want there to be closure for you, but such comments can only do harm and make people not care. In talking to Paul, he was bewildered and simply shocked at the comments that were made. He called Jim Knox today to tell him just that. It was my understanding that the conversation was pretty much a one sided one with Paul doing the talking voicing his displeasure. Paul told Scared Monkeys that he wanted to apologized for the unfortunate and childish comments made by Knox and in no way did the family support anything that Mr. Knox said. Paul also wished to say the following:

“I am shocked and dismayed at the irresponsibility and inappropriateness of these comments. We have always welcomed every volunteer and every person to help find Natalee. Everyone has been gracious, respectful and diligent in this effort to help our family and to go on the air, in a live broadcast and make such inaccurate and derogatory comments is unbelievable wrong and insensitive.”

________

I also received am email from Tim Miller of EquuSearch. I did not want to bother Tim as he has been recovering himself from an illness.

Statement from Tim Miller:

I am very hurt and offended by allegations made in our efforts to search for Natalee Holloway. We brought in every resource we thought possible in her safe return or search for her remains.

I was personally very optimistic going into the Natalee search that she would be located, probably deceased.

Probably the most disappointed people besides Natalee’s family was each one of the 93 volunteers from Texas Equusearch that had to leave that island with no results.

I am extremely proud of every effort every volunteer made. I am extremely grateful to every person that sent us a donation allowing us to continue the search as long as we did.

We also realize the struggles of Natalee’s family and did everything we could do to help support them in any way we could.

Texas Equusearch at this point is several thousands of dollars in the red and credit card bills continue coming in. We will defer these expenses through our own fund raisers and we are not asking for the public to support us in these expenses.

We are asking everyone to continue praying for this family during this terrible time of need. Let us continue praying for the other families who also have missing loved ones who have not received the support that was given in the Natalee Holloway search.

On a joking side, I have no turtle eggs and really don’t enjoy turtle soup and I’m very disturbed that Paul VDS felt as though I threatened him, but hopefully someday he’ll allow his property to be searched.

As far as statements from Jim Knox and Fred Golba, I have thick skin and will deal with these as needed.

Again I appreciate all the support that we’ve received during the Natalee Holloway search and other efforts we’ve been involved in.

Hopefully Natalee’s disappearance will not be in vein and resources gathered will be used for our missing loved ones in the future.

God Bless all, Your Friend
Tim Miller

+++++++

Thus at the time these comments were made the family members had no idea they were being said. Some even found out through SM and direct emails and telephone calls from either myself or other Monkeys for the first time.

Thus everyone can see how one person’s agenda and comments can waste valuable time and resources in the primary goal to find Natalee Holloway. Amazing when one makes thyself bigger than the story. I have to admit I was suspect of Mr. Knox by his previous comments when I previously posted, Calling All SAR’s; Search More, Talk Later.

How anyone can go to Aruba and help in the search for Natalee and use the media air time for their own personal gain, agenda or vendetta is truly reprehensible. I hardly think that this is what the family expected out of Jim Knox nor what he ever claimed he would do prior to coming to Aruba. Jim Knox has has embarrassed himself, the family and the investigation by his actions and I hope understands and makes amends for his foolishness.

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2005/08/15/family-and-equusearch-respond-to-derogatory-comments-from-jim-knox/

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2005/08/15/new-searchers-and-fox-news-have-some-explaining-to-do/

[San]

When I watch Fred Golba my BS meter just goes off the chart when I see him talk   

  Me too San.  And I've seen some BSers. He is up there.

How he could actually sit there with a straight face and do that amazes me.

[Frijole]

When I watch Fred Golba my BS meter just goes off the chart when I see him talk   

  Me too San.  And I've seen some BSers. He is up there.

How he could actually sit there with a straight face and do that amazes me.

Money.  Media Attention.  Ego.  Makes me sick.  I don't even want to think about how much Dave is paying him. 

[bc73]

When he sticks his hand in the water are the bones going to be in nicely packed plastic bags.

And will Caps be under the mud passing them?

[San]

And while I'm at it, if he comes up with bones and it's actually Natalee we all know he was in on the plan.

[BUCKSHOT]

When he sticks his hand in the water are the bones going to be in nicely packed plastic bags.

And will Caps be under the mud passing them?

Anonimo will be handing them to Robo Golba and Aqua Rhino.

 

[texasmom]

Considering Fred Golba's revelation to the airline attendant regarding the pond search and ... Jim Knox's uncalled remarks to the media undermining Equusearch ... I do believe descret is not understood by this search team who are thisclose to those who possess an Aruban agenda which implies that justice will not prevail to Natalee Holloway.

Janet

+++++++


Family and EquuSearch Respond to derogatory comments from Jim Knox

Natalee Holloway’s family and EquuSearch have responded to the insensitive and derogatory comments by Jim Knox of the newest search teams in Aruba.

As reported earlier today and as seen by many last night, Jim Knox, of the new search team in Aruba made some pretty accusatory and inflammatory comments regarding previous search groups in Aruba. The insinuation was that Knox was referring to Texas EquuSearch in the following comment as much as Mr. Knox wises to play games of parsing words and state that he never mentioned EquuSearch by name. (The entire transcript of comments can be seen here.)

8/14/05
Big Story (Jamie Colby)
FOX News Channel

JK: We arrived on Wednesday, we started working Wednesday afternoon. We met with police first thing as soon as we got off the plane, that’s where we started the cooperation. They were mightily impressed. We presented Fred’s resume of over 2000 finds in 17 different countries and states. They’ve watched the dogs work, they’re impressed, they know that we’re working.

Jamie, I’ve had 1 beer in a week with a hamburger in Saturday.  The previous searchers were taking tubs and ice chests of beer out with them. They’d work 2 hours and come in. They had equipment they didn’t know how to use. I could give you a world of information but…. [

++++++

When emailing the family and talking with some of them personally, all were profoundly disappointed in the actions and the comments made by Jim Knox. What makes matters even worse is it appears that members of the family had spoke to Knox before be left for Aruba an stated they asked Knox to discuss his searches with the media and not talk about previous search team’s efforts. I guess Jim Knox did not understand that conversation. Especially seeing that before he even came to Aruba he made other inflammatory and derogatory comments.

The following is an email that I received from Dave and Robin Holloway this afternoon regarding this matter:

I want to take a moment to defend EquuSearch. Dave and I frequently read posts from this website and want to take this opportunity to let everyone know how much we appreciated EquuSearch and all of the hard work and volunteering they have done in our efforts to find Natalee. Dave was with them every day they were there. The only tubs we saw they carried were filled with water and soft drinks! They are wonderful people and very dear friends of ours that we will stay in touch with the rest of our lives. Negative comments from other searchers will do nothing to assist in our search for Natalee and we feel this was uncalled for. We appreciate all of the volunteers who are looking for Natalee, but want to keep it civil and professional.

Thank you so much for all of your prayers and support! That is the only thing getting us through this.
 
Dave and Robin
________

I also received am email from Linda Allison that stated the following:

“It is unfortunate that the comments were made last night since it is irrelevant to finding Natalee. I have always been a very big advocate of EquuSearch and have met some truly outstanding, hard-working, and caring individuals”.

I also personally spoke with Paul Reynolds this afternoon at great length and discussed the unfortunate issue at hand and how many people were hurt by these comment. I told Paul that there were many volunteers and caring people out there that were profoundly hurt that their efforts were undermined by the selfish and insensitive comments made by Mr. Knox. I told Paul that people truly care about Natalee and your family and want there to be closure for you, but such comments can only do harm and make people not care. In talking to Paul, he was bewildered and simply shocked at the comments that were made. He called Jim Knox today to tell him just that. It was my understanding that the conversation was pretty much a one sided one with Paul doing the talking voicing his displeasure. Paul told Scared Monkeys that he wanted to apologized for the unfortunate and childish comments made by Knox and in no way did the family support anything that Mr. Knox said. Paul also wished to say the following:

“I am shocked and dismayed at the irresponsibility and inappropriateness of these comments. We have always welcomed every volunteer and every person to help find Natalee. Everyone has been gracious, respectful and diligent in this effort to help our family and to go on the air, in a live broadcast and make such inaccurate and derogatory comments is unbelievable wrong and insensitive.”

________

I also received am email from Tim Miller of EquuSearch. I did not want to bother Tim as he has been recovering himself from an illness.

Statement from Tim Miller:

I am very hurt and offended by allegations made in our efforts to search for Natalee Holloway. We brought in every resource we thought possible in her safe return or search for her remains.

I was personally very optimistic going into the Natalee search that she would be located, probably deceased.

Probably the most disappointed people besides Natalee’s family was each one of the 93 volunteers from Texas Equusearch that had to leave that island with no results.

I am extremely proud of every effort every volunteer made. I am extremely grateful to every person that sent us a donation allowing us to continue the search as long as we did.

We also realize the struggles of Natalee’s family and did everything we could do to help support them in any way we could.

Texas Equusearch at this point is several thousands of dollars in the red and credit card bills continue coming in. We will defer these expenses through our own fund raisers and we are not asking for the public to support us in these expenses.

We are asking everyone to continue praying for this family during this terrible time of need. Let us continue praying for the other families who also have missing loved ones who have not received the support that was given in the Natalee Holloway search.

On a joking side, I have no turtle eggs and really don’t enjoy turtle soup and I’m very disturbed that Paul VDS felt as though I threatened him, but hopefully someday he’ll allow his property to be searched.

As far as statements from Jim Knox and Fred Golba, I have thick skin and will deal with these as needed.

Again I appreciate all the support that we’ve received during the Natalee Holloway search and other efforts we’ve been involved in.

Hopefully Natalee’s disappearance will not be in vein and resources gathered will be used for our missing loved ones in the future.

God Bless all, Your Friend
Tim Miller

+++++++

Thus at the time these comments were made the family members had no idea they were being said. Some even found out through SM and direct emails and telephone calls from either myself or other Monkeys for the first time.

Thus everyone can see how one person’s agenda and comments can waste valuable time and resources in the primary goal to find Natalee Holloway. Amazing when one makes thyself bigger than the story. I have to admit I was suspect of Mr. Knox by his previous comments when I previously posted, Calling All SAR’s; Search More, Talk Later.

How anyone can go to Aruba and help in the search for Natalee and use the media air time for their own personal gain, agenda or vendetta is truly reprehensible. I hardly think that this is what the family expected out of Jim Knox nor what he ever claimed he would do prior to coming to Aruba. Jim Knox has has embarrassed himself, the family and the investigation by his actions and I hope understands and makes amends for his foolishness.

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2005/08/15/family-and-equusearch-respond-to-derogatory-comments-from-jim-knox/

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2005/08/15/new-searchers-and-fox-news-have-some-explaining-to-do/

Thank you Janet!  Here's more:

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2005/08/10/search-more-talk-later/

8/10/2005

Calling All SAR’s; Search More, Talk Later

snip:
 
Fred Golba said he has a plan to find Holloway.

He will use specialized techniques to search the sandy beaches of Aruba.

Search dogs, Astro and Rhino, who Golba trained will be with him. Golba thinks they will help him succeed where everyone else failed.

“It’s been searched, but it hasn’t been properly searched. Not out of arrogance out of confidence. I have a lot of confidence that I’ll find that body from what I’ve seen,” he said.

snip

[San]

When he sticks his hand in the water are the bones going to be in nicely packed plastic bags.

And will Caps be under the mud passing them?

OK Fred are you ready.  When you see me make three bubbles stick your hand in the water.  If it is only two bubbles just say the dog farted.

[klaasend]

SAN  

[texasmom]

When he sticks his hand in the water are the bones going to be in nicely packed plastic bags.

And will Caps be under the mud passing them?

OK Fred are you ready.  When you see me make three bubbles stick your hand in the water.  If it is only two bubbles just say the dog farted.

 

[Kermit]

When I watch Fred Golba my BS meter just goes off the chart when I see him talk   

A body "let go in a pond" would have floated back up.
If the body was weighted down, the body gases would make it float back up ie: Laci Peterson

* Dompig
* Caps witness
* pond
* Silvetti
* trap contents were: skull, bones, shoe
* Aruba thinks handing over the bones of Natalee will close it out and they won't have to bring justice, they won't close the case so they do not have to hand over any documents/evidence and Joran and Kalpoes go remain free.
* They need someone they can trust to hand over Natalee's body, someone that is friends with them.



'Rita Cosby Live & Direct' for March 15
updated 9:08 a.m. PT, Thurs., March. 16, 2006

Dompig and Fred have established a strong rapport and a great deal of trust between them, and that‘s why he is there.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11857796/

 

[bc73]

When he sticks his hand in the water are the bones going to be in nicely packed plastic bags.

And will Caps be under the mud passing them?

OK Fred are you ready.  When you see me make three bubbles stick your hand in the water.  If it is only two bubbles just say the dog farted.

Lets stop blaming Aqua Rhino for the gas. Put a leash on Renfro, and make this circus more believable.

[Tamikosmom]

There is a thread RU and right now they are arguing whether any of the MG kids said NH was back at the hotel.  This link was provided by LoRain, but look where she got it?

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,159764,00.html





Any question now why I don't trust LoRain?  Of course neither Alana or Kissle say NH came back to the hotel but REALITY gave that link to LoRain as proof.

Not surprised at all Klaas!  No question in my mind at all why you don't trust her, only why others at pro Natalee sites DO trust her.  Her activities speak for her agenda loud and clear.

This is just another fine example of the services LoRain provides for Reality and her other "friends" at BNH.  It's no wonder she was welcomed back even after being banned there for creating drama about Rene Gielen's participation on their forum.

 

Your got to be kidding me.  Gielen participates on that forum also?  Sick. Sick.  Sorry but Robin (Dave's wife) is a piece of work imo.

It is not just LoRain ... it appears that Reality must be a real charmer.  After contact with guy ... women are hooked and ... justice for Natalee Holloway takes a backseat.

 

Janet

++++++

May 9, 2008

Robin,

Your comment regarding me (my) posting BS about Reality is actually funny. You've allowed a select few people to take control of your thought process and I find that very sad.

How many times have you been told that Reality said nasty disgusting things about Natalee and Beth? How many times have you seen the disgusting (sexual in nature) PM's that Reality sent to female members of the forums? Do you really believe all of these people are lying? What possible reason would there be for all these people to lie about the things Reality has done and said?

I am hard pressed to find anyone who agrees with your position and approach. You've lost all respect and support from the public. Dave is running an extremely close second to you now, due to your actions and his inability to control your damage. Does this make you proud? Is that what you want? I do not see what you expect to gain from these questionable alliances. Do you think Reality knows something that you don't? If you do then that would indicate his involvement and that would warrant your condemnation. If you don't then what does he bring to justify your loyalty? I hope Dave wakes up very soon and realizes what you are doing and have done. You are associating with people who have an agenda contrary to Dave's goal to find his precious daughter. I will never understand why he allows you to undermine his efforts.

Due to your actions and behavior, nothing short of a live and breathing Natalee who publicly tells her step-mother to shut-the-hell-up would satisfy me at this point.

You are a very naive woman and it shows. Why are you making a fool of yourself, Robin? Are you actually that gullible?

I pray Natalee's case is solved. I pray Beth & Dave will have closure one day. I pray you see the light!


Faith

[Tamikosmom]

The following thread is a very informative thread.  It is beyond comprehension why Robin Holloway upholds both Reality and MIP6 (Mark Purcell).

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1896.0

[Kermit]

When he sticks his hand in the water are the bones going to be in nicely packed plastic bags.

And will Caps be under the mud passing them?

OK Fred are you ready.  When you see me make three bubbles stick your hand in the water.  If it is only two bubbles just say the dog farted.

LOL SAN!!!!!

[klaasend]

Janet - don't get me started on that aspect of it 

[Kermit]

This quote by John Silvetti, below, got me thinking:

For example, John Silvetti has taken samples from the pond bottom to determine how deep they have to dig for to find something from four years ago. Silvetti: “I have asked Mos to send samples to the FBI, because I’m not allowed to do that. But as far as I know, those samples are still in the refrigerator at the police station.
http://www.ad.nl/buitenland/3007028/Dave_Holloway_geeft_zoektocht_Natalee_niet_op.html

Silvetti stated he is not allowed to send samples (evidence) to the FBI, by which I assume he means the FBI Labs.  Looking for actual verification of this, even though it does ring true, I went to the FBI's website. 

There, under the Basic FAQs, I found the following:

Does the FBI Laboratory conduct examinations of evidence for anyone other than the FBI?
Yes. In addition to performing examinations for its own cases, the FBI Laboratory conducts scientific examinations of evidence, free of charge, for any duly constituted federal, state, and/or local law enforcement organization within the United States. Such services also may be made available to foreign law enforcement agencies under special agreement between the Attorney General and the Secretary of State.
http://www.fbi.gov/aboutus/faqs/faqsone.htm

Well, that wasn't quite enough information for me, so I kept looking and ended up here:

Handbook of Forensic Services 2007
http://www.fbi.gov/hq/lab/handbook/forensics.pdf

The forensic services of the FBI Laboratory Division and the Operational Technology Division are available to the following:

• FBI field offices and legal attachés.
• U.S. attorneys, military tribunals, and other federal agencies for civil and criminal matters.
• State, county, and municipal law enforcement agencies in the United States and territorial possessions for criminal matters

and, a few pages further, here:

Submitting Evidence
http://www.fbi.gov/hq/lab/handbook/forensics.pdf  (page 7)

All international law enforcement agency/police requests should be coordinated through the appropriate FBI legal attaché (LEGAT). LEGATs should fax the request to the Evidence Control Unit, 703-632-8334, prior to submitting any evidence to the Laboratory. Questions concerning international submissions should be directed to 703-632-8360.

We already know this, but to be absolutely clear, the FBI describes their legal attache's as follows:

Legal Attaché Offices
http://www.fbi.gov/contact/legat/legat.htm

For more than six decades, the FBI has stationed agents and other personnel overseas to help protect Americans back home by building relationships with principal law enforcement, intelligence, and services around the globe and facilitating a prompt and continuous exchange of information.

Today, we have Legal Attaché offices—commonly known as Legats—and smaller sub-offices in 75 key cities around the globe, providing coverage for more than 200 countries, territories, and islands. Each office is established through mutual agreement with the host country and is situated in the U.S. embassy or consulate in that nation.

Our Legal Attaché program is managed by the Office of International Operations at FBI Headquarters in Washington, D.C. This office keeps in close contact with other federal agencies, Interpol, foreign police and security officers in Washington, and national and international law enforcement associations. International liaison and information sharing are conducted in accordance with Executive Orders, laws, treaties, Attorney General Guidelines, FBI policies, and interagency agreements.

We already knew this as well, but just to re-verify...which legat would Aruba be going through to coordinate the submission of evidence to the FBI labs? 

http://www.fbi.gov/contact/legat/americas.htm

Bridgetown, Barbados
American Embassy: 1-246-436-4950
Nassau Suboffice
American Consulate: 1-242-322-1181
Nations covered: Anguilla, Antigua and Barbuda, Aruba, the Bahamas, Barbados, Bermuda, Bonaire, Cayman Islands, Curaçao, Dominica, Grenada, Guadeloupe, Martinique,  Montserrat, Saba, St. Bathelemy, St. Christopher (St. Kitts) and Nevis, St. Eustatius, St. Lucia, St. Maarten, St. Martin, St. Vincent and the Grenadines, and the Turks and Caicos Islands.

According to FBI Lab protocol - Mos/ALE had to go through the Barbados Legat to submit the material (or anything else) to the FBI Lab anyway.

So, it seems to me that a proper protocol onboard the Persistence could (and should) have been to recover any evidence they found themselves, (without contacting the Aruban authorities first) then contact the Barbados Legat and turn over the evidence to them, leaving the FBI then responsible for getting the evidence to Mos/ALE, and coordinating the submission of that evidence to the FBI Labs on behalf of the Prosecutor.

Why, oh why, did anyone ever agree to perform a search under the condition that ALE receive first contact upon discovery of potential evidence or remains?


JMO and only MO.

YES and why was a boat guy out there meeting with a potential witness of a crime and lallygagging around the pond that is suppose to be a potential crime scene.

[nonesuche]

SAN