Natalee Case Discussion #810 3/21/09 - 3/24/09

[Kermit]

But the pond did dry up, Jossy even took a shoe that was found and turned it over to ALE.  Why didn't Caps let his "uncle" go and stick his hands in the mud when it was dryed up? 

Crazy isn't it Kermie?

I agree Blue Moon. Seems like they don't have any common sense.

[BUCKSHOT]

Just watched NG again:

(1) CLW produced this witness. CLW (a disinformant) and witness are not credible.

(2) Pond witness passed two polygraph tests. Witness (and CLW) are credible.

I am confused. Which one is it? Credible or not.

[Blue Moon]

Kermit do you know who Caps is?  Does Beth know who Caps is?  Is Beth not buying into this because she knows who the dis-information is coming from?

[BUCKSHOT]

Also, from NG:

Jossy says he knows this witness well and believes him and his account. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

NG asks Jossy, paraphrased: Why won't ALE do this search? Why does DH have to foot bill? Jossy answers that prosecutor is one who would initiate search and he believes they want to close case. Who is prosecutor? Mos has allegedly been relieved of his duties so who is prosecutor, currently?

[Kermit]

April 3, 2008: LeallyLex posted on BFN

The surveyors from the Persistence were also working with the Maritime Police and Prosecutor's Office utilizing bottom scanning sonar in ponds and murky bodies of water
_________________________________________

April 7, 2008 KYLE posted:
A few minutes ago I got another inquiry from Aruba about the pond sonar targets. This is good news. This suggests they are actively working on the case and interested in searching this pond real soon.
_________________________________________
May 8, 2008 KYLE posted John Silvetti may be returning to ARuba very soon. The pond search we conducted with SonaDyne Scanning Sonar is inconclusive.
I do know the following about this pond:
- Is next to the soccer field Joran spend a lot of time playing on and was well familiar with
- Is tucked away from view and roads
- Is between points where we know/suspect he was that night
- The pond was nearly full at the time of Natalee's death
- The pond was empty or nearly empty at least once since that time
- The pond was about 80% capacity when we searched it with the sonar.
_______________________________________________

[Kermit]

Kermit do you know who Caps is?  Does Beth know who Caps is?  Is Beth not buying into this because she knows who the dis-information is coming from?

Yes I know who Caps is.

[klaasend]

Holloway's dad says pond search may take 2 weeks


ORANJESTAD, Aruba (AP) — The father of missing American teenager Natalee Holloway said Monday that a U.S. private investigator has begun scouring a pond in Aruba for signs of his daughter and the search may take up to two weeks.

Dave Holloway said the Aruba Prosecutors' Office has asked the investigator, Fred Golba of Chicopee, Massachusetts, to not speak to reporters during his search for evidence into Natalee Holloway's May 2005 disappearance.

Holloway said the tracker dog specialist will comply with the request.

Golba will be searching the pond for "10 days to two weeks maximum" in search of any answers that have eluded the family, Holloway said from his home in Meridian, Mississippi.

Golba has searched for her eight times before on the Dutch Caribbean island. Sections of the pond area have been searched previously and no evidence was ever found.

Natalee Holloway, from Mountain Brook, Alabama, was 18 when she was last seen leaving a bar in the Aruban capital on the final night of a high school graduation trip. No trace of her has turned up despite recurrent searches and extensive publicity.

Dave Holloway said a witness last year alleged that he saw the only remaining suspect, Joran van der Sloot, coming out of the brackish pond in northwest Aruba with only one sneaker on after Natalee's disappearance.

On Monday, telephone calls to the prosecutor's office went unanswered.

Aruban police referred calls regarding the Holloway case to their office.

In early January, Chief Prosecutor Hans Mos said his office was "approaching the end of this lengthy investigation" and appealed to the public for help.

http://tinyurl.com/cbk3bd

[Kermit]

 CapsLockWizard
Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #3
« Reply #1486 on: May 08, 2008, 05:34:17 AM »

History: It was 3 day before Christmas and my dad and I were talking how strange that this girl has vanished from the radar and no one knows where she is. I google "Where is natalee" and it brought me to this place called SM and I read summery and then I remeber as a kid how I lost a brand new sneaker. Imaging comming home with one sneaker missing and telling dad that I lost it. Where? in the pond. (as a kid No one are allowed to go to these ponds due to if you feed get stuck in the mud and the sneaker is not tied down, it will stay in the mud when you tried to free one foot. in the past some kid drown becuase it is fresh water and do not have bouyence and when some one fell in, and when touch bottom, you feed will sink and get stuck.

back to the sneaker, you can not never find it since it will sink, and with time the mud will coverit up.

in day time you can not see it becuase the water is murky and dark. (It is gone for ever till the pond dried up and then you have to go and search for it under the mud.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2787.msg379904;topicseen#msg379904



Name:     CapsLockWizard
Posts:    1045 (2.282 per day)
Position:    Scared Monkey
Date Registered:    December 20, 2007, 09:38:24 PM

[BUCKSHOT]

I know this question has been answered a thousand times:

Which pond was searched and reported on TV back in summer2005?
From recollection, no one was allowed too close to the pond.
They led on that misc items were being searched for at that time.

Random thoughts of mine:
**Early on, I remember chatter about a missing shoe (of a pair). Makes you think that people on the island were naturally talking about the case early on before everything clammed up and hired disinformants kept things under wraps.
**On that note, some of the summer (June2005) chatter probably has truths to it for the same reasons as stated above. Things like a friend of the three (a female) passing them on the road at a late hour that night.
**An uncontested (by ALE) search of a particular area makes me think that nothing is there. All relevant areas were fought tooth and nail ny ALE and sabotaged, if necessary (the dump, VDS compound, etc) I do not hold out much hope. However, I do undersatnd that DH is doing it for peace of mind and has his reasons for doing so. I wonder if passed polygraphs are part of his reasoning.
**

[Blue Moon]

 CapsLockWizard
Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #3
« Reply #1486 on: May 08, 2008, 05:34:17 AM »

History: It was 3 day before Christmas and my dad and I were talking how strange that this girl has vanished from the radar and no one knows where she is. I google "Where is natalee" and it brought me to this place called SM and I read summery and then I remeber as a kid how I lost a brand new sneaker. Imaging comming home with one sneaker missing and telling dad that I lost it. Where? in the pond. (as a kid No one are allowed to go to these ponds due to if you feed get stuck in the mud and the sneaker is not tied down, it will stay in the mud when you tried to free one foot. in the past some kid drown becuase it is fresh water and do not have bouyence and when some one fell in, and when touch bottom, you feed will sink and get stuck.

back to the sneaker, you can not never find it since it will sink, and with time the mud will coverit up.

in day time you can not see it becuase the water is murky and dark. (It is gone for ever till the pond dried up and then you have to go and search for it under the mud.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2787.msg379904;topicseen#msg379904



Name:     CapsLockWizard
Posts:    1045 (2.282 per day)
Position:    Scared Monkey
Date Registered:    December 20, 2007, 09:38:24 PM

O.K. a shoe would be lost under the mud if a person walked into it and it was sucked in by the mud.  But how would a body do that if he released the body and it floated away?  The body would had to be held down and forced into the mud if I am understanding Caps logic (which I never understood his logic at all).

[Blue Moon]

I know this question has been answered a thousand times:

Which pond was searched and reported on TV back in summer2005?
From recollection, no one was allowed too close to the pond.
They led on that misc items were being searched for at that time.

Random thoughts of mine:
**Early on, I remember chatter about a missing shoe (of a pair). Makes you think that people on the island were naturally talking about the case early on before everything clammed up and hired disinformants kept things under wraps.
**On that note, some of the summer (June2005) chatter probably has truths to it for the same reasons as stated above. Things like a friend of the three (a female) passing them on the road at a late hour that night.
**An uncontested (by ALE) search of a particular area makes me think that nothing is there. All relevant areas were fought tooth and nail ny ALE and sabotaged, if necessary (the dump, VDS compound, etc) I do not hold out much hope. However, I do undersatnd that DH is doing it for peace of mind and has his reasons for doing so. I wonder if passed polygraphs are part of his reasoning.
**

The pond early on that was drained and searched was right behind the Marriott.  If you look at the map posted earlier today this pond is about half-way between the beach and JVS's home.

[BUCKSHOT]

Kermit do you know who Caps is?  Does Beth know who Caps is?  Is Beth not buying into this because she knows who the dis-information is coming from?

Yes I know who Caps is.

Do you care to give us some very clear and concise guidance that will definitively lead us to his identity, leaving no guesswork or uncertainty on our end? It may put everything in context for a lot of posters here to include myself.

(a) Vrojlik (b) Dompig (c) Jossy (d) Kalpoe (e) other______

What is your favorite letter of the alphabet, Kermie? I realize you may have more than one favorite letter.

[Anna]

On CNN program I think Prime News the bald man whose name I can never recall or don't know said TES paid for the witness to fly to the U.S. and take the polygraph test in Texas.  I thought Silvetti paid for that.

Then when someone has to be hired to search, it is Goldba because Tim Miller is not welcome or ALE will not cooperate with him?

Or he is too busy elsewhere.

In any event, I wonder how Goldba was selected for this job.

[Tamikosmom]

Blue Moon ... Caps was contradictory on this issue.

At the end of February, 2008 ... Caps was upholding the sonar scan search of the Persistence in regards to locating Joran's sneaker and Natalee Holloway's remains.

In May, 2008  ... he implies that Joran's sneaker can ONLY be found under the mud.

When Kyle Kingman's own words are considered ... the sonar scan does not reveal what is under the mud.

+++++++

texasmom
Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
« Reply #2828 on: February 28, 2008, 04:20:17 AM »

Caps,
Are you pleased with the areas that are now being searched?

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1952.msg356668#msg356668


CapsLockWizard
Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
« Reply #2830 on: February 28, 2008, 04:33:01 AM »

Yes.

At 9:00 will go over there to amke sure they do not mis a spot....The sneaker is there....where is the sneaker is the remains.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1952.msg356675;topicseen#msg356675


CapsLockWizard
Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #3
« Reply #1486 on: May 08, 2008, 05:34:17 AM »

back to the sneaker, you can not never find it since it will sink, and with time the mud will coverit up.

in day time you can not see it becuase the water is murky and dark. (It is gone for ever till the pond dried up and then you have to go and search for it under the mud.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2787.msg379904;topicseen#msg379904


KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman - 04/07/08: There are 18 targets. Two are definitely tires. The rest, who knows. It's likely tin cans, mud clumps, and debris. There is one small box-like target but it's only 2ft across and doesn't have much relief, unless it's completely sunk into the mud (likely). I can find something about the size of a hockey puck with that system in good conditions. The water was very shallow when this survey was done. Remember, in February 2006 the pond was almost dry.

[Blue Moon]

I still say the cage is where it is at.  I pray Natalee is found in that pond and this part of the nightmare is over for them.  Let's face it this case is about to be closed and Dave knows it.  Once it is closed they will NEVER want to hear the Holloway name ever again.  JMO. 

This has to do with the movie coming out.  This lets Aruba say it is all a lie, look what they allowed Dave to do in his quest to find his daughter.  And then they will say look what Beth is doing in her quest to find her daughter--make a move full of lies.  I can almost hear them right now saying that.

[Anna]

I thought the shoe that Jossy found was no where near any pond and turned out to belong to a female.

How many shoes are floating around that place anyway?

[Tamikosmom]

Kermit do you know who Caps is?  Does Beth know who Caps is?  Is Beth not buying into this because she knows who the dis-information is coming from?

Yes I know who Caps is.

Kermit ... what is the reason that you do not share?

Janet

[San]

On CNN program I think Prime News the bald man whose name I can never recall or don't know said TES paid for the witness to fly to the U.S. and take the polygraph test in Texas.  I thought Silvetti paid for that.

Then when someone has to be hired to search, it is Goldba because Tim Miller is not welcome or ALE will not cooperate with him?

Or he is too busy elsewhere.

In any event, I wonder how Goldba was selected for this job.

He is friends with the enemy.

[Anna]

Janet,

Have you ever considered Michael Dompig as a possibility in addition to his father?  He seemed very very eager to talk and was always blabbing.  I do believe he was the reason his father had to step down from his job as Chief of Police.

[billb's daughter]

Even if a body was weighted down in the pond, I don't believe remains would be so covered in mud that when the seasonal pond dried up, the remains would still be completed concealed in the mud and not exposed to easy detection.
The pond DRIES up every year...any remains would have been easily seen and discovered....reported to someone (ALE) at the least. I just can't believe IF that happened that ALE somehow was able to cover that up, considering all the international publicity going on with Natalee's disappearance through 2005.
IF remains are NOW FOUND in the pond by freddie and super snorkel dog...something is hinky.....moo