Nancy Grace Transcript 3/23/09
New Search in Natalee Holloway Disappearance
Aired March 23, 2009 - 20:00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Tonight, breaking news in the sudden disappearance of Alabama beauty Natalee Holloway, missing off her high school senior trip, Aruba. Aruban police can`t or won`t make a case against judge`s son Joran Van Der Sloot in the disappearance of Holloway, even after a Dutch crime reporter takes months of high-tech secret surveillance proving what happened the night the Alabama beauty vanished.
But tonight, the Holloway murder investigation back, back on the front burner, cadaver dogs and searchers at a pond just one mile from where Natalee last seen alive, a new witness coming forward to say he spots Joran Van Der Sloot just after Natalee`s disappearance leaving the very same area. With him, Paulus Van Der Sloot, his father. The witness even IDs the judge`s vehicle and then passes two independent polygraphs. Tonight, investigators combing the bottom of the pond for clues, including the bones of the 17-year-old Alabama beauty.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Joran Van Der Sloot waded out here in the water, and you know, went out chest deep and let her body go in this retention pond.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I want to come through the TV and I want to kill him, I mean, and peel the skin off his face.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Fred Golba is a last resort for families desperate for answers.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is my purpose, my reason in life.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He`s also the chief of field operations for the Natalee Holloway Foundation. He`s been helping in the search for the girl since 2005. Friday, he left for Aruba to follow a new lead. He says a witness has just come forward with new information about lead suspect Joran Van Der Sloot. He says the witness reports seeing Van Der Sloot muddy and missing a sneaker.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Finding his sneaker is almost as good as finding her body.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Fred Golba and his tracker dog will scour one particular retention pond.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And he told what he did with the body and he told how he came home, what he did with his shoes. It`s -- it`s the complete story.
BETH HOLLOWAY TWITTY, NATALEE`S MOTHER: He has just totally, totally dragged us all through hell with him, this Joran Van Der Sloot.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Also tonight, breaking news in the desperate search for a 2- year-old Florida girl, Caylee. Six months of searching culminates when skeletal remains found in a heavily wooded area just 15 houses from the Anthonys` home confirmed to be Caylee, manner of death homicide. A utility meter reader stumbles on a tiny human skeleton, including a skull covered in light-colored hair, the killer placing a heart-shaped sticker directly over the mouth, then triple-bagging little Caylee like she`s trash.
Bombshell tonight. Has the biological father of little Caylee finally been outed? And what, if anything, will it mean at the murder one trial? Not one but two private eyes hired by the Anthony family on the hot seat, both men caught on camera searching the same wooded area where Caylee`s remains discovered.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is Orange County utility emergency dispatch. We found a human skull.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There`s a man with a videocamera. That man is Jim Hoover, and that is the man saying, I have that video from the crime scene, but there was no body, so close in time to when those remains were found.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What I do know is that Hoover`s cell phone, some still photos and the tape, according to what he told one the media people in Orlando, have been confiscated by the FBI.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This development about the videotape is huge in this case. How would somebody know to go out there?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you know who the father of -- of Caylee...
LEE ANTHONY, CASEY ANTHONY`S BROTHER: I do not know...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Objection. Certify.
LEE ANTHONY: ... with 100 percent...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You don`t have to answer that question.
GRACE: Who`s the father?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What Casey told Jesse was that the father was a one-night stand who apparently, a year later, dies in some mysterious car accident. And so the answer to your question is nobody really knows except for Casey.
CASEY ANTHONY, CAYLEE`S MOTHER: I truly, truly love that little girl and miss her so much.
CINDY ANTHONY, CASEY`S MOTHER: Are you protecting Caylee or are you protecting me? Or are you protecting whom?
CASEY ANTHONY: I`m protecting our family, yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And tonight, to Satsuma, Florida. A 5-year-old girl tucked into bed, five hours later, she`s gone, vanished into thin air, the back door propped wide open. Dad comes home from the night shift to find not a single trace of little Haleigh. As the search goes on for 5-year-old Haleigh, girlfriend/baby-sitter/teen bride warned to be careful when she speaks to police, her own family concerned Misty Croslin`s stories to police about the night Haleigh disappeared are, quote, "mixed up."
And the custody battle brewing over Haleigh`s 4-year-old little brother. Both sides lawyer up as photos emerge of the children with cuts, bruises on face, arms, legs. Tonight, we have the photos. But what does this mean in the search for Haleigh? Tonight, where is 5-year-old Florida girl, Haleigh?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MISTY CUMMINGS, HALEIGH`S STEPMOTHER: I just want to let everybody know that I was home because I did pass my lie detector test saying that I was home.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The inconsistencies of Misty Croslin...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) she said that the (INAUDIBLE) it was her, Junior (INAUDIBLE) Haleigh. They were all in the bed. What she meant was they were all in the bedroom together, but Haleigh was on the small, like, toddler-size mattress (INAUDIBLE) foot of the bed by the TV.
GRACE: Ronald, has the theory that Misty left the home sometime during the night been disproved?
RONALD CUMMINGS, HALEIGH`S FATHER: I`m not sure. I believe that it has.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The police have not -- still have not been able to put together a timeline on exactly what happened that night because of her inconsistencies.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We almost (ph) have to tell her to watch what she says not because she`s hiding anything but that it just gets so mixed up.
MISTY CUMMINGS: I put her to bed at 8:00 o`clock. That`s her bedtime because she has school. She didn`t go to sleep -- she was probably sleeping about 30 minutes. I was washing our blankets. I went and put her -- laid her blanket over top of her. She was sleeping. And then I made my bed and got into bed.
GRACE: What time did she go to bed?
RONALD CUMMINGS: Approximately 10:30, 11:00.
GRACE: At 10:30, 11:00. At that time, was little Haleigh in the bed asleep with the brother?
RONALD CUMMINGS: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was told they was all three in the same bed.
MISTY CUMMINGS: I just want everybody to know they didn`t do anything with that little girl. I love her like she`s my own!
RONALD CUMMINGS: Bring my little girl home, please. Whoever`s got her, please bring her home. I`d give everything I got to bring my daughter home.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Tonight, the Holloway murder investigation back on the front burner, cadaver dogs and searchers at a pond just one mile from where Natalee last seen alive.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If I miss it by hand, hopefully, he`ll pick it up by scent.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Golba`s assistant, Rhino (ph). He`s a human remains detection certified dog. Together, they will comb the bottom of the pond less than a mile from the hotel where Natalee was last seen.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So if I can go in there and mark off small grids - - and what I want to do is stick my arms from my elbows to my shoulders and feel for bones and feel for Joran`s sneakers.
TWITTY: It make me sick. I want to come through the screen and kill him when he imitates her. He imitates her and she`s suffering.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It will be a tricky feat in the black abyss that is 15 feet deep in part.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When you go into a panic, which he said he did, the first thing you think of is call an ambulance. And with him choosing the alternative of getting rid of her, something else happened.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Patrick was asking him, How can you be so sure that Natalee was dead? And then he said, Well, I wasn`t. She was just not moving anymore. I thought she must be dead. And then he dumped her into the ocean.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And I have more confidence in this pond than anything I`ve ever done in the eight trips that I`ve been on this island.
TWITTY: It`s just despicable what he has done.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to Susan Candiotti, CNN correspondent. The Natalee Holloway investigation back on the front burner after all this time, a cadaver dog, searchers going through a pond by hand, looking for the bones of Natalee Holloway? What`s happening, Susan Candiotti?
SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Nancy. It`s nice to talk with you again.
GRACE: Likewise.
CANDIOTTI: It`s just another curious -- thanks. It`s just another curious development, really, in this ongoing tragic case. What happened is, is that Dave Holloway became concerned that this pond, a pond there that had been searched before, had not been thoroughly searched. He was talking about a witness that came forward that had talked with the police before and had said that he saw someone the night that Natalee disappeared near a pond, breathlessly running away from there with only one sneaker on, that that person left there, came back later, this time in a car with another person.
And so the theory is, is that this pond, which is described to me as being very near Joran Van Der Sloot`s home, needs to be searched again. And that`s why Dave Holloway has hired this man to go search this pond that the authorities have already looked at.
GRACE: Well, what I don`t understand -- to Jossy Mansur joining us, he is the owner of "Diario" magazine -- why isn`t the Aruban government searching the pond? Why is Dave Holloway footing the bill to look for the bones of his daughter?
JOSSY MANSUR, OWNER, "DIARIO": Because the Aruban government has always based itself on the recommendations of the prosecution, and the only thing that the prosecution wants to do is close this case, Nancy.
GRACE: Why, Jossy? I don`t understand. Why is the Aruban government so hell-bent on closing this case without a resolution? This witness, to my understanding, has passed not one but two independent polygraphs. He even identifies the make and model of the vehicle, which goes back to Daddy, Paulus Van Der Sloot, a red Jeep. Why is the Aruban government ignoring this?
MANSUR: I don`t know why. But we will have to ask them to answer that question. But I know this man, the witness, very well. I`ve known him for a long time. And I believe in what he says, especially after whatever he said was confirmed by two polygraph tests which he passed brilliantly.
GRACE: To our staffer, Matt Zarrell, on the very case from the very beginning. Matt, explain to me, what does this guy claim he saw?
MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE STAFFER: Well, the night that Natalee Holloway disappeared, he claims that at 4:00 AM, he was awoken by a neighbor`s dog. He goes out to the living room and he looks, he sees a young man, wet from the chest down, leaving the pond area to the right, headed towards the hotels. Now, a few minutes later, the man comes back.
Now, one thing to note is he said this man was missing a shoe. The next thing he knows, the man comes back, but he`s in a red Jeep with an older man in the driver`s seat. And that`s determined that it was Paul Van Der Sloot driving the car and Joran was the passenger.
GRACE: Paulus Van Der Sloot -- I`m sure you remember every shot we get of him is nothing but behind and elbows as he runs away from the camera when we ask questions.
Everyone, we are taking your calls live. We`ll be back in 30 seconds.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Straight out to the lines. Adelaide in Washington. Hi, Adelaide.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy.
GRACE: Oh, there`s Paulus Van Der Sloot. That`s a great shot of him. Go ahead, Adelaide. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, I`m calling -- first of all, thank you for taking my call and for those beautiful children. I just love watching your children.
GRACE: Thank you. And thank you for calling in, dear.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You`re welcome. My question is, do you think the government of Aruba is covering for this judge because he is a judge? Because, I mean, they have evidence that this -- this boy of his went and confessed on camera, and they`re not doing anything about it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And I have more confidence in this pond than anything I`ve ever done in the eight trips that I`ve been on this island.
It`s not about how many searches you do, it`s about how many successes you have.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s a new search today for Natalee Holloway. Again, she disappeared during a high school class trip to Aruba. That was almost four years ago, believe it or not. But her dad not giving up. Dave Holloway sent a search dog to Aruba on Friday, and today a private investigator`s checking out a retention pond.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This witness came forward and he has given his statement to the local authorities, as well as he flew to Texas and took a lie detector test, which he passed. The local authorities have checked his -- his statements, and they don`t really match what they know that Joran did that night. So although the focus is still very heavily on Joran, they don`t believe that Joran was in this particular pond.
His story is that he was awoken by dogs. He got up to see what the racket was about and he saw someone that looked very similar to Joran`s stature walking in the dark. And when he got underneath the lightpost, he could, you know, basically tell what he was wearing. He only had one shoe.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Aruban authorities have apparently ignored a witness that has passed two polygraphs, a witness that claims he sees a young man the night Natalee Holloway goes missing, wet from the chest down, missing a shoe. The man re-emerges later but with an older white male driving the vehicle, obviously identified as Paulus Van Der Sloot, the judge, Joran Van Der Sloot`s father.
We are taking your calls. I want to go quickly to Tracy Sargent and her dog, Cinco. She`s a K-9 handler, a search, rescue and recovery specialist. Tracy, so much time has passed since Natalee`s body was hidden somewhere on or around the island of Aruba. Is it possible for the cadaver dog, the dog searching tonight, now, right now, a new search for the body of Natalee Holloway -- is it possible this much later to find the body with a cadaver dog?
TRACY SARGENT, K-9 HANDLER: Yes, ma`am, it is. Certainly, the water recovery aspect of that search is challenging. But as long as scent is there, it`s basically impossible to hide scent from a dog. So there is a possibility that the dogs will respond to scent at that retention pond, if there is something there.
GRACE: Even under water, correct, Tracy?
SARGENT: Yes, ma`am, that is correct. And fortunately, this pond is not that deep. So that`s certainly going to help the scent conditions.
GRACE: And before your demonstration, very quickly, Tracy, what about the fact that Aruba is somewhat isolated there in the water? It is surrounded obviously by water, but very strong winds. How would that affect this much later the possibility of a cadaver dog actually hitting on Natalee`s remains?
SARGENT: Well, one advantage the searchers have is the fact that it is a pond and it`s a relatively small pond, which interestingly, contains a scent source. The wind conditions -- what will happen, handlers will approach the search area based upon wind conditions and try to get the dog where the wind is coming into the dog`s face, so if there`s any scent there, the scent will come into the dog. And that way, the handlers can see how the dogs respond to that and work the area accordingly.
GRACE: Right now, specialists called back to the island of Aruba to search, search for Natalee`s body. They`re also searching for articles of clothing, specifically a shoe belonging to judge`s son Joran Van Der Sloot.
Tracy, I believe you have a demonstration for us?
SARGENT: Yes, ma`am. What we`re going to do is we`re going to show you how the dog responds to cadaver scent. Cinco, hunt! And what he`s telling us by his trained alert -- in this case, a sit -- he`s telling us there`s human remains scent here. And this is what`s going to happen down in Aruba. If there`s human remains, the dog will do a physical response and tell the handler, Hey, you need to check this area right here.
GRACE: Tracy, what are you using tonight in studio for the dog to search for?
SARGENT: Interestingly, when you mention articles -- this is a piece of article that has been removed from a body bag, from a decomposing body. So there is human remains scent in this container that the dog is responding to.
GRACE: So that`s a piece of the body bag?
SARGENT: No, it is a piece of sheet that the body was in, and that sheet was inside of a body bag.
GRACE: Pretty impressive, Tracy Sargent and Cinco.
We`re take your calls. To Joanne in Florida. Hi, Joanne.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. I just want to say thank you. I think you`re a great champion of victims` rights. And without you, I don`t know where a lot of victims would be.
GRACE: Thank you. Thank you. What`s your question, dear?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, my question is the Holloway family, what they`ve gone through and what they`ve endured. Are they home waiting for, you know, some sort of closure, justice?
GRACE: Good question. Susan Candiotti, CNN correspondent on the case since the very beginning, where is the family, if we know?
CANDIOTTI: Well, I`m not certain. I know that Dave Holloway decided not to accompany this gentleman with the cadaver dog who`s gone down to the island again and is waiting to see what he comes up with before, evidently, he wants to speak more publicly about this.
I want to say that the prosecutor`s office told me today they are not disregarding what this man said, but they felt as though since they had already examined the pond before, that they have included this man`s...
GRACE: Really?
CANDIOTTI: ... information, they did interview him...
GRACE: Susan? Susan?
CANDIOTTI: ... and included it in their report...
GRACE: Susan, before we go to break...
CANDIOTTI: Yes?
GRACE: ... what type of examination did they do of the pond, the Aruban government?
CANDIOTTI: They told me that they went through -- a search of the pond, draining it and looking through it.
GRACE: It`s my understanding that they drained...
CANDIOTTI: I`m not sure, actually -- let me take that back. I`m not sure if they drained it.
GRACE: They drained...
CANDIOTTI: But they said that they searched the pond.
GRACE: ... a different pond. This pond has not been drained.
Everyone, right now, cadaver dogs there in Aruba searching for Natalee Holloway`s body.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s hurt us tremendously, other families tremendously, and some innocent people of Aruba. He has no remorse, no -- total disregard for anyone else except for himself.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Breaking news tonight in Aruba. Cadaver dogs and searchers searching again for the body of Natalee Holloway. Just when so many people had given up on justice in the Natalee Holloway disappearance, now is there a break in the case?
Back to Jossy Mansur, owner of "Diario" magazine. Jossy, our very first caller tonight, Adelaide in Washington, wanted to know was there some type of cover-up? Because all the evidence clearly indicates Joran Van Der Sloot`s involvement in her disappearance, yet nothing has been done.
MANSUR: Well, I think that from the beginning, there was some kind of a hush on the case. There was some kind of an attempt to let this Joran Van Der Sloot off scot-free. And we`ve seen it grow as the investigation goes on. And I believe that there was a cover-up.
GRACE: Jossy, has this pond ever been drained?
MANSUR: No, this pond was never drained. The pond across the street from the Marriott Hotel was drained. This pond was searched superficially in the past.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TWITTY: They have really had just such a botched investigation from the beginning. And whether that was due to incompetence or corruption or cover-up, I mean, we don`t know.
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