SANDRA CANTU, 8, missing since 3/27/09 Tracy, CA #1 3/28/09-4/09/09

[k9ohana]

errr did  you monkeys catch this too??

According to a neighbor across the street there aren't many more than 15 parishioners.  The neighbor said she went there one Sunday and people looked at her walking in like she was a ghost.  Something is up with that church.

15 search warrants served.  We don't even know about some of them.

     

Interesting

[klaasend]

http://www.news10.net/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=57551&catid=2

Submerged Body Makes Investigation Tougher
Written for the web byPosted By: Mark Hedlund, Reporter   






TRACY, CA - The heartbreaking discovery of Sandra Cantu's remains in an irrigation pond also means extra difficulty in the murder investigation, according to CSI experts.



"Time and the elements are the worst enemy for CSI," one crime scene investigation expert told News10. "You don't know how much time has passed. Time deteriorates evidence. If it's underwater, that dilutes and compromises evidence like DNA."



The 8-year-old vanished on March 27, with her body not found and recovered until 10 days later. While it's unknown how long she was alive, few child kidnapping victims survive much longer than 24 or 48 hours after being abducted, experts say.



Complicating matters in this case is the likelihood the murder happened in a different location from where the body was found inside a suitcase that had been dumped underwater. Another complication is the suitcase was apparently dumped into the pond at a different point than where it was discovered.



Sgt. Tony Sheneman with the Tracy Police Department said when workers were draining the pond in the area off Tracy Boulevard and Whitehall Road Monday morning in preparation to flood a nearby field, the suitcase floated to the surface. He said a worker moved it to the edge of the pond and then called authorities.



Detectives spent hours processing the area around the pond for any tracks or other evidence before actually removing the suitcase to the San Joaquin County Coroner's Office.



"The body itself has all the evidence. Fingerprints are oil, they will smear. If there are fingerprints it'll be difficult to find," said the expert, who declined to be named publicly. "What else might be inside that suitcase? They'll have to look for trace fibers. If it's sealed, if water hasn't gotten in, that's wonderful. If it's your standard Samsonite, nope."



Tracy police investigators haven't revealed what else might have been discovered inside the suitcase, nor have they said anything about the condition of the body. Police only said the girl was dressed in the same pink "Hello Kitty" t-shirt and black leggings she was wearing at the time she disappeared.



Whatever analysis is done will take time. Even if DNA or fingerprint evidence is recovered, analysis and running database comparisons through Department of Justice labs can take weeks. Priority analysis can still take a long time.



"It's not like 'CSI' on TV," said the expert.

Created: 4/8/2009 2:10:55 PM Updated: 4/8/2009 2:25:10 PM

[Tracygirl]

They would have to have a non profit status and would have to account for every dollar donated from the members. I believe it is public information??? I wouldn't know where to start with that one though?

[AZSunny]

I wonder what the criminal records look like for the Clover rd baptist church parishioners.
It looks like Mr. & Mrs Williams has an extensive records based on the blink on crime article.

According to a neighbor across the street there aren't many more than 15 parishioners.  The neighbor said she went there one Sunday and people looked at her walking in like she was a ghost.  Something is up with that church.

I agree, and how do they stay 'operational' with that small a congregation?  Something is Hinky....

This is a baptist church, wonder if the baptist churches all support one another financially? Or if there is some kind of main church (or whatever, I don't' know what it is called) they support it? 15 people does not a financially strong church make. Especially with a parish of people who have a criminal past.

Tracy, there is a history on their website about merging with another church in the 80's...'84?  so some 25 years ago, when this guy was named pastor.  I recall they had a disagreement over doctrine?  I would have to read it again.  How does he maintain his "pastorhood" when the church is not growing or thriving?   something is just not right.

[no rose colored glasses]

AZSunny, I read that also some disagreement over doctrine. I'm wondering if the church is really a front for something else.

[Tracygirl]

http://www.clover-road-baptist-church.com/index.htm

Here is the link again for the church. I am not particularly religious and I cannot tell you if the stuff is over the top or not. If you read the history there is a link to some new hampshire something or another.  On the page for sunday school it says about getting the lessons from a church in Salinas CA.

[no rose colored glasses]

http://www.clover-road-baptist-church.com/index.htm

Here is the link again for the church. I am not particularly religious and I cannot tell you if the stuff is over the top or not. If you read the history there is a link to some new hampshire something or another.  On the page for sunday school it says about getting the lessons from a church in Salinas CA.

Thanks

[Blink34]

Its not up yet, although the way I worded my sentance you probably had no idea what I meant.

It showed Williams again talking to the press, I have no idea what he was saying, I was in the kitchen, but I did see him at the door of the church, to me it appeared he unlocked the door  and opened it for the minister. Who is not that frail now that I saw him walking. Looked like a healthy 77 year old me.

You go Tracygirl, I look forward to seeing that. I love it when people tie their own noose.

I go back to one thing, warrant on a church, sealed, check case law, that is rarer than my son remembering to turn his socks out, and thats saying alot.

[Blink34]

AZSunny, I read that also some disagreement over doctrine. I'm wondering if the church is really a front for something else.

Rose, you are one smart monkey. I am with you on that

[Anna]

http://www.clover-road-baptist-church.com/index.htm

Here is the link again for the church. I am not particularly religious and I cannot tell you if the stuff is over the top or not. If you read the history there is a link to some new hampshire something or another.  On the page for sunday school it says about getting the lessons from a church in Salinas CA.

I was reading their Affirmation of Faith trying to determine what kind of church, denomination, this is and at the bottom of the page is a like to this site

http://teampyro.blogspot.com/

It is something about their religion but not anything I can follow as I am not familiar with this group and don't understand it very well.

In fact, I don't think I have ever seen anything quite like this.  I don't get it.

[TxLady2]

Churches can be affiliated with larger denoninational ties and be part of a large system or be totally independent.  I don't think this one is an affiliate of any large group as they would incorporate it into a larger congregation.

Usually when a church has so few members around here, yes, they are up to something and some times it is snake handling, I kid you not!

But they give themselves unusual names as well.  Not just Baptist Church but something odd, the handlers.

But there could be a connection to the church through anybody and does not have to even be a member.  Someone could have also thought the church abandoned, etc.

Or be seeking charity from the church.  I don't think we will have to wait months and years to see a conclusion to this as I think LE is looking for specific things now.

I've been a Baptist for a lot of years now.... NEVER seen a Baptist church that does snake handling... those are usually in the Holiness type churches, the ones that do the speaking in tongues, dancing, shouting, that kind of thing. Believe it or not, there are many, many branches of the Baptist religion. Only ones I've been at are Southern Baptist and Missionary Baptist. I know there are what the old-timers call Hardshell Baptists... but I've never been inside one of those, they are very strict with their beliefs... but never heard of any snake-handlers in them.

[Anna]

Go to this page

http://www.clover-road-baptist-church.com/church1.html

and click on New Hampshire Confessions of Faith.

Then at the very bottom of that page is the link to

http://teampyro.blogspot.com/

It says Pyromaniacs.  I guess it is supposed to mean they are on fire for God or something? 

I'm just a simple little Catholic girl who does as told at Church and I don't know anything about this kind of thing.  Maybe this is unique to a very small segment of the population perhaps?

[AZSunny]

http://www.clover-road-baptist-church.com/index.htm

Here is the link again for the church. I am not particularly religious and I cannot tell you if the stuff is over the top or not. If you read the history there is a link to some new hampshire something or another.  On the page for sunday school it says about getting the lessons from a church in Salinas CA.

But isn't the last sunday school lesson from like 2002 or 2003?  that is a bit of a gap.

[Anna]

Churches can be affiliated with larger denoninational ties and be part of a large system or be totally independent.  I don't think this one is an affiliate of any large group as they would incorporate it into a larger congregation.

Usually when a church has so few members around here, yes, they are up to something and some times it is snake handling, I kid you not!

But they give themselves unusual names as well.  Not just Baptist Church but something odd, the handlers.

But there could be a connection to the church through anybody and does not have to even be a member.  Someone could have also thought the church abandoned, etc.

Or be seeking charity from the church.  I don't think we will have to wait months and years to see a conclusion to this as I think LE is looking for specific things now.

I've been a Baptist for a lot of years now.... NEVER seen a Baptist church that does snake handling... those are usually in the Holiness type churches, the ones that do the speaking in tongues, dancing, shouting, that kind of thing. Believe it or not, there are many, many branches of the Baptist religion. Only ones I've been at are Southern Baptist and Missionary Baptist. I know there are what the old-timers call Hardshell Baptists... but I've never been inside one of those, they are very strict with their beliefs... but never heard of any snake-handlers in them.

I stated they did NOT call themselves Baptists.  The one that comes to my mind as somewhat notorious was The Church of God With Signs Following or something like that.  Summerfield case where the husband put the wife's hand in the snake box and let the snakes bite her.  Was big case a few years back and the woman on Oprah.

I agree that this practice seems more in what is referred to as Holiness churches but I don't know that for a fact as I don't go there and have never personally seen it.  I do know occasionally someone is bitten and an ambulance sent later.

[sleddogs]

I don't think there is anything unusual about a small church in itself as I have been a member in a few like this. In the mid 60's I went to a Baptist church in Joseph City Az that had only 5 families registered and of that only 3 were active. Granted we were in a town of 600+ and most were Mormon.

Here in Ohio we had a Methodist Church die a slow death and finally fold up a few years ago. The congregation got older with no new blood or youth joining the Church and the elders were comfortable just leaving it that way.  I could see this happening here with the pastor 77 years old and most of the congregation probably up there in years. The Church should probably should have changed to a younger Pastor to breath new life into the Church.

Our Southern Baptist Church just got through a year of turmoil when the Pastor retired. The replacement lasted less that 3 months due to conflicts with the former Pastor's family. We lost almost half the congregation and I was pretty sure the Church was not going to make it. But at the darkest moment a young Pastor from Louisiana was recruited and  got a vote of approval and now things are looking up.

Churches come and go, so I don't think much stock can be taken based on it's size.

JMHO
 

[Searching]

4/8 More on Pastor Lawless...<<<(tracypress) Several Tracy pastors said they don’t know that much about Lawless; he doesn’t join the 15 or 20 other pastors in town for Thursday prayer breakfasts.

Tim Heinrich of the Crossroads Baptist Church said Lawless declines to network with fellow pastors in town. Other pastors said the church has few events and focuses on church history because it disagrees with some of the tenets of others churches.

No one in the neighborhood surrounding Orchard Estates said they attend the Baptist church — surrounded now by yellow crime-scene tape. About a dozen neighbors said they don’t know anyone who does and that it has a tiny congregation.>>>

I would sure like to see their member list...

 http://community.compuserve.com/n/pfx/forum.aspx?tsn=&nav=messages&webtag=ws-crimeforum&tid=14549&redirCnt=1

[Anna]

Go to this page

http://www.clover-road-baptist-church.com/church1.html

and click on New Hampshire Confessions of Faith.

Then at the very bottom of that page is the link to

http://teampyro.blogspot.com/

It says Pyromaniacs.  I guess it is supposed to mean they are on fire for God or something? 

I'm just a simple little Catholic girl who does as told at Church and I don't know anything about this kind of thing.  Maybe this is unique to a very small segment of the population perhaps?

Will someone please take a look at this page and share your thoughts.  I have no idea what kind of ministry this is discussing.  Is it a site for churches that are losing their congregation maybe?  Is this the person who wrote their Declaration of Faith?

[pink angel]

Sheneman: No official report of missing luggage at either LE dept. BUT, when asked if they have discussed it in interviews he said "no comment".

Family did not want cash donations to avoid the appearance of profiting off Sandra being missing. (NOTE TO OTHERS: THIS IS HOW YOU ACT WHEN YOUR CHILD IS MISSING/MURDERED)

video of Sandra's family, her aunt confirms that they were NOT members of the pastors church...

her uncle, you can see his anger...one of the reporters had the nerve to ask them "why" they think Sandra has touched people and his response paraphrased was if you saw that video and you see her skipping carefree and then taken. direct quote "innocence taken, doesn't that touch you?"

quote of the day goes to her uncle
"let's find that bad apple and pluck em."

http://cbs13.com/video/?id=51721@cbslocal.dayport.com

[Searching]

hmmmm....   

Emergent Church Leaders Mix Constructive Criticism With Error

by David Roach

The emerging church movement has started a helpful conversation about the need for churches to be relevant to postmodern culture but commits fatal errors in the areas of evangelism and the authority of Scripture, said Chuck Lawless, dean of the Billy Graham School of Missions, Evangelism and Church Growth at The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary.


http://thoughtsactions.wordpress.com/2006/03/01/emergent-church-leaders-mix-constructive-criticism-with-error/

[pink angel]

http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Sandra%20Cantu/

AmandaReckonwith a poster from over "yonder" posted this to share all the pictures she has collected in regards to Sandra's case. It's a treasure trove of pictures.

Thank you Amanda!