SANDRA CANTU, 8, missing since 3/27/09 Tracy, CA #1 3/28/09-4/09/09

[Tracygirl]

Churches can be affiliated with larger denoninational ties and be part of a large system or be totally independent.  I don't think this one is an affiliate of any large group as they would incorporate it into a larger congregation.

Usually when a church has so few members around here, yes, they are up to something and some times it is snake handling, I kid you not!

But they give themselves unusual names as well.  Not just Baptist Church but something odd, the handlers.

But there could be a connection to the church through anybody and does not have to even be a member.  Someone could have also thought the church abandoned, etc.

Or be seeking charity from the church.  I don't think we will have to wait months and years to see a conclusion to this as I think LE is looking for specific things now.

I've been a Baptist for a lot of years now.... NEVER seen a Baptist church that does snake handling... those are usually in the Holiness type churches, the ones that do the speaking in tongues, dancing, shouting, that kind of thing. Believe it or not, there are many, many branches of the Baptist religion. Only ones I've been at are Southern Baptist and Missionary Baptist. I know there are what the old-timers call Hardshell Baptists... but I've never been inside one of those, they are very strict with their beliefs... but never heard of any snake-handlers in them.

Snake handlers? Seriously? what do they do with snakes? doesn't that slayter guy own a reptile business?

[Anna]

Tracygirl,

That was just an example of something a very closed church might be doing and I think it is fairly regional in the Appalachians.  I don't think it applies in the instance of this church.

[Blink34]

My dear searching, I didn't know-
My deepest condolences.
B

[pink angel]

Family plans public memorial service
by Eric Firpo / TP staff


The family of Sandra Cantu plans a public memorial service once the coroner is finished with the autopsy on the slain 8-year-old.

“We felt that the Tracy community has been so loving to us and shown their love for Sandra that we need to allow them to mourn as well,” Angie Chavez, Sandra’s aunt, said today.

Chavez, 41, said the family will have a private funeral as well as a public service, possibly in a large venue, given the likelihood that it will draw a huge crowd.

An as-yet unending stream of thousands of well-wishers have made a sort of pilgrimage to drop off flowers, pictures, stuffed animals and other mementos at a ballooning memorial outside the gates of the Orchard Estates Mobile Home Park on West Clover Road where Sandra lived.

Police announced Monday night that Sandra’s body was inside a suitcase retrieved earlier that day after an irrigation pond was drained on a north Tracy dairy. Sandra had been reported missing on March 27.

A police chaplain went to the mobile home of Sandra’s grandfather, Jose Chavez, 67, and her mother, Maria Chavez, to deliver the news Monday evening.

“Maria was already sitting down,” Angie Chavez said. “There was a lot of screaming. A lot of emotions. A lot of crying. Just horrible.”

Joe Chavez, Sandra's uncle, said the death was "ridiculous, absurd and grotesque."

"It's complete innocence taken for absolutely no reason," he said. "When that word came in, I heard screams that I'd never heard come out of human beings before."

For Jose Chavez, he said it sounded like, "Primal screams of love and fear like the worst horror movie you could ever watch.”

"There's a monster out there,” he added.

Sandra's cause of death has not been revealed. An autopsy has been completed, but results were pending, said Les Garcia, a spokesman for the San Joaquin County coroner's office.

Since that day, the family has grieved by itself — until today, when they ventured out to briefly talk to the press and get a glimpse of the shrine that has sprung up in memory of Sandra.

Chavez said she brought in some crosses, a few rosaries and a copy of The Lord’s Prayer.

The family plans to donate the stuffed animals to children’s hospitals and the police or fire departments “so kids in trauma have something to hang onto.”

She said the family’s swings of emotion range from “being numb to being crying, to being angry, to actually being happy remembering the times with her, but then being sad, knowing we won’t have her anymore.”

Police continue the search for clues as they hunt for Sandra’s killer, or killers. They served two more search warrants in the mobile home park Tuesday, and crime-scene investigators identified possible evidence at the Clover Road Baptist Church, just a few hundred yards from the mobile home park’s gates.

The pastor of the church and his wife’s mobile home were searched, where they took a computer and other items, Connie Lawless, wife of pastor Lane Lawless, told reporters this week.

Three others have had their mobile homes searched, — Frank Wolher, 60; Christian Sinclair, 49; and David Slayter, 44.

Police have named no suspects or “persons of interest.”

But the possibility that Sandra’s killer might live in the park is “a horrible thought,” Chavez said.

One of Sandra’s relatives who asked not to be identified said the family wants the death penalty for whoever is convicted of killing her.

Despite the anguish of Sandra’s death, the aunt said she and the Chavez family have been buttressed by the outpouring of support for them.

“It’s been incredible,” she said. “Words can’t describe how grateful and thankful we are. It’s been overwhelming. When you think you’re alone, you realize you’re not.”

The Associated Press contributed to this report.

• Reach City Editor Eric Firpo at 830-4223 or efirpo@tracypress.com

http://tracypress.com/pages/full_story?article-Family%20plans%20public%20memorial%20service%20%20%20=&page_label=home&id=2277094-Family+plans+public+memorial+service++&widget=push&instance=home_news_lead_story&open=&

[Tracygirl]

Tracygirl,

That was just an example of something a very closed church might be doing and I think it is fairly regional in the Appalachians.  I don't think it applies in the instance of this church.

Oh thank you...whew!

Does anyone know how you can view a churches non profit 501 3c? And, can you view a list of donars for a particular church? I believe it is public knowledge.

[klaasend]

Go to this page

http://www.clover-road-baptist-church.com/church1.html

and click on New Hampshire Confessions of Faith.

Then at the very bottom of that page is the link to

http://teampyro.blogspot.com/

It says Pyromaniacs.  I guess it is supposed to mean they are on fire for God or something? 

I'm just a simple little Catholic girl who does as told at Church and I don't know anything about this kind of thing.  Maybe this is unique to a very small segment of the population perhaps?

Will someone please take a look at this page and share your thoughts.  I have no idea what kind of ministry this is discussing.  Is it a site for churches that are losing their congregation maybe?  Is this the person who wrote their Declaration of Faith?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyromania

Pyromania, a type of mania, is an impulse to deliberately start fires to relieve tension and typically includes feelings of gratification or relief afterward. Pyromania is distinct from arson, and pyromaniacs are also distinct from those who start fires because of psychosis, for personal, monetary or political gain, or for acts of revenge. Pyromaniacs start fires to induce euphoria, and often tend to fixate on institutions of fire control like fire stations and firefighters.

Boths sites belong to:  Phil Johnson


http://teampyro.blogspot.com/

http://www.spurgeon.org/~phil/bio.htm

[Anna]

Prayers for this suffering family tonight and for all who are suffering.

Tomorrow is sure to bring even further information.

Goodnight, all.

[AZSunny]

Go to this page

http://www.clover-road-baptist-church.com/church1.html

and click on New Hampshire Confessions of Faith.

Then at the very bottom of that page is the link to

http://teampyro.blogspot.com/

It says Pyromaniacs.  I guess it is supposed to mean they are on fire for God or something? 

I'm just a simple little Catholic girl who does as told at Church and I don't know anything about this kind of thing.  Maybe this is unique to a very small segment of the population perhaps?

Will someone please take a look at this page and share your thoughts.  I have no idea what kind of ministry this is discussing.  Is it a site for churches that are losing their congregation maybe?  Is this the person who wrote their Declaration of Faith?

Anna, I read most of it, and I am in a fog bank.  No idea what they are talking about.

[MuffyBee]

Good night Anna.

[oldiebutgoodie]

If this has already been posted, my apologies...

Some criticize Calif. police in missing girl case

TRACY, Calif. – Police called the disappearance of 8-year-old Sandra Cantu a missing persons case, not an abduction, for 10 days — until some farm workers drained an irrigation pond and found her body stuffed in a suitcase. Some residents and a law-enforcement expert say authorities in Tracy should have publicly expressed more urgency about the case and warned of the danger that could be lurking in their Northern California community.

But police say that despite their initial uncertainty about Sandra's fate, they did everything they could, scouring the area, calling in reinforcements and exploring theories from dealing with a runaway to looking for a kidnapper.

"Until we had an indication that Sandra had been killed, we were treating this as a missing persons case," said Tracy police spokesman Sgt. Tony Sheneman.

"We had no indication of an abduction," he said. "We wanted to be as careful as possible."

Sandra's body was found Monday a few miles from her home. Police have interviewed hundreds of people and served more than 15 search warrants, including one at a local church, but say they have no suspects so far.

An autopsy on the girl has been completed, but results will not be available for several weeks, a coroner's spokesman said Wednesday. Officials declined to discuss any preliminary findings.

Hundreds of volunteers and police searched for the girl and pictures of her smiling face were posted all over town, but some wonder if a different approach by police might have made a difference. Three days after she was last seen, Sheneman had expressed confidence that she was "alive and well."

"If it would have been my daughter, I would've wanted everyone watching, everyone to be suspicious," said Ana Morales, 24, a mother of two who on Wednesday visited a sprawling makeshift memorial for Sandra outside the mobile home park where she lived.

"We always had the sense that she was going to be OK," she said. "(Police) statements were a little misleading — their statements led us to believe they knew something about how she was doing."

Her brother, Luis Morales, 27, chalked it up to inexperience: "This usually happens in large cities, not in small towns like this."

Sheneman acknowledged that "we've never handled a missing persons case such as this." But officials say city police quickly asked for help, calling in the San Joaquin Sheriff's Department, other neighboring law enforcement and the FBI.

Hours after Sandra's family reported her missing the evening of March 27, the city opened its emergency operations center, normally reserved for earthquakes and fires, according to city spokesman Matt Robinson.

Police say they never issued an Amber Alert because they had no information on a suspect or mode of transportation connected to an abduction, which is normally required for the alert.

Joseph Pollini, deputy chair of the law and police science department at the John Jay College of Criminal Justice in New York, said he disagreed with that decision.

"Even if it's just some nuance of information, we still want to get that out there," said Pollini, who headed the kidnapping and cold-case homicide units during his 33 years with the New York Police Department.

With time a crucial factor in recovering an abducted child, publicizing a physical description of Sandra as broadly and quickly as possible would have made sense, Pollini said.

"It's not like it's going to cost a lot of money to put the transmission over the air," he said. "You're still dealing with a life."

Ernie Allen, president of the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children, defended Tracy police's handling of the search for the missing girl and said they made the right call in not issuing the Amber Alert. Broadcasting an alert with only a physical description is not an appropriate use of the system, he said.

"The response of the Tracy police in this case was swift and serious. It's hard to imagine what else they could have done," said Allen, whose organization's hotline received hundreds of tips regarding Sandra's disappearance.

Joined by some of Sandra's relatives outside the mobile home complex, the girl's uncle Joe Chavez told reporters Wednesday that he wanted to see whoever was responsible get the death penalty.

"It's complete innocence taken for absolutely no reason," Chavez said.

"When that word came in (the girl's body was found), I heard screams that I'd never heard come out of human beings before," he said. "Primal screams of love and fear like the worst horror movie you could ever watch."

Pollini, who is not involved in the investigation, said based on what has been publicly disclosed, it appears Sandra's killer fits a "disorganized" profile — someone lacking in intelligence who would commit a crime close to home and dump the victim's body nearby.

Police would be searching for footprints, tire prints and broken vegetation leading to and from the pond, he said. They would also examine suspects for traces of mud or dirt from the scene.

"As long as you have the resources, tenacity and the time, every case is solvable," he said.

Robinson, the city spokesman, said he understood public frustration over the lack of answers but urged patience.

"This is a town in which we protect our own. We had an unsuccessful ending with Sandra, and that's going to eat at people," he said. "Now the next step is letting police do their jobs."

LINK

[Tracygirl]

Pyro site? Strange, had no idea what the heck they were talking about, but I think I am assumed going to he%#

I think it is fair to say this church has taken on a fanatical thinking?

[cartfly]

This happened in my state:

U.S. & World
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FOXNEWS.COM HOME > WORLD > NATIONAL
LA. TOWN STUNNED BY CHURCH 'CHILD SEX RING'
Friday, June 10, 2005


PONCHATOULA, La. —  From his tire store next door, Donald Moore got an up-close look at the strange changes that went on at the once-bustling Hosanna Church (search).
For one thing, the congregation had dwindled to a handful of reclusive members who chased away visitors. For another, the windows were painted white so no one could see in. And just before it closed its doors for good a couple of years ago, eight dump trucks came in and spread dirt over the church's back lot.
Last month, the suspicions played out in a way that almost no one in this southeastern Louisiana town of 5,000 could have imagined: Nine people, including the pastor, his wife and a sheriff's deputy were accused of engaging in cult-like sexual activity with children and animals inside the hall of worship. Eight now face child rape charges that could bring the death penalty.
"You can't believe something like that was going on right under our own feet," Moore said.
Authorities said witnesses have described the use of robes, pentagrams on the church floor, sex with a dog and the sacrifice of cats. The alleged victims, suspected to number up to two dozen, include children ranging from infants to young teens — some of them the offspring of those accused.
RELATED
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Cops Probe Child, Animal Sex Abuse at La. Satanic Church
"I've been a prosecutor in some rape cases and child molestation cases, but I've never had a group accused of doing anything like this," said Tangipahoa Parish (search) Sheriff Daniel Edwards, a former state prosecutor.
Investigators believe the abuse began in 1999 and continued until the church closed in 2003. But it was not until a woman called from Ohio in April, saying she had fled to protect her child, that police claim they had even an inkling of what was happening.
About the same time, the church's pastor, 45-year-old Louis Lamonica (search), walked into the neighboring Livingston Parish sheriff's office, sat down and, according to investigators, named names and detailed activities inside the church.
Lamonica was arrested, followed by eight others authorities described as central members of the ring. All but one are being held without bond. Even the tipster from Ohio, Nicole Bernard (search), was arrested on rape charges along with her ex-husband.
Edwards said the group apparently had an effective formula for escaping detection: the use of a church, a close-knit relationship between the members and victims unlikely to report abuse to authorities.
"They were very secretive and very good about keeping a secret," Edwards said.
Lamonica's attorney, Michael Thiel, did not return calls from The Associated Press but had said previously that the charges had been sensationalized and would not hold up in court.
"Generally, I believe there's been a rush to judge based on conjecture, rumors and leaks to the media," Thiel told The Advocate of Baton Rouge.
Edwards stopped short of saying the cult consisted of devil-worshippers but said some of the defendants told investigators that "devil worship was the reason for their participation." Edwards added that defendants and witnesses also gave statements saying a dog was sexually abused and at least two cats were sacrificed.
Authorities seized two dozen computers, which the FBI is checking. Sheets and carpeting were taken from the church for DNA tests. Officers spent several days digging in the back of the church, but haven't said if anything significant was found.
After Bernard was arrested, police in Ohio said they searched a storage unit and found mattresses, videos and nine garbage bags full of costumes.
Lamonica and his wife, Robbin, also face allegations of having sex with children in their home.
A state grand jury is scheduled to start hearing evidence June 24.
U.S. Attorney Jim Letten of New Orleans would say only that federal authorities are aiding the state investigation. He refused to say what federal charges, if any, might be filed.
At one time, Hosanna Church was one of the many thriving churches, of all denominations, in and around Ponchatoula, a town of antique shops that is the host of Louisiana's annual strawberry festival.
Founded by Lamonica's now-deceased father, Hosanna once boasted of 1,000 members and had a private school through the sixth grade. Moore sent his son to the church's preschool during the 1990s.
Now, a message on the church's highway sign says: "I went here K-4. You let us down."
Glynn Fendlason served as pastor of the church, then known as First Assembly of God, from 1982 to 1989, following the elder Lamonica's death. The active membership dispensed thousands of meals to the poor and elderly.
Fendlason said the younger Lamonica, while his father was pastor, was a "good fellow" who played bass guitar, taught Sunday school and worked with youth groups. Some of the other defendants also were active in the church.
After Fendlason resigned as pastor, he said he stayed out of the church's business for fear of disrupting the congregation, but heard that Lamonica, who became pastor in 1994, excommunicated many members, including members of his own family, and increasingly made the church more isolated.
"We all knew something wasn't right," Fendlason said. "Not something like this, though."
One of those taken into custody was Christopher Labat, a deputy who is now jailed on aggravated rape and malfeasance charges.
Bruce Dapprich, a former sheriff's deputy who patrolled with Labat, said the arrested ex-deputy had been a volunteer firefighter, an emergency medical technician and a reserve deputy before being hired full time by the sheriff's office.
"He seemed real Christian," Dapprich said. "He never cursed. When we went out to eat, he'd bow his head and say his prayers."
No matter what turns out in court, Fendlason said he believes "there will be another day" for the now-empty church building.
"I believe in the redemptive power of the Lord to make a positive of that situation," he said. "I don't believe the devil will obtain a victory."
 

[klaasend]

Go to this page

http://www.clover-road-baptist-church.com/church1.html

and click on New Hampshire Confessions of Faith.

Then at the very bottom of that page is the link to

http://teampyro.blogspot.com/

It says Pyromaniacs.  I guess it is supposed to mean they are on fire for God or something? 

I'm just a simple little Catholic girl who does as told at Church and I don't know anything about this kind of thing.  Maybe this is unique to a very small segment of the population perhaps?

Will someone please take a look at this page and share your thoughts.  I have no idea what kind of ministry this is discussing.  Is it a site for churches that are losing their congregation maybe?  Is this the person who wrote their Declaration of Faith?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyromania

Pyromania, a type of mania, is an impulse to deliberately start fires to relieve tension and typically includes feelings of gratification or relief afterward. Pyromania is distinct from arson, and pyromaniacs are also distinct from those who start fires because of psychosis, for personal, monetary or political gain, or for acts of revenge. Pyromaniacs start fires to induce euphoria, and often tend to fixate on institutions of fire control like fire stations and firefighters.

Boths sites belong to:  Phil Johnson


http://teampyro.blogspot.com/

http://www.spurgeon.org/~phil/bio.htm

This explains the Pyro stuff aka F.I.R.E

http://www.firefellowship.org/download/constitution.pdf

Fellowship of Independent Reformed Evangelicals
Expressing Unity, Liberty, and Charity


What is FIRE?
F I R E is a unifying network for independent Reformed (and Reforming) baptistic churches to experience mutual edification, fellowship, cooperation and prayerful support in ministries and missions.

[Edward]

errr did  you monkeys catch this too??

According to a neighbor across the street there aren't many more than 15 parishioners.  The neighbor said she went there one Sunday and people looked at her walking in like she was a ghost.  Something is up with that church.

15 search warrants served.  We don't even know about some of them.

     

 

[Anna]

Go to this page

http://www.clover-road-baptist-church.com/church1.html

and click on New Hampshire Confessions of Faith.

Then at the very bottom of that page is the link to

http://teampyro.blogspot.com/

It says Pyromaniacs.  I guess it is supposed to mean they are on fire for God or something? 

I'm just a simple little Catholic girl who does as told at Church and I don't know anything about this kind of thing.  Maybe this is unique to a very small segment of the population perhaps?

Will someone please take a look at this page and share your thoughts.  I have no idea what kind of ministry this is discussing.  Is it a site for churches that are losing their congregation maybe?  Is this the person who wrote their Declaration of Faith?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyromania

Pyromania, a type of mania, is an impulse to deliberately start fires to relieve tension and typically includes feelings of gratification or relief afterward. Pyromania is distinct from arson, and pyromaniacs are also distinct from those who start fires because of psychosis, for personal, monetary or political gain, or for acts of revenge. Pyromaniacs start fires to induce euphoria, and often tend to fixate on institutions of fire control like fire stations and firefighters.

Boths sites belong to:  Phil Johnson


http://teampyro.blogspot.com/

http://www.spurgeon.org/~phil/bio.htm

This explains the Pyro stuff aka F.I.R.E

http://www.firefellowship.org/download/constitution.pdf

Fellowship of Independent Reformed Evangelicals
Expressing Unity, Liberty, and Charity


What is FIRE?
F I R E is a unifying network for independent Reformed (and Reforming) baptistic churches to experience mutual edification, fellowship, cooperation and prayerful support in ministries and missions.

Thank you, Klaas.

While their motives may be quite good, that is definitely an unfortunate
analogy and acronym.  Surely the could have named it something less threatening.

Well, to each his own I guess.

Goodnite again!

[Searching]

My dear searching, I didn't know-
My deepest condolences.
B

Thank you Blink. My prayer for mercy on dad must have been heard. It hurts but his suffering is over.

[Tracygirl]

Cartfly that story is chilling? What is wrong with some people??? How could any of that happen in the name of religion?

[Searching]

If this has already been posted, my apologies...

Some criticize Calif. police in missing girl case

TRACY, Calif. – Police called the disappearance of 8-year-old Sandra Cantu a missing persons case, not an abduction, for 10 days — until some farm workers drained an irrigation pond and found her body stuffed in a suitcase. Some residents and a law-enforcement expert say authorities in Tracy should have publicly expressed more urgency about the case and warned of the danger that could be lurking in their Northern California community.

But police say that despite their initial uncertainty about Sandra's fate, they did everything they could, scouring the area, calling in reinforcements and exploring theories from dealing with a runaway to looking for a kidnapper.

"Until we had an indication that Sandra had been killed, we were treating this as a missing persons case," said Tracy police spokesman Sgt. Tony Sheneman.

"We had no indication of an abduction," he said. "We wanted to be as careful as possible."

Sandra's body was found Monday a few miles from her home. Police have interviewed hundreds of people and served more than 15 search warrants, including one at a local church, but say they have no suspects so far.

An autopsy on the girl has been completed, but results will not be available for several weeks, a coroner's spokesman said Wednesday. Officials declined to discuss any preliminary findings.

Hundreds of volunteers and police searched for the girl and pictures of her smiling face were posted all over town, but some wonder if a different approach by police might have made a difference. Three days after she was last seen, Sheneman had expressed confidence that she was "alive and well."

"If it would have been my daughter, I would've wanted everyone watching, everyone to be suspicious," said Ana Morales, 24, a mother of two who on Wednesday visited a sprawling makeshift memorial for Sandra outside the mobile home park where she lived.

"We always had the sense that she was going to be OK," she said. "(Police) statements were a little misleading — their statements led us to believe they knew something about how she was doing."

Her brother, Luis Morales, 27, chalked it up to inexperience: "This usually happens in large cities, not in small towns like this."

Sheneman acknowledged that "we've never handled a missing persons case such as this." But officials say city police quickly asked for help, calling in the San Joaquin Sheriff's Department, other neighboring law enforcement and the FBI.

Hours after Sandra's family reported her missing the evening of March 27, the city opened its emergency operations center, normally reserved for earthquakes and fires, according to city spokesman Matt Robinson.

Police say they never issued an Amber Alert because they had no information on a suspect or mode of transportation connected to an abduction, which is normally required for the alert.

Joseph Pollini, deputy chair of the law and police science department at the John Jay College of Criminal Justice in New York, said he disagreed with that decision.

"Even if it's just some nuance of information, we still want to get that out there," said Pollini, who headed the kidnapping and cold-case homicide units during his 33 years with the New York Police Department.

With time a crucial factor in recovering an abducted child, publicizing a physical description of Sandra as broadly and quickly as possible would have made sense, Pollini said.

"It's not like it's going to cost a lot of money to put the transmission over the air," he said. "You're still dealing with a life."

Ernie Allen, president of the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children, defended Tracy police's handling of the search for the missing girl and said they made the right call in not issuing the Amber Alert. Broadcasting an alert with only a physical description is not an appropriate use of the system, he said.

"The response of the Tracy police in this case was swift and serious. It's hard to imagine what else they could have done," said Allen, whose organization's hotline received hundreds of tips regarding Sandra's disappearance.

Joined by some of Sandra's relatives outside the mobile home complex, the girl's uncle Joe Chavez told reporters Wednesday that he wanted to see whoever was responsible get the death penalty.

"It's complete innocence taken for absolutely no reason," Chavez said.

"When that word came in (the girl's body was found), I heard screams that I'd never heard come out of human beings before," he said. "Primal screams of love and fear like the worst horror movie you could ever watch."

Pollini, who is not involved in the investigation, said based on what has been publicly disclosed, it appears Sandra's killer fits a "disorganized" profile — someone lacking in intelligence who would commit a crime close to home and dump the victim's body nearby.

Police would be searching for footprints, tire prints and broken vegetation leading to and from the pond, he said. They would also examine suspects for traces of mud or dirt from the scene.

"As long as you have the resources, tenacity and the time, every case is solvable," he said.

Robinson, the city spokesman, said he understood public frustration over the lack of answers but urged patience.

"This is a town in which we protect our own. We had an unsuccessful ending with Sandra, and that's going to eat at people," he said. "Now the next step is letting police do their jobs."

LINK

and I wonder when they had an indication she had been killed??

[Tracygirl]

My dear searching, I didn't know-
My deepest condolences.
B

Thank you Blink. My prayer for mercy on dad must have been heard. It hurts but his suffering is over.

Searching I can only assume you lost your father recently. Please accept my condolences as well. Our parents never really leave us. Once a parent, always a parent, it never ends. They are always there to guide us...

[spring2]

One question I have.  Especially if she was killed at the church.

If they had brought the dogs in that evening, would the dogs have taken them to the church?  She may have still been alive at that point