Natalee Case Discussion #813 3/31/09 - 4/5/09

[Blue Moon]

I have that other photo to compare and will do that in a minute.

FYI - looks like Goldmonkey is having server issues, LOL 

No sense starting trouble I will simply say that the person in the photo wearing the white shirt does not appear to be Capslock 

Is Caps in the picture (just not in the white shirt)?

[Anna]

BlueMoon, I don't think so.  Just a resemblance that TxMom and I thought we saw.  So many in Aruba are related and resemble each other, it is easy to be fooled from just photos.

[Mere]

OT...Blue Moon...bad weather seems to be coming....!  Be safe....

[Blue Moon]

OT...Blue Moon...bad weather seems to be coming....!  Be safe....

It hit in Murfreesboro, TN (just south here about 40 miles).  It is pouring rain and LIGHTNING really bad here.  I get so sick of this weather.  Last weekend they got a picture on TV of a tornado a mile from my home. It did not touch down but was riding across the sky. I don't have a basement and my little closet in the center of the home is so small we all 3 cannot hardly fit in it.

[Blue Moon]

OT...Blue Moon...bad weather seems to be coming....!  Be safe....

It hit in Murfreesboro, TN (just south here about 40 miles).  It is pouring rain and LIGHTNING really bad here.  I get so sick of this weather.  Last weekend they got a picture on TV of a tornado a mile from my home. It did not touch down but was riding across the sky. I don't have a basement and my little closet in the center of the home is so small we all 3 cannot hardly fit in it.

Oh, we are under a tornado watch until 8PM tonight.  Fun, Fun.

[Mere]

OT...Blue Moon...bad weather seems to be coming....!  Be safe....

It hit in Murfreesboro, TN (just south here about 40 miles).  It is pouring rain and LIGHTNING really bad here.  I get so sick of this weather.  Last weekend they got a picture on TV of a tornado a mile from my home. It did not touch down but was riding across the sky. I don't have a basement and my little closet in the center of the home is so small we all 3 cannot hardly fit in it.

Oh, we are under a tornado watch until 8PM tonight.  Fun, Fun.

Thanks for the report...tornado watch til 12 am....see you all later....Mere

[Nut44x4]

I plan to spend more time comparing tonight, the man in the white...and the one in the yellow shirt.

IMO 99.9% sure....not the same person (If that is what you meant that you would be comparing) ??

[texasmom]

http://www.amigoe.com/artman/publish/artikel_54760.php

Google translation:

Government would support Valero
2 Apr, 2009, 14:53 (GMT -04:00)

  Email this article
  Print this article
 
ORANGE CITY - "There is no new tax holiday for Valero, but we must see what we can do to help the ailing company to support." Prime Minister Nelson Oduber (MEP) yesterday expressed his concerns in parliament in response to persistent rumors that the refinery personnel would be exempt.

According to Valero spokesman Mariaine Arends-Croes is not the case. "There are no short term plans to lay off people." But she confirms that the oil is reduced. Currently, the refinery would produce 180,000 barrels, almost 100,000 barrels less than the maximum capacity. The reduction, according to the spokesman nothing to do with reducing demand, but with the current inventory. "Based on the price of crude oil has been decided in the month of April a reduction of production to make this reduction we brought." Last week Friday, the production decreased. There is Arends-Croes still no decision on production in the coming months.

Public
The Prime Minister indicated satisfaction with the fact that Valero "despite" still keeps its staff. "But this can not continue forever," said Oduber. "We must accommodate Valero." It was yesterday in the parliament is not clear how the Government intends to support the refinery. Oduber is not in favor of a new tax, but according to him there are many other possibilities. "If the Dutch government the ABN Amro bank can take over and suddenly thousands of workers are de facto officers, then we can also do something", the Prime Minister.

Sales
The sale of the refinery seems no closer to coming. Last week it became known that the Brazilian oil company Petrobras is no longer interested in buying the Valero refinery in San Nicolas. Arends-Croes spokesman also could not report except that the sale is still playing. " Meanwhile, the company through investment.

Valero has more than 90 million dollars invested in the construction of a new power for the refinery. This third power is expected to end up this year, said the spokesman. Recently, with great transport the new generator for this plant to the refinery transported.

[texasmom]

I plan to spend more time comparing tonight, the man in the white...and the one in the yellow shirt.

IMO 99.9% sure....not the same person (If that is what you meant that you would be comparing) ??

Thanks Nut!   

I had planned to compare them to another picture of course...not each other.   

When I read my post from earlier I thought it kinda sounded that way.   

[Tamikosmom]

OT...Blue Moon...bad weather seems to be coming....!  Be safe....

It hit in Murfreesboro, TN (just south here about 40 miles).  It is pouring rain and LIGHTNING really bad here.  I get so sick of this weather.  Last weekend they got a picture on TV of a tornado a mile from my home. It did not touch down but was riding across the sky. I don't have a basement and my little closet in the center of the home is so small we all 3 cannot hardly fit in it.

Oh, we are under a tornado watch until 8PM tonight.  Fun, Fun.

 

Blue Moon ... does your community have an evacution plan ... a place those without basements can flee to until the storm has passed?

Take care.

Janet

[texasmom]

http://www.amigoe.com/artman/publish/artikel_54761.php

Google translation:

Aruba
Oduber unclear about campaign finance law
2 Apr, 2009, 14:52 (GMT -04:00)




ORANGE CITY - The first round of questions about the budget of Prime Minister Nelson Oduber was wearing an ideological battle between the groups of MEP and AVP. Yesterday afternoon for three hours starting the first speeches of the parliamentarians present on both sides and only around midnight, the prime minister finished his answers.

by Arien Rasmijn

They were especially large and long running feuds between the two major parties that determined the agenda of this first part of the budget debate that took place yesterday.
The atmosphere was relaxed, with gusts even with a little cry of wanton accusations and jokes back and forth. The ASF Group, the informal crowbars Sevinger Benny and Otmar Oduber by vomiting, sometimes with hilarious effect, the speeches of their opponents. On the other hand, Maduro said Robert, Junior Arends and Seferino Bislik hardest. Also key protocol Eric Bret did occasionally from the balcony a farthing in the bag: "If you like the Netherlands to go live there. Since men can marry men. "

In their speeches were AVP-fractieleden stress issues such as nepotism, mismanagement and ghost projects. The MEP parliamentarians in turn pointed to the scandals of their predecessors and knocked on the chest for the successes of their government. Premier Oduber, from start to finish available at certain times could hardly contain not immediately respond. Occasionally, he ran around and had a party with members of the opposition to direct the man to explain his grievances. There were tête-à-Têtes Arthur Dower, Mike Eman and Otmar Oduber. In the speech of MEP MEP Marlon Werleman feelings ran high. By Ady Thijssen which ran throughout the AVP group demonstration of the room. When AVP leader Eman final speech after more than six hours, sitting there fat in the fatigue on both sides. But when was the Prime Minister still. Nelson Oduber, unlike everyone in the room still quite fresh, was his speech in rap tempo. He returned to the normal grip handles, but also current issues such as Cayco and the future of Valero (see front page: Government wants to support Valero) passed in review.

Campagnefinaciering
RED-party Rudy Lampe came today with the question whether there is still shot in making a bill for regulating the financing of election campaigns. This motion of his hand was already in 2006 and was unanimously approved before the 2009 elections law be implemented. From Justice Minister Rudy Croes was yesterday Lampe replied that it still would be with new adjustments to the bill, with the promise that it will surely come. Prime Minister Oduber Lampe was last night only to hear that he would have no problem with the advent of the law. The budget debate after the speech Oduber suspended until half past eleven 's this morning.

[Blue Moon]

OT...Blue Moon...bad weather seems to be coming....!  Be safe....

It hit in Murfreesboro, TN (just south here about 40 miles).  It is pouring rain and LIGHTNING really bad here.  I get so sick of this weather.  Last weekend they got a picture on TV of a tornado a mile from my home. It did not touch down but was riding across the sky. I don't have a basement and my little closet in the center of the home is so small we all 3 cannot hardly fit in it.

No evacuation plan, every man for themselves.  I can handle the weather during the daytime it is the nighttime that really bothers me.  Afraid of what I cannot see.

Oh, we are under a tornado watch until 8PM tonight.  Fun, Fun.

 

Blue Moon ... does your community have an evacution plan ... a place those without basements can flee to until the storm has passed?

Take care.

Janet

[Ree]

OT...Blue Moon...bad weather seems to be coming....!  Be safe....

It hit in Murfreesboro, TN (just south here about 40 miles).  It is pouring rain and LIGHTNING really bad here.  I get so sick of this weather.  Last weekend they got a picture on TV of a tornado a mile from my home. It did not touch down but was riding across the sky. I don't have a basement and my little closet in the center of the home is so small we all 3 cannot hardly fit in it.

Oh, we are under a tornado watch until 8PM tonight.  Fun, Fun.

 

Blue Moon ... does your community have an evacution plan ... a place those without basements can flee to until the storm has passed?

Take care.

Janet

Janet,

LOL.  In this area of the country, we'd have to live in a shelter April and most of May.  Blue Moon, don't forget in an emergency you canget in the tub and put a mattress over yourself.

[Anna]

We are under tornado watch until 2 a.m.  BlueMoon, I agree.  Would much rather have this in daytime so we could at least see.  If the electricity goes out, it will be pitch black and we will lose contact with weather except for weather radios, etc. from batteries.

Ah, it's Springtime in the South! 

[Anna]

http://www.amigoe.com/artman/publish/artikel_54761.php

Google translation:

Aruba
Oduber unclear about campaign finance law
2 Apr, 2009, 14:52 (GMT -04:00)




ORANGE CITY - The first round of questions about the budget of Prime Minister Nelson Oduber was wearing an ideological battle between the groups of MEP and AVP. Yesterday afternoon for three hours starting the first speeches of the parliamentarians present on both sides and only around midnight, the prime minister finished his answers.

by Arien Rasmijn

They were especially large and long running feuds between the two major parties that determined the agenda of this first part of the budget debate that took place yesterday.
The atmosphere was relaxed, with gusts even with a little cry of wanton accusations and jokes back and forth. The ASF Group, the informal crowbars Sevinger Benny and Otmar Oduber by vomiting, sometimes with hilarious effect, the speeches of their opponents. On the other hand, Maduro said Robert, Junior Arends and Seferino Bislik hardest. Also key protocol Eric Bret did occasionally from the balcony a farthing in the bag: "If you like the Netherlands to go live there. Since men can marry men. "

In their speeches were AVP-fractieleden stress issues such as nepotism, mismanagement and ghost projects. The MEP parliamentarians in turn pointed to the scandals of their predecessors and knocked on the chest for the successes of their government. Premier Oduber, from start to finish available at certain times could hardly contain not immediately respond. Occasionally, he ran around and had a party with members of the opposition to direct the man to explain his grievances. There were tête-à-Têtes Arthur Dower, Mike Eman and Otmar Oduber. In the speech of MEP MEP Marlon Werleman feelings ran high. By Ady Thijssen which ran throughout the AVP group demonstration of the room. When AVP leader Eman final speech after more than six hours, sitting there fat in the fatigue on both sides. But when was the Prime Minister still. Nelson Oduber, unlike everyone in the room still quite fresh, was his speech in rap tempo. He returned to the normal grip handles, but also current issues such as Cayco and the future of Valero (see front page: Government wants to support Valero) passed in review.

Campagnefinaciering
RED-party Rudy Lampe came today with the question whether there is still shot in making a bill for regulating the financing of election campaigns. This motion of his hand was already in 2006 and was unanimously approved before the 2009 elections law be implemented. From Justice Minister Rudy Croes was yesterday Lampe replied that it still would be with new adjustments to the bill, with the promise that it will surely come. Prime Minister Oduber Lampe was last night only to hear that he would have no problem with the advent of the law. The budget debate after the speech Oduber suspended until half past eleven 's this morning.

I guess politicians are crazy everywhere.

[texasmom]

Stay safe all monkeys in the line of storms!  

[San]

What do you think they did....sit around and play cards one night and decide they would play some cruel jokes on the Americans...?  And CLW had the most time on his hands....so he was chosen?

When you read back you see how accomodating SM was to him....even with the story changes and the craziness.  I could choke on some of the tales that were bought hook, line and sinker.

I am so sorry that Dave and Beth have had to listen to this one and so many more. 

I personally do not care one wit what Aruba does with it's own murder investigations....but I care a lot about what they did with this one.  

And I agree....the guy at the table needs to stop drinking that beer and take a big glass of pond water instead....!

I agree Mere.

[Tamikosmom]

Prodical Monkeys

Would you disregard Kyle Kingman's own words ... when his field of expertice is taken into consideration ... if there was a possibility the remains of your loved one had been in that cage.

Janet

+++++++

A REMINDER

The fabric - The Tarp - The vertebrae - The Skull

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman:  I took the proportions of the body form from the head, to shoulder, to a 90 degree angle which I believed to be the hem line of Natalee's skirt. I then took those proportions and matched them to the photo of Natalee with what she was last seen wearing. The proportions matched within an inch from head, to shoulder, to skirt line. Based on this comparison and with what we believed we saw in the Dec 29th video, Tim Miller contacted the family and told them the 99.9% comment. I told Tim not to do anything until we have forensic results back after the site is processed. Jan 7th we sampled the contents and in my opinion we found the skirt under the sand along with the other items The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured. If it isn't her, it will forever haunt me as a major cosmic WTF.
 
Kyle Kingman:  This is how the Dateline episode happened:
Dateline (Tim Uelinger) had an agreement with Tim Miller to 'do a story to tell about and help promote TES and give TM recognition, and perhaps a 10 minute side-line story on Natalee along with 11 other missing persons. Dateline tagged along with TM for a while pre-NH search. They (TM and Dateline) came on the Persistence between 15-Dec and 30-Dec. I found the trap on 1:45am Christmas morning. I got the OK to begin our ROV dive series for the 29th, so I made it our first dive. We got visual of the fish trap and that it was suspicious. Basically, the fish trap door was open and there appeared to be a skull and torso-shape in sand on the door inside the trap Reviewing the 29-Dec video I noticed the torso shape in sand had a 90 degree angle and that the sand was supported from falling through the bottom of the trap, which was slightly excavated by currents. I proportioned out the distance from the top of the head, to shoulder, to that 90 degree angle and it was a match to Natalee's photo of her standing -head, to shoulder, to the end of her denim skirt. I showed TM the proportional match and the possibility of a skirt under the sand and he said he's going to tell the parents. I said definitely not until we sample the trap and get results. He made the call to Dave and Beth independently.

Kyle Kingman: We all know it wasn't a blouse, but I believe they were sent some piece of fabric other than the fabric found inside the trap.

Kyle Kingman: The portion of the discolored blue fabric was presumably on the bottom of the fabric. In my opinion this discoloration is not another type of fabric, but rather biological staining or discoloration from biological growth caused from a high organic carbon content and decay. Basically, during decay a biological mat will form around the organics from remains. This is what I believe it is on the bottom of the fabric.

Kyle Kingman: It was confirmed by the FBI that they received a fabric sample send by Richardson and that it wasn't a match to Natalee's blouse. I think the video can prove or disprove whatever the FBI was sent was the same object or not. I strongly believe it's blue denim.

Kyle Kingman: Notice the end of the skirt is an identical match to the 90 degree angle in the sand. I believe her left arm was outstretched with her legs slightly bent. I did not edit the legs. I believe the tarp was placed over her and tucked around her, or perhaps tied down. I believe there are several rocks laying on the sand which were placed on the tarp, or inside the tarp over her body which explains their unusual location. Either way, the proportions appear promising.

Kyle Kingman: The fabric(s?) are not visible on either the Dec 29th or 30th dives. There is about an inch of sand over the fabrics. The fabrics are completely covered. The diver sampled the sand and found the fabric underneath the sand. He then bagged the blue fabric. If the other bag contains fabric, it was also in the sand. There was also something possibly recovered from far inside the trap. In the video the diver is inside the trap with just below his knees showing. I don't know what was sampled far inside the trap if anything.

Kyle Kingman: In my opinion that last pic from Jan 7th should be absolutely intriguing and flip your mind from what you thought you knew. In case it isn't clear.. notice the blue denim-like fabric.

Kyle Kingman: Notice the blue fabric swayed in the current.

Kyle Kingman: The blue tarp piece was found approx 6-10 ft away from the trap opening.

Kyle Kingman:  I am 100% confident other important items are at that site and can be found during processing of the site with a suction system.  The only confirmation of items sampled were blue fabric and the piece of tarp.  This is the only thing Richardson and Mos independantly confirmed.  Remember, they each only confirmed one piece.  One confirmed blue fabric, the other confirmed tarp.  From the video you see both.

Kyle Kingman: The most likely to remain at or near it's original location was the skull, which is why I was so convinced the object pictured was a skull.

Kyle Kingman: I'm sorry if this is disturbing. I took the picture of Natalee standing on the beach and cropped, rotated, and scaled the image to correlate with the trap body form. Notice the end of the skirt is an identical match to the 90 degree angle in the sand.

Kyle Kingman: The bag that is above the denim bag looks to me as though it contains pieces of vertebrae.

Kyle Kingman:  As of the 2nd week of Feb, this is what I had learned from the FBI: The contents of the trap were being actively investigated. The forensic results of a fabric sample showed the fabric sample was not a match to Natalee's blouse and that no DNA match to Natalee was found within that fabric sample. Human remains were found, but the FBI was not and would not comment on the case. The FBI did not comment on the remains, but rather the fabric sample.

Kyle Kingman:  If you quote me, please include the quote for accuracy. I never said there were no human remains.”

Kyle Kingman: In my opinion, the blue fabric is quite possibly Natalee's skirt. The divers found the denim where I suggested a week earlier (Dec 29th) to Tim Miller that there was likely Natalee's denim skirt under the sand. Also in my opinion, the deni-like fabric is a match in terms of color, quantity, and structure to Natalee's skirt. It's not a lot of denim folded in the bag, but then again her skirt was rather small.

Kyle Kingman:  The sediment in this case is fine-grained sand which is preferencially deposited to make a body form. For sand to preferentially deposit, there needs to be a lower energy state where the sand collects and stays. This can be achieved either with a shallow depression creating accomodation space and lower potential energy (not the case) or by creating small eddy currents due to surface friction. The sediment around the door area is being eroded or removed by currents. Where the body was, it is being deposited. Basically, the fabrics created enough resistence for sediment to preferentially collect on it. Further, bacterial staining due to decaying organics acts as a mild cementing agent. Combined, you will have sediment erosion around the body form and deposition on the body form which collects through time. In this case, possibly 2 1/2 years.
 

[texasmom]

Rob might be able to recognize him for sure.  Looks a little young to me but maybe he is just aging well.

Maybe it's not the same one.  I found a myspace for Mathew Entertainment.  It says 22 year old female from RI.  Seems to link to the Foxy Lady website in that ads for barmaids etc. are run through it.  I dunno!

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eduardo_Mathew

Eduardo Alexander Antonio Mathew (born 1973)

[Anna]

Rob might be able to recognize him for sure.  Looks a little young to me but maybe he is just aging well.

Maybe it's not the same one.  I found a myspace for Mathew Entertainment.  It says 22 year old female from RI.  Seems to link to the Foxy Lady website in that ads for barmaids etc. are run through it.  I dunno!

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eduardo_Mathew

Eduardo Alexander Antonio Mathew (born 1973)

Well, that is likely THE Eduardo Alex Matthews.  I thought he was much older but then that may be because of Ben Vocking trying to fight with him.  No wonder he got his jaw broken.