Natalee Case Discussion #813 3/31/09 - 4/5/09

[texasmom]

It is being reported at BFN that Fred is back home now and the search is over. 

There was one report posted here, that said he'd be leaving on Wednesday, so I guess maybe there was a smidgeon of truth in that...

texasmom,

it as somewhat strange to see Marianne Croes as spokesperson for Valero....

Yes it is 2NJ, I'm glad you pointed that out.  I had to go back and read it again.  Strange indeed.  

[Magnolia]

OT....

Our 80ish neighbor just came and rang the doorbell while I was typing my last post.  She locked herself out of her house.  She has never rang our doorbell in 34 years, though we always call and ask her if she needs anything.!  Her husband is in a nursing home, so she's alone.  She said maybe she was just distracted because her BIL died today....we shared that we'd had a bad week, as well.  Our sons just left to help her and gave up the hockey game they were watching with their Dad. 

There has to be a reason that these things all come to be.  No riddle intended.   

Very sweet of your boys, 2NJ. 

[BUCKSHOT]

It is being reported at BFN that Fred is back home now and the search is over. 

 

The negative outcome of the current search was a given from the getgo.  Considering  Kyle Kingman's own words regarding his sonar search of the pond and ... the realization that the pond was dry in May, 2008 ... the only way that evidence which was Natalee Holloway case related would be discovered at the bottom of that pond would be if the contents retrieved from trap were planted by those attempting to bring about a simple closure to the case ... a closure that would only implicate Joran van der Sloot who was a minor on May 30, 2005.

However ... the Aruban "powers that be" had to scrap that agenda.  Obviously ... Kyle Kingman's own words as well as the ROV images splattered all over the internet was not anticipated.

Janet

++++++


THE MONSERAT POND

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman: There are 18 targets. Two are definitely tires.  The rest, who knows. It's likely tin cans, mud clumps, and debris. There is one small box-like target but it's only 2ft across and doesn't have much relief, unless it's completely sunk into the mud (likely). I can find something about the size of a hockey puck with that system in good conditions. The water was very shallow when this survey was done. Remember, in February 2006 the pond was almost dry.
 
Kyle Kingman:  I haven't talked to John since he left for Aruba. I don't see why or how they need John to search the pond unless they were hell bent at only searching the pond for the targets I picked, which is obsurd since the pond is empty.

Kyle Kingman:  I think it is highly unlikely and completely inconsistent with numerous testimonies and other evidence that the pond (or anything but the ocean) contains Natalee's remains.  The witness claims to have seen a muddy Joran coming out of the Monserat pond after disposing of her body…The 40+ investigators brought in from Holland never stepped foot in the pond.

QUIT BEING LOGICAL JANET..YOUR CONFUSING CaplocksGizzard and his followers!

Yes. Real life and truth seems to confuse them. They live in Fantasy Land on One Happy Island.

CLG = CapsLockGizzard.
CLG = ConcoctedLyingGimp.

[Keepthefaith]

It is being reported at BFN that Fred is back home now and the search is over. 

 

The negative outcome of the current search was a given from the getgo.  Considering  Kyle Kingman's own words regarding his sonar search of the pond and ... the realization that the pond was dry in May, 2008 ... the only way that evidence which was Natalee Holloway case related would be discovered at the bottom of that pond would be if the contents retrieved from trap were planted by those attempting to bring about a simple closure to the case ... a closure that would only implicate Joran van der Sloot who was a minor on May 30, 2005.

However ... the Aruban "powers that be" had to scrap that agenda.  Obviously ... Kyle Kingman's own words as well as the ROV images splattered all over the internet was not anticipated.

Janet

++++++


THE MONSERAT POND

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman: There are 18 targets. Two are definitely tires.  The rest, who knows. It's likely tin cans, mud clumps, and debris. There is one small box-like target but it's only 2ft across and doesn't have much relief, unless it's completely sunk into the mud (likely). I can find something about the size of a hockey puck with that system in good conditions. The water was very shallow when this survey was done. Remember, in February 2006 the pond was almost dry.
 
Kyle Kingman:  I haven't talked to John since he left for Aruba. I don't see why or how they need John to search the pond unless they were hell bent at only searching the pond for the targets I picked, which is obsurd since the pond is empty.

Kyle Kingman:  I think it is highly unlikely and completely inconsistent with numerous testimonies and other evidence that the pond (or anything but the ocean) contains Natalee's remains.  The witness claims to have seen a muddy Joran coming out of the Monserat pond after disposing of her body…The 40+ investigators brought in from Holland never stepped foot in the pond.

QUIT BEING LOGICAL JANET..YOUR CONFUSING CaplocksGizzard and his followers!

Yes. Real life and truth seems to confuse them. They live in Fantasy Land on One Happy Island.

CLG = CapsLockGizzard.
CLG = ConcoctedLyingGimp.

 

[Tamikosmom]

QUIT BEING LOGICAL JANET..YOUR CONFUSING CaplocksGizzard and his followers!

 

Hey ... I am not the author of confusion.  There is not one poster on one Natalee Holloway forum that does not know the position that Tamikosmom has taken on each Natalee Holloway issue.

I contend that Caps was given that responsibility by the Aruban "powers that be" last in November, 2007.  His assignment was to keep the focus off the ocean ... off the Persistence undertaking and ... redirect that focus to the pond ... to the cemetery.  His assignment was to lead his followers down many dead end roads while ... at the same time ... retaining their loyalty.

Good Night Keepthefaith!  Good Night Monkeys!

Janet

[texasmom]

QUIT BEING LOGICAL JANET..YOUR CONFUSING CaplocksGizzard and his followers!

 

Hey ... I am not the author of confusion.  There is not one poster on one Natalee Holloway forum that does not know the position that Tamikosmom has taken on each Natalee Holloway issue.

I contend that Caps was given that responsibility by the Aruban "powers that be" last in November, 2007.  His assignment was to keep the focus off the ocean ... off the Persistence undertaking and ... redirect that focus to the pond ... to the cemetery.  His assignment was to lead his followers down many dead end roads while ... at the same time ... retaining their loyalty.

Good Night Keepthefaith!  Good Night Monkeys!

Janet

Good Night Janet!   

[Keepthefaith]

QUIT BEING LOGICAL JANET..YOUR CONFUSING CaplocksGizzard and his followers!

 

Hey ... I am not the author of confusion.  There is not one poster on one Natalee Holloway forum that does not know the position that Tamikosmom has taken on each Natalee Holloway issue.

I contend that Caps was given that responsibility by the Aruban "powers that be" last in November, 2007.  His assignment was to keep the focus off the ocean ... off the Persistence undertaking and ... redirect that focus to the pond ... to the cemetery.  His assignment was to lead his followers down many dead end roads while ... at the same time ... retaining their loyalty.

Good Night Keepthefaith!  Good Night Monkeys!

Janet

GoodNight Janet....LOGIC IS WHERE IT"S AT!

[AZSunny]

OT....

Our 80ish neighbor just came and rang the doorbell while I was typing my last post.  She locked herself out of her house.  She has never rang our doorbell in 34 years, though we always call and ask her if she needs anything.!  Her husband is in a nursing home, so she's alone.  She said maybe she was just distracted because her BIL died today....we shared that we'd had a bad week, as well.  Our sons just left to help her and gave up the hockey game they were watching with their Dad. 

There has to be a reason that these things all come to be.  No riddle intended.   

Thank you for sharing 2NJSons.

There will be other hockey games.  Assisting and supporting each other when the road gets rough in this journey called life is what it is all about.

God Bless.

Janet

And 2NJ was there for me with full support when my husband died last year.  I appreciated it then, and I remember now!

[Blue Moon]

A lot of tidbits learned in the first week or so after May 31, 2005 contained facts.

Anyone else share this feeling with me?

After that, it was known by all to clam up about any details. Disinformation was their method(s).

Quite frankly, it took some time before most said to themselves: WTF is going on down there?

Examples:
(1) They let the three last known suspects go for 10 days of "surveillance" ???
(2) The search warrant of the main suspect was blocked ???
(3) They are rock painting in bio-hazard suits in an isolatred area on the island as precaution to motorists ???
(4) They won't allow outside assistance from other credible agencies ???
(5) A confession, by the main suspect, is retracted ???

This was a slam dunk. It is a major shame that they F'ed it up so bad?
They have spent exponentially more time NOT SOLVING this case than SOLVING it.

My first impression the first time they showed J2K on TV is an automatic "They raped her and then murdered her".  I have felt no different since.  The second thing I thought is "they will get off scot free".

Of all three of J2K Deepak is the one who made my mind up about what happened.  I looked at him and I got a very bad vibe from him, he had this evil face.  Funny how Deepak is who I honed in on from the beginning.

[Kermit]

QUIT BEING LOGICAL JANET..YOUR CONFUSING CaplocksGizzard and his followers!

 

Hey ... I am not the author of confusion.  There is not one poster on one Natalee Holloway forum that does not know the position that Tamikosmom has taken on each Natalee Holloway issue.

I contend that Caps was given that responsibility by the Aruban "powers that be" last in November, 2007.  His assignment was to keep the focus off the ocean ... off the Persistence undertaking and ... redirect that focus to the pond ... to the cemetery.  His assignment was to lead his followers down many dead end roads while ... at the same time ... retaining their loyalty.

Good Night Keepthefaith!  Good Night Monkeys!

Janet

CAPS NEVER MENTIONED A WITNESS IN HIS ORIGINAL REPORT TO THE FAMILY/FBI
 
CAPS
#165 on: September 10, 2008, 04:04:49 PM  caps
Klassend: do you remember my report that I send to the FBI in December 31,2007 and the withness statement came later...my research shows that to be pickup from McDonnald, he has  to come from that pond
 
#1547 on: January 30, 2008, 12:13:48 AM
Monkeys friend:

I started to look at the case of Natalee on Dec 22, 2007 and I wrote a research report that was send to the FBI to let  them take a look into my reseach. The research is not about who did, it is about by looking at all the possible scenarios that can match a single "AND LOGIC" connected question.

I send it to klaasend for review and that's how I got here. The results was a place that everyone overlooked.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1952.msg333988#msg333988
 
--------------------------------
 
CAPS APPARENTLY DISCREDITS HIS OWN WITNESS
 
#638 on: September 24, 2008, 10:17:40 PM
Search for Saturday...

on one note about Hidden in plain view, and I spend a lot of time thinking when I started shango and when the pond was discoverd, it is in a sense hidden but it is also in plain view depend where you are looking at

When I break the news to klassend about the pond, I contacted David but it took almost 2 month to get an reaction. and lost alot of opportunity to react and at the same time Peter was saying that the case was solved.

another thing, form good source, the case will re-open, Fredy Data in the pipeline.

I jave been working on several peaces of the puzzel and maybe by friday I will a definitiv where did they go after C&C

one we got that , alot will fall in places. The two posibilities are both plausable Matty and Home, looking at it 50 - 50 one has to add an AND conditiion about the movie.

now Movie at the sloot plausable, Movie at Matty Plausable.

Now we at another AND condition and that is "Now we have a dead body" and both are plausable.

then came the desposal of the body and here is where thing can change

if They burried in the Back of the house than there was not a need to go to the pond and loose a shoe and where a withness saw you at 4.05 from his windows.

if they burried in the pond, and who ever drove you there to help him drop the body ir hid it, left joran alone there and could not get back home since he lost a shoe (only in mud you can loose a sneaker) his cloths got dirty and wet.

at exiting from the pond he could not find the return home car since it did split and since the driver did not wanted to be seen by the guards waiting for the perp.

By leaving him alone, he had no other choice to seek for his father but his father was looking for him on the main street but Joran was on the secondary road. The splitting coused him to be alone and running towards Mc donalds.

If the car did not split, they could have droven him back home and then they could have gone away with the story of dumping in the ocean.

all is documented.....
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=3390.msg470096#msg470096
 
 

[Kermit]

http://www.amigoe.com/artman/publish/artikel_54762.php

There is no such thing as a "free lunch", SARFA!!!! 

How shallow can they be to bring up something like that?  Why didn't the 'beautiful' island of Aruba find a hotel/restaurant to donate lunches to their "own" SARFA??  It is all too sad. 

They need to "bill" Capslockwizard -- he's the one that spear-headed the wild goose chase!

Charge  for the whole enchilada.
Obstruction of justice.

[Kermit]

Is Hotshot a spokesperson for Dave Holloway or ... is it her way of subtlely underminding the mother of Natalee Holloway and ... upholding the Aruban agenda.  Something akin to Caps one of his first submissions to the SM Front Page

Mouthpiece, but not a spokesperson.

[Keepthefaith]

Is Hotshot a spokesperson for Dave Holloway or ... is it her way of subtlely underminding the mother of Natalee Holloway and ... upholding the Aruban agenda.  Something akin to Caps one of his first submissions to the SM Front Page

Mouthpiece, but not a spokesperson.

Pleasssseee don't tell me Dave communicates with HotShot....

[Tamikosmom]

Upholding Dave Holloway's cooperation with the enemy and ... subtley undermining the mother of Natalee Holloway seems to a very common tactic on the Gold Monkey's forum by protical monkeys.

In my opinion ... Natalee Holloway's desperate father is being dispicably used/deceived as a means to afford credibility to the Aruba agenda ... an agenda that does not adhere to the prevailing of justice for his precious daughter.

Janet

++++++


Casa
Re: Natalee's Body Found??
« Reply #100 on: March 25, 2009, 10:31:02 pm »

Dave Holloway goes down Fighting
By Patrick Hurley (bio)

In 2005, a young lady from Mountain Brook, Alabama, disappeared in Aruba after getting into a car with three local boys outside a bar called Carlos and Charlie’s. Her name was Natalee Holloway. Since then, there have been massive searches for her and endless speculation on her fate. To no avail. The main suspect in the case, Joran van der Sloot, is a pathological liar who has changed his story of the night of Natalee’s disappearance at least seven times. He was the final person to see Natalee on that fateful night. The final conclusion is that she will never be found alive again. The story now is the valiant effort of a father’s love still hoping to find his little girl. Against all odds, Dave Holloway is mounting a last ditch effort to recover the body of his beloved daughter by hiring a man and his dogs to scour a pond where a witness claims he saw Joran van der Sloot that night with a missing shoe in the vicinity of the pond. It is a long shot. It is likely nothing new will be found. That is not the point.

How do you measure a father’s love for his child? You don’t. It is infinite and eternal. It lasts forever. From the moment you hold your baby in your arms you are hooked beyond emotional reason. The only thing that will stop Dave Holloway from searching for his lovely Natalee is for him to stop breathing. Until that final moment comes, he will not give up. Never. This is not an obsession, this is what parental commitment should be. In a society that has difficulty keeping families together, Dave Holloway is an inspiration to all of us. He is the shining star of why God instituted the family unit in the first place.

The sadness he feels goes all the way back to Natalee’s request to go on her senior trip to Aruba. Dave Holloway was against it. He did not feel comfortable with his girl in a foreign country. Even one called Paradise. Finally, after much cajoling from her mother and Natalee begging him to assent to her dream vacation, he relented. He gave his reluctant blessing. As it turns out, his instincts were right all along. Now, he has to use them in an effort to recover her body. Had she listened to him, she would be at the University of Alabama studying to become a doctor. Of such small decisions, tragedies find their way into a family’s life.

If you are religious, I ask you to pray especially hard this week for him and his search. As a dad, I cannot imagine the pain he has gone through and the depth of determination he possesses to make things right for his Natalee. From the moment he said yes to her it has been an ongoing nightmare that has not ended.

Ask God for it to be resolved.

So a father can finally find peace.

He has suffered enough.

http://politicalmavens.com/index.php/2009/03/24/holloway-goes-down-fighting/

Janet,
I also posted the above article here at SM.  Not because I agreed with EVERYTHING it said, but because it did make a point that I think does apply to Dave Holloway regarding losing Natalee.  That point is;

"How do you measure a father’s love for his child? You don’t. It is infinite and eternal. It lasts forever. From the moment you hold your baby in your arms you are hooked beyond emotional reason. The only thing that will stop Dave Holloway from searching for his lovely Natalee is for him to stop breathing. Until that final moment comes, he will not give up. Never. This is not an obsession, this is what parental commitment should be. In a society that has difficulty keeping families together, Dave Holloway is an inspiration to all of us. He is the shining star of why God instituted the family unit in the first place."

It wasn't stated in the above article but the same applies to Beth and is the reason she too will never give up.  

I won't speak for casa and her intent, but mine was not to in any way undermine Beth.  There aren't words that can express how I feel about Beth, how much I admire her courage, strength, and tenacity in this situation.  I don't find as much written about Dave and liked how the author described him regarding Natalee's loss. With the pond search ongoing at his request, for his peace of mind; I thought it was appropriate so I posted it.  My apologies if anyone was offended by it.

As far as Dave finally giving in and allowing Natalee to go on the trip....

I believe what was written in Dave's book about Natalee's trip.  This is what it says;

Page 4 of ARUBA by Dave Holloway with R. Stephanie Good and Larry Garrison

In February 2005, Natalee called me and asked permission to go on a trip to Aruba with her graduating class.  This is apparently a rite of passage for teenagers all over the country.  They convince their parents to allow this one-time privilege as a gift for all of their hard work, and parents often agree, even when their instincts tell them otherwise.  I was apprehensive about Natalee taking this trip, and I tried to talk her out of it.  I did not like the idea of her traveling that far away with so many other students and so few chaperones.

When I received the trip brochure I saw that the cost was approximately $985.  Robin and I are from the old school, and we felt that was a bit extravagant for a high school graduation trip.  After a few days of consideration, I told Natalee that we could not approve of the trip for two reasons:  it was too extravagant, and we did not think it was appropriate.  However, I told her that I would give her a graduation gift of half the amount of the cost of the trip for her to do with as she pleased.  Since Natalee’s step-brother had been to Aruba with his class two years earlier, and her twin cousins were graduating with her class and were going along with her this year, Beth felt comfortable allowing Natalee to make the trip.

Texasmom

Any article that upholds Dave Holloway and undermines Beth ... I negate as furthering the AHATA agenda.  The comment about Beth was soooo unnecessary.

Don't take this the wrong way.  I completely understand the pressure Dave was under regarding Natalee's trip to Aruba.  However ... if the blame game is going to be played ... it is Dave Holloway who I do not give a free pass.  This father could have stood his ground if he had serious doubts about his daughter's safety instead of presenting her a $500.00 cheque.  Dave Holloway has been blessed with a free will ... he should have used it.

Beth Holloway did not have any doubts ... Natalee Holloway did not have any doubts.  Previous graduations trips that included family members put any fears regarding safety to rest.  Natalee had been warned about potential dangers.

My eldest son and school chum went on a surfing vacation to Huntington Beach in California the summer following graduation.  His father and I were against it.  It was the drive as well as the lifestyle that concerned us.  Long story short ... we had put aside $1000.00 for a graduation gift but refused his request to use it to support his summer expenses.  Two months later ... when these two young men returned ... he was then afforded the $1000.00.

Good Night texasmom.

Janet

[Blue Moon]

Is Hotshot a spokesperson for Dave Holloway or ... is it her way of subtlely underminding the mother of Natalee Holloway and ... upholding the Aruban agenda.  Something akin to Caps one of his first submissions to the SM Front Page

Mouthpiece, but not a spokesperson.

Yes she does.  Don't you remember that Dave had to change his phone number because of so many people calling him (like her for one)?

Calling it a night.  Will see you all Sunday---going to Tunica MS to casino and to see Charlie Daniels Band in concert.

Have a good weekend.

Pleasssseee don't tell me Dave communicates with HotShot....

[Blue Moon]

Is Hotshot a spokesperson for Dave Holloway or ... is it her way of subtlely underminding the mother of Natalee Holloway and ... upholding the Aruban agenda.  Something akin to Caps one of his first submissions to the SM Front Page

Mouthpiece, but not a spokesperson.

Pleasssseee don't tell me Dave communicates with HotShot....

Yes she does.  Don't you remember that Dave had to change his phone number because of so many people calling him (like her for one)?

Calling it a night.  Will see you all Sunday---going to Tunica MS to casino and to see Charlie Daniels Band in concert.

Have a good weekend.

(I'm having a bad day today--2nd time I've done this)

[Keepthefaith]

Is Hotshot a spokesperson for Dave Holloway or ... is it her way of subtlely underminding the mother of Natalee Holloway and ... upholding the Aruban agenda.  Something akin to Caps one of his first submissions to the SM Front Page

Mouthpiece, but not a spokesperson.

Pleasssseee don't tell me Dave communicates with HotShot....

Yes she does.  Don't you remember that Dave had to change his phone number because of so many people calling him (like her for one)?

Calling it a night.  Will see you all Sunday---going to Tunica MS to casino and to see Charlie Daniels Band in concert.

Have a good weekend.

(I'm having a bad day today--2nd time I've done this)

I thought he got wise and changed his phone #..Do we have confirmation he still does?????

[Tamikosmom]

OT....

Our 80ish neighbor just came and rang the doorbell while I was typing my last post.  She locked herself out of her house.  She has never rang our doorbell in 34 years, though we always call and ask her if she needs anything.!  Her husband is in a nursing home, so she's alone.  She said maybe she was just distracted because her BIL died today....we shared that we'd had a bad week, as well.  Our sons just left to help her and gave up the hockey game they were watching with their Dad. 

There has to be a reason that these things all come to be.  No riddle intended.   

Thank you for sharing 2NJSons.

There will be other hockey games.  Assisting and supporting each other when the road gets rough in this journey called life is what it is all about.

God Bless.

Janet

And 2NJ was there for me with full support when my husband died last year.  I appreciated it then, and I remember now!

AZSunny ... I did not know.  I am sooo sorry for your loss.  How are you coping.

Hugs

Janet

[texasmom]

Is Hotshot a spokesperson for Dave Holloway or ... is it her way of subtlely underminding the mother of Natalee Holloway and ... upholding the Aruban agenda.  Something akin to Caps one of his first submissions to the SM Front Page

Mouthpiece, but not a spokesperson.

Pleasssseee don't tell me Dave communicates with HotShot....

Yes she does.  Don't you remember that Dave had to change his phone number because of so many people calling him (like her for one)?

Calling it a night.  Will see you all Sunday---going to Tunica MS to casino and to see Charlie Daniels Band in concert.

Have a good weekend.

(I'm having a bad day today--2nd time I've done this)

Good Night Blue Moon!  I hope you have a great time this weekend, safe travels!   

[Monkey Mia]

What do you think they did....sit around and play cards one night and decide they would play some cruel jokes on the Americans...?  And CLW had the most time on his hands....so he was chosen?

When you read back you see how accomodating SM was to him....even with the story changes and the craziness.  I could choke on some of the tales that were bought hook, line and sinker.

I am so sorry that Dave and Beth have had to listen to this one and so many more. 

I personally do not care one wit what Aruba does with it's own murder investigations....but I care a lot about what they did with this one. 

And I agree....the guy at the table needs to stop drinking that beer and take a big glass of pond water instead....!

You are so right, Mere, and I hope you make it through the night safely.