Natalee Case Discussion #813 3/31/09 - 4/5/09

[Anna]

Also, it was Paulus van der Sloot who was in charge of evidence in the trial of Alex Matthews, evidence that kept disappearing, according to Matthews.

Then Ben Vocking changes his name.  Why if he did nothing wrong?  But he was not connected to a human rights violation I would suppose was the reason.

When Paulus is in trouble, Ben (Voc)King takes two weeks off, per Marianne Croes who was spokes person at the time, from his job, now with the Prosecution's Office.  Takes two weeks off to assist his good friend Paulus.  Maybe payback for the assistance he received himself from Paulus in the Matthews case of vanishing evidence.

And Ben (Voc)King was one of the ones on hand when the Sloot compound was searched to insure that no real search took place and that the scope of it was limited along with Paulus' judge friend who opened the door.


Just a review.  . . . is this how others recall it as well?

[Anna]

O/T Need collective intelligence of our Monkey Family, please.

If a person pleads not guilty to involuntary manslaughter, disposing of a body the wrong way, and various selling and buy drugs, if a person waives the right to an attorney, what does this really mean? That the person is going to represent himself or herself.

Couldn't the judge "order" an attorney for him or her?

IBE,

I don't know the answer to this but it would vary from State to State.  I do think in some states, one cannot defend themself for crimes that carry heavier sentences and in some states can't if it is a capital offense.

[Anna]

I was at a friend's house earlier and they had on Lifetime or LMN channel and I saw the advertisement for the Natalee Holloway movie to be aired Sunday April 19.


I expressed great interest and one of them said that was about the fifth time she had seen the ad, that they run it very often.

So it is getting a lot of publicity.

[Magnolia]

One thing that I remember about Alexander Eduardo Mathew is that his original offence was
domestic violence which his wife always denied.

That was what they arrested Charles Croes for when they wanted to shut him up.

Didn't Mathew get the phone contract and then they took it away because of his
criminal record?

[texasmom]

I was at a friend's house earlier and they had on Lifetime or LMN channel and I saw the advertisement for the Natalee Holloway movie to be aired Sunday April 19.


I expressed great interest and one of them said that was about the fifth time she had seen the ad, that they run it very often.

So it is getting a lot of publicity.

 

[Rob]

I think there is more to the Alex Mathew story than any of us know.

Oduber cutting the ribbon of his new brothel is just hinky after what we
know of the prison and the telephone contract.

He is suddenly the prodigal son.

I agree! 

I've always considered Mathew a suspect or a frame job on Natalee. Either way - he's suspicious.

[Keepthefaith]

Me personally.I will word it a bit stronger!Any forum that continues to entertain CapsLockGizard without calling him on his bullSh_T is not for JUSTICE FOR NATALEE HOLLOWAY..That is my opinion!You can not continue to listen to someone so full of Sh_T and not have it all over yourself...Posters have been provided with enough information in regards to CapsLockGizzard and what he entails..DISINFORMATION!!!

Hey ... both Mum and SS at one point woke up in regards to the purpose of Cap's presence on the SM Natalee Holloway forum Caps ... the purpose to distract but ... then went back to sleep.  Why?

Janet

+++++


SS - NOVEMBER, 2008

SS
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #775 11/16/08 thru
on: November 17, 2008, 08:32:15 PM 

Monkeys - Kyle said that he discovered the trap on the screen very early Christmas morning.  That's when Tim said  "it looks like a skull".  The contents of the trap were cleaned on January 7th.  Persistence continued to use side scan sonor to map the ocean floor well into February.  Now how could they justify all of those extra weeks of searching for a missing American woman if they had already found her in the beginning of January?  They also needed to get our focus off of Persistence and the ocean search.  Viola!  Caps enters the picture to tell us about Manserat Pond.  The picture of the cage was never supposed to be released and I'm sure that caused big trouble.  All of the evidence disappeared.  The fabric sent to Quantico wasn't Natalee's blouse.  There wasn't anything else in the cage - it was just a coconut or a piece of coral.  Back to the ocean search for Peristence so that they could continue with the grids and their non profit search.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4129.msg546635#msg546635


SS
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
« Reply #156 on: December 04, 2008, 02:08:35 AM »

1.  Silvetti's businesses were in trouble.  He wanted to start new businesses with oil and an oil pipeline from Aruba to Chavez in Colombia.  He needed money.

2.  He illegally sold off his shares of stock and that is why the SEC is after him.

3.  Before he started his new oil business, he needed to have a geological scan of the ocean floor.  Doing those scans costs lots of money.

4.  He agreed to volunteer his ship, crew, and equipment to search for a missing American woman in the same area.  He scans the ocean floor looking for Natalee, but really he's doing oil work.

5.  Most of his expenses for the Persistence search were written off on his corporate tax returns because it was charity work and a donation that he was doing.  By looking for Natalee, he was able to map the ocean for free.

6.  Natalee was found in the end of December.  Oh no, what can he do?  He can't keep mapping the ocean floor for free because he just found the missing American woman.  So, the trap contents were turned over to ALE, nothing was ever in that trap. and he continued to search for Natalee and map for oil for another 6 to 8 weeks -at very little expense to himself.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4186.msg565794;topicseen#msg565794


SS
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #782 12/5/08 -
« Reply #726 on: December 06, 2008, 04:23:52 PM »

I agree with you, Janet.  I thought a lot about it last night, after I finally had to turn my computer off and just think.  In his heart, I'm sure that Tim Miller believed what he had seen or he wouldn't have said, Bull$hit with the thumbs down.  However, he had no control over all of that pphotographic equipment and perhaps he was only being shown what they wanted him to see.  There was a very good reason why they had to get him off of Persistence before January 7th.  I don't think that Dave or Tim would have gone to Nicaragua if they didn't think it was a viable lead.  I wonder if ALE are the ones who set it all up as another one of their infamous diversion tactics

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4209.msg569218#msg569218


SS
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #782 12/5/08 -
« Reply #697 on: December 06, 2008, 03:26:15 PM »

Blue Moon - great reference!  I have pretty much been a believer that Natalee was buried on land, but after Kyle's calculations, I don't think so anymore.  Kyle is a trained oceanographer and he has been taught how to make those calculations of objects on the ocean floor.  Kyle's calculations are actually the first piece of scientific data that we have after three and a half years.  I wonder if it would be too much of a stretch to hope that the release of the cage photographs somehow has forced Rudy's hand???  They can't deny any longer that something was in the cage.  There are photographs to prove the lie.  Whether or not they have destroyed the actual cage contents remains to be seen.  If the evidence has been destroyed, Richardson and Mos could also be in trouble along with Paulass and Uncle Jan.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4209.msg569178#msg569178


SS
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #782 12/5/08 -
« Reply #702 on: December 06, 2008, 03:41:17 PM »

Tim became a liability because her had the film footage from the 29th and the 30th.  He knew what was in the cage.  Just from the original Photographs on the 29th, we can clearly see a skull and a shoe.  I think Tim probably became a source of contention and was distracted away from the ship so the contents could be turned over to ALE.  Tim has to have figured out what happened.  I wonder if it's difficult for him to look at Beth and Dave in their eyes.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4209.msg569184#msg569184


SS
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #782 12/5/08 -
« Reply #702 on: December 06, 2008, 03:41:17 PM »

Tim became a liability because her had the film footage from the 29th and the 30th.  He knew what was in the cage.  Just from the original Photographs on the 29th, we can clearly see a skull and a shoe.  I think Tim probably became a source of contention and was distracted away from the ship so the contents could be turned over to ALE.  Tim has to have figured out what happened.  I wonder if it's difficult for him to look at Beth and Dave in their eyes.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4209.msg569184#msg569184


SS
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #782 12/5/08 -
« Reply #678 on: December 06, 2008, 01:52:46 PM »

I don't think anything would surprise me at this point.  This story is getting sicker by the day.  How could they just hand all of that evidence over to ALE and deny that they had found anything???  And, sit silently by when our FBI was sent a piece of nothing?

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4209.msg569137#msg569137
__________


Dialogue - SS and Tamikosmom:


Quote from: SS on November 24, 2008, 10:13:44 PM

I have some feelings about the photographs and I wonder if others feel the same way that I do.  If Louis, John, and Kyle had hidden those photographs from ALE so that they could be turned over to Beth, Dave, and US authorities, it would have been a dishonest action, but it would have been in the best interests of everyone.  ALE has been so despicable from day one, and under handed handling of evidence would have been a double standard, but I would have supported it and jumped up and down with cheers.  Unfortunately, that isn't what happened.  The evidence was hidden from Beth, Dave, and the American public and the photographs were never even given to the FBI by members of the Persistence group.  When I hear that there is even a remote possibility that Louis Schafer sold those photographs for big bucks and that Kyle attempted to sell the photographs to networks last February, I just want to scream.  These actions are beyond explanation or justification.


Quote from: Tamikosmom on November 24, 2008, 10:39:01 PM

I wish Kyle would respond to these allegations.
Thanks SS.
Janet


SS
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #778 11/23/08 -
« Reply #784 on: November 24, 2008, 10:46:48 PM »

Dinners over... I ate my crow and it didn't very good at all.  I am so sorry for going at you.  I was so convinced that everything and everyone involved with Perisistence were above reproach.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4173.msg556257;topicseen#msg556257



MUMINOHIO - MAY, 2008


MumInOhio
Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #3
« Reply #1412 on: May 06, 2008, 01:59:31 PM »

SS...I have read that as well...I have also read where he said it was other apartments, Dutch owned and not the Matty apartments. I am not going to go back to the first thread and find Cap's posts as I questioned him more than a couple of times as to why he changed his mind and he never answered!

He also didn't respond as to why he told me no to the Ind/Lion's Den in the first thread.

All that being said...he hasn't backed up his posts...just because Caps said it, doesn't make it so!

 I am sorry I don't mean to upset you, but you can post Caps posts forever and I will just keep telling you what he said previously.

I still want to know why he changed from the other apartments to the Matty and he will not answer!!!!!

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2787.msg379364#msg379364


MumInOhio
Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #3
« Reply #1424 on: May 06, 2008, 02:41:59 PM »

SS…let me ask you one question…

If I post the Freddy Zedan owns the Indo/Lion’s Den are you going to just take my word for it?

 Caps posts that the Kalpoes - the father or the stepfather, he never did answer which one, according to a girl there, now own it!

You can certainly take what Caps says without questions, but I will not. So please do not repost Caps post to me....Show me the proof!

 I have read everyone of Cap’s post at least three times…each day I type out an index…you would be very surprised what you see on the third read.

All I am trying to say is what you are posting from Caps is not what he said in January!

I am 99% sure as to why he switched to the Indo apartments…the answer is in one of your last few posts…and I will leave it at that!

And yes Lala’s…I am extremely frustrated…seems we have involved just about everyone on Aruba…new names are dropped every week.…I never see Joran’s name in this thread anymore!!!!!

And everytime Caps appears we have more questions!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

COLUMBO has a word for that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2787.msg379383#msg379383


MumInOhio
Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #3
« Reply #1440 on: May 06, 2008, 06:42:17 PM »

Guess we will have to agree to disagree. I don't have to give him the benefit of the doubt just because he's Caps

All I see is a whole lot of new names and misinformation and very few facts...Giovanni, Deutekom, Bulo, Freddy that doesn't exist, odd-bods living at the kalpoes address, list of names that don't match the phone book...
 
Yes, something is going on at that pond, and we are still dealing with Aruba. I'm in total agreement with Lala's on this one, nothing will come of the pond.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2787.msg379502#msg379502


MumInOhio
Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #3
« Reply #1450 on: May 06, 2008, 07:32:02 PM »

SS...A simple question as to if Deutekom was a Judge should have been answered 150 pages ago....so should the reason for him going back to the Indo/Lion's Den after he told me no to there. these are simple questions and both merit an answer!

I can't buy Cap's Dirty Hand Deutekom, because how he got to him was flawed. If he is not a Judge he wouldn't have been on that list. It is as simple as that!

There are more questions now than when Caps first started posting!

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2787.msg379518#msg379518


MumInOhio
Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #3
« Reply #1456 on: May 06, 2008, 11:11:21 PM »

Well I guess we are all frustrated today!

I attempted to explain to Caps at least 3 times the Judges list, and as one who tries to answer other poster’s questions, and acknowledge their posts I expected an answer on at least one of those occasions! If you have read my posts you would know that I have acknowledged that Deutekom may be a ‘Dirty Hand’ , just questioning the way he got there.

You can check my posts for this morning and see that I try to ‘share’ what I know! Have a look and see if my answer to another poster was even acknowledged!

I guess in your opinion it is OK for Caps to fire of all these questions at us, but he is not obligated to answer ours. Most of my questions to him have been about posts he has made and names like Bulo’s that we have never heard of. I have asked very few about things I am researching.

I have not asked any more from Caps than I would have asked from any other poster…back up your posts! BS on putting him in any sort of position! Not to the questions I have asked anyways.

Yes there are other theories on this thread, and I for one am sick and tired of having only one jammed down my throat.

I have read Caps posts many times and it is up to me if I go along with everything or anything he says.  Maybe it might help some if you let Caps know that it is creating problems by him dropping names with no other info….it would help a lot and certainly save some of us a lot of time….

JMHO

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2787.msg379582#msg379582


MumInOhio
Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #3
« Reply #1459 on: May 06, 2008, 11:33:41 PM »

... as you said this is a discussion forum and I have reason to question things in Caps posts! Most times when I have done so I do not receive an answer or if I do it is the post of Caps I am referring to posted back to me. Sorry … to me that is not discussion.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2787.msg379591#msg379591


MumInOhio
Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #3
« Reply #1467 on: May 07, 2008, 08:06:50 AM »

SS...Caps started posting in the NAH thread around mid-January. Klaas explained at the time that he had been posting on the front page previously. After 4 or 5 days Caps started posting in the Shango thread. This would have been way back in the first thread.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2787.msg379694#msg379694


MumInOhio
Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #3
« Reply #1468 on: May 07, 2008, 09:28:28 AM »

SS… You are right. I think Caps has information that has nothing to do with Shango as well. Caps does know the corruption and the ‘dark’ side of Aruba. He knows some of the players, probably a lot.

When Caps first started posting in the forum he knew very little about the case, or so it appears from his early posts. He asked us about the family, the friends, the private plane and the pimps. He asked about the suspects and about the people such as Julia and others that continually misinformed us. He needed our help and knowledge with these pieces of the puzzle. There is nothing wrong with that, I personally have spent a lot of time and posts sharing any information I had or could find.

A lot of time it seems to me that Caps has a piece that he feels fits into a Shango/Simian/Merian post, and just makes it fit. He has the player, the corrupt official, so that is the answer to that part of the riddle.

An example of this would be ‘the yellowhammer’. We started with a yellow hummer way back in the first thread, and most disagreed back then. When it was revisited recently and many posted that they thought it was the bird, Caps said OK, we’ll go with the bird, we’ll refine and correct any errors in his interpretations. The next day, Caps posts that he doesn’t think it is the bird. Our interpretation of ‘the yellowhammer’ doesn’t fit into Cap’s deciphering of the riddle.

I find this very frustrating. To me it is not that difficult.

Thanks everyone for the input on Bulo yesterday. Pita sorry for the confusion I may have caused on the Benz site. Somehow I confused myself…Vms…sounds like a good idea…maybe clear up some loose ends like Giovanni and Bulo…

 I think I need to go and sit in the grandstand with Lala’s and the other grannies for a day or two and go back to my own research.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2787.msg379700#msg379700


MumInOhio
Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #3
« Reply #1493 on: May 08, 2008, 09:33:46 AM »

This is a previous discussion about Ben VocKing. Below are 2 of Caps older posts regarding VocKing. So in February and March Caps knew who VocKing was, but not on April 25th.

Somewhere back around page 40 Caps posted a key in which he includes a pic of VocKing. You will notice that Caps refers to a picture of Voking in his response above.

Around pages 45 and 46 there is much discussion about the photo of VocKing and which is the correct one. The photo of VocKing that Caps included in his key and showed to the man who knew him very well is not of the person we determined to be VocKing.

This is why I ask questions…

<snipped>

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2787.msg379920#msg379920


MumInOhio
Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #3
« Reply #1494 on: May 08, 2008, 09:41:12 AM »

These posts of Caps have been etched in mind since March. Another reason I ask questions.

<snipped>

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2787.msg379922#msg379922


MumInOhio
Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #3
« Reply #1495 on: May 08, 2008, 10:12:11 AM »

Here is Cap's picture of Vocking.

Hotping...Thanks for the prayer. After the posts from last night, for the sake of harmony I have decided to refrain from posting in this thread any more.

Enjoy the Tango!

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2787.msg379926#msg379926


MumInOhio
Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #3
« Reply #1500 on: May 08, 2008, 11:55:52 AM »

Vms…I have suspected from very early on from Cap’s posts who Caps really is. I did not come to this conclusion from any mailing list from ‘our friend in Aruba’. Posts over the last 24 hours have confirmed my suspicions. Not everyone is whom they appear to be…I need to walk away!

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2787.msg379938#msg379938


MumInOhio
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #750 5/2 -
« Reply #936 on: May 08, 2008, 08:30:49 PM »

SS…since you bought this over from the Shango thread….there is no group attack on Caps. I have asked him to answer questions about his posts. He has not done so, on most occasions IMO. I said this morning that I would walk away. I have.

Many of my questions regarding Caps surround Ben Vocking. I posted on that this morning. Please go back and read from page 39 to page 46 of the thread. Open the links. Read Caps response very carefully and then read what I posted this morning.

I am not going to respond any further on the subject.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2819.msg380072#msg380072


++++++++


Dialogue - MumInOhio and Tamikosmom:

MumInOhio
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #789 1/1/09 -
« Reply #450 on: January 02, 2009, 10:35:03 PM »

Mum ... in May, 2008 you had come to a conclusion and ... were not going to uphold CAPS.  You backed up ;your reasoning perfectly and ... I agreed.  Your reasoning was what I had claimed from the getgo ... two months prior.  However ... you backtracked.

Mum ... it is so important to me.  I want to know why?

Sincerely, Janet

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4340.msg609481#msg609481



MumInOhio
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #789 1/1/09 -
« Reply #454 on: January 02, 2009, 11:06:23 PM »

Janet...You are like a pitbull...LOL

Nobody knows my position on this at this time...I am not ready to elaborate any more...I am Sorry.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4340.msg609545;topicseen#msg609545

BUMP

[Keepthefaith]

Prodical Monkeys

Would you disregard Kyle Kingman's own words ... when his field of expertice is taken into consideration ... if there was a possibility the remains of your loved one had been in that cage.

Janet

+++++++

A REMINDER

The fabric - The Tarp - The vertebrae - The Skull

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman:  I took the proportions of the body form from the head, to shoulder, to a 90 degree angle which I believed to be the hem line of Natalee's skirt. I then took those proportions and matched them to the photo of Natalee with what she was last seen wearing. The proportions matched within an inch from head, to shoulder, to skirt line. Based on this comparison and with what we believed we saw in the Dec 29th video, Tim Miller contacted the family and told them the 99.9% comment. I told Tim not to do anything until we have forensic results back after the site is processed. Jan 7th we sampled the contents and in my opinion we found the skirt under the sand along with the other items The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured. If it isn't her, it will forever haunt me as a major cosmic WTF.
 
Kyle Kingman:  This is how the Dateline episode happened:
Dateline (Tim Uelinger) had an agreement with Tim Miller to 'do a story to tell about and help promote TES and give TM recognition, and perhaps a 10 minute side-line story on Natalee along with 11 other missing persons. Dateline tagged along with TM for a while pre-NH search. They (TM and Dateline) came on the Persistence between 15-Dec and 30-Dec. I found the trap on 1:45am Christmas morning. I got the OK to begin our ROV dive series for the 29th, so I made it our first dive. We got visual of the fish trap and that it was suspicious. Basically, the fish trap door was open and there appeared to be a skull and torso-shape in sand on the door inside the trap Reviewing the 29-Dec video I noticed the torso shape in sand had a 90 degree angle and that the sand was supported from falling through the bottom of the trap, which was slightly excavated by currents. I proportioned out the distance from the top of the head, to shoulder, to that 90 degree angle and it was a match to Natalee's photo of her standing -head, to shoulder, to the end of her denim skirt. I showed TM the proportional match and the possibility of a skirt under the sand and he said he's going to tell the parents. I said definitely not until we sample the trap and get results. He made the call to Dave and Beth independently.

Kyle Kingman: We all know it wasn't a blouse, but I believe they were sent some piece of fabric other than the fabric found inside the trap.

Kyle Kingman: The portion of the discolored blue fabric was presumably on the bottom of the fabric. In my opinion this discoloration is not another type of fabric, but rather biological staining or discoloration from biological growth caused from a high organic carbon content and decay. Basically, during decay a biological mat will form around the organics from remains. This is what I believe it is on the bottom of the fabric.

Kyle Kingman: It was confirmed by the FBI that they received a fabric sample send by Richardson and that it wasn't a match to Natalee's blouse. I think the video can prove or disprove whatever the FBI was sent was the same object or not. I strongly believe it's blue denim.

Kyle Kingman: Notice the end of the skirt is an identical match to the 90 degree angle in the sand. I believe her left arm was outstretched with her legs slightly bent. I did not edit the legs. I believe the tarp was placed over her and tucked around her, or perhaps tied down. I believe there are several rocks laying on the sand which were placed on the tarp, or inside the tarp over her body which explains their unusual location. Either way, the proportions appear promising.

Kyle Kingman: The fabric(s?) are not visible on either the Dec 29th or 30th dives. There is about an inch of sand over the fabrics. The fabrics are completely covered. The diver sampled the sand and found the fabric underneath the sand. He then bagged the blue fabric. If the other bag contains fabric, it was also in the sand. There was also something possibly recovered from far inside the trap. In the video the diver is inside the trap with just below his knees showing. I don't know what was sampled far inside the trap if anything.

Kyle Kingman: In my opinion that last pic from Jan 7th should be absolutely intriguing and flip your mind from what you thought you knew. In case it isn't clear.. notice the blue denim-like fabric.

Kyle Kingman: Notice the blue fabric swayed in the current.

Kyle Kingman: The blue tarp piece was found approx 6-10 ft away from the trap opening.

Kyle Kingman:  I am 100% confident other important items are at that site and can be found during processing of the site with a suction system.  The only confirmation of items sampled were blue fabric and the piece of tarp.  This is the only thing Richardson and Mos independantly confirmed.  Remember, they each only confirmed one piece.  One confirmed blue fabric, the other confirmed tarp.  From the video you see both.

Kyle Kingman: The most likely to remain at or near it's original location was the skull, which is why I was so convinced the object pictured was a skull.

Kyle Kingman: I'm sorry if this is disturbing. I took the picture of Natalee standing on the beach and cropped, rotated, and scaled the image to correlate with the trap body form. Notice the end of the skirt is an identical match to the 90 degree angle in the sand.

Kyle Kingman: The bag that is above the denim bag looks to me as though it contains pieces of vertebrae.

Kyle Kingman:  As of the 2nd week of Feb, this is what I had learned from the FBI: The contents of the trap were being actively investigated. The forensic results of a fabric sample showed the fabric sample was not a match to Natalee's blouse and that no DNA match to Natalee was found within that fabric sample. Human remains were found, but the FBI was not and would not comment on the case. The FBI did not comment on the remains, but rather the fabric sample.

Kyle Kingman:  If you quote me, please include the quote for accuracy. I never said there were no human remains.”

Kyle Kingman: In my opinion, the blue fabric is quite possibly Natalee's skirt. The divers found the denim where I suggested a week earlier (Dec 29th) to Tim Miller that there was likely Natalee's denim skirt under the sand. Also in my opinion, the deni-like fabric is a match in terms of color, quantity, and structure to Natalee's skirt. It's not a lot of denim folded in the bag, but then again her skirt was rather small.

Kyle Kingman:  The sediment in this case is fine-grained sand which is preferencially deposited to make a body form. For sand to preferentially deposit, there needs to be a lower energy state where the sand collects and stays. This can be achieved either with a shallow depression creating accomodation space and lower potential energy (not the case) or by creating small eddy currents due to surface friction. The sediment around the door area is being eroded or removed by currents. Where the body was, it is being deposited. Basically, the fabrics created enough resistence for sediment to preferentially collect on it. Further, bacterial staining due to decaying organics acts as a mild cementing agent. Combined, you will have sediment erosion around the body form and deposition on the body form which collects through time. In this case, possibly 2 1/2 years.
 

BUMP

[Keepthefaith]

QUIT BEING LOGICAL JANET..YOUR CONFUSING CaplocksGizzard and his followers!

 

Hey ... I am not the author of confusion.  There is not one poster on one Natalee Holloway forum that does not know the position that Tamikosmom has taken on each Natalee Holloway issue.

I contend that Caps was given that responsibility by the Aruban "powers that be" last in November, 2007.  His assignment was to keep the focus off the ocean ... off the Persistence undertaking and ... redirect that focus to the pond ... to the cemetery.  His assignment was to lead his followers down many dead end roads while ... at the same time ... retaining their loyalty.

Good Night Keepthefaith!  Good Night Monkeys!

Janet

CAPS NEVER MENTIONED A WITNESS IN HIS ORIGINAL REPORT TO THE FAMILY/FBI
 
CAPS
#165 on: September 10, 2008, 04:04:49 PM  caps
Klassend: do you remember my report that I send to the FBI in December 31,2007 and the withness statement came later...my research shows that to be pickup from McDonnald, he has  to come from that pond
 
#1547 on: January 30, 2008, 12:13:48 AM
Monkeys friend:

I started to look at the case of Natalee on Dec 22, 2007 and I wrote a research report that was send to the FBI to let  them take a look into my reseach. The research is not about who did, it is about by looking at all the possible scenarios that can match a single "AND LOGIC" connected question.

I send it to klaasend for review and that's how I got here. The results was a place that everyone overlooked.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1952.msg333988#msg333988
 
--------------------------------
 
CAPS APPARENTLY DISCREDITS HIS OWN WITNESS
 
#638 on: September 24, 2008, 10:17:40 PM
Search for Saturday...

on one note about Hidden in plain view, and I spend a lot of time thinking when I started shango and when the pond was discoverd, it is in a sense hidden but it is also in plain view depend where you are looking at

When I break the news to klassend about the pond, I contacted David but it took almost 2 month to get an reaction. and lost alot of opportunity to react and at the same time Peter was saying that the case was solved.

another thing, form good source, the case will re-open, Fredy Data in the pipeline.

I jave been working on several peaces of the puzzel and maybe by friday I will a definitiv where did they go after C&C

one we got that , alot will fall in places. The two posibilities are both plausable Matty and Home, looking at it 50 - 50 one has to add an AND conditiion about the movie.

now Movie at the sloot plausable, Movie at Matty Plausable.

Now we at another AND condition and that is "Now we have a dead body" and both are plausable.

then came the desposal of the body and here is where thing can change

if They burried in the Back of the house than there was not a need to go to the pond and loose a shoe and where a withness saw you at 4.05 from his windows.

if they burried in the pond, and who ever drove you there to help him drop the body ir hid it, left joran alone there and could not get back home since he lost a shoe (only in mud you can loose a sneaker) his cloths got dirty and wet.

at exiting from the pond he could not find the return home car since it did split and since the driver did not wanted to be seen by the guards waiting for the perp.

By leaving him alone, he had no other choice to seek for his father but his father was looking for him on the main street but Joran was on the secondary road. The splitting coused him to be alone and running towards Mc donalds.

If the car did not split, they could have droven him back home and then they could have gone away with the story of dumping in the ocean.

all is documented.....
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=3390.msg470096#msg470096
 
 

BUMP

[Anna]

I was at a friend's house earlier and they had on Lifetime or LMN channel and I saw the advertisement for the Natalee Holloway movie to be aired Sunday April 19.


I expressed great interest and one of them said that was about the fifth time she had seen the ad, that they run it very often.

So it is getting a lot of publicity.

 

I missed the first part of the ad but the woman playing Beth looks fabulous and very convincing.  The only other thing I noticed was that the Kalpoes are portrayed by much better looking actors than they will ever look.

[Keepthefaith]

CAPS posted: "Me and J & W and the C's are all in agreement now that it must be there.
scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2680.560

March 17-20 Three posters from the Darkside stop posting
MF hasn't posted at RU since 3/17/08
Glenda hasn't posted at RU since 3/19/08
no updates from amigo since 3/20/08
we know John emptied everything off of the ship


March 20, 2008 - private eye posted at SM TO KYLE:
Kyl e- I emailed Beth your concerns and have suggested to her that she contact the appropriate people on the Persistence, including yourself, and attempt to reconcile as best they can the material the crew saw recovered from the cage versus what they received. I specifically mentioned the blue denim and the fact that would be the material of which the skirt was made, and reminded her that the press release said that the material did not match her blouse. I also pointed out that in the December 30 photo there appeared to be a skull and in the January 7,


Have they created the perfect cover for whatever going on in Aruba ??


 

BUMP

[Keepthefaith]

Natalee Holloway's uncle fully comprehended that trusting the enemy when seeking answers ... will not result in a positive outcome.  The enemy has a conflicting agenda.

Janet

++++++


A REMINDER

private eye
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #708 12/28
« Reply #897 on: December 30, 2007, 06:30:32 PM »   

They will have dateline onboard and I understand that they were involved in the Titantic so I assume they have the expertise to preserve any remains or artifacts and have a protocol. They can always find and locate it, call for assistance and then retrieve it. But that is my fear that they imediately turn it over to Aruba where her remains can become that of a large crab.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2481.880
 
 
private eye
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #737 2/29 -
« Reply #559 on: March 01, 2008, 04:08:07 PM »

I hope that the Persistence has not done all of this work and gone to all of this expense only to have gotten itself into an arrangement whereby Aruban divers are the ones who actually verify the targets and are the first ones to physically retrieve evidence, with no American divers physically with them. If so, all I can say is I just can't believe this has happened. But surely I am wrong.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2662.msg358435#msg358435


private eye
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #737 2/29 -
« Reply #655 on: March 01, 2008, 06:07:48 PM »
 
Either something grand has happened or something mighty dirty just happened. You don't spend that much money to identify targets that you are not going to search. Why get Beth and Dave's hopes up, find probable targets allegedly, and then go, with very little warning, oops, we cannot afford to search afterall? Why does Chaney fly in at midnight the day before the Persistence pulls out? Coincidental? Silveti and Chaney are both active in the Houston area. Bush and Silveti the same plus the same business interests. Why Ocean EX would interject himself in the cage as he did last night? Why is Joran suddenly in a mental hospital?

And now that they have identified the locations of the targets, with the Aruban police force on board, they are retiring from the search, with guess who now in the know. And what is funny, is it was Oceans Ex fear that we might give some secrets away. Hell, the coverup people already have the secrets, first hand from the horse themselves.

Something grand had to have happened. If not, then this was the cruelest hoax of yet.
 
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2662.msg358544#msg358544


private eye
Discussion #742 3/10 -
« Reply #686 on: March 13, 2008, 06:38:07 PM »

... But sharing information with people who work for people who are directly orchestrating the cover up, Rudy, or the Dutch, is the most irresponsible investigating I can imagine. What kills this investigation is people having to come into it, wanting to apply basic investigatory protocols into place, and then having those channels sabotage the new evidence that the new players discover. Of course, as is happened everytime in this case, the new people eventually come to a point where the manipulation of the evidence is undeniable, but by then the fruits of their work are gone, and there is simply another member of the believers of the cover up group. What I pray that Kyle and the crew of the Persistence will determine, is that regardless of how hard working the man that they are working with appears to work, his work belongs to Rudy, and Rudy belongs to the local dutch.

We are not hysterical, ignorant, paranoid people. We have seen the cover up in action, in broad daylight, with impunity, and if you disregard our warnings, you will become the next chump in a series of chumps, no matter how sophisticated your equipment, the level of your educational achievement, or the extent of your job skills and work history.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2689.msg364750#msg364750


private eye
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #742 3/10 -
« Reply #690 on: March 13, 2008, 06:56:18 PM »

I don't believe that Kyle or anyone else is allowed to review the case documents, according to the policy of the prosecutors office. I thought the beauty of the Persistence is that they were to do a true grid seach mission which depends not on psychics or even tips from the authorities, and as such their work would be independent of the investigation. They were there simply to attempt to search a predefined area for Natalee's remains. So I am not sure why they have been lured into defending the work of the Aruban authorities or a discussion of the validity of the investigation as they are not knowledgeable as to the investigation, other than what they have been told by these Arubans. There are an awful lot of highly educated people who have been chumped by people of far less formal education. A well trained police force is not thwarted by a grieving mother and the media.

And Kyle, I by no means am being disrespectful, I think you are brilliant, sincerely. But I don't think your education or work experience has prepared you for a cover up by these types of people. And I think you may be severely underestimating the education, experience, and wisdom of the monkeys and other coverup believers. Don't let them make a fool of you.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2689.msg364756#msg364756


private eye
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
« Reply #499 on: April 09, 2008, 12:39:50 AM »

If I understood Kyle correctly, and that would be that the Arubans retrieved and possessed all finds, not sharing anything with the crew, then that effort was a waste of time and effort. The only thing it could have accomplished was to locate additional evidence for the Arubans to destroy. I am not sure if that was the protocol out of Aruba's waters though. The effort was superb, but the game was fixed.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2769.msg372245;topicseen#msg372245

BUMP

[Keepthefaith]

Patrick Hurley's article was a beautiful tribute to Natalee Holloway's father but ... it was at the expense of discrediting her mother and ... I consider that dispicable.

Janet

Casa,as well as the others that want to post article's with the implication that Beth set the wheels in motion know exactly what they're doing!Tell me there is not a hundred other articles that could express the same view without undermining Beth Holloway,as well as her character....SHAME ON THOSE PEOPLE.....

Texasmom also posted the article here.  Are you going to attack her?  I did not read into the article what y'all are seeing. I share things all the time that I find that pertains to Natalee, the case, her family.  That does not mean that I have any malicious intent.  The people who really know me and know my heart are the ones that matter. This will be my last response to this.  I will not be drawn into this crazy feud. I hope you all have a great week end! 

Frankly, I am shocked at your audacity.

Texasmom has demonstrated her allegiance to the family of Natalee Holloway by her refusal to be sucked into hate sites, and by her refusal to say demeaning things against members behind heir backs in hidey holes.

 I can't say the same you Casa.
Janet pointed it out too.

Here is your own words in which you demonstrate your own intentions, over and over.





You do not have to like anyone, but gosh, try to at the minimum provide something that backs up your belief or agenda.

I see Idstlou time after time trying to back up her agenda with Jug said or Kyle said.
Unfortunately for her and Kyle who is feeding her the lies, at some point, this is going to be, once again, exposed along with the Leak, who is still among ya'll. So enjoy spreading your lies among each other and lying about me and other members of SM, and attacking us - a just so you can have something to do with your time. All of you, collectively are not helping Natalee nor her family. LOOK WHAT YOU HAVE DONE! All of you!

BUMP

[Anna]

I think there is more to the Alex Mathew story than any of us know.

Oduber cutting the ribbon of his new brothel is just hinky after what we
know of the prison and the telephone contract.

He is suddenly the prodigal son.

I agree! 

I've always considered Mathew a suspect or a frame job on Natalee. Either way - he's suspicious.

He was originally speaking out against all the pollution in San Nichols area and how it was going to cause all the people living there to develop cancer.

Evidently he has overcome his fear of this.

[Keepthefaith]

Mere -

For me now it's just a matter of wait and see.

I feel enough answers have been made probable, and with what we know to date - it just will take time for things to shake out.

Eyes and ears open - that's me these days. 

I was very interested to see those job openings for an Offshore company to work Aruban waters.

That one perked my ears up big time.

So I guess I'm just waiting to see how/if that all falls into place.

With Beth's movie coming out, I also feel there will be more clarification brought for many.

Thank you Jen.....

Try to see if you can find who sent CAPS
We already know that he lived in NY and went back to Aruba.
We already know he works with others in Aruba for their agenda.
Someone set this up as another cruel hoax to the family.

 

[Keepthefaith]

If standing firm in my convictions,in what i believe to be the Truth,has scared members or guests,put people on the hot seat,as well as created an us VS them mentality then i'm guilty as charged!I will not apologize for my convictions..If i'm wrong and have been inappropriate in regards to my post's i believe Klaas,as well as the other Mods will redirect me as they've done before!

In regards to productivity.I feel we've been productive many times only to be distracted by those whom we shouldn't put on the hot seat!Whatever you'd like me to research Mere i will.Give me a lead and i'm on it!

KEEPTHEFAITH

* Iris
* Sam
* Debbie

all showed up with one intent

Keep the focus off the trap/cage just like CAPS did.

Don't look into John Silvetii or Louis Schafer
Don't believe the words of Kyle Kingman
and his room mate have deceived not only us, but the family.
It cost Dave Holloway a lot of money to send Fred Golba and Rhino to Aruba.

Who sent him?
Why are these people more interested in giving out personal information rather then digging into who sent Caps and why?

 

[Anna]

KTF,

Now it is apparent why Caps a/k/a WLC needed to keep his identiry such a Top Secret.  When the truth came out that there was nothing in the pond, he didn't want anybody to know who started that whopper in the first place.

[Keepthefaith]

FACT - johann posted that Joran was in Den Dolder

No Joran is in Den Dolder  it is in the centre of Holland not far from Utrecht
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2669.msg372672#msg372672
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2669.msg372672#msg372672

FACT - johann posted that he knew Joran was in Den Dolder because he saw him

I met this boy last week in Den Dolder ,his name is Amar   ( he is also from Aruba ) and he told me that he stays in "De WIER "  that is a semi closed unit  on the Altrecht complex .
He told me also that Joran is there also .They can go outside 1 hour a day .
 this is Amar:
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2784.msg373431#msg373431


FACT - johann posted that he went to Den Dolder himself

I am going to visit Den Dolder tomorrow again 
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2784.msg374003#msg374003

FACT - johann tried to convince everyone that Joran was at Den Dolder
I think Joran is still in Den Dolder
I was there this morning and 2 people told me that Joran is there on the Roosenberg Unit .The man on the pic below told me and someone who works there.
The Roosenberg unit is not an open Unit you can see that on the 3th pic .
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2669.msg376684#msg376684

TRUTH IS WE KNEW EXACTLY WHERE JORAN WAS JOHANN WHEN YOU KEPT POSTING YOUR LIES THAT YOU SAW JORAN IN DEN DOLDER. JORAN WAS NOT IN DEN DOLDER! FACT! -

BUMP

[Keepthefaith]

KTF,

Now it is apparent why Caps a/k/a WLC needed to keep his identiry such a Top Secret.  When the truth came out that there was nothing in the pond, he didn't want anybody to know who started that whopper in the first place.

Much agreed Anna!Sorry for the bumps but thought i would get us back to where we were before the distrations occured.....

[iris44]

If standing firm in my convictions,in what i believe to be the Truth,has scared members or guests,put people on the hot seat,as well as created an us VS them mentality then i'm guilty as charged!I will not apologize for my convictions..If i'm wrong and have been inappropriate in regards to my post's i believe Klaas,as well as the other Mods will redirect me as they've done before!

In regards to productivity.I feel we've been productive many times only to be distracted by those whom we shouldn't put on the hot seat!Whatever you'd like me to research Mere i will.Give me a lead and i'm on it!

KEEPTHEFAITH

* Iris
* Sam
* Debbie

all showed up with one intent

Keep the focus off the trap/cage just like CAPS did.

Don't look into John Silvetii or Louis Schafer
Don't believe the words of Kyle Kingman
and his room mate have deceived not only us, but the family.
It cost Dave Holloway a lot of money to send Fred Golba and Rhino to Aruba.

Who sent him?
Why are these people more interested in giving out personal information rather then digging into who sent Caps and why?

This is absolutely bizarre. Speaking only for myself, you are wrong about my intent.  I don't have any intent at all.  I can think for myself.  I don't know any of those people, and I have no agenda.  I'm just stating my OPINION, just like the rest of you.  I think you are slandering people with no proof that they have done anything wrong.  Actually you aren't Kermit, you just get good intentioned Monkeys riled up, and they do the actual slandering for you.  That's pretty slick.

I've always noticed that it's the people who DO have an agenda, that are so quick to accuse other people of having an agenda. 

I do not believe Kyle.  I think he had his own agenda.  If you believe him that's fine, but in my opinion it is just awful to accuse the Persistence crew and look into people's business dealings when maybe they were really just trying to help find Natalee.  They DID search for Natalee.  Just like guy searching the pond.  He IS searching for Natalee.  I think some of the posts about him were so rude.

Note to the rest of the monkeys:  Think for yourselves.  It's the best.