Natalee Case Discussion #813 3/31/09 - 4/5/09

[Keepthefaith]

That is the most disgusting thread I have ever seen...well, ALMOST the most disgusting.
However, I would LOVE to see the leak exposed And her buddy.

They are at the root of a lot of these problems, and YES, they are both there and BOTH operating these people like puppets.
Harumph.

Well, I needed to wait until Caps and his duck buddy were finished with the pond fraud. What they did not know is that we have something that proves nothing relevant was in that pond. The pond was a diversion.
They obstructed justice - ALL OF THEM!

tick tock

BAD BOYS,BAD BOYS.WATCHA GONNA DO WHEN THEY COME FOR YOU?????

[Keepthefaith]

THE ANALYSIS

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman:  The trap was symmetrical in width and length at approximately 7.5 ft. It was approximately 2.25-2.5 ft high.  You're correct about the ROV video lens distorting perspective due to the paralax view lens. 

Kyle Kingman: I took the proportions of the body form from the head, to shoulder, to a 90 degree angle which I believed to be the hem line of Natalee's skirt. I then took those proportions and matched them to the photo of Natalee with what she was last seen wearing. The proportions matched within an inch from head, to shoulder, to skirt line. Based on this comparison and with what we believed we saw in the Dec 29th video, Tim Miller contacted the family and told them the 99.9% comment. I told Tim not to do anything until we have forensic results back after the site is processed. Jan 7th we sampled the contents and in my opinion we found the skirt under the sand along with the other items The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured. If it isn't her, it will forever haunt me as a major cosmic WTF.
 
Kyle Kingman:  This is how the Dateline episode happened:
Dateline (Tim Uelinger) had an agreement with Tim Miller to 'do a story to tell about and help promote TES and give TM recognition, and perhaps a 10 minute side-line story on Natalee along with 11 other missing persons. Dateline tagged along with TM for a while pre-NH search. They (TM and Dateline) came on the Persistence between 15-Dec and 30-Dec. I found the trap on 1:45am Christmas morning. I got the OK to begin our ROV dive series for the 29th, so I made it our first dive. We got visual of the fish trap and that it was suspicious. Basically, the fish trap door was open and there appeared to be a skull and torso-shape in sand on the door inside the trap Reviewing the 29-Dec video I noticed the torso shape in sand had a 90 degree angle and that the sand was supported from falling through the bottom of the trap, which was slightly excavated by currents. I proportioned out the distance from the top of the head, to shoulder, to that 90 degree angle and it was a match to Natalee's photo of her standing -head, to shoulder, to the end of her denim skirt. I showed TM the proportional match and the possibility of a skirt under the sand and he said he's going to tell the parents. I said definitely not until we sample the trap and get results. He made the call to Dave and Beth independently.

Kyle Kingman: The portion of the discolored blue fabric was presumably on the bottom of the fabric. In my opinion this discoloration is not another type of fabric, but rather biological staining or discoloration from biological growth caused from a high organic carbon content and decay. Basically, during decay a biological mat will form around the organics from remains. This is what I believe it is on the bottom of the fabric.

Kyle Kingman: Notice the end of the skirt is an identical match to the 90 degree angle in the sand. I believe her left arm was outstretched with her legs slightly bent. I did not edit the legs. I believe the tarp was placed over her and tucked around her, or perhaps tied down. I believe there are several rocks laying on the sand which were placed on the tarp, or inside the tarp over her body which explains their unusual location. Either way, the proportions appear promising.

Kyle Kingman: The fabric(s?) are not visible on either the Dec 29th or 30th dives. There is about an inch of sand over the fabrics. The fabrics are completely covered. The diver sampled the sand and found the fabric underneath the sand. He then bagged the blue fabric. If the other bag contains fabric, it was also in the sand. There was also something possibly recovered from far inside the trap. In the video the diver is inside the trap with just below his knees showing. I don't know what was sampled far inside the trap if anything.

Kyle Kingman: The most likely to remain at or near it's original location was the skull, which is why I was so convinced the object pictured was a skull.

Kyle Kingman: I'm sorry if this is disturbing. I took the picture of Natalee standing on the beach and cropped, rotated, and scaled the image to correlate with the trap body form. Notice the end of the skirt is an identical match to the 90 degree angle in the sand.

Kyle Kingman: In my opinion, the blue fabric is quite possibly Natalee's skirt. The divers found the denim where I suggested a week earlier (Dec 29th) to Tim Miller that there was likely Natalee's denim skirt under the sand. Also in my opinion, the deni-like fabric is a match in terms of color, quantity, and structure to Natalee's skirt. It's not a lot of denim folded in the bag, but then again her skirt was rather small.

Kyle Kingman:  The sediment in this case is fine-grained sand which is preferencially deposited to make a body form. For sand to preferentially deposit, there needs to be a lower energy state where the sand collects and stays. This can be achieved either with a shallow depression creating accomodation space and lower potential energy (not the case) or by creating small eddy currents due to surface friction. The sediment around the door area is being eroded or removed by currents. Where the body was, it is being deposited. Basically, the fabrics created enough resistence for sediment to preferentially collect on it. Further, bacterial staining due to decaying organics acts as a mild cementing agent. Combined, you will have sediment erosion around the body form and deposition on the body form which collects through time. In this case, possibly 2 1/2 years.


++++++


QUALIFICATIONS

Kyle Kingman
Geophysicist and Marine Geologist
Greater New York City Area

Current Manager at Kingman Geophysical Solutions
Past Manager at Kingman Geophysical Solutions
Education Rutgers, The State University of New Jersey-New Brunswick

Kyle Kingman’s Summary
Kyle Kingman’s Specialties:

Project Management, Sonar Acquisition, hydrographic survey, data processing, remote sensing data analysis

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/b/65/464


The Search for Natalee Holloway
Monday, November 26, 2007

I. Mobilization

Key Personnel:

<snipped>

Kyle Kingman - Field Project Manager, Geophysical Engineer and Marine Geologist - Responsible for side scan sonar acquisition, digital processing, analysis, and target identification. Kyle will assist in side scan sonar operation and guide the ROV (remotely operated vehicle) team to each sonar target.

Posted by Kyle Kingman

http://jlbworld.com/files/chapter23/sitedevotedtoseasearch.htm
http://nholloway.blogspot.com/2007/11/mobilization.html

FOR YOU IRIS44......

[Keepthefaith]

                             FROM ARUBA TO THE PERSISTENCE

         I THINK SILVETTI,SCHAEFER,TRAHAN,AS WELL AS KINGMAN SHOULD..


                       VOLUNTARILY TAKE LIE DETECTOR TESTS




                                      

WHATTA YA THINK IRIS44..SHOULD THEY???

[Keepthefaith]

Sorryy..I'm done with my Bumpin spree!

[iris44]

THE ANALYSIS

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman:  The trap was symmetrical in width and length at approximately 7.5 ft. It was approximately 2.25-2.5 ft high.  You're correct about the ROV video lens distorting perspective due to the paralax view lens. 

Kyle Kingman: I took the proportions of the body form from the head, to shoulder, to a 90 degree angle which I believed to be the hem line of Natalee's skirt. I then took those proportions and matched them to the photo of Natalee with what she was last seen wearing. The proportions matched within an inch from head, to shoulder, to skirt line. Based on this comparison and with what we believed we saw in the Dec 29th video, Tim Miller contacted the family and told them the 99.9% comment. I told Tim not to do anything until we have forensic results back after the site is processed. Jan 7th we sampled the contents and in my opinion we found the skirt under the sand along with the other items The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured. If it isn't her, it will forever haunt me as a major cosmic WTF.
 
Kyle Kingman:  This is how the Dateline episode happened:
Dateline (Tim Uelinger) had an agreement with Tim Miller to 'do a story to tell about and help promote TES and give TM recognition, and perhaps a 10 minute side-line story on Natalee along with 11 other missing persons. Dateline tagged along with TM for a while pre-NH search. They (TM and Dateline) came on the Persistence between 15-Dec and 30-Dec. I found the trap on 1:45am Christmas morning. I got the OK to begin our ROV dive series for the 29th, so I made it our first dive. We got visual of the fish trap and that it was suspicious. Basically, the fish trap door was open and there appeared to be a skull and torso-shape in sand on the door inside the trap Reviewing the 29-Dec video I noticed the torso shape in sand had a 90 degree angle and that the sand was supported from falling through the bottom of the trap, which was slightly excavated by currents. I proportioned out the distance from the top of the head, to shoulder, to that 90 degree angle and it was a match to Natalee's photo of her standing -head, to shoulder, to the end of her denim skirt. I showed TM the proportional match and the possibility of a skirt under the sand and he said he's going to tell the parents. I said definitely not until we sample the trap and get results. He made the call to Dave and Beth independently.

Kyle Kingman: The portion of the discolored blue fabric was presumably on the bottom of the fabric. In my opinion this discoloration is not another type of fabric, but rather biological staining or discoloration from biological growth caused from a high organic carbon content and decay. Basically, during decay a biological mat will form around the organics from remains. This is what I believe it is on the bottom of the fabric.

Kyle Kingman: Notice the end of the skirt is an identical match to the 90 degree angle in the sand. I believe her left arm was outstretched with her legs slightly bent. I did not edit the legs. I believe the tarp was placed over her and tucked around her, or perhaps tied down. I believe there are several rocks laying on the sand which were placed on the tarp, or inside the tarp over her body which explains their unusual location. Either way, the proportions appear promising.

Kyle Kingman: The fabric(s?) are not visible on either the Dec 29th or 30th dives. There is about an inch of sand over the fabrics. The fabrics are completely covered. The diver sampled the sand and found the fabric underneath the sand. He then bagged the blue fabric. If the other bag contains fabric, it was also in the sand. There was also something possibly recovered from far inside the trap. In the video the diver is inside the trap with just below his knees showing. I don't know what was sampled far inside the trap if anything.

Kyle Kingman: The most likely to remain at or near it's original location was the skull, which is why I was so convinced the object pictured was a skull.

Kyle Kingman: I'm sorry if this is disturbing. I took the picture of Natalee standing on the beach and cropped, rotated, and scaled the image to correlate with the trap body form. Notice the end of the skirt is an identical match to the 90 degree angle in the sand.

Kyle Kingman: In my opinion, the blue fabric is quite possibly Natalee's skirt. The divers found the denim where I suggested a week earlier (Dec 29th) to Tim Miller that there was likely Natalee's denim skirt under the sand. Also in my opinion, the deni-like fabric is a match in terms of color, quantity, and structure to Natalee's skirt. It's not a lot of denim folded in the bag, but then again her skirt was rather small.

Kyle Kingman:  The sediment in this case is fine-grained sand which is preferencially deposited to make a body form. For sand to preferentially deposit, there needs to be a lower energy state where the sand collects and stays. This can be achieved either with a shallow depression creating accomodation space and lower potential energy (not the case) or by creating small eddy currents due to surface friction. The sediment around the door area is being eroded or removed by currents. Where the body was, it is being deposited. Basically, the fabrics created enough resistence for sediment to preferentially collect on it. Further, bacterial staining due to decaying organics acts as a mild cementing agent. Combined, you will have sediment erosion around the body form and deposition on the body form which collects through time. In this case, possibly 2 1/2 years.


++++++


QUALIFICATIONS

Kyle Kingman
Geophysicist and Marine Geologist
Greater New York City Area

Current Manager at Kingman Geophysical Solutions
Past Manager at Kingman Geophysical Solutions
Education Rutgers, The State University of New Jersey-New Brunswick

Kyle Kingman’s Summary
Kyle Kingman’s Specialties:

Project Management, Sonar Acquisition, hydrographic survey, data processing, remote sensing data analysis

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/b/65/464


The Search for Natalee Holloway
Monday, November 26, 2007

I. Mobilization

Key Personnel:

<snipped>

Kyle Kingman - Field Project Manager, Geophysical Engineer and Marine Geologist - Responsible for side scan sonar acquisition, digital processing, analysis, and target identification. Kyle will assist in side scan sonar operation and guide the ROV (remotely operated vehicle) team to each sonar target.

Posted by Kyle Kingman

http://jlbworld.com/files/chapter23/sitedevotedtoseasearch.htm
http://nholloway.blogspot.com/2007/11/mobilization.html

FOR YOU IRIS44......

Thanks Janet,

You've done a great job putting all the info together and I've read it all and at first I believed Kyle, I just don't anymore.  No offense, but I think that if he had some real evidence, he would not have bothered trying to convince some internet bloggers that he had something.  In my opinion, if he had something he would have been able to sell it to an actual media person.  That he was unable to sell it, is the proof I need to form that opinion.  Perhaps my logic is flawed, but I doubt it.

[Keepthefaith]

THE ANALYSIS

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman:  The trap was symmetrical in width and length at approximately 7.5 ft. It was approximately 2.25-2.5 ft high.  You're correct about the ROV video lens distorting perspective due to the paralax view lens. 

Kyle Kingman: I took the proportions of the body form from the head, to shoulder, to a 90 degree angle which I believed to be the hem line of Natalee's skirt. I then took those proportions and matched them to the photo of Natalee with what she was last seen wearing. The proportions matched within an inch from head, to shoulder, to skirt line. Based on this comparison and with what we believed we saw in the Dec 29th video, Tim Miller contacted the family and told them the 99.9% comment. I told Tim not to do anything until we have forensic results back after the site is processed. Jan 7th we sampled the contents and in my opinion we found the skirt under the sand along with the other items The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured. If it isn't her, it will forever haunt me as a major cosmic WTF.
 
Kyle Kingman:  This is how the Dateline episode happened:
Dateline (Tim Uelinger) had an agreement with Tim Miller to 'do a story to tell about and help promote TES and give TM recognition, and perhaps a 10 minute side-line story on Natalee along with 11 other missing persons. Dateline tagged along with TM for a while pre-NH search. They (TM and Dateline) came on the Persistence between 15-Dec and 30-Dec. I found the trap on 1:45am Christmas morning. I got the OK to begin our ROV dive series for the 29th, so I made it our first dive. We got visual of the fish trap and that it was suspicious. Basically, the fish trap door was open and there appeared to be a skull and torso-shape in sand on the door inside the trap Reviewing the 29-Dec video I noticed the torso shape in sand had a 90 degree angle and that the sand was supported from falling through the bottom of the trap, which was slightly excavated by currents. I proportioned out the distance from the top of the head, to shoulder, to that 90 degree angle and it was a match to Natalee's photo of her standing -head, to shoulder, to the end of her denim skirt. I showed TM the proportional match and the possibility of a skirt under the sand and he said he's going to tell the parents. I said definitely not until we sample the trap and get results. He made the call to Dave and Beth independently.

Kyle Kingman: The portion of the discolored blue fabric was presumably on the bottom of the fabric. In my opinion this discoloration is not another type of fabric, but rather biological staining or discoloration from biological growth caused from a high organic carbon content and decay. Basically, during decay a biological mat will form around the organics from remains. This is what I believe it is on the bottom of the fabric.

Kyle Kingman: Notice the end of the skirt is an identical match to the 90 degree angle in the sand. I believe her left arm was outstretched with her legs slightly bent. I did not edit the legs. I believe the tarp was placed over her and tucked around her, or perhaps tied down. I believe there are several rocks laying on the sand which were placed on the tarp, or inside the tarp over her body which explains their unusual location. Either way, the proportions appear promising.

Kyle Kingman: The fabric(s?) are not visible on either the Dec 29th or 30th dives. There is about an inch of sand over the fabrics. The fabrics are completely covered. The diver sampled the sand and found the fabric underneath the sand. He then bagged the blue fabric. If the other bag contains fabric, it was also in the sand. There was also something possibly recovered from far inside the trap. In the video the diver is inside the trap with just below his knees showing. I don't know what was sampled far inside the trap if anything.

Kyle Kingman: The most likely to remain at or near it's original location was the skull, which is why I was so convinced the object pictured was a skull.

Kyle Kingman: I'm sorry if this is disturbing. I took the picture of Natalee standing on the beach and cropped, rotated, and scaled the image to correlate with the trap body form. Notice the end of the skirt is an identical match to the 90 degree angle in the sand.

Kyle Kingman: In my opinion, the blue fabric is quite possibly Natalee's skirt. The divers found the denim where I suggested a week earlier (Dec 29th) to Tim Miller that there was likely Natalee's denim skirt under the sand. Also in my opinion, the deni-like fabric is a match in terms of color, quantity, and structure to Natalee's skirt. It's not a lot of denim folded in the bag, but then again her skirt was rather small.

Kyle Kingman:  The sediment in this case is fine-grained sand which is preferencially deposited to make a body form. For sand to preferentially deposit, there needs to be a lower energy state where the sand collects and stays. This can be achieved either with a shallow depression creating accomodation space and lower potential energy (not the case) or by creating small eddy currents due to surface friction. The sediment around the door area is being eroded or removed by currents. Where the body was, it is being deposited. Basically, the fabrics created enough resistence for sediment to preferentially collect on it. Further, bacterial staining due to decaying organics acts as a mild cementing agent. Combined, you will have sediment erosion around the body form and deposition on the body form which collects through time. In this case, possibly 2 1/2 years.


++++++


QUALIFICATIONS

Kyle Kingman
Geophysicist and Marine Geologist
Greater New York City Area

Current Manager at Kingman Geophysical Solutions
Past Manager at Kingman Geophysical Solutions
Education Rutgers, The State University of New Jersey-New Brunswick

Kyle Kingman’s Summary
Kyle Kingman’s Specialties:

Project Management, Sonar Acquisition, hydrographic survey, data processing, remote sensing data analysis

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/b/65/464


The Search for Natalee Holloway
Monday, November 26, 2007

I. Mobilization

Key Personnel:

<snipped>

Kyle Kingman - Field Project Manager, Geophysical Engineer and Marine Geologist - Responsible for side scan sonar acquisition, digital processing, analysis, and target identification. Kyle will assist in side scan sonar operation and guide the ROV (remotely operated vehicle) team to each sonar target.

Posted by Kyle Kingman

http://jlbworld.com/files/chapter23/sitedevotedtoseasearch.htm
http://nholloway.blogspot.com/2007/11/mobilization.html

FOR YOU IRIS44......

Thanks Janet,

You've done a great job putting all the info together and I've read it all and at first I believed Kyle, I just don't anymore.  No offense, but I think that if he had some real evidence, he would not have bothered trying to convince some internet bloggers that he had something.  In my opinion, if he had something he would have been able to sell it to an actual media person.  That he was unable to sell it, is the proof I need to form that opinion.  Perhaps my logic is flawed, but I doubt it.

Are you more qualified then Kyle???

[iris44]

                             FROM ARUBA TO THE PERSISTENCE

         I THINK SILVETTI,SCHAEFER,TRAHAN,AS WELL AS KINGMAN SHOULD..


                       VOLUNTARILY TAKE LIE DETECTOR TESTS




                                      

WHATTA YA THINK IRIS44..SHOULD THEY???

No, ktf, they shouldn't.  Would you take one if some internet posters said you should?  (And your attorney will say "No", too!)   

[iris44]

THE ANALYSIS

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman:  The trap was symmetrical in width and length at approximately 7.5 ft. It was approximately 2.25-2.5 ft high.  You're correct about the ROV video lens distorting perspective due to the paralax view lens. 

Kyle Kingman: I took the proportions of the body form from the head, to shoulder, to a 90 degree angle which I believed to be the hem line of Natalee's skirt. I then took those proportions and matched them to the photo of Natalee with what she was last seen wearing. The proportions matched within an inch from head, to shoulder, to skirt line. Based on this comparison and with what we believed we saw in the Dec 29th video, Tim Miller contacted the family and told them the 99.9% comment. I told Tim not to do anything until we have forensic results back after the site is processed. Jan 7th we sampled the contents and in my opinion we found the skirt under the sand along with the other items The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured. If it isn't her, it will forever haunt me as a major cosmic WTF.
 
Kyle Kingman:  This is how the Dateline episode happened:
Dateline (Tim Uelinger) had an agreement with Tim Miller to 'do a story to tell about and help promote TES and give TM recognition, and perhaps a 10 minute side-line story on Natalee along with 11 other missing persons. Dateline tagged along with TM for a while pre-NH search. They (TM and Dateline) came on the Persistence between 15-Dec and 30-Dec. I found the trap on 1:45am Christmas morning. I got the OK to begin our ROV dive series for the 29th, so I made it our first dive. We got visual of the fish trap and that it was suspicious. Basically, the fish trap door was open and there appeared to be a skull and torso-shape in sand on the door inside the trap Reviewing the 29-Dec video I noticed the torso shape in sand had a 90 degree angle and that the sand was supported from falling through the bottom of the trap, which was slightly excavated by currents. I proportioned out the distance from the top of the head, to shoulder, to that 90 degree angle and it was a match to Natalee's photo of her standing -head, to shoulder, to the end of her denim skirt. I showed TM the proportional match and the possibility of a skirt under the sand and he said he's going to tell the parents. I said definitely not until we sample the trap and get results. He made the call to Dave and Beth independently.

Kyle Kingman: The portion of the discolored blue fabric was presumably on the bottom of the fabric. In my opinion this discoloration is not another type of fabric, but rather biological staining or discoloration from biological growth caused from a high organic carbon content and decay. Basically, during decay a biological mat will form around the organics from remains. This is what I believe it is on the bottom of the fabric.

Kyle Kingman: Notice the end of the skirt is an identical match to the 90 degree angle in the sand. I believe her left arm was outstretched with her legs slightly bent. I did not edit the legs. I believe the tarp was placed over her and tucked around her, or perhaps tied down. I believe there are several rocks laying on the sand which were placed on the tarp, or inside the tarp over her body which explains their unusual location. Either way, the proportions appear promising.

Kyle Kingman: The fabric(s?) are not visible on either the Dec 29th or 30th dives. There is about an inch of sand over the fabrics. The fabrics are completely covered. The diver sampled the sand and found the fabric underneath the sand. He then bagged the blue fabric. If the other bag contains fabric, it was also in the sand. There was also something possibly recovered from far inside the trap. In the video the diver is inside the trap with just below his knees showing. I don't know what was sampled far inside the trap if anything.

Kyle Kingman: The most likely to remain at or near it's original location was the skull, which is why I was so convinced the object pictured was a skull.

Kyle Kingman: I'm sorry if this is disturbing. I took the picture of Natalee standing on the beach and cropped, rotated, and scaled the image to correlate with the trap body form. Notice the end of the skirt is an identical match to the 90 degree angle in the sand.

Kyle Kingman: In my opinion, the blue fabric is quite possibly Natalee's skirt. The divers found the denim where I suggested a week earlier (Dec 29th) to Tim Miller that there was likely Natalee's denim skirt under the sand. Also in my opinion, the deni-like fabric is a match in terms of color, quantity, and structure to Natalee's skirt. It's not a lot of denim folded in the bag, but then again her skirt was rather small.

Kyle Kingman:  The sediment in this case is fine-grained sand which is preferencially deposited to make a body form. For sand to preferentially deposit, there needs to be a lower energy state where the sand collects and stays. This can be achieved either with a shallow depression creating accomodation space and lower potential energy (not the case) or by creating small eddy currents due to surface friction. The sediment around the door area is being eroded or removed by currents. Where the body was, it is being deposited. Basically, the fabrics created enough resistence for sediment to preferentially collect on it. Further, bacterial staining due to decaying organics acts as a mild cementing agent. Combined, you will have sediment erosion around the body form and deposition on the body form which collects through time. In this case, possibly 2 1/2 years.


++++++


QUALIFICATIONS

Kyle Kingman
Geophysicist and Marine Geologist
Greater New York City Area

Current Manager at Kingman Geophysical Solutions
Past Manager at Kingman Geophysical Solutions
Education Rutgers, The State University of New Jersey-New Brunswick

Kyle Kingman’s Summary
Kyle Kingman’s Specialties:

Project Management, Sonar Acquisition, hydrographic survey, data processing, remote sensing data analysis

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/b/65/464


The Search for Natalee Holloway
Monday, November 26, 2007

I. Mobilization

Key Personnel:

<snipped>

Kyle Kingman - Field Project Manager, Geophysical Engineer and Marine Geologist - Responsible for side scan sonar acquisition, digital processing, analysis, and target identification. Kyle will assist in side scan sonar operation and guide the ROV (remotely operated vehicle) team to each sonar target.

Posted by Kyle Kingman

http://jlbworld.com/files/chapter23/sitedevotedtoseasearch.htm
http://nholloway.blogspot.com/2007/11/mobilization.html

FOR YOU IRIS44......

Thanks Janet,

You've done a great job putting all the info together and I've read it all and at first I believed Kyle, I just don't anymore.  No offense, but I think that if he had some real evidence, he would not have bothered trying to convince some internet bloggers that he had something.  In my opinion, if he had something he would have been able to sell it to an actual media person.  That he was unable to sell it, is the proof I need to form that opinion.  Perhaps my logic is flawed, but I doubt it.

Are you more qualified then Kyle???

I'm qualified to have my own opinion, just like you are.  I stated it above, in plain English.    What I said above does not have anything to do with my qualifications vs. Kyle's.  I'm sorry if you don't understand what I am saying.

[memphis]

If standing firm in my convictions,in what i believe to be the Truth,has scared members or guests,put people on the hot seat,as well as created an us VS them mentality then i'm guilty as charged!I will not apologize for my convictions..If i'm wrong and have been inappropriate in regards to my post's i believe Klaas,as well as the other Mods will redirect me as they've done before!

In regards to productivity.I feel we've been productive many times only to be distracted by those whom we shouldn't put on the hot seat!Whatever you'd like me to research Mere i will.Give me a lead and i'm on it!

KEEPTHEFAITH

* Iris
* Sam
* Debbie

all showed up with one intent

Keep the focus off the trap/cage just like CAPS did.

Don't look into John Silvetii or Louis Schafer
Don't believe the words of Kyle Kingman
and his room mate have deceived not only us, but the family.
It cost Dave Holloway a lot of money to send Fred Golba and Rhino to Aruba.

Who sent him?
Why are these people more interested in giving out personal information rather then digging into who sent Caps and why?

This is absolutely bizarre. Speaking only for myself, you are wrong about my intent.  I don't have any intent at all.  I can think for myself.  I don't know any of those people, and I have no agenda.  I'm just stating my OPINION, just like the rest of you.  I think you are slandering people with no proof that they have done anything wrong.  Actually you aren't Kermit, you just get good intentioned Monkeys riled up, and they do the actual slandering for you.  That's pretty slick.

I've always noticed that it's the people who DO have an agenda, that are so quick to accuse other people of having an agenda. 

I do not believe Kyle.  I think he had his own agenda.  If you believe him that's fine, but in my opinion it is just awful to accuse the Persistence crew and look into people's business dealings when maybe they were really just trying to help find Natalee.  They DID search for Natalee.  Just like guy searching the pond.  He IS searching for Natalee.  I think some of the posts about him were so rude.

Note to the rest of the monkeys:  Think for yourselves.  It's the best.

It is bizarre, isn't it Iris?
Very well said while still maintaining your composure and being civil, although you will be attacked and made to look foolish.
And don't worry about the majority of posters here (or former posters) thinking for themselves. As is evident, there are only a few left posting.

[memphis]

THE ANALYSIS

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman:  The trap was symmetrical in width and length at approximately 7.5 ft. It was approximately 2.25-2.5 ft high.  You're correct about the ROV video lens distorting perspective due to the paralax view lens. 

Kyle Kingman: I took the proportions of the body form from the head, to shoulder, to a 90 degree angle which I believed to be the hem line of Natalee's skirt. I then took those proportions and matched them to the photo of Natalee with what she was last seen wearing. The proportions matched within an inch from head, to shoulder, to skirt line. Based on this comparison and with what we believed we saw in the Dec 29th video, Tim Miller contacted the family and told them the 99.9% comment. I told Tim not to do anything until we have forensic results back after the site is processed. Jan 7th we sampled the contents and in my opinion we found the skirt under the sand along with the other items The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured. If it isn't her, it will forever haunt me as a major cosmic WTF.
 
Kyle Kingman:  This is how the Dateline episode happened:
Dateline (Tim Uelinger) had an agreement with Tim Miller to 'do a story to tell about and help promote TES and give TM recognition, and perhaps a 10 minute side-line story on Natalee along with 11 other missing persons. Dateline tagged along with TM for a while pre-NH search. They (TM and Dateline) came on the Persistence between 15-Dec and 30-Dec. I found the trap on 1:45am Christmas morning. I got the OK to begin our ROV dive series for the 29th, so I made it our first dive. We got visual of the fish trap and that it was suspicious. Basically, the fish trap door was open and there appeared to be a skull and torso-shape in sand on the door inside the trap Reviewing the 29-Dec video I noticed the torso shape in sand had a 90 degree angle and that the sand was supported from falling through the bottom of the trap, which was slightly excavated by currents. I proportioned out the distance from the top of the head, to shoulder, to that 90 degree angle and it was a match to Natalee's photo of her standing -head, to shoulder, to the end of her denim skirt. I showed TM the proportional match and the possibility of a skirt under the sand and he said he's going to tell the parents. I said definitely not until we sample the trap and get results. He made the call to Dave and Beth independently.

Kyle Kingman: The portion of the discolored blue fabric was presumably on the bottom of the fabric. In my opinion this discoloration is not another type of fabric, but rather biological staining or discoloration from biological growth caused from a high organic carbon content and decay. Basically, during decay a biological mat will form around the organics from remains. This is what I believe it is on the bottom of the fabric.

Kyle Kingman: Notice the end of the skirt is an identical match to the 90 degree angle in the sand. I believe her left arm was outstretched with her legs slightly bent. I did not edit the legs. I believe the tarp was placed over her and tucked around her, or perhaps tied down. I believe there are several rocks laying on the sand which were placed on the tarp, or inside the tarp over her body which explains their unusual location. Either way, the proportions appear promising.

Kyle Kingman: The fabric(s?) are not visible on either the Dec 29th or 30th dives. There is about an inch of sand over the fabrics. The fabrics are completely covered. The diver sampled the sand and found the fabric underneath the sand. He then bagged the blue fabric. If the other bag contains fabric, it was also in the sand. There was also something possibly recovered from far inside the trap. In the video the diver is inside the trap with just below his knees showing. I don't know what was sampled far inside the trap if anything.

Kyle Kingman: The most likely to remain at or near it's original location was the skull, which is why I was so convinced the object pictured was a skull.

Kyle Kingman: I'm sorry if this is disturbing. I took the picture of Natalee standing on the beach and cropped, rotated, and scaled the image to correlate with the trap body form. Notice the end of the skirt is an identical match to the 90 degree angle in the sand.

Kyle Kingman: In my opinion, the blue fabric is quite possibly Natalee's skirt. The divers found the denim where I suggested a week earlier (Dec 29th) to Tim Miller that there was likely Natalee's denim skirt under the sand. Also in my opinion, the deni-like fabric is a match in terms of color, quantity, and structure to Natalee's skirt. It's not a lot of denim folded in the bag, but then again her skirt was rather small.

Kyle Kingman:  The sediment in this case is fine-grained sand which is preferencially deposited to make a body form. For sand to preferentially deposit, there needs to be a lower energy state where the sand collects and stays. This can be achieved either with a shallow depression creating accomodation space and lower potential energy (not the case) or by creating small eddy currents due to surface friction. The sediment around the door area is being eroded or removed by currents. Where the body was, it is being deposited. Basically, the fabrics created enough resistence for sediment to preferentially collect on it. Further, bacterial staining due to decaying organics acts as a mild cementing agent. Combined, you will have sediment erosion around the body form and deposition on the body form which collects through time. In this case, possibly 2 1/2 years.


++++++


QUALIFICATIONS

Kyle Kingman
Geophysicist and Marine Geologist
Greater New York City Area

Current Manager at Kingman Geophysical Solutions
Past Manager at Kingman Geophysical Solutions
Education Rutgers, The State University of New Jersey-New Brunswick

Kyle Kingman’s Summary
Kyle Kingman’s Specialties:

Project Management, Sonar Acquisition, hydrographic survey, data processing, remote sensing data analysis

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/b/65/464


The Search for Natalee Holloway
Monday, November 26, 2007

I. Mobilization

Key Personnel:

<snipped>

Kyle Kingman - Field Project Manager, Geophysical Engineer and Marine Geologist - Responsible for side scan sonar acquisition, digital processing, analysis, and target identification. Kyle will assist in side scan sonar operation and guide the ROV (remotely operated vehicle) team to each sonar target.

Posted by Kyle Kingman

http://jlbworld.com/files/chapter23/sitedevotedtoseasearch.htm
http://nholloway.blogspot.com/2007/11/mobilization.html

FOR YOU IRIS44......

Thanks Janet,

You've done a great job putting all the info together and I've read it all and at first I believed Kyle, I just don't anymore.  No offense, but I think that if he had some real evidence, he would not have bothered trying to convince some internet bloggers that he had something.  In my opinion, if he had something he would have been able to sell it to an actual media person.  That he was unable to sell it, is the proof I need to form that opinion.  Perhaps my logic is flawed, but I doubt it.

Sounds quite logical to me and what a breath of fresh air in here for a change. 

[iris44]

If standing firm in my convictions,in what i believe to be the Truth,has scared members or guests,put people on the hot seat,as well as created an us VS them mentality then i'm guilty as charged!I will not apologize for my convictions..If i'm wrong and have been inappropriate in regards to my post's i believe Klaas,as well as the other Mods will redirect me as they've done before!

In regards to productivity.I feel we've been productive many times only to be distracted by those whom we shouldn't put on the hot seat!Whatever you'd like me to research Mere i will.Give me a lead and i'm on it!

KEEPTHEFAITH

* Iris
* Sam
* Debbie

all showed up with one intent

Keep the focus off the trap/cage just like CAPS did.

Don't look into John Silvetii or Louis Schafer
Don't believe the words of Kyle Kingman
and his room mate have deceived not only us, but the family.
It cost Dave Holloway a lot of money to send Fred Golba and Rhino to Aruba.

Who sent him?
Why are these people more interested in giving out personal information rather then digging into who sent Caps and why?

This is absolutely bizarre. Speaking only for myself, you are wrong about my intent.  I don't have any intent at all.  I can think for myself.  I don't know any of those people, and I have no agenda.  I'm just stating my OPINION, just like the rest of you.  I think you are slandering people with no proof that they have done anything wrong.  Actually you aren't Kermit, you just get good intentioned Monkeys riled up, and they do the actual slandering for you.  That's pretty slick.

I've always noticed that it's the people who DO have an agenda, that are so quick to accuse other people of having an agenda. 

I do not believe Kyle.  I think he had his own agenda.  If you believe him that's fine, but in my opinion it is just awful to accuse the Persistence crew and look into people's business dealings when maybe they were really just trying to help find Natalee.  They DID search for Natalee.  Just like guy searching the pond.  He IS searching for Natalee.  I think some of the posts about him were so rude.

Note to the rest of the monkeys:  Think for yourselves.  It's the best.

It is bizarre, isn't it Iris?
Very well said while still maintaining your composure and being civil, although you will be attacked and made to look foolish.
And don't worry about the majority of posters here (or former posters) thinking for themselves. As is evident, there are only a few left posting.

Thanks memphis!  I really appreciate your nice comment.

[Keepthefaith]

What impeccable timing Memphis....

[Keepthefaith]

What impeccable timing Memphis....

Nice to see ya Memphis!

[memphis]

You're very welcome Iris.
Take care.

Time for me to get back to real life.
Goodnight and goodbye.   

[2NJSons_Mom]

2NJ, Hotping, Blonde, and all...

Peace be with you.






An Irish Funeral Prayer

Death is nothing at all.
It does not count.
I have only slipped away into the next room.
Everything remains as it was.
The old life that we lived so fondly together is untouched, unchanged.
Whatever we were to each other,  that we are still.
Call me by the old familiar name.
Speak of me in the easy way which you always used.
Put no sorrow in your tone.
Laugh as we always laughed at the little jokes that we enjoyed together.
Play, smile, think of me, pray for me.
Let my name be ever the household word that it always was.
Let it be spoken without  effort
Life means all that it ever meant. It is the same as it ever was.
There is unbroken continuity.
Why should I be out of mind because I am out of sight?
I am but waiting for you, for an interval, somewhere very near, just around the corner.
All is well. Nothing is hurt; nothing is lost.
One brief moment and all will be as it was before.
How we shall laugh at the trouble of parting,  when we meet again.

Thank you so much....need this...it's been tough and tonight my sis called to say her FIL passed.  I will pass on this prayer.   

[hotping]

2NJ, Hotping, Blonde, and all...

Peace be with you.






An Irish Funeral Prayer

Death is nothing at all.
It does not count.
I have only slipped away into the next room.
Everything remains as it was.
The old life that we lived so fondly together is untouched, unchanged.
Whatever we were to each other,  that we are still.
Call me by the old familiar name.
Speak of me in the easy way which you always used.
Put no sorrow in your tone.
Laugh as we always laughed at the little jokes that we enjoyed together.
Play, smile, think of me, pray for me.
Let my name be ever the household word that it always was.
Let it be spoken without  effort
Life means all that it ever meant. It is the same as it ever was.
There is unbroken continuity.
Why should I be out of mind because I am out of sight?
I am but waiting for you, for an interval, somewhere very near, just around the corner.
All is well. Nothing is hurt; nothing is lost.
One brief moment and all will be as it was before.
How we shall laugh at the trouble of parting,  when we meet again.

Lifesong...Thank You Very Much for the Beautiful Irish Prayer...It has been a tough week and I Really Appreciate Your  Thoughtfulness! 

[billb's daughter]

THE ANALYSIS

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman:  The trap was symmetrical in width and length at approximately 7.5 ft. It was approximately 2.25-2.5 ft high.  You're correct about the ROV video lens distorting perspective due to the paralax view lens. 

Kyle Kingman: I took the proportions of the body form from the head, to shoulder, to a 90 degree angle which I believed to be the hem line of Natalee's skirt. I then took those proportions and matched them to the photo of Natalee with what she was last seen wearing. The proportions matched within an inch from head, to shoulder, to skirt line. Based on this comparison and with what we believed we saw in the Dec 29th video, Tim Miller contacted the family and told them the 99.9% comment. I told Tim not to do anything until we have forensic results back after the site is processed. Jan 7th we sampled the contents and in my opinion we found the skirt under the sand along with the other items The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured. If it isn't her, it will forever haunt me as a major cosmic WTF.
 
Kyle Kingman:  This is how the Dateline episode happened:
Dateline (Tim Uelinger) had an agreement with Tim Miller to 'do a story to tell about and help promote TES and give TM recognition, and perhaps a 10 minute side-line story on Natalee along with 11 other missing persons. Dateline tagged along with TM for a while pre-NH search. They (TM and Dateline) came on the Persistence between 15-Dec and 30-Dec. I found the trap on 1:45am Christmas morning. I got the OK to begin our ROV dive series for the 29th, so I made it our first dive. We got visual of the fish trap and that it was suspicious. Basically, the fish trap door was open and there appeared to be a skull and torso-shape in sand on the door inside the trap Reviewing the 29-Dec video I noticed the torso shape in sand had a 90 degree angle and that the sand was supported from falling through the bottom of the trap, which was slightly excavated by currents. I proportioned out the distance from the top of the head, to shoulder, to that 90 degree angle and it was a match to Natalee's photo of her standing -head, to shoulder, to the end of her denim skirt. I showed TM the proportional match and the possibility of a skirt under the sand and he said he's going to tell the parents. I said definitely not until we sample the trap and get results. He made the call to Dave and Beth independently.

Kyle Kingman: The portion of the discolored blue fabric was presumably on the bottom of the fabric. In my opinion this discoloration is not another type of fabric, but rather biological staining or discoloration from biological growth caused from a high organic carbon content and decay. Basically, during decay a biological mat will form around the organics from remains. This is what I believe it is on the bottom of the fabric.

Kyle Kingman: Notice the end of the skirt is an identical match to the 90 degree angle in the sand. I believe her left arm was outstretched with her legs slightly bent. I did not edit the legs. I believe the tarp was placed over her and tucked around her, or perhaps tied down. I believe there are several rocks laying on the sand which were placed on the tarp, or inside the tarp over her body which explains their unusual location. Either way, the proportions appear promising.

Kyle Kingman: The fabric(s?) are not visible on either the Dec 29th or 30th dives. There is about an inch of sand over the fabrics. The fabrics are completely covered. The diver sampled the sand and found the fabric underneath the sand. He then bagged the blue fabric. If the other bag contains fabric, it was also in the sand. There was also something possibly recovered from far inside the trap. In the video the diver is inside the trap with just below his knees showing. I don't know what was sampled far inside the trap if anything.

Kyle Kingman: The most likely to remain at or near it's original location was the skull, which is why I was so convinced the object pictured was a skull.

Kyle Kingman: I'm sorry if this is disturbing. I took the picture of Natalee standing on the beach and cropped, rotated, and scaled the image to correlate with the trap body form. Notice the end of the skirt is an identical match to the 90 degree angle in the sand.

Kyle Kingman: In my opinion, the blue fabric is quite possibly Natalee's skirt. The divers found the denim where I suggested a week earlier (Dec 29th) to Tim Miller that there was likely Natalee's denim skirt under the sand. Also in my opinion, the deni-like fabric is a match in terms of color, quantity, and structure to Natalee's skirt. It's not a lot of denim folded in the bag, but then again her skirt was rather small.

Kyle Kingman:  The sediment in this case is fine-grained sand which is preferencially deposited to make a body form. For sand to preferentially deposit, there needs to be a lower energy state where the sand collects and stays. This can be achieved either with a shallow depression creating accomodation space and lower potential energy (not the case) or by creating small eddy currents due to surface friction. The sediment around the door area is being eroded or removed by currents. Where the body was, it is being deposited. Basically, the fabrics created enough resistence for sediment to preferentially collect on it. Further, bacterial staining due to decaying organics acts as a mild cementing agent. Combined, you will have sediment erosion around the body form and deposition on the body form which collects through time. In this case, possibly 2 1/2 years.


++++++


QUALIFICATIONS

Kyle Kingman
Geophysicist and Marine Geologist
Greater New York City Area

Current Manager at Kingman Geophysical Solutions
Past Manager at Kingman Geophysical Solutions
Education Rutgers, The State University of New Jersey-New Brunswick

Kyle Kingman’s Summary
Kyle Kingman’s Specialties:

Project Management, Sonar Acquisition, hydrographic survey, data processing, remote sensing data analysis

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/b/65/464


The Search for Natalee Holloway
Monday, November 26, 2007

I. Mobilization

Key Personnel:

<snipped>

Kyle Kingman - Field Project Manager, Geophysical Engineer and Marine Geologist - Responsible for side scan sonar acquisition, digital processing, analysis, and target identification. Kyle will assist in side scan sonar operation and guide the ROV (remotely operated vehicle) team to each sonar target.

Posted by Kyle Kingman

http://jlbworld.com/files/chapter23/sitedevotedtoseasearch.htm
http://nholloway.blogspot.com/2007/11/mobilization.html

FOR YOU IRIS44......

Thanks Janet,

You've done a great job putting all the info together and I've read it all and at first I believed Kyle, I just don't anymore.  No offense, but I think that if he had some real evidence, he would not have bothered trying to convince some internet bloggers that he had something.  In my opinion, if he had something he would have been able to sell it to an actual media person.  That he was unable to sell it, is the proof I need to form that opinion.  Perhaps my logic is flawed, but I doubt it.

Iris....Kyle sure seemed passionate about his convictions wrt the cage contents when he exposed what he felt was a cover up by aruba and john s when he was posting with freebirds. That to me seemed genuine...
You changed your opinion from first believing kyle, to not believing kyle since he couldn't sell the photos to the media.....OK...
But I'd like to point out that the photos ended up on the internet...and also add this for thought...
maybe kyle/john s/louis s.....got a BETTER deal from aruba...in the form of business that will come to those (persistence) who don't expose the coverup by the aruba divers/aruba powers that want the truth suppressed.
Whatever you chose to believe....what is on the table right now is the photos documenting cage contents (kyle's expertize claimed there were HUMAN remains in the cage). kyle went as far as to superimpose a pic of Natalee on the cage photo stating the dimensions fit Natalee's stature. kyle stated that john s dismissed the cage...even though that fish cage  with human remains were PRECISELY THE MISSION THAT THE PERSISTENCE WAS SENT TO ARUBA TO SEARCH FOR.....
so maybe because kyle couldn't sell the photos to media.....

[Keepthefaith]

THE ANALYSIS

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman:  The trap was symmetrical in width and length at approximately 7.5 ft. It was approximately 2.25-2.5 ft high.  You're correct about the ROV video lens distorting perspective due to the paralax view lens. 

Kyle Kingman: I took the proportions of the body form from the head, to shoulder, to a 90 degree angle which I believed to be the hem line of Natalee's skirt. I then took those proportions and matched them to the photo of Natalee with what she was last seen wearing. The proportions matched within an inch from head, to shoulder, to skirt line. Based on this comparison and with what we believed we saw in the Dec 29th video, Tim Miller contacted the family and told them the 99.9% comment. I told Tim not to do anything until we have forensic results back after the site is processed. Jan 7th we sampled the contents and in my opinion we found the skirt under the sand along with the other items The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured. If it isn't her, it will forever haunt me as a major cosmic WTF.
 
Kyle Kingman:  This is how the Dateline episode happened:
Dateline (Tim Uelinger) had an agreement with Tim Miller to 'do a story to tell about and help promote TES and give TM recognition, and perhaps a 10 minute side-line story on Natalee along with 11 other missing persons. Dateline tagged along with TM for a while pre-NH search. They (TM and Dateline) came on the Persistence between 15-Dec and 30-Dec. I found the trap on 1:45am Christmas morning. I got the OK to begin our ROV dive series for the 29th, so I made it our first dive. We got visual of the fish trap and that it was suspicious. Basically, the fish trap door was open and there appeared to be a skull and torso-shape in sand on the door inside the trap Reviewing the 29-Dec video I noticed the torso shape in sand had a 90 degree angle and that the sand was supported from falling through the bottom of the trap, which was slightly excavated by currents. I proportioned out the distance from the top of the head, to shoulder, to that 90 degree angle and it was a match to Natalee's photo of her standing -head, to shoulder, to the end of her denim skirt. I showed TM the proportional match and the possibility of a skirt under the sand and he said he's going to tell the parents. I said definitely not until we sample the trap and get results. He made the call to Dave and Beth independently.

Kyle Kingman: The portion of the discolored blue fabric was presumably on the bottom of the fabric. In my opinion this discoloration is not another type of fabric, but rather biological staining or discoloration from biological growth caused from a high organic carbon content and decay. Basically, during decay a biological mat will form around the organics from remains. This is what I believe it is on the bottom of the fabric.

Kyle Kingman: Notice the end of the skirt is an identical match to the 90 degree angle in the sand. I believe her left arm was outstretched with her legs slightly bent. I did not edit the legs. I believe the tarp was placed over her and tucked around her, or perhaps tied down. I believe there are several rocks laying on the sand which were placed on the tarp, or inside the tarp over her body which explains their unusual location. Either way, the proportions appear promising.

Kyle Kingman: The fabric(s?) are not visible on either the Dec 29th or 30th dives. There is about an inch of sand over the fabrics. The fabrics are completely covered. The diver sampled the sand and found the fabric underneath the sand. He then bagged the blue fabric. If the other bag contains fabric, it was also in the sand. There was also something possibly recovered from far inside the trap. In the video the diver is inside the trap with just below his knees showing. I don't know what was sampled far inside the trap if anything.

Kyle Kingman: The most likely to remain at or near it's original location was the skull, which is why I was so convinced the object pictured was a skull.

Kyle Kingman: I'm sorry if this is disturbing. I took the picture of Natalee standing on the beach and cropped, rotated, and scaled the image to correlate with the trap body form. Notice the end of the skirt is an identical match to the 90 degree angle in the sand.

Kyle Kingman: In my opinion, the blue fabric is quite possibly Natalee's skirt. The divers found the denim where I suggested a week earlier (Dec 29th) to Tim Miller that there was likely Natalee's denim skirt under the sand. Also in my opinion, the deni-like fabric is a match in terms of color, quantity, and structure to Natalee's skirt. It's not a lot of denim folded in the bag, but then again her skirt was rather small.

Kyle Kingman:  The sediment in this case is fine-grained sand which is preferencially deposited to make a body form. For sand to preferentially deposit, there needs to be a lower energy state where the sand collects and stays. This can be achieved either with a shallow depression creating accomodation space and lower potential energy (not the case) or by creating small eddy currents due to surface friction. The sediment around the door area is being eroded or removed by currents. Where the body was, it is being deposited. Basically, the fabrics created enough resistence for sediment to preferentially collect on it. Further, bacterial staining due to decaying organics acts as a mild cementing agent. Combined, you will have sediment erosion around the body form and deposition on the body form which collects through time. In this case, possibly 2 1/2 years.


++++++


QUALIFICATIONS

Kyle Kingman
Geophysicist and Marine Geologist
Greater New York City Area

Current Manager at Kingman Geophysical Solutions
Past Manager at Kingman Geophysical Solutions
Education Rutgers, The State University of New Jersey-New Brunswick

Kyle Kingman’s Summary
Kyle Kingman’s Specialties:

Project Management, Sonar Acquisition, hydrographic survey, data processing, remote sensing data analysis

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/b/65/464


The Search for Natalee Holloway
Monday, November 26, 2007

I. Mobilization

Key Personnel:

<snipped>

Kyle Kingman - Field Project Manager, Geophysical Engineer and Marine Geologist - Responsible for side scan sonar acquisition, digital processing, analysis, and target identification. Kyle will assist in side scan sonar operation and guide the ROV (remotely operated vehicle) team to each sonar target.

Posted by Kyle Kingman

http://jlbworld.com/files/chapter23/sitedevotedtoseasearch.htm
http://nholloway.blogspot.com/2007/11/mobilization.html

FOR YOU IRIS44......

Thanks Janet,

You've done a great job putting all the info together and I've read it all and at first I believed Kyle, I just don't anymore.  No offense, but I think that if he had some real evidence, he would not have bothered trying to convince some internet bloggers that he had something.  In my opinion, if he had something he would have been able to sell it to an actual media person.  That he was unable to sell it, is the proof I need to form that opinion.  Perhaps my logic is flawed, but I doubt it.

Iris....Kyle sure seemed passionate about his convictions wrt the cage contents when he exposed what he felt was a cover up by aruba and john s when he was posting with freebirds. That to me seemed genuine...
You changed your opinion from first believing kyle, to not believing kyle since he couldn't sell the photos to the media.....OK...
But I'd like to point out that the photos ended up on the internet...and also add this for thought...
maybe kyle/john s/louis s.....got a BETTER deal from aruba...in the form of business that will come to those (persistence) who don't expose the coverup by the aruba divers/aruba powers that want the truth suppressed.
Whatever you chose to believe....what is on the table right now is the photos documenting cage contents (kyle's expertize claimed there were HUMAN remains in the cage). kyle went as far as to superimpose a pic of Natalee on the cage photo stating the dimensions fit Natalee's stature. kyle stated that john s dismissed the cage...even though that fish cage  with human remains were PRECISELY THE MISSION THAT THE PERSISTENCE WAS SENT TO ARUBA TO SEARCH FOR.....
so maybe because kyle couldn't sell the photos to media.....

I will quote Memphis....

"Sounds quite logical to me and what a breath of fresh air in here for a change."

Keepthefaith couldn't have said it better himself!

[billb's daughter]

THE ANALYSIS

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman:  The trap was symmetrical in width and length at approximately 7.5 ft. It was approximately 2.25-2.5 ft high.  You're correct about the ROV video lens distorting perspective due to the paralax view lens. 

Kyle Kingman: I took the proportions of the body form from the head, to shoulder, to a 90 degree angle which I believed to be the hem line of Natalee's skirt. I then took those proportions and matched them to the photo of Natalee with what she was last seen wearing. The proportions matched within an inch from head, to shoulder, to skirt line. Based on this comparison and with what we believed we saw in the Dec 29th video, Tim Miller contacted the family and told them the 99.9% comment. I told Tim not to do anything until we have forensic results back after the site is processed. Jan 7th we sampled the contents and in my opinion we found the skirt under the sand along with the other items The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured. If it isn't her, it will forever haunt me as a major cosmic WTF.
 
Kyle Kingman:  This is how the Dateline episode happened:
Dateline (Tim Uelinger) had an agreement with Tim Miller to 'do a story to tell about and help promote TES and give TM recognition, and perhaps a 10 minute side-line story on Natalee along with 11 other missing persons. Dateline tagged along with TM for a while pre-NH search. They (TM and Dateline) came on the Persistence between 15-Dec and 30-Dec. I found the trap on 1:45am Christmas morning. I got the OK to begin our ROV dive series for the 29th, so I made it our first dive. We got visual of the fish trap and that it was suspicious. Basically, the fish trap door was open and there appeared to be a skull and torso-shape in sand on the door inside the trap Reviewing the 29-Dec video I noticed the torso shape in sand had a 90 degree angle and that the sand was supported from falling through the bottom of the trap, which was slightly excavated by currents. I proportioned out the distance from the top of the head, to shoulder, to that 90 degree angle and it was a match to Natalee's photo of her standing -head, to shoulder, to the end of her denim skirt. I showed TM the proportional match and the possibility of a skirt under the sand and he said he's going to tell the parents. I said definitely not until we sample the trap and get results. He made the call to Dave and Beth independently.

Kyle Kingman: The portion of the discolored blue fabric was presumably on the bottom of the fabric. In my opinion this discoloration is not another type of fabric, but rather biological staining or discoloration from biological growth caused from a high organic carbon content and decay. Basically, during decay a biological mat will form around the organics from remains. This is what I believe it is on the bottom of the fabric.

Kyle Kingman: Notice the end of the skirt is an identical match to the 90 degree angle in the sand. I believe her left arm was outstretched with her legs slightly bent. I did not edit the legs. I believe the tarp was placed over her and tucked around her, or perhaps tied down. I believe there are several rocks laying on the sand which were placed on the tarp, or inside the tarp over her body which explains their unusual location. Either way, the proportions appear promising.

Kyle Kingman: The fabric(s?) are not visible on either the Dec 29th or 30th dives. There is about an inch of sand over the fabrics. The fabrics are completely covered. The diver sampled the sand and found the fabric underneath the sand. He then bagged the blue fabric. If the other bag contains fabric, it was also in the sand. There was also something possibly recovered from far inside the trap. In the video the diver is inside the trap with just below his knees showing. I don't know what was sampled far inside the trap if anything.

Kyle Kingman: The most likely to remain at or near it's original location was the skull, which is why I was so convinced the object pictured was a skull.

Kyle Kingman: I'm sorry if this is disturbing. I took the picture of Natalee standing on the beach and cropped, rotated, and scaled the image to correlate with the trap body form. Notice the end of the skirt is an identical match to the 90 degree angle in the sand.

Kyle Kingman: In my opinion, the blue fabric is quite possibly Natalee's skirt. The divers found the denim where I suggested a week earlier (Dec 29th) to Tim Miller that there was likely Natalee's denim skirt under the sand. Also in my opinion, the deni-like fabric is a match in terms of color, quantity, and structure to Natalee's skirt. It's not a lot of denim folded in the bag, but then again her skirt was rather small.

Kyle Kingman:  The sediment in this case is fine-grained sand which is preferencially deposited to make a body form. For sand to preferentially deposit, there needs to be a lower energy state where the sand collects and stays. This can be achieved either with a shallow depression creating accomodation space and lower potential energy (not the case) or by creating small eddy currents due to surface friction. The sediment around the door area is being eroded or removed by currents. Where the body was, it is being deposited. Basically, the fabrics created enough resistence for sediment to preferentially collect on it. Further, bacterial staining due to decaying organics acts as a mild cementing agent. Combined, you will have sediment erosion around the body form and deposition on the body form which collects through time. In this case, possibly 2 1/2 years.


++++++


QUALIFICATIONS

Kyle Kingman
Geophysicist and Marine Geologist
Greater New York City Area

Current Manager at Kingman Geophysical Solutions
Past Manager at Kingman Geophysical Solutions
Education Rutgers, The State University of New Jersey-New Brunswick

Kyle Kingman’s Summary
Kyle Kingman’s Specialties:

Project Management, Sonar Acquisition, hydrographic survey, data processing, remote sensing data analysis

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/b/65/464


The Search for Natalee Holloway
Monday, November 26, 2007

I. Mobilization

Key Personnel:

<snipped>

Kyle Kingman - Field Project Manager, Geophysical Engineer and Marine Geologist - Responsible for side scan sonar acquisition, digital processing, analysis, and target identification. Kyle will assist in side scan sonar operation and guide the ROV (remotely operated vehicle) team to each sonar target.

Posted by Kyle Kingman

http://jlbworld.com/files/chapter23/sitedevotedtoseasearch.htm
http://nholloway.blogspot.com/2007/11/mobilization.html

FOR YOU IRIS44......

Thanks Janet,

You've done a great job putting all the info together and I've read it all and at first I believed Kyle, I just don't anymore.  No offense, but I think that if he had some real evidence, he would not have bothered trying to convince some internet bloggers that he had something.  In my opinion, if he had something he would have been able to sell it to an actual media person.  That he was unable to sell it, is the proof I need to form that opinion.  Perhaps my logic is flawed, but I doubt it.

Iris....Kyle sure seemed passionate about his convictions wrt the cage contents when he exposed what he felt was a cover up by aruba and john s when he was posting with freebirds. That to me seemed genuine...
You changed your opinion from first believing kyle, to not believing kyle since he couldn't sell the photos to the media.....OK...
But I'd like to point out that the photos ended up on the internet...and also add this for thought...
maybe kyle/john s/louis s.....got a BETTER deal from aruba...in the form of business that will come to those (persistence) who don't expose the coverup by the aruba divers/aruba powers that want the truth suppressed.
Whatever you chose to believe....what is on the table right now is the photos documenting cage contents (kyle's expertize claimed there were HUMAN remains in the cage). kyle went as far as to superimpose a pic of Natalee on the cage photo stating the dimensions fit Natalee's stature. kyle stated that john s dismissed the cage...even though that fish cage  with human remains were PRECISELY THE MISSION THAT THE PERSISTENCE WAS SENT TO ARUBA TO SEARCH FOR.....
so maybe because kyle couldn't sell the photos to media.....

I will quote Memphis....

"Sounds quite logical to me and what a breath of fresh air in here for a change."

Keepthefaith couldn't have said it better himself!

Keepthefaith...
I'll give iris a little credit in that she stated why she no longer believes kyle's own words.....
AND...she got half of it right.....Perhaps my logic is flawed, but I doubt it.
The red part seems right.....

[texasmom]

Well now isn't that special?


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