Natalee Case Discussion #813 3/31/09 - 4/5/09

[Blue Moon]

If standing firm in my convictions,in what i believe to be the Truth,has scared members or guests,put people on the hot seat,as well as created an us VS them mentality then i'm guilty as charged!I will not apologize for my convictions..If i'm wrong and have been inappropriate in regards to my post's i believe Klaas,as well as the other Mods will redirect me as they've done before!

In regards to productivity.I feel we've been productive many times only to be distracted by those whom we shouldn't put on the hot seat!Whatever you'd like me to research Mere i will.Give me a lead and i'm on it!

KEEPTHEFAITH

* Iris
* Sam
* Debbie

all showed up with one intent

Keep the focus off the trap/cage just like CAPS did.

Don't look into John Silvetii or Louis Schafer
Don't believe the words of Kyle Kingman
and his room mate have deceived not only us, but the family.
It cost Dave Holloway a lot of money to send Fred Golba and Rhino to Aruba.

Who sent him?
Why are these people more interested in giving out personal information rather then digging into who sent Caps and why?

This is absolutely bizarre. Speaking only for myself, you are wrong about my intent.  I don't have any intent at all.  I can think for myself.  I don't know any of those people, and I have no agenda.  I'm just stating my OPINION, just like the rest of you.  I think you are slandering people with no proof that they have done anything wrong.  Actually you aren't Kermit, you just get good intentioned Monkeys riled up, and they do the actual slandering for you.  That's pretty slick.

I've always noticed that it's the people who DO have an agenda, that are so quick to accuse other people of having an agenda. 

I do not believe Kyle.  I think he had his own agenda.  If you believe him that's fine, but in my opinion it is just awful to accuse the Persistence crew and look into people's business dealings when maybe they were really just trying to help find Natalee.  They DID search for Natalee.  Just like guy searching the pond.  He IS searching for Natalee.  I think some of the posts about him were so rude.

Note to the rest of the monkeys:  Think for yourselves.  It's the best.

It is bizarre, isn't it Iris?
Very well said while still maintaining your composure and being civil, although you will be attacked and made to look foolish.
And don't worry about the majority of posters here (or former posters) thinking for themselves. As is evident, there are only a few left posting.

I see I haven't missed much being away.  Same ole same ole.  Attack the posters, never attack the person who made this all occur with their own words.

[Lifesong]

Good Morning, All!

I have a couple of questions, but first....

01/07/2008
Per oceanexploration (Kyle Kingman):  "Video 3:  Jan 7th - ROV monitoring diver tactile inspection of the trap with sampling of items inside and outside of trap.  The trap was not recovered.  Recovered samples sent for forensic analysis.  Neither Tim Miller nor the media were on board."

01/22/2008
According to Mos’ statement dated 2/26/08, this is the date the FBI received the samples retrieved from the cage on 01/07, forwarded by Richardson.


01/23/2008 - NEW
HotShot quotes a post made by Robin Holloway earlier that day:

Re: Natalee Case Discussion #714 1/20 - on: January 23, 2008, 02:04:23 PM

Today at 2:34pm, Reality wrote:
Without going into detail, there has been nothing found regarding Natalee other than some Coral and Debris, I'm sure Robin will explain."

Today at 2:38pm by Robin
If the prosecutors office has evidence relating to Natalee we would have known about it. The crew on the Persistence is working very hard to try, but still nothing of her. They did have something tested that didn't turn out to be anything to do with Natalee but it has been a few weeks ago.

02/26/2008
Press Release issued from Aruba’s Public Prosecutor’s Office (H. Mos) stating that the cloth found in the crab trap is not a match with Natalee’s blouse.

Press release

Postbus 1163, Oranjestad, Aruba
Havenstraat 2
Oranjestad
Aruba
T ++ (297) 521 4100
F ++ (297) 521 4190

To All media
From The Public Prosecutor’s Office

Date February 26, 2007

Pages 1

Cloth found in crab trap not a match with sample of blouse Holloway, according to FBI Laboratory.

The Prosecutors’ Office of Aruba has received the results of the comparison tests done by the FBI Laboratory in the United States of America on clothing, cloth or a textile of some type recovered in January 2008 by an Aruban dive team inside a crab trap in about 90 feet of water, off the coast of Aruba. The Aruban dive team was directed to the crab trap by the crew of the vessel “Persistence” that is conducting a sea search looking for the body of Natalee Holloway. The Persistence is searching for a crab trap based on the story that the body of Natalee Holloway was disposed of and placed in a similar device.

The Aruban Police requested the FBI Laboratory to process the cloth, because the Laboratory already had a sample of the exact match of the type of material of Natalee Holloway’s blouse. The FBI Laboratory received that material on the 22nd of January 2008.

On the 25th of February 2008, the Prosecutors’ Office received the official report from the FBI Laboratory that showed that the two materials were not a match.

My questions:

1.  Can someone with member privileges at BNH please verify that Robin Holloway made the post that Hotshot has quoted?  I've already checked BFN and she didn't post it there.

2.  Assuming that verification exists...precisely who would have told Robin Holloway that something was tested and had nothing to do with Natalee BEFORE the items were ever received by the FBI?

There is something VERY hinky here, imo.

[Artcolley]

Art, when my Wisteria blooms, I will take a close up on the blossoms and post in musings for you to use.  Should be about another week.  Remind me if I forget.

Thank You, Anna!

[Anna]

Art, yes in the very beginning there were lots of chat sites where things were being discussed like that but once they figured out we could read there also they stopped so much chatting.

That is where lots of the early stuff came from and since none of us knew how to do screen shots, I still don't, we couldn't save the chats.  The blue girl, girl in bath tub and all that were there.  Upsetting some of it was.

But lurking in the chats was very revealing and shocking.  I was stunned that people could joke and be so mean.  Most of us have been several times in all this and have learned a great deal in almost four years, much of it not so nice to know but true.

[Artcolley]

Does anyone know what Goldba and Rhino are doing right now?  Are they searching without the aid of the unfed S&R people or did they return home?

I don't read much at the hate sites these days, no time, but has Caps given an explanation as to why apparently nothing was found in the pond? 

Long ago, I had the distinct feeling that Natalee's remains were in the hands of certain ALE members such as van der Straten who said he had seen the evidence she was no longer alive, etc.  And I know what I heard so don't anybody bother to try to "correct" me that he didn't really say that because he did and I know it.

I would still like to hear those tapes TJ Ward shared with Greta.  About the Colombians.  Maybe ROB could get TJ to send to him and he could YouTube them or something?

I remember van der Straten saying that also.

Wonder what ever did become of those tapes about the Colombians? Wonder if we'll ever get to hear them? Very curious.

[Artcolley]

Art, yes in the very beginning there were lots of chat sites where things were being discussed like that but once they figured out we could read there also they stopped so much chatting.

That is where lots of the early stuff came from and since none of us knew how to do screen shots, I still don't, we couldn't save the chats.  The blue girl, girl in bath tub and all that were there.  Upsetting some of it was.

But lurking in the chats was very revealing and shocking.  I was stunned that people could joke and be so mean.  Most of us have been several times in all this and have learned a great deal in almost four years, much of it not so nice to know but true.

I so wish I had saved some of that early stuff. Live and learn, I guess.

I never realized how many truly insane people there are in the world, lol, one lesson that is a hard one to swallow, lol

[ohcanada]

just a thought
i was just on google earth looking around and
noticed that there is a very large pond to the
south east of jorans house...it looks like the road to the
pond almost starts right at his driveway
....does anyone know if that pond was seached
...sorry if this has already been dicussed

[texasmom]

Does anyone know what Goldba and Rhino are doing right now?  Are they searching without the aid of the unfed S&R people or did they return home?

I don't read much at the hate sites these days, no time, but has Caps given an explanation as to why apparently nothing was found in the pond? 

Long ago, I had the distinct feeling that Natalee's remains were in the hands of certain ALE members such as van der Straten who said he had seen the evidence she was no longer alive, etc.  And I know what I heard so don't anybody bother to try to "correct" me that he didn't really say that because he did and I know it.

I would still like to hear those tapes TJ Ward shared with Greta.  About the Colombians.  Maybe ROB could get TJ to send to him and he could YouTube them or something?

Remember when WLC told us about the lawyer that had died after drinking the coffee?  He had supposedly gone to Holland and shared information about Natalee's case and when he returned he drank the poison coffee.  There is a case where two suspects are in jail for attempting to extort money from the deceased lawyer's family.  One of the suspects is Dennis Oduber an older man who owns a business in Aruba...I don't recall the other name right now, but Colombians was mentioned in at least one of the articles about the case.  I always think about those tapes when I come across that story.  Probably not related at all since WLC was probably just feeding us another line of crap.  But I would like to know what's on those tapes too.

[Anna]

If standing firm in my convictions,in what i believe to be the Truth,has scared members or guests,put people on the hot seat,as well as created an us VS them mentality then i'm guilty as charged!I will not apologize for my convictions..If i'm wrong and have been inappropriate in regards to my post's i believe Klaas,as well as the other Mods will redirect me as they've done before!

In regards to productivity.I feel we've been productive many times only to be distracted by those whom we shouldn't put on the hot seat!Whatever you'd like me to research Mere i will.Give me a lead and i'm on it!

KEEPTHEFAITH

* Iris
* Sam
* Debbie

all showed up with one intent

Keep the focus off the trap/cage just like CAPS did.

Don't look into John Silvetii or Louis Schafer
Don't believe the words of Kyle Kingman
and his room mate have deceived not only us, but the family.
It cost Dave Holloway a lot of money to send Fred Golba and Rhino to Aruba.

Who sent him?
Why are these people more interested in giving out personal information rather then digging into who sent Caps and why?

This is absolutely bizarre. Speaking only for myself, you are wrong about my intent.  I don't have any intent at all.  I can think for myself.  I don't know any of those people, and I have no agenda.  I'm just stating my OPINION, just like the rest of you.  I think you are slandering people with no proof that they have done anything wrong.  Actually you aren't Kermit, you just get good intentioned Monkeys riled up, and they do the actual slandering for you.  That's pretty slick.

I've always noticed that it's the people who DO have an agenda, that are so quick to accuse other people of having an agenda. 

I do not believe Kyle.  I think he had his own agenda.  If you believe him that's fine, but in my opinion it is just awful to accuse the Persistence crew and look into people's business dealings when maybe they were really just trying to help find Natalee.  They DID search for Natalee.  Just like guy searching the pond.  He IS searching for Natalee.  I think some of the posts about him were so rude.

Note to the rest of the monkeys:  Think for yourselves.  It's the best.

It is bizarre, isn't it Iris?
Very well said while still maintaining your composure and being civil, although you will be attacked and made to look foolish.
And don't worry about the majority of posters here (or former posters) thinking for themselves. As is evident, there are only a few left posting.

I see I haven't missed much being away.  Same ole same ole.  Attack the posters, never attack the person who made this all occur with their own words.

billb is going to be green with envy of my quote stack!

 


There are far more posters and readers here than at any other Natalee site. 

And yes, it would be refreshing to just once see a reponse directed at the words of Kyle Kingman, other than just disbelief because he went on far too long and much for that.  Instead, just attack the posters.  Now we don't think for ourselves? 

We are not the ones following every wacko who came along from Shango to Caps!

[Anna]

Does anyone know what Goldba and Rhino are doing right now?  Are they searching without the aid of the unfed S&R people or did they return home?

I don't read much at the hate sites these days, no time, but has Caps given an explanation as to why apparently nothing was found in the pond? 

Long ago, I had the distinct feeling that Natalee's remains were in the hands of certain ALE members such as van der Straten who said he had seen the evidence she was no longer alive, etc.  And I know what I heard so don't anybody bother to try to "correct" me that he didn't really say that because he did and I know it.

I would still like to hear those tapes TJ Ward shared with Greta.  About the Colombians.  Maybe ROB could get TJ to send to him and he could YouTube them or something?

I remember van der Straten saying that also.

Wonder what ever did become of those tapes about the Colombians? Wonder if we'll ever get to hear them? Very curious.

Yes, Art, v/d Straten said that and we heard him say that.  May have been to Karl P. of CNN.  Then later, an article was found changing what he said to "I have seen the files" or "I have seen the case" and "you haven't" totally changing the meaning of what he said.  But it was clear what he meant and what he said that he blurted out in a moment of arrogance to a reporter.  Unfortunately, that was never transcribed so only the revised later article gets quoted and used as "proof" he never said he had seen the "evidence" she was no longer alive.

Just as now the revisionists claim he also never said anything about being Joran's Godfather when two of the friends of Jug heard that one as well.

Lots of defense of v/d Straten has gone on all along as well.  Some seemed to go behind him and clean up his comments.  Make them more in confirmation with what Paulus wanted him to say.

But we know what we heard.

And that's what I think and that's what I know.

[Anna]

Does anyone know what Goldba and Rhino are doing right now?  Are they searching without the aid of the unfed S&R people or did they return home?

I don't read much at the hate sites these days, no time, but has Caps given an explanation as to why apparently nothing was found in the pond? 

Long ago, I had the distinct feeling that Natalee's remains were in the hands of certain ALE members such as van der Straten who said he had seen the evidence she was no longer alive, etc.  And I know what I heard so don't anybody bother to try to "correct" me that he didn't really say that because he did and I know it.

I would still like to hear those tapes TJ Ward shared with Greta.  About the Colombians.  Maybe ROB could get TJ to send to him and he could YouTube them or something?

Remember when WLC told us about the lawyer that had died after drinking the coffee?  He had supposedly gone to Holland and shared information about Natalee's case and when he returned he drank the poison coffee.  There is a case where two suspects are in jail for attempting to extort money from the deceased lawyer's family.  One of the suspects is Dennis Oduber an older man who owns a business in Aruba...I don't recall the other name right now, but Colombians was mentioned in at least one of the articles about the case.  I always think about those tapes when I come across that story.  Probably not related at all since WLC was probably just feeding us another line of crap.  But I would like to know what's on those tapes too.

TxMom,  I recall the lawyer and the poison coffee and the extortion but did not really connect them until you posted this.

Now I wonder what on earth they tried to extort his family about?

Yes, very curious. 

[ohcanada]

just a thought
However, Joran Van der Sloot while meeting the Mountain Brook teens at the Excelsior casino at the Holiday Inn,learned that they were going to Carlos N’ Charlie’s later that night. Joran Van der Sloot must have also learned that this was the teens last night on Aruba as well. To many boys on the island that is code for a “Shark feeding frenzy.
     
he girl then had told me that she wanted to go to the North Coast to see sharks.
 
In English I asked in general what we were going to do. She said in English that she wanted to see sharks at the "lighthouse".

In the car, the white blonde said girl said to Joran that they should go to the North side of Aruba to see sharks. Deepak decided to drive to the North side of Aruba so that the girl could see sharks.

if these posts are annoying please let me know ill stop

[Artcolley]

Yes, well, I certainly think for myself. Of course, I don't often win popularity contests, either, because of it 

I actually welcome differing ideas from others as well, as long as there are no personal attacks along with it. This is what makes for good debate (which some construe as argument)
Goodness, if anyone could hear my son and I having a heated debate, they'd think we hated each other, lol.  But, I guess that is why he is a professor and some dig ditches. However, it is very good and necessary when seeking to come to the truth of things. It also allows one to learn new things and discard old beliefs as well. In that way, we grow.
I think people resort to personal attacks when they have nothing of value to contribute. A rather child like approach of throwing ones toys around and name calling.

Everyone here seems to think for themselves. I guess if we don't agree with the fly by's versions of things, then we have no mind of our own.

Strange ways of thinking, imo, but I gave up a long time ago trying to understand it.

OT< why in the WORLD did I agree to do my husbands reports today...grrrrrr. Multi-tasking is NOT my strongest asset.

[Artcolley]

Does anyone know what Goldba and Rhino are doing right now?  Are they searching without the aid of the unfed S&R people or did they return home?

I don't read much at the hate sites these days, no time, but has Caps given an explanation as to why apparently nothing was found in the pond? 

Long ago, I had the distinct feeling that Natalee's remains were in the hands of certain ALE members such as van der Straten who said he had seen the evidence she was no longer alive, etc.  And I know what I heard so don't anybody bother to try to "correct" me that he didn't really say that because he did and I know it.

I would still like to hear those tapes TJ Ward shared with Greta.  About the Colombians.  Maybe ROB could get TJ to send to him and he could YouTube them or something?

I remember van der Straten saying that also.

Wonder what ever did become of those tapes about the Colombians? Wonder if we'll ever get to hear them? Very curious.

Yes, Art, v/d Straten said that and we heard him say that.  May have been to Karl P. of CNN.  Then later, an article was found changing what he said to "I have seen the files" or "I have seen the case" and "you haven't" totally changing the meaning of what he said.  But it was clear what he meant and what he said that he blurted out in a moment of arrogance to a reporter.  Unfortunately, that was never transcribed so only the revised later article gets quoted and used as "proof" he never said he had seen the "evidence" she was no longer alive.

Just as now the revisionists claim he also never said anything about being Joran's Godfather when two of the friends of Jug heard that one as well.

Lots of defense of v/d Straten has gone on all along as well.  Some seemed to go behind him and clean up his comments.  Make them more in confirmation with what Paulus wanted him to say.

But we know what we heard.

And that's what I think and that's what I know.

YEs, yes and YES.

[Artcolley]

just a thought
However, Joran Van der Sloot while meeting the Mountain Brook teens at the Excelsior casino at the Holiday Inn,learned that they were going to Carlos N’ Charlie’s later that night. Joran Van der Sloot must have also learned that this was the teens last night on Aruba as well. To many boys on the island that is code for a “Shark feeding frenzy.
     
he girl then had told me that she wanted to go to the North Coast to see sharks.
 
In English I asked in general what we were going to do. She said in English that she wanted to see sharks at the "lighthouse".

In the car, the white blonde said girl said to Joran that they should go to the North side of Aruba to see sharks. Deepak decided to drive to the North side of Aruba so that the girl could see sharks.

if these posts are annoying please let me know ill stop

Please continue, I am reading what you are saying. Your posts are not annoying at all 

[2NJSons_Mom]

just a thought
However, Joran Van der Sloot while meeting the Mountain Brook teens at the Excelsior casino at the Holiday Inn,learned that they were going to Carlos N’ Charlie’s later that night. Joran Van der Sloot must have also learned that this was the teens last night on Aruba as well. To many boys on the island that is code for a “Shark feeding frenzy.
     
he girl then had told me that she wanted to go to the North Coast to see sharks.
 
In English I asked in general what we were going to do. She said in English that she wanted to see sharks at the "lighthouse".

In the car, the white blonde said girl said to Joran that they should go to the North side of Aruba to see sharks. Deepak decided to drive to the North side of Aruba so that the girl could see sharks.

if these posts are annoying please let me know ill stop

ohcanada, I'm just trying to understand what point you are trying to make with this post.  I read your other one, but will have to go back and reread it. 

[Anna]

just a thought
i was just on google earth looking around and
noticed that there is a very large pond to the
south east of jorans house...it looks like the road to the
pond almost starts right at his driveway
....does anyone know if that pond was seached
...sorry if this has already been dicussed

You may be referring to the Moko pond.  I am not good with Google.
This is another sort of reservoir if that is the one you mean.  It has been used as a trash dump also.  I believe it was here that Joran is said to have thrown his own dog he killed with a paint gun.  Just as with Caylee Anthony, makes it highly logical place to look.

I also think, and someone correct me if wrong and I have the wrong drainage pont, that TES got a hit with cadaver dogs but when they tried to use sonar equipment, local and Dutch members of the press threw rocks in the pond to mess up the equipment.

To my knowledge, they did not go back as it was so full of everything from abandoned vehicles to regrigerators, etc. 

Someone else may recall it better or differently.

Just from memory.

But I always wanted it searched better, too.

And the Spanish Lagoon as well.  Now there is somewhere that would really pull off shoes.

[2NJSons_Mom]

just a thought
i was just on google earth looking around and
noticed that there is a very large pond to the
south east of jorans house...it looks like the road to the
pond almost starts right at his driveway
....does anyone know if that pond was seached
...sorry if this has already been dicussed

You may be referring to the Moko pond.  I am not good with Google.
This is another sort of reservoir if that is the one you mean.  It has been used as a trash dump also.  I believe it was here that Joran is said to have thrown his own dog he killed with a paint gun.  Just as with Caylee Anthony, makes it highly logical place to look.

I also think, and someone correct me if wrong and I have the wrong drainage pont, that TES got a hit with cadaver dogs but when they tried to use sonar equipment, local and Dutch members of the press threw rocks in the pond to mess up the equipment.

To my knowledge, they did not go back as it was so full of everything from abandoned vehicles to regrigerators, etc. 

Someone else may recall it better or differently.

Just from memory.

But I always wanted it searched better, too.

And the Spanish Lagoon as well.  Now there is somewhere that would really pull off shoes.

I don't do the Google maps often because this old computer can't handle it.  Your memory serves you well, imo, because I had forgotten about the rock throwing until you mentioned it.   

[texasmom]

Good morning Lifesong! 

I'm not a current member at BNH, but I do have some info saved in many different places.  So far I haven't found that time frame or post.  Still looking.

[texasmom]

I did come across this post, anyone know if Robin is posting there again or not?

BNH
Re: The games get old and tiresome.
Post by robin on Jul 19, 2008, 5:04pm

The games have gotten old and it is time for me to go away. I will miss you all. I guess reading the post from that SM idiot hit home. I have precious children and a DEAR husband that I need to focus on. No matter what we has done, I cannot bring Natalee back, not on the internet anyway but I will miss all the friends I have made and thank you all very much. I will stay in touch when I know anything more about Natalee's case.

You are right, the games have gotten old. Also out of hand. Hope it was worth it. Goodbye.