Lively Case Discussion #487 7/5 - 7/6/2006

[flyingmermaid]

Just an observation:

All of my neighbors teens sleep over each other's houses all the time.  None of them would consider sleeping or staying at one of their friends houses if the friend WAS NOT GOING TO BE THERE BUT AT A FAMILY REUNION/PARTY ALL NIGHT.

Maybe Freddy told Anita about Nat's panties?  Joran could have bragged to him yea - I had sex with her and Freddy said - I don't believe you, and Joran says well she had  Whatever color panties with whatever type embroidery on them. Freddy quizzes by Anita after being questioned by the cops.  Freddy changes story to no sex, nice girl.

Maybe?

[AZLady]

Thanks, Kimmy.  I would never correct anyone else's typos, as I make them myself, all too often!!     My intent is to share my thoughtful ramblings about this case and hopefully it will give others "food for thought."  I don't have any inside information or contacts--just my own logic, and the ideas I pick up in research and conversation here.  However, there are others who have information I don't know, and when we share what we know and what we've logically deduced, we can solve mysteries that one person alone might not be able to resolve.  It's all to find Natalee and help Beth and Dave bring her home.

[AZLady]

Just an observation:

All of my neighbors teens sleep over each other's houses all the time.  None of them would consider sleeping or staying at one of their friends houses if the friend WAS NOT GOING TO BE THERE BUT AT A FAMILY REUNION/PARTY ALL NIGHT.

Maybe Freddy told Anita about Nat's panties?  Joran could have bragged to him yea - I had sex with her and Freddy said - I don't believe you, and Joran says well she had  Whatever color panties with whatever type embroidery on them. Freddy quizzes by Anita after being questioned by the cops.  Freddy changes story to no sex, nice girl.

Maybe?

Mermaid, Freddy is the one who has the alibi of being at a family reunion party, but was said by Melody to have spent the night at Joran's instead.  Melody most likely said this not realizing that she was not supposed to say that, and Freddy's alibi was that he was at a family reunion party.  Melody's first mistake.  I think Joran and Freddy and the Kalpoes could have all told Anita about Natalee's panties because they all had sex with her.  I do not buy Freddy's alibi of the family reunion.  He was at Joran's place, but the police and others believe his family reunion alibi as his family is in a position to be believed.  If you know what I mean.

[Anna]

,
Klaas,
The posts on that link only go back to July 16.  I checked July 16 thru Aug 27 and nothing so I suspect you are correct that the threads were scrubbed prior to archiving.  That is why some are poste out of order and of course there at at least two completely missing.

Am looking throuigh some I saved, howeve, earlier than those.

.

[Tylergal]

LALA'S MOM

Read the post 7/5 at 2:24 p.m. in which the question about the Honda is asked.  press ctrl + F and enter Honda, and read from the first entry of Honda, through to the end.

[thirdstrike]

It does seem likely she operated with the Loco Stef crowd.  By the way, I think young Valentijn is in the US now visiting a 15 year old girl in her home, just as bro used to do.  Shameful, in my opinion.  

Do ya think Dr. Phil might have been on track there, with looking for a kidnap victim?  Hmm...everything has been very quiet on that front for a very long time.  I would not discount the idea of Joran kidnapping Natalee, three to five of them gang raping her, hurting her to the point of spilling blood, and then attempting to sell her to kidnappers.  Maybe this was the original plan that went bad after Joran's temper "damaged the goods" to the point that the sale could not be accomplished.   Maybe Paulus had some serious explaining to do in Miami when he couldn't produce the kidnapped blonde but instead a blonde was missing and presumed dead with blood in the Kalpoe car.  Bad Joran.

Did Paulus receive an automatic transmission at the bank, and he was checking on his funds to amke sure, and then the goods are damaged or dead and Paulus has to answer to someone in Florida.  Florida is mad but they are not going to pursue Paulus, only help him, because Freddy and Ernesto are involved.

BINGO!  Paulus checked his ATM balance to see if funds were transferred into it.  He may have made a minor withdrawal while there, but the point of going to the ATM at 4 am was to see if a deposit had been made.  A payment for services rendered--the kidnapping of a blonde girl.  Most likely Paulus had to send the cash back--too bad.   Yes, they will most likely give him another chance at earning his keep with Freddy and Ernesto as contacts.

Yeah, but any transactions made after bank hours wouldn't be shown on the account until the next business day...

[Tylergal]

Let's suppose that Ruben & Tito are Simian and Shango.  Let's suppose Ruben is upset with Simian and vise versa, because Ruben is being transported to the airport to hand out fliers or copies of Aruba Today, whatever.  Who is the Frenchman?  Tito Lacle.  It does not get much more French than that.

[Tylergal]

It does seem likely she operated with the Loco Stef crowd.  By the way, I think young Valentijn is in the US now visiting a 15 year old girl in her home, just as bro used to do.  Shameful, in my opinion.  

Do ya think Dr. Phil might have been on track there, with looking for a kidnap victim?  Hmm...everything has been very quiet on that front for a very long time.  I would not discount the idea of Joran kidnapping Natalee, three to five of them gang raping her, hurting her to the point of spilling blood, and then attempting to sell her to kidnappers.  Maybe this was the original plan that went bad after Joran's temper "damaged the goods" to the point that the sale could not be accomplished.   Maybe Paulus had some serious explaining to do in Miami when he couldn't produce the kidnapped blonde but instead a blonde was missing and presumed dead with blood in the Kalpoe car.  Bad Joran.

Did Paulus receive an automatic transmission at the bank, and he was checking on his funds to amke sure, and then the goods are damaged or dead and Paulus has to answer to someone in Florida.  Florida is mad but they are not going to pursue Paulus, only help him, because Freddy and Ernesto are involved.

BINGO!  Paulus checked his ATM balance to see if funds were transferred into it.  He may have made a minor withdrawal while there, but the point of going to the ATM at 4 am was to see if a deposit had been made.  A payment for services rendered--the kidnapping of a blonde girl.  Most likely Paulus had to send the cash back--too bad.   Yes, they will most likely give him another chance at earning his keep with Freddy and Ernesto as contacts.

Yeah, but any transactions made after bank hours wouldn't be shown on the account until the next business day...

Not necessarily under their banking system.  They have no checks and balances.  They are not regulated.

[Chicago_510]

Upon looking at the language choice and the phrasing, Simian is a male.  He's also an easily frustrated male.  Tito fits the bill, from my past observations.

Hi everybody.  I check in every once in a while, but have not posted in quite a while.

If you're looking into Shango and Simian's identity... If I remember correctly, I think Simian stated that he took a tour of the KIA prison when it opened.  It was part of a class trip.  I think he also stated which school he went to.  I can't remember the exact words, but from the info given and the date that the KIA prison opened, I figured that Simian was in his (her?) early 30's.  I might have the post copied somewhere, but it might take me a while to find it.

[Tylergal]

Good to see you here, Chicago.  

Is that why they were threatening each other with peanut butter and dried bread, with 8 days in the hole.

[the big hammer]

Natalee Was Kidnapped

Tylergal writes:  "...and that might have been where she was at when she made that 3 am call that let Beth know WITHOUT A DOUBT Natalee was kidnapped, or at least not with people she wanted to be with. A Twitty family friend tells me that “I don’t know these people” was the code Beth had with her kids just in case. So while Beth might not know if Natalee is still alive, she KNOWS Natalee was kidnapped that night..."

This explains the strong words of Spencer Bachus during that press conference, and further underscores why he demanded the immediate and "heavy" involvement of the FBI.  The first posters HT Family hung on the island said "KIDNAPPED".

I presume above to be true: all families in USA have coding systems designed to transfer information secretly during dire circumstances, with passwords/phrases known to only trusted few, and the children.

This is another reason for outrage re: this case: the three are obviously guilty of the crime of KIDNAPPING / ABDUCTION.  They should be arrested immediately and charged.  That Aruban authorities avoided this charge, despite likely knowing the critical information above is beyond travesty: IT IS PROOF OF INCOMPETENCE, and it is PROOF OF A COVER UP.

This information should be highlighted in news reports and made subject of front page post here at SM, imo.

Where is Gerben and mchrme to tell me now how the 3:00am call was "inconclusive?"  

WHERE'S THE KIDNAPPING CHARGES ?!?

[terryd270]

So Aruba says they have no problem, yet we read in the news they do.. IBM says that they will support OS/2 and not leave the Boca Area but a few months later they move to Austin, Texas;  Eastern Airlines says they would never declare bankruptcy but the next morning they did.  President Clinton says that he never had sex with that girl, yet a spot on the dress proved him wrong..  I guess they really do believe that the timeshares and hotels rooms are full.. I think not...  When someone tells you to trust them or that everything is fine, then you need to worry and if I was Aruba I would be very worried..

[Tylergal]

Natalee Was Kidnapped

Tylergal writes:  "...and that might have been where she was at when she made that 3 am call that let Beth know WITHOUT A DOUBT Natalee was kidnapped, or at least not with people she wanted to be with. A Twitty family friend tells me that “I don’t know these people” was the code Beth had with her kids just in case. So while Beth might not know if Natalee is still alive, she KNOWS Natalee was kidnapped that night..."

This explains the strong words of Spencer Bachus during that press conference, and further underscores why he demanded the immediate and "heavy" involvement of the FBI.  The first posters HT Family hung on the island said "KIDNAPPED".

I presume above to be true: all families in USA have coding systems designed to transfer information secretly during dire circumstances, with passwords/phrases known to only trusted few, and the children.

This is another reason for outrage re: this case: the three are obviously guilty of the crime of KIDNAPPING / ABDUCTION.  They should be arrested immediately and charged.  That Aruban authorities avoided this charge, despite likely knowing the critical information above is beyond travesty: IT IS PROOF OF INCOMPETENCE, and it is PROOF OF A COVER UP.

This information should be highlighted in news reports and made subject of front page post here at SM, imo.

Where is Gerben and mchrme to tell me now how the 3:00am call was "inconclusive?"  

WHERE'S THE KIDNAPPING CHARGES ?!?

Absolutely, Hammer.  We have had to transfer money to our kids when they were in college.  They knew where to go to get it and what the code was.  It was set up with banks in two areas, but with a truck stop in one area.  The funds could not exceed the amount we set.  Money was instant.  A 3% fee was deducted for covering it.

[klaasend]

Natalee Was Kidnapped

Tylergal writes:  "...and that might have been where she was at when she made that 3 am call that let Beth know WITHOUT A DOUBT Natalee was kidnapped, or at least not with people she wanted to be with. A Twitty family friend tells me that “I don’t know these people” was the code Beth had with her kids just in case. So while Beth might not know if Natalee is still alive, she KNOWS Natalee was kidnapped that night..."

This explains the strong words of Spencer Bachus during that press conference, and further underscores why he demanded the immediate and "heavy" involvement of the FBI.  The first posters HT Family hung on the island said "KIDNAPPED".

I presume above to be true: all families in USA have coding systems designed to transfer information secretly during dire circumstances, with passwords/phrases known to only trusted few, and the children.

This is another reason for outrage re: this case: the three are obviously guilty of the crime of KIDNAPPING / ABDUCTION.  They should be arrested immediately and charged.  That Aruban authorities avoided this charge, despite likely knowing the critical information above is beyond travesty: IT IS PROOF OF INCOMPETENCE, and it is PROOF OF A COVER UP.

This information should be highlighted in news reports and made subject of front page post here at SM, imo.

Where is Gerben and mchrme to tell me now how the 3:00am call was "inconclusive?"  

WHERE'S THE KIDNAPPING CHARGES ?!?

KJ will not charge JK2 with kidnapping because she could win.  She doesn't want to win, IMO.

[AZLady]

Strong possibility we have a kidnapping gone very wrong.  Was the something that went wrong the kidnapping and delivery of the victim?  Being a perverted egomaniacal sociopath, was is not enough for Joran to kidnap and deliver the girl, but did he have to rape her and invite his friends to rape her, also?  Did she resist them enough that they violently subdued her and then realized they had killed her?  Geez, how do they deliver a dead blonde when the contract was for a live girl?

[flyingmermaid]

Upon looking at the language choice and the phrasing, Simian is a male.  He's also an easily frustrated male.  Tito fits the bill, from my past observations.

Hi everybody.  I check in every once in a while, but have not posted in quite a while.

If you're looking into Shango and Simian's identity... If I remember correctly, I think Simian stated that he took a tour of the KIA prison when it opened.  It was part of a class trip.  I think he also stated which school he went to.  I can't remember the exact words, but from the info given and the date that the KIA prison opened, I figured that Simian was in his (her?) early 30's.  I might have the post copied somewhere, but it might take me a while to find it.

Doesn't that describe Arubagirl?

[Tylergal]

Strong possibility we have a kidnapping gone very wrong.  Was the something that went wrong the kidnapping and delivery of the victim?  Being a perverted egomaniacal sociopath, was is not enough for Joran to kidnap and deliver the girl, but did he have to rape her and invite his friends to rape her, also?  Did she resist them enough that they violently subdued her and then realized they had killed her?  Geez, how do they deliver a dead blonde when the contract was for a live girl?

I always think back on the "purple body" as posted by one of the Arubans on RWV and then the picture of the blond girl in the bathtub bleeding, where the twins are leaning over it and saying "NataleeH."  

That was the point at which I felt I coud no longer abide even the name "Joran."

Yes, I believe that is why kidnaping is off the radar:  It can be proven.  KJ just wants to take her retirement and run to the Hague where she can become a "little spoke in a big wheel."

[AZLady]

Paulus' banking activity records would tell the story.    I assume that the Aruban Prosecutor already has these.  Has she shared them with JQK?  I assume JQK can subpeona these if the court case goes forward.

[Tylergal]

Paulus' banking activity records would tell the story.    I assume that the Aruban Prosecutor already has these.  Has she shared them with JQK?  I assume JQK can subpeona these if the court case goes forward.

They are probably in that drawer with the arm bone, the dog bone, the donkey skull, the fabric, the duct tape, "blood turned chocolate" and on and on and on and on.

[Tylergal]

Upon looking at the language choice and the phrasing, Simian is a male.  He's also an easily frustrated male.  Tito fits the bill, from my past observations.

Hi everybody.  I check in every once in a while, but have not posted in quite a while.

If you're looking into Shango and Simian's identity... If I remember correctly, I think Simian stated that he took a tour of the KIA prison when it opened.  It was part of a class trip.  I think he also stated which school he went to.  I can't remember the exact words, but from the info given and the date that the KIA prison opened, I figured that Simian was in his (her?) early 30's.  I might have the post copied somewhere, but it might take me a while to find it.

Doesn't that describe Arubagirl?

I definitely believe a woman is one of these posters.