Lively Case Discussion #487 7/5 - 7/6/2006

[Tylergal]

Oh, chit.  Oil closed at more than 75. Gas could go much higher.  Little KimIl chummy with Iran and Chavez.  Three dictators closing ranks.

[Tylergal]

Let's hypothesize.  Suppose Paulus was hire to deliver a girl and his conversation at the HI was an effort to grab Natalee or one of her friends.  Suppose that fell flat.  Suppose he resorted to "Corky" and his friends to grab her, not realizing what abject failures they would be.  Paulus makes the call that the "package is on the way."  Money is transferred electronically and then all chit breaks loose because the sporter has spoiled the goods.  Paulus has to answer to some big crooks in Florida.  All these TV interviews are set up by the goon squad in order to neutralize the bad publicity but goons and their squad such as JR, CC and SC do not realize that denigrating an American girl who is "the girl next door" is not the way to neutralize it.  All has gone south from that point on.  Anita jumps in to try to absolve it and things go from bad to worse.

[Port Valerie]

Let's suppose that Ruben & Tito are Simian and Shango.  Let's suppose Ruben is upset with Simian and vise versa, because Ruben is being transported to the airport to hand out fliers or copies of Aruba Today, whatever.  Who is the Frenchman?  Tito Lacle.  It does not get much more French than that.

Tito used to post here as IamTito. He was not very articulate. English seemed to be his second language. In the quote you cite, the writer uses the word complementary correctly. That indicates that the writer is well grounded in English. Not Tito.

Also, in the cited quote, Simian says he doesn't repeat himself. Again, that's not Tito. He goes on and on and never gets to the point.

Just an observation.

[Tylergal]

Let's suppose that Ruben & Tito are Simian and Shango.  Let's suppose Ruben is upset with Simian and vise versa, because Ruben is being transported to the airport to hand out fliers or copies of Aruba Today, whatever.  Who is the Frenchman?  Tito Lacle.  It does not get much more French than that.

Tito used to post here as IamTito. He was not very articulate. English seemed to be his second language. In the quote you cite, the writer uses the word complementary correctly. That indicates that the writer is well grounded in English. Not Tito.

Also, in the cited quote, Simian says he doesn't repeat himself. Again, that's not Tito. He goes on and on and never gets to the point.

Just an observation.

Well, I could post here as "I am Tito."  That does not mean that I would be nor does it mean that Tito might not have dual personality and conceal his ability to speak English well.  Why would he apply for a job with Fox if he could not actually speak English better than what we have heard?  Compris?

[vms]

Upon looking at the language choice and the phrasing, Simian is a male.  He's also an easily frustrated male.  Tito fits the bill, from my past observations.

Hi everybody.  I check in every once in a while, but have not posted in quite a while.

If you're looking into Shango and Simian's identity... If I remember correctly, I think Simian stated that he took a tour of the KIA prison when it opened.  It was part of a class trip.  I think he also stated which school he went to.  I can't remember the exact words, but from the info given and the date that the KIA prison opened, I figured that Simian was in his (her?) early 30's.  I might have the post copied somewhere, but it might take me a while to find it.

Exactly and does not fit with the arubagirl's age, IMO...

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 11:41 am
To whoever made comment: I have taken a tour of the facility and even spent a night in there when it was inaugurated. So have everybody in my gradutating class at Colegio Arubano who wanted to participate.
http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/2005/06/21/beth-twitty-and-the-van-der-sloots-meet/#comment-20448

 
Aruba Prison (KIA), Santo di Patia
In addition, the delegation visited the former Dakota Prison, located in Oranjestad, which was taken out of service in September 1990, date of opening of the KIA. This former prison was still used, from time to time, by the police to accommodate persons detained under the Aliens legislation.
http://www.cpt.coe.int/documents/nld/1996-27-inf-eng-1.htm

[/i]

[Tylergal]

Let me also state, I can write French as well as most, but I do not speak it very well.

[NM]

From things I have saved:

>
I'm here in Aruba and yes they say that she is dead, one of them admit it.

Posted by: betje | Saturday, June 11, 2005 at 12:55 AM

I'm listen to the local radio and they sad that the body is add the canashito river here in Aruba.

Posted by: betje | Saturday, June 11, 2005 at 01:01 AM

There is an AP article on Yahoo.com news that was posted around 1:07AM that states on of the one of the 3 arrested confessed.

Posted by: NM | Saturday, June 11, 2005 at 01:10 AM

Canashito isn't a river.

Posted by: Arubano | Saturday, June 11, 2005 at 11:39 AM <


So what is this Canashito?  LOL, don't tell me it is what it sounds like phonetically, either.  

.

Hi Anna,
I had to sound it out in my head.  Too funny.  Sounds aruban for aruba !!

PS you captured my 1st ever post on any discussion board.  That was a horrible/terrible night. The 1st of so many....

Belated Happy Independence Day to my beloved Monkeys!!

[MisGivings]

One person who did NOT seem in the least intimidated by Freddie is Anita.  I believe she is the one technically who quizzed him on what the polis asked even though it was Paulus who was arrested.

Anita seemed to be supervising the posts of Melody and it was Melody only who placed Freddie in Joran's apartment.  Not only on the night Natalee disappeared but the next day even.  It was my understanding that Joran called Freddie at Joran's apartment from the tennis club and told Freddie that Natalee was missing and supposedly asked Freddie what to do.

Now I need some of you who were posting back then to verify this next part.  I remember her saying that Freddie said Joran came home early and said he had a nice time and met a nice girl and did not have sex.  I have forgotten the dates of Melody's posts and lots about them so does anybody remember this part?

The reason I say remember is because of that site owner's penchant for deleting anything that he wanted and he did one whole thread because of Melody.    Her posting style changed abruptly and started to sound just like Anita which someone pointed out and got banned for doing.  But does anybody remember Melody posting that part about nice time/no sex?  Was it Anita re-writing the events even after she discussed Natalee's underwear?  Well, if she would tell that searched property whopper, she would tell anything.  



YES, I remember the part where Joran tells Freddy, or the person who was spending the night at his apartment, that he had met a nice American girl and that they DID NOT have any sex.

.

[Port Valerie]

Well, Tito used to post here right after his Fox interviews and the board was pretty convinced it was really Tito.

If he could speak better English, the time to do it would be during a Fox prime-time interview. I can't imagine that he wouldn't be doing his very best. Surely that's not part of a conspiracy.

[San]

San wrote:

Exactly. If she goes for a charge it will be for murder. She cannot prove there was a murder. Case closed.

Realistically, she can't prove kidnapping either.  You've got witnesses from her own group that will testify she left with them willingly.  They even had a conversation with her.

With her not around to testify, there is no charge.

How about the phone call "I don't know these people".

[Tylergal]

San wrote:

Exactly. If she goes for a charge it will be for murder. She cannot prove there was a murder. Case closed.

Realistically, she can't prove kidnapping either.  You've got witnesses from her own group that will testify she left with them willingly.  They even had a conversation with her.

With her not around to testify, there is no charge.

How about the phone call "I don't know these people".

Did we hear that was code speak for "I have been kidnapped" between Natalee and her family.

[Anna]

,
MISGIVINGS,
Have been worried about you.  I am relieved to see you posting!  Hope things are better for you now.

.

[NM]

http://www.fallingrain.com/world/AA/0/Canashito.html

Canashito, Aruba:  It's a city

http://www.popularcities.com/cityguides/12113.htm
Caves of Canashito South of Hooiberg Tours available. Inquire at your hotel. Guides can point out drawings on the walls and ceiling of these unusual caves. There are giant green parakeets in the area as well.

Hey Klaas,
The k2 live near Hooiberg.

[Tylergal]

http://www.fallingrain.com/world/AA/0/Canashito.html

Canashito, Aruba:  It's a city

http://www.popularcities.com/cityguides/12113.htm
Caves of Canashito South of Hooiberg Tours available. Inquire at your hotel. Guides can point out drawings on the walls and ceiling of these unusual caves. There are giant green parakeets in the area as well.

Hey Klaas,
The k2 live near Hooiberg.

Isn't that near the location of the "Haystacks," which my grandson used to dream about was the place they took her.

[Anna]

Remember when Aruba Girl would chew me out for mentioning Giliam van der Straaten?  She said that no such person existed and that all VDStrattens children were at least thirty years old.   And all of you would scold me to be nice to our aruban
posters as they were trying to help us, etc.  

Well, then who is this:

http://connect.tickle.com/profile/index.html?id=29Zszi8OytzHQPXk

It says Giliam van der Stratten and he is aged twenty.  Now I know somebody could have made this site and it does not prove he exists but there is at least one friend and links to a high school on her site.

Interesting last name he has, at least to me.  I still think he exists and have to wonder if he is also a PIMP.

.

[Tylergal]

FOR TERRY.

I know you are always having strange critters around and I thought about you when I read this.

I woke up one morning to find a bear on my roof so I looked in the yellow pages and sure enough, there's an add for "Bear Removers." I called the number, and the bear remover says he'll be over in 30 minutes. The bear remover arrives, and gets out of his van. He's got a ladder, a baseball bat, a 50/90 Sharps rifle and a mean old pit bull.

"What are you going to do?" I asked him.

 "I'm going to put this ladder up against the roof, and then I'm going to go up there and knock the bear off the roof with this baseball bat. When the bear falls off the roof, the pit bull is trained to grab his testicles and not let go. The bear will then be subdued enough for me to put him in the cage in  
He then hands the gun to the homeowner.
 
Homeowner asks, "What do you want me to do with this?
 
 He answers, "If the bear knocks me off the roof, shoot the dog!"

[Tylergal]

Remember when Aruba Girl would chew me out for mentioning Giliam van der Straaten?  She said that no such person existed and that all VDStrattens children were at least thirty years old.   And all of you would scold me to be nice to our aruban
posters as they were trying to help us, etc.  

Well, then who is this:

http://connect.tickle.com/profile/index.html?id=29Zszi8OytzHQPXk

It says Giliam van der Stratten and he is aged twenty.  Now I know somebody could have made this site and it does not prove he exists but there is at least one friend and links to a high school on her site.

Interesting last name he has, at least to me.  I still think he exists and have to wonder if he is also a PIMP.

.

Oh, I think he does exist and I think we found him in some pictures later.  At first,  I think we thought Koen was GvdS, but later we found pictures of him.  Nadira told us already:  Big people lie.  I saw Aruba Girl's picture and I know she is a big people.

[Tylergal]

Hi NM and Misgivings.  Good to see you.

[klaasend]

Tylergal - working on a map of Canashito

[the big hammer]

ABDUCTION

Houdini writes: "...Realistically, she can't prove kidnapping either. You've got witnesses from her own group that will testify she left with them willingly. They even had a conversation with her. With her not around to testify, there is no charge..."

No, Houdini.  Not at all.

Enter the crime "Abduction by Deception".  Standard for charge IN NO WAY requires that victim enters ring of danger, willingly (or not).  You need only to think of the obvious example of the cases re: child predators who lure unwitting children into cars w/ promises of candy treats.  They enter vehicles "willingly" -- (deception).

The important piece re: classmate's testimony (Alana) is that Natalee -- outside of C&C's -- says she will be returning to the holiday inn.  That is the key to understanding her intent: Natalee thinks she's going to her hotel.

With the proof of call told and full meaning revealed, you hit standard for "false imprisonment" -- she was held against her will (whether she intended to go back to hotel or not).  That Natalee clearly was moved vehicularly, you hit standard for "asportation."

These represent minimum standards for successfully charging and prosecuting jk2 for kidnapping / abduction.