Lively Case Discussion #487 7/5 - 7/6/2006

[flyingmermaid]

I am giggling every time I read Canashito.

It is funny.

[Tylergal]

I am giggling every time I read Canashito.

It is funny.

 Nickname for the sporter.

[Tylergal]

Hammer is absolutely correct.  If kidnaping was limited by whether or not a person went willingly, then hardly any kidnaping/rape/murder could be solved/resolved because most kidnapers entice their vicitims by deceiving them about their intent.

[vms]

Remember when Aruba Girl would chew me out for mentioning Giliam van der Straaten?  She said that no such person existed and that all VDStrattens children were at least thirty years old.   And all of you would scold me to be nice to our aruban
posters as they were trying to help us, etc.  

Well, then who is this:

http://connect.tickle.com/profile/index.html?id=29Zszi8OytzHQPXk

It says Giliam van der Stratten and he is aged twenty.  Now I know somebody could have made this site and it does not prove he exists but there is at least one friend and links to a high school on her site.

Interesting last name he has, at least to me.  I still think he exists and have to wonder if he is also a PIMP.

.

For the record, I didn't scold you, Anna.  

Someone by that name does exist and Curacao is close, huh?

Curacaos kampioenschap sunfish 2001

 
Orkaan Chantal liet niet na diverse sunfish zeilers af te schrikken om deel te nemen aan dit jaarlijkse kampioenschap. Als hun absentie veroorzaakt was door de verwachting dat het wel windstil zou worden hadden ze het mis, het woei buitengewoon stevig waarbij ook zeer ervaren rotten niet gevrijwaard werden van een stukje zwemmen achter een wegdrijvende omgeslagen sunfish. Bij de start van de eerste race op zaterdag was de gedoodverfde favoriet Cor van Aanholt nog reparaties aan het uitvoeren. De 6 minuten die hij later startte maakte hij niet meer goed zodat een magere 8e plaats zijn plek werd. Aan kop vochten Niek Kort en Alex Roose het uit. Laatsgenoemde leek een veilige voorsprong te hebben maar had de pech te moeten gijpen in een windstoot van 37 knopen waardoor hij zwemmend twee boten aan zich voorbij moest laten gaan. De zondag werden eerst de altijd spectaculaire shorttrack wedsstrijden afgewerkt. Alex Roose had een vliegende start en kon tot verbazing van iedereen die voorsprong vasthouden voor de heftig aanvallende Cor van Aanholt. De tweed shortrack liet een vertrouwder beeld zien met Cor van meet af aan de leiding die hij slechts halverwege het eerste kruisrak tijdelijk even afstond. Spannender was de strijd om de 4 plaatsen daarachter: Voortdurend werd stuivertje gewisseld maar bij de finish bleef Peter Goote met een fantastische laatste stuurboord klap de concurentie voor.

Ook de lange baan s'middags was weer een waar gevecht tegen de schuimkoppen en dreigende valse gijpen met een min of meer verwachtte uitslag. De strijd in de B-klasse lijkt een prooi te gaan worden voor Giliam van der Straaten die tot nu toe alles won. De Jeugdklasse zag het met uitzondering van de dappere 40 kgr wegende Ron Bouman niet zitten zodat deze zeer talentvolle jonge sunfish zeiler aan de B-klasse is toegevoegd. In het weekend van 25 en 26 augustus worden de wedstrijden vervolgd.
<snipped>
http://www.sunfishclass.org/results/2001/2001curacao_championship.htm

[Anna]

,
FOX News, 10-1-05 Geraldo Saturday

SunMoonStars wrote:

Geraldo Sat night Oct 1

You know Geraldo, he is lying there again.
He is saying he never had sex with her, and yes he did.
In the statements, he specifically states that he had sex with my daughter at his home while she is coming in and out of consciousness.
He also admits the sexual assaults against Natalee as she is coming in and out of consciousness.
That is just simply not true. (that he didn't have sex with her)

Geraldo:
And your reaction is that he has not been charged with rape?

Beth:
I am outraged, I can't imagine that rape is not a crime within Dutch law. It has to be.

Geraldo:
He suggests in this next bite that Natalee was a loose woman, and if Joran didn't step up to the plate, it would have been some other guy at the bar.

Geraldo:
The police statements you have read, he took her back to his home. So, this sex while she is in and out of consciousness happened at his home, not the beach.

Beth:
Yes, Joran gives a statement to the police that he had sex with my daughter at his home.

Geraldo:
Is this a baloney story about the beach?

Beth:
You know Geraldo, I don't know. All we can think is maybe after they had this gang rape against my daughter at his home, then maybe they did leave her at the beach.
We don't know where they last left Natalee.

http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewtopic.php?p=236449#236449

[Houdini]

San wrote:

How about the phone call "I don't know these people".

No definitive way to prove that call was from Natalee.

[Tylergal]

,
FOX News, 10-1-05 Geraldo Saturday

SunMoonStars wrote:

Geraldo Sat night Oct 1

You know Geraldo, he is lying there again.
He is saying he never had sex with her, and yes he did.
In the statements, he specifically states that he had sex with my daughter at his home while she is coming in and out of consciousness.
He also admits the sexual assaults against Natalee as she is coming in and out of consciousness.
That is just simply not true. (that he didn't have sex with her)

Geraldo:
And your reaction is that he has not been charged with rape?

Beth:
I am outraged, I can't imagine that rape is not a crime within Dutch law. It has to be.

Geraldo:
He suggests in this next bite that Natalee was a loose woman, and if Joran didn't step up to the plate, it would have been some other guy at the bar.

Geraldo:
The police statements you have read, he took her back to his home. So, this sex while she is in and out of consciousness happened at his home, not the beach.

Beth:
Yes, Joran gives a statement to the police that he had sex with my daughter at his home.

Geraldo:
Is this a baloney story about the beach?

Beth:
You know Geraldo, I don't know. All we can think is maybe after they had this gang rape against my daughter at his home, then maybe they did leave her at the beach.
We don't know where they last left Natalee.

http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewtopic.php?p=236449#236449

That last sentece from Beth is so very sad.    

[Anna]

.
No, vms, you didn't scold me but some did.  I have those posts, too.  

But anyway, there is also a Hans van der Straaten in that article.  Maybe  old Jan is not so foolish after all and got his own kids off that sleazy place.

If course, they could be of no relationship whatsoever but why did we hear that name so early on as a friend of Joran's?  It is not as though we knew to make it up.

Will keep an eye out for more on this person as well.  Thanks for the article.

.

[Mere]

I have a lot of catching up to do....but just saying hello and seeing if I'm all dressed up....

[WidgetTheMidget]

I am giggling every time I read Canashito.

It is funny.

Canashitos Sushii Bar ...............

 

[Tylergal]

San wrote:

How about the phone call "I don't know these people".

No definitive way to prove that call was from Natalee.

There are so many wonderful ways to know or not know that nowadays.  Voice recognition is taking over the industry of dictation.  It is amazing how things can be proven.

[klaasend]

Canashito Caves:

I'm listen to the local radio and they sad that the body is add the canashito river here in Aruba.

Posted by: betje | Saturday, June 11, 2005 at 01:01 AM

There is an AP article on Yahoo.com news that was posted around 1:07AM that states on of the one of the 3 arrested confessed.

Posted by: NM | Saturday, June 11, 2005 at 01:10 AM

Canashito isn't a river.

Posted by: Arubano | Saturday, June 11, 2005 at 11:39 AM <

[Tylergal]

Thanks a bunch, Klaas.

[Houdini]

Tylergal wrote:

I know you are always having strange critters around and I thought about you when I read this.

I woke up one morning to find a bear on my roof so I looked in the yellow pages and sure enough, there's an add for "Bear Removers." I called the number, and the bear remover says he'll be over in 30 minutes. The bear remover arrives, and gets out of his van. He's got a ladder, a baseball bat, a 50/90 Sharps rifle and a mean old pit bull.

"What are you going to do?" I asked him.

"I'm going to put this ladder up against the roof, and then I'm going to go up there and knock the bear off the roof with this baseball bat. When the bear falls off the roof, the pit bull is trained to grab his testicles and not let go. The bear will then be subdued enough for me to put him in the cage in
He then hands the gun to the homeowner.

Homeowner asks, "What do you want me to do with this?

He answers, "If the bear knocks me off the roof, shoot the dog!"

It's GOOD to have a plan.  But I would make sure the gun is loaded, and this is very important, that the HOMEOWNER can shoot it.....accurately.

Hey call me a "nagging nelly" but the best laid plans.....etc!

[Anna]

.

Really close to the Spanish Lagoon, too.  

.

Why, yes MEMERE we can see you and you look very nice all dressed up.

 

[Anna]

.
I have to stop and rest my eyes for a while but while I am away I am sure you will all get to the bottom of all this Canoshito business.  

.

[klaasend]

http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/?p=1107

Riehl World is reporting that “according to unconfirmed sources the search for Natalee Holloway may be leading to the Canashito Caves area south of Hooiberg, which is the only mountain on the island, off the beaten track and reported known for a set of caves. ”

Aruba Girl: Nothing found at Canashito.

MAP

Report Prime Minister is saying CNN is not right. PM confirms information is for sale. Local media obviously cannot match the big media bids.

Radio Station Online: ArubaDag

Aruba Girl

According to the prime minister the fam. didn’t know this until they turned on CNN. The radio stations are also reporting that cops are heading to recover the remains. First it was lighthouse, then it was Bubali Plas (shallow lake), now it’s Canashito, the rock quarry.

Aruba Girl

Police Commisionary Dompig denies that he confirmed the news. He said to the AP that he could not confirm the news.

He told the local radio station that he could not confirm the news.

Local Female

The Sir Dompifg of police, which is named by acosiated press has denied to other local medias that this is the case And is calling asociated press to retract his name

Something Bad has happenned

[klaasend]

#   arubagirl  Says:
June 11th, 2005 at 1:08 am e

It seems that they are going to Canashito, which is sort of a rock quarry. During the massive search (the one where the civil servants got off), they spotted suspcious activity by a white van in the area. The cops went to check it out, but found nothing.

[Houdini]

The Big Hammer wrote:

ABDUCTION

Houdini writes: "...Realistically, she can't prove kidnapping either. You've got witnesses from her own group that will testify she left with them willingly. They even had a conversation with her. With her not around to testify, there is no charge..."

No, Houdini. Not at all.

Enter the crime "Abduction by Deception". Standard for charge IN NO WAY requires that victim enters ring of danger, willingly (or not). You need only to think of the obvious example of the cases re: child predators who lure unwitting children into cars w/ promises of candy treats. They enter vehicles "willingly" -- (deception). Obvious deception, easily proven.

The important piece re: classmate's testimony (Alana) is that Natalee -- outside of C&C's -- says she will be returning to the holiday inn. That is the key to understanding her intent: Natalee thinks she's going to her hotel. And when did Natalee think she was going to be returned to her hotel?  That then becomes the key, and that's not in evidence.
With the proof of call told and full meaning revealed, you hit standard for "false imprisonment" -- she was held against her will (whether she intended to go back to hotel or not). That Natalee clearly was moved vehicularly, you hit standard for "asportation." Is there a voice analisys that verifies the voice is Natalee's?  Without that you have no proof of false imprisonment. Even then it can be argued that some new people came to the party and that was her comment.
These represent minimum standards for successfully charging and prosecuting jk2 for kidnapping / abduction.I want these guys charged too, but there is not enough to go on.

Truth is, there is no evidence (that we are aware of) to charge them with anything.  She is just a missing person case with alot of questions not answered, damn it.   JMHO

[Shizaru]

ABDUCTION

Houdini writes: "...Realistically, she can't prove kidnapping either. You've got witnesses from her own group that will testify she left with them willingly. They even had a conversation with her. With her not around to testify, there is no charge..."

No, Houdini.  Not at all.

Enter the crime "Abduction by Deception".  Standard for charge IN NO WAY requires that victim enters ring of danger, willingly (or not).  You need only to think of the obvious example of the cases re: child predators who lure unwitting children into cars w/ promises of candy treats.  They enter vehicles "willingly" -- (deception).

The important piece re: classmate's testimony (Alana) is that Natalee -- outside of C&C's -- says she will be returning to the holiday inn.  That is the key to understanding her intent: Natalee thinks she's going to her hotel.

With the proof of call told and full meaning revealed, you hit standard for "false imprisonment" -- she was held against her will (whether she intended to go back to hotel or not).  That Natalee clearly was moved vehicularly, you hit standard for "asportation."

These represent minimum standards for successfully charging and prosecuting jk2 for kidnapping / abduction.

There isn't any evidence to support a kidnapping charge.  I wish there was, but there isn't.  Statement to Alana doesn't help much because there's no way to prove Natalee didn't change her mind about going straight back to her hotel after getting in the car.  I'm not even convinced she was kidnapped, it's possible she may have willingly gotten out with Joran at the Mariott beach, expecting only a romantic stroll in the moonlight, and if Joran then raped and murdered her there he'd be guilty of those crimes but not kidnapping.