Lively Case Discussion #487 7/5 - 7/6/2006

[thirdstrike]

I'm coming in off the bench to ask this, and please don't think I'm totally ignorant, BUT.....

I thought that Rob, a couple of months ago, after much begging and pleading from us, broke his silence on Shango and Simian by saying they are 2 guys ~ one in Florida, and the other in Aruba    

Someone, PLEASE help me out here .... I've been reading along all day, and I see where some of you say you have a good idea who these people are and then others seem to know who you're talking about......

I guess I just don't "get it" ~ maybe it's cause I don't post enough ( I'm always here reading)  
but I sure can't figure out who you're talking about ~ I feel really stupid.

Yes, Rob told us.  One is Gaib..

Whoever they are, they should both be locked up for obstruction of justice!!     They've done absolutely nothing to help this family gain closure.  And, that makes me VERY angry!!

[ala_gunslinger]

GUNSLINGER,
We are trying today to make a case for charges of kidnapping/abduction something less than murder that could be proven.  We need something concrete like that for proof Natalee was held against her will.

.

Yes, the phone call consisted of the following....

"I don't know these people!"  (you could hear the terror in her voice)

followed by a male voice

"Who are you calling?"  "You're parents?"

then the call disconnects.

[ala_gunslinger]

I'm coming in off the bench to ask this, and please don't think I'm totally ignorant, BUT.....

I thought that Rob, a couple of months ago, after much begging and pleading from us, broke his silence on Shango and Simian by saying they are 2 guys ~ one in Florida, and the other in Aruba    

Someone, PLEASE help me out here .... I've been reading along all day, and I see where some of you say you have a good idea who these people are and then others seem to know who you're talking about......

I guess I just don't "get it" ~ maybe it's cause I don't post enough ( I'm always here reading)  
but I sure can't figure out who you're talking about ~ I feel really stupid.

Yes, Rob told us.  One is Gaib..

I couldn't agree with you more.

Whoever they are, they should both be locked up for obstruction of justice!!     They've done absolutely nothing to help this family gain closure.  And, that makes me VERY angry!!

[thirdstrike]

GUNSLINGER,
We are trying today to make a case for charges of kidnapping/abduction something less than murder that could be proven.  We need something concrete like that for proof Natalee was held against her will.

.

Yes, the phone call consisted of the following....

"I don't know these people!"  (you could hear the terror in her voice)

followed by a male voice

"Who are you calling?"  "You're parents?"

then the call disconnects.

I know many people in hear treat this alleged call as gospel truth, but I have to admit to still being skeptical of it's existence...at least in it's current form (as described above). If it did, in fact, exist exactly as described, wouldn't the FBI have been able to identify the voices through testing?  And, if so, wouldn't they have a good, solid peice of evidence to use in a prosecution?

[ala_gunslinger]

Sorry 'bout the quotes!

[crazybabyborg]

GUNSLINGER,
We are trying today to make a case for charges of kidnapping/abduction something less than murder that could be proven.  We need something concrete like that for proof Natalee was held against her will.

.

Yes, the phone call consisted of the following....

"I don't know these people!"  (you could hear the terror in her voice)

followed by a male voice

"Who are you calling?"  "You're parents?"

then the call disconnects.

If this call is known fact, why hasn't there been a voice analysis? Her voice is available on videos "seat belt buckling" and one of the students has a message from her saved. I'm sure there are more. If that were proven, I would think it would be known. Am I missing something? I thought Dave said he didn't think it was Natalee.

[AZLady]

GUNSLINGER,
We are trying today to make a case for charges of kidnapping/abduction something less than murder that could be proven.  We need something concrete like that for proof Natalee was held against her will.

.

Yes, the phone call consisted of the following....

"I don't know these people!"  (you could hear the terror in her voice)

followed by a male voice

"Who are you calling?"  "You're parents?"

then the call disconnects.

I know many people in hear treat this alleged call as gospel truth, but I have to admit to still being skeptical of it's existence...at least in it's current form (as described above). If it did, in fact, exist exactly as described, wouldn't the FBI have been able to identify the voices through testing?  And, if so, wouldn't they have a good, solid peice of evidence to use in a prosecution?

Well, partner, I don't think JQK filed his suit without having a good solid piece of evidence in his back pocket.  Oh, yeah, the FBI can do that; they most certainly can.

[ala_gunslinger]

GUNSLINGER,
We are trying today to make a case for charges of kidnapping/abduction something less than murder that could be proven.  We need something concrete like that for proof Natalee was held against her will.

.

Yes, the phone call consisted of the following....

"I don't know these people!"  (you could hear the terror in her voice)

followed by a male voice

"Who are you calling?"  "You're parents?"

then the call disconnects.

I know many people in hear treat this alleged call as gospel truth, but I have to admit to still being skeptical of it's existence...at least in it's current form (as described above). If it did, in fact, exist exactly as described, wouldn't the FBI have been able to identify the voices through testing?  And, if so, wouldn't they have a good, solid peice of evidence to use in a prosecution?

Third, I am sorry you don't believe me.  But I heard it.  Believe what you want.  That is you're right.

[crazybabyborg]

It would thrill me if they can prove the voice is Natalee's. I just don't understand why they would keep it a secret. Secrecy wouldn't make it more valuable.

[thirdstrike]

Sorry 'bout the quotes!

Not a problem.  I got your message just fine.  

To elaborate, it actually angers me when it's brought up in here.  Why?  Well, they seem to be celebrated more then criticized.  Many enjoy the "mystery" surrounding their existence...and even enjoy playing their "word games".  Now, I'm no one to judge.  I respect other's right to discuss them.  But, IMO, I think their as full of crap as a Andy Gump at a Swap Meet...

[ala_gunslinger]

GUNSLINGER,
We are trying today to make a case for charges of kidnapping/abduction something less than murder that could be proven.  We need something concrete like that for proof Natalee was held against her will.

.

Yes, the phone call consisted of the following....

"I don't know these people!"  (you could hear the terror in her voice)

followed by a male voice

"Who are you calling?"  "You're parents?"

then the call disconnects.

If this call is known fact, why hasn't there been a voice analysis? Her voice is available on videos "seat belt buckling" and one of the students has a message from her saved. I'm sure there are more. If that were proven, I would think it would be known. Am I missing something? I thought Dave said he didn't think it was Natalee.

 

CBB, if you had heard it.  You would not need a voice analysis now to know who the voices belonged to.

[Terric7058]

Does anyone know how long Art Wood worked for the Secret Service? How long ago did he retire?
What branch of the Secret Service did he work in?  Did he just investigate things like bank fraud? Has he ever had any training in missing person or homicide investigations? I am curious what his qualifications are.

[AZLady]

By the way, I just visited Sitemeter, and Aruba is here.  Heeellloooo Oranjestad!!!  

[ala_gunslinger]

Sorry 'bout the quotes!

Not a problem.  I got your message just fine.  

To elaborate, it actually angers me when it's brought up in here.  Why?  Well, they seem to be celebrated more then criticized.  Many enjoy the "mystery" surrounding their existence...and even enjoy playing their "word games".  Now, I'm no one to judge.  I respect other's right to discuss them.  But, IMO, I think their as full of crap as a Andy Gump at a Swap Meet...

I don't think I brought it up.

[klaasend]

Posted at RU a while ago....

Spuds Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 5:20 pm    
Judge Kapnick's vacation

Today I noticed that she will not be on the bench the week of July 17st through the 21st. If no ruling is issued during the week before it, I think we are going to have a long, long wait.

Maybe Spuds is looking at a different calendar than I am:

 

http://tinyurl.com/rd5zn

[thirdstrike]

GUNSLINGER,
We are trying today to make a case for charges of kidnapping/abduction something less than murder that could be proven.  We need something concrete like that for proof Natalee was held against her will.

.

Yes, the phone call consisted of the following....

"I don't know these people!"  (you could hear the terror in her voice)

followed by a male voice

"Who are you calling?"  "You're parents?"

then the call disconnects.

I know many people in hear treat this alleged call as gospel truth, but I have to admit to still being skeptical of it's existence...at least in it's current form (as described above). If it did, in fact, exist exactly as described, wouldn't the FBI have been able to identify the voices through testing?  And, if so, wouldn't they have a good, solid peice of evidence to use in a prosecution?

Third, I am sorry you don't believe me.  But I heard it.  Believe what you want.  That is you're right.

Can I ask how you heard it?  And, it's not that I don't believe you did.  That's not in dispute.  I have no reason to believe you'd lie to me.  It's just that, I guess I am skeptical it's Natalee on the other end...

To ask the question again though...why hasn't there been any voice anaylsis tests done to determine it to be (without doubt)?

[crazybabyborg]

gunslinger..............I accept your representation, honest. I just know that a court proceeding would need it authenticated to accept it as her voice.

[AZLady]

Sorry 'bout the quotes!

Not a problem.  I got your message just fine.  

To elaborate, it actually angers me when it's brought up in here.  Why?  Well, they seem to be celebrated more then criticized.  Many enjoy the "mystery" surrounding their existence...and even enjoy playing their "word games".  Now, I'm no one to judge.  I respect other's right to discuss them.  But, IMO, I think their as full of crap as a Andy Gump at a Swap Meet...

XXX, I don't follow your comments.  What angers you when it's brought up here?  The call from Natalee to her mother's answering machine?  Now, you've lost me about the "mystery" surrounding someone's existence.  Do you mean the Shango/Simian thing?

[crazybabyborg]

I recall that Dave said he didn't think it was Natalee. Does anyone else remember that? I find myself having to reaffirm stuff anymore. This case has gotten long!

[mbs]

There isn't any evidence to support a kidnapping charge.  I wish there was, but there isn't.  Statement to Alana doesn't help much because there's no way to prove Natalee didn't change her mind about going straight back to her hotel after getting in the car.  I'm not even convinced she was kidnapped, it's possible she may have willingly gotten out with Joran at the Mariott beach, expecting only a romantic stroll in the moonlight, and if Joran then raped and murdered her there he'd be guilty of those crimes but not kidnapping.

I don't post very often, but statements such as the above really bother me.  The fact that Natalee told Alana she was going back to the HI is most certainly evidence that she expected to be taken back to the HI, and would be evidence of kidnapping.  It would be up to the defense to then present evidence that Natalee changed her mind, and let the trier of fact (judge or jury) decide if a kidnapping occurred.  I can't say it would be enough to convict, because I don't know much about criminal law, and of course in Aruba there is no jury, only judges, but there is certainly evidence of a kidnapping.  There's a big difference between no evidence, and possibly not enough to convict.  Whether there is enough to bring a case to trial is a subjective determination that is made by the prosecutor.  Anyway, there is evidence.