Lively Case Discussion #487 7/5 - 7/6/2006

[Anna]

Marianne Croes, the sophisticated and attractive spokesperson.

Arleen Schippers, the ......................spokesperson.

Now, straighten me out on Marianne Croes, please.  My memory is fading after all this time.  She was who's boss or daughter?  What would be her age?  What was her job at the beginning and where is she now? Thanks.

She was the spokesperson before Arlene, rather young wore glasses and was very business like but immature.  Later had a make over and improved appearance but think she always told too much so KJ replaced her with Arlene.  I have no idea where she might be now nor her exact age.  One of the very first to tell us we did not understand their system.

.

[Lala'sMom]

msmarple
I got it. Thanks!

[msmarple]

I have an additional question also.  Was Paulus still waiting to find out about his judgeship when Natalee disappeared?  I thought he knew in March, but I recall many times he was referred to as a judge in training. TIA

I wondered about that, too. I think it's likely that his failure wasn't general knowledge, and people were accustomed to thinking of him as a judge-in-training - "judge" for short.

Maybe he hadn't even told Anita; possibly waiting until the school term was over, or after her visit to the family in Holland. Then it got splashed all over the internet ...  

[oldfart]

Marianne Croes, the sophisticated and attractive spokesperson.

Arleen Schippers, the ......................spokesperson.

Now, straighten me out on Marianne Croes, please.  My memory is fading after all this time.  She was who's boss or daughter?  What would be her age?  What was her job at the beginning and where is she now? Thanks.

She was the spokesperson before Arlene, rather young wore glasses and was very business like but immature.  Later had a make over and improved appearance but think she always told too much so KJ replaced her with Arlene.  I have no idea where she might be now nor her exact age.  One of the very first to tell us we did not understand their system.

Yes... but one that came across has giving as much Factual info that she could
If anyone has a link to some of the 1st PR video out of Aruba she should be the the spokes person.

[the big hammer]

Evidence of Kidnapping / Abduction

For those still engaged...

Exactly what "constitutes" evidence of a kidnapping or abduction?

Do you know? Have you read the law?

Demand for ransom?  Eyewitness account of forced taking?  Person "missing"? For how long?  

Are you sure?  Review civil proceeding section re: "false imprisonment".  Factor in minor status in Alabama, as secondary.

The call w/ words as coded: "I don't know these people..." Female.  3:00am, 5/30/05.  Words chosen as code to her mother, her father.

KIDNAPPING / ABDUCTION !!

Try me.  Put me in front of a jury with this and signed affadavit from Beth Holloway stating voice is her daughter and code stands as stated.

20 years.  Slam dunk easy.

I would start there.  Murder next, and onto premeditation.

[wreck]

[quote="Anna
Carnut, Maryanne Croes was the daughter of her boss but was only the spokesperson for the Office of the Prosecution, before Arlene.

Assistant prosecutor who resigned last name was something like Flanegan  or Flanigin?  

.

Alamin Flanegan (sic)

Right and Dave says in his book that it was because ALE refused to question Koen.  His father was allowed to go to answer questions for him.  So why didn't KJ back her up?  Same reason she didn't try harder to get the search warrant for the sloots?  Further proof that it is  KJ who can order things done by the ALE.  


Tyler, do not type while getting an IV will back it up and make your vein irritated.  

.

Think I'm pretty much on board with KJ being part of the problem.[/quote]
There is NO question she is part of the problem -- the question is whether she is  leading the cover-up or whether she simply doesn't have the spine/intellect to KNOW she is part of the problem. I think she is being led around by the nose by those that HAVE tocover this up!

[Lala'sMom]

So, what was Marianne's parent's name that was KJ boss?  Anyone?  Would you say she was about 26-28 years old? Anyone?


Also this prosecutor resigned when?  When was Koen's dad questioned?

[Lala'sMom]

Evidence of Kidnapping / Abduction

For those still engaged...

Exactly what "constitutes" evidence of a kidnapping or abduction?

Do you know? Have you read the law?

Demand for ransom?  Eyewitness account of forced taking?  Person "missing"? For how long?  

Are you sure?  Review civil proceeding section re: "false imprisonment".  Factor in minor status in Alabama, as secondary.

The call w/ words as coded: "I don't know these people..." Female.  3:00am, 5/30/05.  Words chosen as code to her mother, her father.

KIDNAPPING / ABDUCTION !!

Try me.  Put me in front of a jury with this and signed affadavit from Beth Holloway stating voice is her daughter and code stands as stated.

20 years.  Slam dunk easy.

I would start there.  Murder next, and onto premeditation.

Yes, she was kidnapped.  That is the reason nobody will ever prosecuted for that crime.  Way too easy to prove at this point.  Then again, do they really want to prosecute for a crime that is a slam dunk??  Not likely.  Unless the pot is stirred regularly, nothing is going to happen.  I predicted this in one of the very first posts on this forum.  Too bad I don't have a copy of it.

[Tylergal]

I have an additional question also.  Was Paulus still waiting to find out about his judgeship when Natalee disappeared?  I thought he knew in March, but I recall many times he was referred to as a judge in training. TIA

No, he knew that in march about the time the sporter was accosting spring vacationers.  oK, anna, i'm through.

[Anna]

[
Think I'm pretty much on board with KJ being part of the problem.

I hate to even think it but there is no way I can get around the fact that she has done more to stall and prevent the investigation than anyone else. Mostly Acts of omission, too rather than anything she actually does.

Does not bode well for a case going forward to court.

 

[klaasend]

HAMMER - who signed the papers to arrest the security guards instead of JK2?  Who's in charge of the police?  Who decides what evidence goes to the judge?

I know the answer, I just like your presentions better than mine.

[msmarple]

Hi Big Hammer - of eternal Signature Quest:

I am following your presention closely.

But I'm also vaguely remembering something that was stated earlier about charges. They can bring charges down, but can't bring them up.

E.g., if they charge with kidnapping, they can't add a murder charge later. But, if they charge murder, they can later add kidnapping.

Or something like that.

But all facts considered, a conviction for kidnapping would be SOMETHING, which would be better than NOTHING.

Are you pretty confident about this coded message, and that it was indeed NH calling? Which call was this?

In Dave's book, as I recall, he pretty much dismisses all phone calls ... although if that ONE is for real, possibly nobody wants to talk about it yet.

[oldfart]

So, what was Marianne's parent's name that was KJ boss?  Anyone?  Would you say she was about 26-28 years old? Anyone?


Also this prosecutor resigned when?  When was Koen's dad questioned?

Lala's
I was going to post something kinda pointed about you being busy with your over the holliday weekend thinking up questions to ask.
but the more I reflect on what I remember seeing out hear to day.. in the way of questions I wonder if DANA could get a Rep/ Senator on his show..   He met with the delegation from Aruba and seemed content with their efforts.  Has his view changed?
Just Wondering

[klaasend]

Hi Big Hammer - of eternal Signature Quest:

I am following your presention closely.

But I'm also vaguely remembering something that was stated earlier about charges. They can bring charges down, but can't bring them up.

E.g., if they charge with kidnapping, they can't add a murder charge later. But, if they charge murder, they can later add kidnapping.

Or something like that.

But all facts considered, a conviction for kidnapping would be SOMETHING, which would be better than NOTHING.

Are you pretty confident about this coded message, and that it was indeed NH calling? Which call was this?

In Dave's book, as I recall, he pretty much dismisses all phone calls ... although if that ONE is for real, possibly nobody wants to talk about it yet.

This is true however, if they can prove kidnapping now and get a conviction they should do it.  They can retry if a body or other evidence turns up indicating murder.

[Lala'sMom]

Old Fart
Dana could try to get an interview with Bacchus. He is up for reelection.  Maybe all of us Alabama monkeys could call in. It would be his constituents asking the questions then.

[Carnut]

Heh, Heh, looks like Greta needed a London vacation.

[the big hammer]

WHO Signed Those Papers?

Whose name is signatory on papers authorizing arrest of Mickey Johns and Abraham Jones?

Who stood on the stoop of their homes at dawn in Saint Nicolas on June 5, 2005 as these two men were dragged handcuffed from their beds in their underwear?

Who signed those papers?

Who signed the papers accepting words of kalpoe and sloot as WITNESS to effect arrest of these two men?

Did Abraham Jones and Mickey Johns ABDUCT AND KIDNAP Natalee Ann Holloway?

Does fat boy Jan van der Straaten and wimp girl Karin Jannsen think the world does not see or know?  

Dirty cops with dirty hands staring at a Failure to Perform charge, dereliction of duty, obstruction...

Where's the KIDNAPPING CHARGE?

[oldfart]

Hi Big Hammer - of eternal Signature Quest:

I am following your presention closely.

But I'm also vaguely remembering something that was stated earlier about charges. They can bring charges down, but can't bring them up.

E.g., if they charge with kidnapping, they can't add a murder charge later. But, if they charge murder, they can later add kidnapping.

Or something like that.

But all facts considered, a conviction for kidnapping would be SOMETHING, which would be better than NOTHING.

Are you pretty confident about this coded message, and that it was indeed NH calling? Which call was this?

In Dave's book, as I recall, he pretty much dismisses all phone calls ... although if that ONE is for real, possibly nobody wants to talk about it yet.

This is true however, if they can prove kidnapping now and get a conviction they should do it.  They can retry if a body or other evidence turns up indicating murder.

I have not heard of any actions against the Casinos / Bars that allowed Joran to conduct illegal activities (gamble/ drink) or for PaPa Sloot to knowing allow him to participate  Minior charges that follow you ..Yes.. but sill
someone with influence or the people of Aruba should be screaming like over it.
So how can we expect any major charges  being filed at this point in time?

After all we do not know their system... BUT I pray that Beth & Dave have someone in their corner that does, even if we have to be left in the dark.

JMO  of course

[Lala'sMom]

Did someone say Tylergal was getting an IV?  What is going on? Clue me in.

[igsigs]

Does anyone remember the name of the assistant prosecutor that resigned?  And the date?   TIA

Amelin Flanegan

Per Dave she resigned 'about a month into the case' when ALE 'refused to interrogate Koen'.