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Author Topic: Lively Case Discussion #487 7/5 - 7/6/2006  (Read 136741 times)
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Anna
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« Reply #80 on: July 05, 2006, 01:04:58 PM »

.
Tyler,
See my post above about Melody saying Joran came home and told Freddie that he had a nice time and met a girl/no sex.  Do I remember that correctly?  Odd considering Anita's statement about Natalee's underwear, etc.

But did she say that?  Do you recall?  Remember a whole thread disappeared, the one where she gave out her personal phone number I believe but no need to make the entire thread be gone but it was disappeared.

.
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Murder & Crime on Aruba Summary http://tinyurl.com/2nus7c
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« Reply #81 on: July 05, 2006, 01:07:30 PM »

Quote from: "Anna"
.
Tyler,
See my post above about Melody saying Joran came home and told Freddie that he had a nice time and met a girl/no sex.  Do I remember that correctly?  Odd considering Anita's statement about Natalee's underwear, etc.

But did she say that?  Do you recall?  Remember a whole thread disappeared, the one where she gave out her personal phone number I believe but no need to make the entire thread be gone but it was disappeared.

.


I recall that as the exact way it was posted.  Many things from RWV disappeared or were edited, when one went back to view them, and in particular anything stated by Scuba or Melody, and even all the posts that a person I trust felt was Anita, and he called her on those, and she disappeared as did her screen name and posts.  Somone was definitely being paid off.
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Tylergal
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« Reply #82 on: July 05, 2006, 01:08:54 PM »

Quote from: "Anna"
.
Tyler,
See my post above about Melody saying Joran came home and told Freddie that he had a nice time and met a girl/no sex.  Do I remember that correctly?  Odd considering Anita's statement about Natalee's underwear, etc.

But did she say that?  Do you recall?  Remember a whole thread disappeared, the one where she gave out her personal phone number I believe but no need to make the entire thread be gone but it was disappeared.

.


I coipied that post with her phone number before the "big eraser" got it.  In fact, I still have it but the number has been disconnected. Wink

I did call and speak with her on one occasion.  She is a lot more savvy than most 19-year-old girls.  She told me she was 2 years Joran's senior but she was still in school.  Must have been studying from the same book as Satish. Laughing
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« Reply #83 on: July 05, 2006, 01:09:03 PM »

Quote from: "Tylergal"
http://www.funjet.com/destinations/FROMMERs_DrillDown_serverSide.asp?TYPE=NIT&DEST_ID=13&DETAIL_ID=28486&Dest=LAS

Lots more on this bad boy by googling, i.e., the Circle de soleil show soon to appear in Vegas.

Morning, Tyler.  Zumanity has been at the New York, New York for a few months now.  I heard it was the worst of the Cirque shows.  I've seen Mystere (Treasure Island)--I'd rank very good--and will give you my opinion of Love (Mirage) when I return next week.  

Anyway, if you read the rest of the article that Klaas linked for us about Ernesto, Freddy's brother, I noticed some significantly big names at the party--Janet Jackson and entourage, the Miami Mayor Alex Penelas.  This is Miami Vice, for sure.  Ernesto and Freddy's family is MOB connected, big-time.  This also seems obvious in the way that Joran is protecting Freddy and trying to disassociate him from the crime, much as Deepak is trying to disassociate Satish.  We understand Deepak's motivation, but what is Joran's?  By the way, wasn't there some Shango/Simian talk about one of the suspects who had an "air-tight" alibi, some sort of party he was hosting?  People came to the conclusion this was Lorenzo, but what if this was Freddy?  Freddy may have been the one with the "air-tight" alibi if it was provided by his family.
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Lala'sMom
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« Reply #84 on: July 05, 2006, 01:09:06 PM »

Anna
I remember Freddy being Joran's alibi as a houseguest that night.  Alas, I can't remember too many details.  Would that then leave Freddy as the "alibi so strong" it can't be broken or not?  Just pondering as Mrs. Red would say.
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« Reply #85 on: July 05, 2006, 01:10:29 PM »

Quote from: "Anna"
One person who did NOT seem in the least intimidated by Freddie is Anita.  I believe she is the one technically who quizzed him on what the polis asked even though it was Paulus who was arrested.

Anita seemed to be supervising the posts of Melody and it was Melody only who placed Freddie in Joran's apartment.  Not only on the night Natalee disappeared but the next day even.  It was my understanding that Joran called Freddie at Joran's apartment from the tennis club and told Freddie that Natalee was missing and supposedly asked Freddie what to do.

Now I need some of you who were posting back then to verify this next part.  I remember her saying that Freddie said Joran came home early and said he had a nice time and met a nice girl and did not have sex.  I have forgotten the dates of Melody's posts and lots about them so does anybody remember this part?

The reason I say remember is because of that site owner's penchant for deleting anything that he wanted and he did one whole thread because of Melody.   Rolling Eyes  Her posting style changed abruptly and started to sound just like Anita which someone pointed out and got banned for doing.  But does anybody remember Melody posting that part about nice time/no sex?  Was it Anita re-writing the events even after she discussed Natalee's underwear?  Well, if she would tell that searched property whopper, she would tell anything.   Rolling Eyes


.


You are exactly right and I would venture to say Seedyrum and MrsJimiH still have those posts.  That was before the big blow-up among these two and the owner, while MrsJimiH was still funding that blog.
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Anna
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« Reply #86 on: July 05, 2006, 01:10:59 PM »

Klaas,
I am looking for the dates Melody posted.  This is from scubajap and sort of confirms what you said about Aruban posters although she is trying to make herself the victim:

Interesting.....


did they give up? or were they told to stay off the boards?

Posted by: slappy | Nov 8, 2005 1:02:56 AM
BINGO!
bye all.


Posted by: scubajap | Nov 8, 2005 5:55:59 AM

or were they told to stay off the boards?

Posted by: slappy | Nov 8, 2005 1:02:56 AM
didn't give up. Bye

Posted by: scubajap | Nov 8, 2005 5:56:45 AM

oh, and not to put to sinister a spin on it, it was by people that care about me, and my safety.
So bye for now.

Posted by: scubajap | Nov 8, 2005 5:59:39 AM

Posted by: gagal_05 | Nov 27, 2005 5:25:57 PM
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RIP Grumpy Cat :( I will miss you.


« Reply #87 on: July 05, 2006, 01:13:45 PM »

Quote from: "Anna"
.
Hey, Third!
How are things in Purpleville?  It is overcast here today so a bit cooler.  Much welcomed but means I have to get busy.  I did want somebody posting with Melody to confirm what I remembered.

See, complete conflict in what Melody said and Freddie's alibi per scubajap who said he was at an all-night family reunion.  Mine always ended long before then.   Rolling Eyes But I have no doubt Freddie could be the one with the alibi instead of Lorenzo as Tito mislead us to believe.

Good grief!  Doesn't anybody on that island ever tell the truth about
anything???

.


I totally agree w/ that statement...so many lies, so many people who lie in this case.....
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Anna
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« Reply #88 on: July 05, 2006, 01:14:32 PM »

Lalas,
The problem is we have Freddie both at Joran's and at a family reunions where he was seen by "dozens of people" for that same night.

So I don't know where he really was.
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« Reply #89 on: July 05, 2006, 01:16:01 PM »

Who or what ability does Shango have to be able to utilize this phrase he so often uses?

  "I must feed the messengers"
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« Reply #90 on: July 05, 2006, 01:17:50 PM »

Quote from: "Anna"
Lalas,
The problem is we have Freddie both at Joran's and at a family reunions where he was seen by "dozens of people" for that same night.

So I don't know where he really was.


Totally agree with you.  Someone needed to be "pinched" early on to break that alibi and it wasn't done.
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« Reply #91 on: July 05, 2006, 01:20:49 PM »

If Red/Tom and/or Klaas feels this is a post that should not be here, they can remove it.  I have no problem with it, but there is a lot here to "chew on."  I did not make this post, but most here know who did, and there are certainly some valid points herein.

...

First, the background info:

Paulus and Joran both gamble regularly at the Excelsior and other casinos. How much money does Paulus and/or Joran owe in gambling debts, and to whom? Known mafia families, like the Posners, the Arends, and the Cuntrera- Caruana families, own the Excelsior and other casinos.

Now, consider the Dutch system of contracts for favors. This is generally acceptable in Dutch society, even in legitimate businesses. For example, a contractor might help a land developer get cheaper materials to build with and save said developer some money in exchange for future business. Happens everywhere, actually, not just Dutch lands. This also works illegally: a judge who agrees to help keep criminals out of prison could very well expect to get ‘gifts’ from said criminal’s bosses. However, Paulus failed his judge’s exam, which means he can’t actively participate in this system of corruption as it currently exists on Aruba. So if he or Joran owes some very bad people money…hmmm…how will he pay it off?

A little something about Joran: he is known to have ‘taken advantage of young women’ as an early witness told Greta and CNN very early in the investigation- long before even Beth’s aborted bombshell…you know, back when suspects weren’t all obviously planted or put up to coming forward. What does this tell us? Well, it tells us that Joran DOES know how to find a ‘mark’, win her confidence and trust, separate her from her friends and/or drug her, take her away for a little fun…regardless of if she wants to or not. Deepak and possibly Satish have helped in the past with this; remember ME’s comment about ‘magic transport and tragic mansport’? It is a very common trick in the Caribbean for fake taxi drivers to pick up unsuspecting tourists, usually to extort money from them. Drunk and drugged girl would be even more vulnerable to such a trick…

Joran is known to work at the Excelsior as a drug runner for clients on the floor (who owns the Excelsior? Isn’t it Michael Posner, known Mafioso who just happens to be on vacation and not in Aruba right now)? Joran knows people, just like daddy does.

Van Der Sloot family life (a criminal profiler helped me on this): Joran has severe behavioral problems. His parents have always let him do what he likes…the ‘house rules’ his parents spoke of are nonexistent. He has no respect for woman because Anita is browbeaten and treated as inferior by Paulus. Anita is in denial that her son could do anything wrong: she still thinks he is some brilliant kid with an academic and athletic future when in reality he has proven to be only mediocre in both. She helps him improve his grades at school, and I don’t mean by tutoring him. She has access to school records, test scores, etc etc…

Kalpoe family life (again, the criminal profiler helped me puzzle this out): Satish may know what happened that night, but he is afraid to talk just like everyone else. We all know what happens when you squeal on a mafia family. Satish wants to make his mother happy and live up to her expectations; remember she is also deluded into thinking her little boys are perfect angels. Deepak and Satish do not have a father, but I hear from my Aruban contacts that their stepfather is FURIOUS about them bringing this onto the family. Maybe it is a cultural thing, but would he be furious if he thought the Kalpoes were innocent of wrongdoing? Deepak wants desperately to fit in with the ‘cool’ Dutch kids, so he sticks to Joran like glue and is very open to anything Joran suggests. Notice that Satish’s lawyer has started distancing his client from Deepak. Why? And why did Paulus pay for the Kalpoes’ attorneys at the beginning? And how does Paulus afford such a high-profile lawyer for his own son much less two low-end pimp wannabes when he is unemployed and Anita works as a schoolteacher? Am I missing something, or do Dutch schoolteachers have one helluva union?

Kalpoes left Suriname under some kind of trouble with the law…sexual assault is what I heard Deepak was charged with or suspected of. At this time Twittys and Holloways are looking into this but I haven’t heard what they’ve turned up. The thought occurs to me that that the Kalpoes might have come to Aruba with ready-made connections from Suriname…

Paulus Van Der Sloot is known to be friends with former polis chief Jan Van Der Straaten. Van Der Straaten is suspected of accepting bribes from drug dealers and others on the island to look the other way and help get their people out of trouble. In fact, he was suspended for two weeks by a former PM himself once, until the PM discovered that was not in his scope of powers and Van Der Straaten got his job back.

Now with the groundwork laid, we go to the theory:

Joran and possibly Paulus are suddenly saddled with a big gambling debt to somebody they are very afraid of when Paulus fails his judge’s exam and is stuff out from participation in the corruption in not only Aruba but throughout the Netherland Antilles. Well…Joran gets the idea that he can kidnap a girl for sale through his mafia/ casino/ drug dealer contacts to forgive the family debt...or more likely, someone who knows about his exploits on the island suggested this to him (remember he’s really not that smart). So, relying on his past experience taking advantage of young women, he goes out to find a girl…maybe any girl, maybe part of the deal was to find a blonde girl like Natalee for a prospective client who wanted such. I hear the Arabs, Sicilians, and South Americans LOVE blondes…very exotic to them.

So Joran goes about his usual routine, but this time with a much different goal in mind. He was hanging out with the Mountain Brook kids all week, so he had plenty of time to choose a mark. He tricks Natalee just like all those girls before: finds out when her last day on the island will be, hooks up with her that night (as early as 9:30 according to Nat’s friend Francis Byrd), most likely at the hotel casino. Apparently Natalee and a lot of her fellow students went to C&Cs around 11:30 pm, just after the Soul Beach Music Festival. This is where Joran went into action. He orders her a drink at C&Cs, slips her something to relax her (or has one of his buddies at C&C’s do it; I’ve been told by visitors to the island to always watch the bartenders there make your drink, especially if you’re female), and late that night offers to get her a taxi and share it with her to her hotel (he supposedly told Natalee he was a tourist staying at the same hotel and acted like a tourist according to other students). Now, did he assault her at C&Cs? I don’t know. I can’t imagine why Natalee would go off with him if he did, unless she really was under the influence of something…probably something stronger than 151. This is what I do know: Nat’s friends at C&C’s only saw her drink two drinks that night…so how did she get so out of sorts? Was she doing drugs? Yeah, but not of her own free will…Joran told LE she was, but later admitted that was a lie (for a complete list of Joran’s lies to date, see http://members.aol.com/WorldJOURNIER/NATALEE/NATALEEtimeline.html). And it does NOT mesh with what we know about Natalee’s personality and morality at all. He takes her to a ‘taxi’ around the corner (Deepak and Satish in his car, possibly with a TAXI sign just for looks), and off they go. Some classmates say they saw Natalee get into what they thought was a taxi- a gray taxi. Deepak’s car is gray; what a coincidence. One of Natalee’s classmates, Alana Jordan, sees Natalee walk off with Joran. She asks Natalee if she’s okay (Why? Alana noticed something was not right…probably subconsciously) and Nat says ‘Yes’. Alana reports that Natalee was coherent but not talkative…sounds like a drug called ‘zombie dust’ (ref: http://sec-global.com/advisories/SA0002270400.html) to me. Alana also states that Natalee and Joran weren’t touching…not if Nat was so smitten with Joran as he claims, where is the public display of affection? Alana further says that Natalee told her she was going back to her hotel, the Holiday Inn (and Natalee thought she was too). Natalee did NOT say “Joran invited me to see the beach” or the lighthouse or to go to his place. Natalee told her friend her INTENTION was to go back to her hotel. Joran gets to the rendezvous, and drops Natalee off. Now it is possible that Natalee was just meant to be with whoever Joran left her with for a few nights, but I doubt it. At this time I feel certain that Natalee was deliberately kidnapped for the sole purpose of selling her to someone to satisfy the Van Der Sloot family’s debts (if it hadn’t been Natalee, it would’ve been some other girl). At any rate, if Natalee was meant only as a one-night fling, then somebody deviated from the plan after Joran left, and that is when things got ugly. As an alternative, I offer the Mr. Pink scenario: whoever took Nat that night had access to Mr. Pink Productions, and that might have been where she was at when she made that 3 am call that let Beth know WITHOUT A DOUBT Natalee was kidnapped, or at least not with people she wanted to be with. A Twitty family friend tells me that “I don’t know these people” was the code Beth had with her kids just in case. So while Beth might not know if Natalee is still alive, she KNOWS Natalee was kidnapped that night. Mr. Pink Productions is an online porn studio that DOES recruit women from Aruba to be in their films and DOES make use of scouts to find potential actresses, as several witnesses who have been approached by said company told Beth Twitty. Mr Pink Productions shoots a lot of their footage on yachts and private islands as well, which means that anyone with access to MPP also has access to a yacht to take Natalee away, or an island to hide her on! Of course, she might have been at Joran’s house or one of the properties the Van Der Sloots own elsewhere on the island too, or at Lorenzo Van Rijn’s ranch (which, incidentally LE has NOT been allowed anywhere near even now- confirmed by an Aruban contact). Where the call was placed from I don’t know, only that it was the east side of the island and it was tracked... most likely by the DEA, since the DEA has a forward command post on Aruba. The DEA agent said that he was there on vacation, but I wonder… At 4 am Beth gets another more indistinct phone call, probably Natalee. All that is really distinct is a FEMALE voice in the background asking, “Are you calling home?” Do any women work for Mr. Pink? Who are Joran’s female friends…what about that one who is Marten Van Der Burg’s buddy, the one he wanted a ‘featherless bird’ from? Anyway, Deepak drops Joran and Nat off sometime between 1:30 and 2:40 and goes home.

At 2:40 am that morning Joran calls Deepak: I need a ride. Again Shango has some truth to him: Joran made the delivery and got the Hell out! There were people there that he did NOT want to be around at that particular time! The hand-off might have been at the racquet club, as Jossy Mansur suggested. Anyway, Joran calls his dad and tells him that the drop was made. Paulus reportedly makes an ATM withdrawal (enough for a plane ticket back to the Netherlands for Joran and himself I bet) and is supposedly at McDonalds at 11:00 pm with Joran. However, As Beth said in an interview to Fox News on 07/17, Paulus was not seen on security camera footage at all that night. Where was he? Did HE actually pick up Joran and not Deepak? I’m told that it only takes about 5 minutes to drive from the McDonald’s to the Van Der Sloot house, 15 minutes to go from the Van Der Sloot home to Carlos ‘n’ Charlie’s, no more than 10 minutes to go from the Van Der Sloot home to the Racquet Club. 3:15 am Joran texts Deepak and says, “I’m home”. How much you willing to bet it takes about 15 minutes to get from the McDonald’s to the Van Der Sloot home, with a quick stop at the ATM machine included? Good thing too, because around 3:00 am Deepak and Satish are washing the car…who the Hell washes their car at 3 am?! Can we say, “getting rid of evidence” that Natalee WAS in their car at some point in time? 5:30 am on 05/31 someone at the Van Der Sloot home e-mails Steve Croes, the owner of the cell phone company that supplies tourists with rental phones if I’m not mistaken. Probably telling him to find Nat’s rented cell phone (I’m not able to verify this second cell phone, but apparently a lot of tourists rent these phones since reception is often bad on Aruba) and erase the call history! 6:40 am Joran shows up at school, driven by Paulus (some people say he rode the bus). Joran is dead tired, even falls asleep in class, and has a nasty bruise on his cheek…probably from where Natalee got one good lick in on him! Despite what people have said, a 5’-4” girl can slug a guy his size in the face. Principal comments that Joran looks terrible. Now, despite what poor clueless Anita thinks, Joran is an idiot, and brags about what transpired between him and Natalee…another conquest according to him. A school official who knows that Beth is in Aruba by now tells Anita (who teaches at the same school as Joran attends, remember) to tell him to stop talking about Nat because she is missing. Then Paulus calls him and tells him the same thing. Finally he shuts up…like I said, not that bright a boy. Sorry to break that to you, Anita. Meanwhile, what is Paulus up to? Well, he calls his good buddy Jan van Der Straaten- DirtyHand himself- and lets him know what happened. Jan, being the good buddy he is, begins to arrange the cover-up since he knows Beth is already on Aruba. Beth shows up later that day at the Van Der Sloot home looking for Joran. After 20 minutes of blaring a police siren, and Paulus shows up. Why did it take him so long? Well…either he was hiding evidence or maybe frantically deleting stuff off a computer, or he was hiding Natalee in case LE did come in and search (Beth feels Nat was back there at the time, and maybe she was). Paulus sends Beth (who has no idea of this hideous corruption and cover-up yet) on a wild goose chase for Joran, thereby buying him time to either get Natalee out of there or further destroy evidence.

The first of the bogus witnesses: a man says he saw the Kalpoes and Joran burying a bag at the landfill, and at a distance of over 80 yards (at least 240 feet, about the length of a city block) he saw blonde hair and a naked female torso sticking out of a bag. He says the boys buried this under trash and put a kiddie pool over it. First of all, go outside and walk to the end of your block. Look down a street to the far end of said block. How much detail can you see? Could you see someone with a body in a bag? Possibly. Could you see who they were, what was in the bag, or see someone watching them through a fence? Probably not. Regardless if you believe Natalee is dead or not, that is mighty suspicious. Personally I think the landfill witness is just after the reward money- or maybe he saw something but wasn’t sure what he saw…I kind of wonder how many people it takes to bury a body anyway, and why they are out in broad daylight in a public place doing it? At any rate, at some point Natalee was taken by boat off the island (maybe via one of the yachts Mr. Pink has access to, maybe hidden for awhile on one of those little private islands) or to Curacao (one of the Van Der Sloot cell phone calls was traced to Curacao). From there…well, I don’t know, but probably to Venezuela: very close, very much anti-American. Little if any CIA or DEA or any American presence there. The State Department report below says that woman moved through Aruba often go there and Suriname. I think Nat was on Aruba several days before they managed to get her away, and probably was moved several times while there. The ranch to the Van Der Sloot home (or vice-versa), the Van Der Sloot home to a remote cave or maybe Arikok, but finally on a yacht. Remember, the judges flown in were also from Curacao, and everyone in the legal community in that area knows everyone else, a situation the FBI called ‘incestuous’. Paulus might have had help from his lawyer buddies there to make sure everyone looked the other way, who knows? Remember…Natalee must be delivered ALIVE to her buyer if the deal is to go through…even with all the heat at that time, she was no use dead. Would this take a lot of help to accomplish? Sure, but between the crime contacts, Van Der Straaten, and Paulus there was plenty of help to be had in doing this. The key term is ‘orchestrated’.

What does this all mean? Well…

1. Joran, Paulus, and the Kalpoes know what happened to Natalee, but they did not kill her (though they may very well have assaulted her as Dave H. and Beth alleged). These losers will die if they say anything. Again, Shango comes through. Luckily, Jan Van Der Straaten is there to cover everything up. FACT: an LE officer leaked to an investigator I know in Aruba that Jan was single handedly stalling the investigation and orchestrating the cover-up. At one point he even threatened Beth with stopping the investigation dead if she didn’t Please be quiet. Confirmed, folks…remember that ‘bombshell’ Beth claimed she had but never disclosed? Now you know why she never disclosed it. I would not be at all surprised if Van Der Straaten is still helping them cover up from the Netherlands. Hell has a special place for people like him.

2. The first trick LE used was to arrest the two security guards, based on what Joran first said and what Paulus most likely coached him to say when he also got the ‘no body, no crime’ speech. However, someone tipped Beth and LE off that this was a lie. Beth herself publicly said that was a mistake (Jossy helped break that to the media, too), so the guys were let off. Supposedly while they were held one of the Kalpoes apologized to them for their being implicated. Now an Aruban contact I have wants to tell us exactly why they were arrested, claims it was more than just because Joran told them, but this person will not until after Joran’s hearing. If anyone has ideas about this, please let me know…I am at a loss.

3. Second trick: invite the FBI to join the search then make them sit around and do NOTHING productive. Didn’t even let them get into the water. That would make it look like there was an interest in solving the case, it would take a week or more before the FBI agents publicly complained that they didn’t do anything.

4. Third trick: delay, delay, delay. Took LE 11 days to arrest Joran and the Kalpoes. Took a few more days to arrest Paulus. Plenty of time to let Natalee get well outside of Netherlands Antilles so that even if someone wised up to kidnapping at that early date, she would be well ahead of pursuers. Sounds like a good time for key experts to go on vacation: forensics expert goes on vacation. Karin Janssen goes on vacation…that’s a good way to stall. Who else will go on vacation next, the judges in Curacao?
PM Oduber, probably sensing that the integrity of his entire cabinet and any hope of re-election in December is rapidly dwindling, finally orders the FBI be given access to evidence and questioning of the suspect. Immediately, lawsuits start flying from Joran, Satish, and Deepak.
Will take a few days for those to be resolved, and remember every day that passes is one more day that they come to getting off the hook for their part in Natalee’s disappearance.

5. Fourth trick: beat the family down! Tell them this is a murder investigation. Push that in their face EVERY DAMN DAY. Fox News and CNN and MSNBC all eat it up, so all the Twittys and Holloways hear is ‘dead’. The more convinced the family is that Nat is dead, the more likely they will get desperate to accept ANYTHING for their own sakes, just to stop the pain of not knowing. The more they hear that, the more what they think is true and what is a lie will blur…I think Dave almost fell into that trap…until he was on Hannitty & Colmes on August 10 and said that kidnapping was a possibility he is pursuing. But if the Twittys and Holloways did believe Natalee is dead, they’ll stop looking for Natalee, and she will remain lost and the truth of what happened and what pervasive corruption led to her abduction will never be known. Luckily, it didn’t work on Beth or Jug.

6. Fifth trick: Fake evidence. Hair on duct tape…takes awhile to analyze this stuff. Personal items like a towel or ID card will be next…maybe an article of Natalee’s clothes. Problem is, we’re on to them now, as are the Twittys. Anything the LE plants will be rejected outright from now on. We’ll take DNA from the three stooges under improper procedures so it will be inadmissible. Remember those bones that were turned in but never acknowledged? Don’t be surprised if that turns up again with a personal effect like an earring or article of clothing: it’ll take awhile to analyze that and figure out it isn’t human remains..probably a donkey or something. Remember that person-sized hole that TES found in Arikok? How easy would it be for someone to dig that and just…alert TES? Tim Miller, good soul but clueless about all this as he is, was very upset about that. He fell hook, line, and sinker for what that implied, didn’t even think twice about it. Poor guy…he might as well go home and save his organization some money that somebody else can REALLY use. Natalee doesn’t need corpse dogs, she needs rescuers. I understand that Tim has no experience working outside the U.S. and no experience with this kind of corruption, but I think sometimes that the fact that he lost his own daughter has blinded him to other possibilities

7. Sixth trick: stage phony protests. Try to make the Twittys back off by rounding up Arubans who claim to be offended by the Twitty’s comments. Maybe that will make them give up or at least stop with the media…wait! I know! Let’s protect the media instead, since it’s obvious that ANY criticism we give the Twittys will meet with instant wrath in the U.S.! We’ll get together and claim that we’re offended by the way our island and LE is portrayed in the media! Never mind that we’ve brought this all on ourselves by NOT cooperating fully with the FBI, the Twittys, and the Netherlands long before now…

8. Seventh trick: discredit the volunteers from the U.S. I know…let’s claim that TES broke a bunch of turtle eggs. What…nobody believed that lie? Well…let’s claim TES set fire to the dump, and hope the Americans don’t notice that TES left the island four days before the fire started!

7. Last trick (to date): fake witnesses. Now I’m not saying that all the people who have come forward are lying, but its really suspicious that suddenly everyone is coming out of the woodworks saying, “I saw this. I saw that. I played dominos with so-and-so and HE said…”
Keep the family hoping that something is changing in the investigation, make Beth think that ‘sense of urgency’ she wanted to see is happening, run the clock out more. You see, LE is thinking that when September rolls around and Joran is released from lack of evidence that the family will have no recourse but to walk away. “Oh so sorry about your daughter. Cold case. We’ll let you know if we find anything. Now GO HOME…and take the media and PIs and everyone else who is making us look like the slimebags we are with you! But by all means tell your friends to come visit our safe, happy, little island paradise and spend lots of money though.” WHEN, not if that happens, I hope Beth goes public with everything she has that won’t jeopardize Natalee. I also hope there is allowance for civil lawsuits in Dutch law…maybe Natalee’s family can pull an O.J. on the Van Der Sloots and Kalpoes and sue them into poverty. Even if they don’t win they can use a lawsuit to torment those involved and RUIN these people’s lives and make them regret they ever touched Natalee! My hope is Natalee is found as soon as possible. With any luck, before Joran is released. It would be so rewarding to see everyone in Aruba scramble around in a blind panic, knowing their doom is imminent!

Finally, reason why murder is NOT possible:

1. There is no such thing as a perfect crime. Someone will talk, something will turn up, a reliable witness will come forward. The people on Aruba are obviously afraid of something…and it isn’t a failed, fallen judge. If Natalee accidentally died or was murdered, then why would people be so close-mouthed? Why would Joran lie and lie and lie again? Why would the Kalpoes need a lawyer? Who are the Van Der Sloots to the Arubans but another family of Dutch expatriates, people who they hate anyway? But…if Natalee was kidnapped at the direction of a M-A-F-I-A crime boss…well, like I said. We know what happens to people who squeal on those folks. Remember that guy who turned up dead not long after Nat went missing? How much are you willing to bet he saw something he shouldn’t have, and now he’s dead and his girlfriend is being framed for that too? I believe the ‘Columbian necktie’ he got was trademark of South American narcoterrorists. A body cannot be dumped at sea as easily as you think: you have to go WAY out to make sure nothing washes up, and there’s always the problem of people seeing you take the body onto the boat. You can go at night BUT…the DEA has a listening post on the island and they know if any ship leaves under suspicious circumstances. The island has been searched everywhere now…TES even found a way to get access to the well at the Van Der Sloot home via the neighbor’s house. Even if a body was moved repeatedly, every movement is a huge risk.

2. Don’t think this can’t happen to an American. What protects us specifically from anything bad when we’re at home or overseas? As genebernat pointed out in one of his letters, the fact that most of the world hates us kind of makes us targets. Curiously, I hear the average Aruban is very pro-American, even beyond the tourism money and politically. Of course, the Dutch in charge of the island are Socialist like most Europeans and are sympathetic to Venezuela and Chavez!
Hell, the kidnapping of an attractive, young, American woman happened in 1997…her name is Amy Bradley, and she disappeared off a cruise liner off the coast of Curacao. This after someone she met on the ship asked her to go ashore at Aruba and have a drink at C&Cs. Hmmm….

3. Don’t think that human trafficking and forced prostitution is a myth, like I did at first until I did some research. Human trafficking is the most serious but most underreported human rights abuse in the world according to the IOM, and guess what? It almost always involves young women and it almost always involves movement between one country and another. Here’s another tidbit for ya: the DEA has known for years that Aruba is a stopover for drugs bound for the U.S. and Europe. Read the State Department’s 2005 Report on the Trafficking of Persons at
http://www.state.gov/g/tip/rls/tiprpt/2005/ and take a look at how abysmally the countries near the Netherland Antilles, like Venezuela and Suriname, rank. Here’s a little excerpt about the Netherland Antilles itself:

“THE DUTCH CARIBBEAN AUTONOMOUS REGIONS
Anecdotal reporting suggests that the Netherlands Antilles and Aruba, autonomous regions within the Kingdom of the Netherlands, are transit and destination regions for trafficking of women and children for sexual exploitation. Curacao and Saint Maarten, in particular, reportedly are destination islands for women trafficked for the sex trade from Columbia, the Dominican Republic and Haiti. In Curacao (and neighboring Aruba) observers estimate that 500 foreign women are in prostitution, some of whom may have been trafficked. There are also reports of children being trafficked for sexual exploitation as underage prostitutes, particularly from the Dominican Republic. In September 2004, Curacao prosecuted and sentenced two traffickers who trafficked children from Suriname to Curacao using fraudulent documents. Visas for Aruba and the Netherlands Antilles are issued by Dutch Embassies following review by Aruban or Netherlands Antilles’ authorities. Visa controls were reportedly tightened in 2004. Also in 2004, the Dutch government provided 100,000 Euros to an IOM program focused on awareness raising, information dissemination and regional cooperation targeting officials from the Dutch Caribbean.”
You know, the Kalpoes are from Suriname…I wonder if they came to Aruba with knowledge of how or even intent to get involved in this… I have heard a few people suggest this was a first-timer’s botched attempt at getting into the business.
4. Again as genebernat pointed out, this investigation has been approached by even legitimate investigators on the statistical probability that this was homicide. “remember if the odds of something are one in a million we must remember that the one does come up at some point.” Is what gene said exactly. This has happened before also: the young woman’s name is Elizabeth Smart, and she was kidnapped but feared dead for months before she was rescued thanks to her own little sister and she beat the odds.

Thanks to Michael22, genebernat (to name a few) and just about everyone on scaredmonkeys.com forum for helping me piece this theory together. I feel that it holds water pretty well. The important thing…THE most important thing that has happened in this case and for Natalee… is that Beth and Jug are not convinced Natalee is dead and they have strength and determination and hope in the Lord renewed to find Nat no matter what! Mysterious dump fires that start four days after the supposed perps have left the island notwithstanding....what did I tell you guys about LE eventually doing something so stupid that everyone would know it is BS?
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« Reply #92 on: July 05, 2006, 01:22:44 PM »

Quote from: "Lala'sMom"
Do we still have the entire Shango/Simian stuff?  Is it lost forever?


Believe it or not, I have a hard copy of the last S/S thread .... I may have it electronically on my computer at home. (And I'm not even an S/S person ...   Confused )
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« Reply #93 on: July 05, 2006, 01:27:53 PM »

Here's a couple of RWV posts I found regarding Melody and Freddy:

Melody is on Freddy's Tickle site..hmmmmm.

Jaime is on Freddy's Tickle site.

Wasn't it Melody that first said that somebody else slept over at Joran's apartment the night NH dissappeared?

This is all becoming very incestuous. I think the walls are caving in on this little circle. The more people involved and brought in the better chance somebody squeals. It's getting real hot down in the Happy Island. Paulus, are you having a good day?

I think Melody may have some 'splaining to do, or at least may know more than she lets on.

Keep up the great work Dan, posters!!

Posted by: watchingclosely | Friday, August 26, 2005 at 12:43 PM

**************************************


the person arrested--is he the same one who spent the night at Joran's apt that night?

If that info came from Melody, could it be that Melody was trying to give somes clues or hints here--under the guise of supporting Joran?

Posted by: bhm mom too | Friday, August 26, 2005 at 03:37 PM


Anna & Tyler - help me look through these threads:


http://tinyurl.com/olbls
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« Reply #94 on: July 05, 2006, 01:28:32 PM »

Quote from: "Lala'sMom"
Who or what ability does Shango have to be able to utilize this phrase he so often uses?

  "I must feed the messengers"


Aruba Girl's family owns a restaurant on the island.  I wonder if people eat in a restaurant.
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« Reply #95 on: July 05, 2006, 01:31:17 PM »

The significant Melody threads are going to be right after Red came back from Aruba, because that is the point at which Dan "hitched his moneywagon" to Scubajap.  Within a few days, Melody was brought on board.  I am looking through my saved material to see what I can find.

Go back and look early August, if you have it.
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« Reply #96 on: July 05, 2006, 01:34:18 PM »

Also, Deepak probably hadn't been in Aruba that long, so I can see how he might make some mistakes.

Deepak has been in Aruba for years.
The description of how you leave c&c for the mainstreet is totally off. That is the first giveaway. Many other points.
Also I talked to Deepak before the e-mail surfaced-he has his own plans about when and how to tell his story-that e-mail is not it.

Posted by: scubajap | Aug 22, 2005 12:02:31 AM


Look right before or right after this time.  Start early August, go to September.  Both my family members were banned before Katrina.
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« Reply #97 on: July 05, 2006, 01:34:20 PM »

Quote from: "Tylergal"
Quote from: "Lala'sMom"
Who or what ability does Shango have to be able to utilize this phrase he so often uses?

  "I must feed the messengers"


Aruba Girl's family owns a restaurant on the island.  I wonder if people eat in a restaurant.


I think you are correct, but I am speaking of Shango only here and not possible Simian identities.  Wink
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« Reply #98 on: July 05, 2006, 01:35:40 PM »

Quote from: "msmarple"
Quote from: "Lala'sMom"
Do we still have the entire Shango/Simian stuff?  Is it lost forever?


Believe it or not, I have a hard copy of the last S/S thread .... I may have it electronically on my computer at home. (And I'm not even an S/S person ...   Confused )


Would you mind emailing them to me when you have time? Email in my profile. Thanks.
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msmarple
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« Reply #99 on: July 05, 2006, 01:39:18 PM »

Quote from: "Lala'sMom"
Quote from: "msmarple"
Quote from: "Lala'sMom"
Do we still have the entire Shango/Simian stuff?  Is it lost forever?


Believe it or not, I have a hard copy of the last S/S thread .... I may have it electronically on my computer at home. (And I'm not even an S/S person ...   Confused )


Would you mind emailing them to me when you have time? Email in my profile. Thanks.


Lala's - If I do have it on my home computer, I'll email. If not, you're welcome to the hard copy and I will s-mail it to you. I'll let you know tonight.
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