Lively Case Discussion #487 7/5 - 7/6/2006

[WidgetTheMidget]

Yes, the Sloots appear to have too much money for the positions that they hold and I would not doubt that Paulus has done favors for Posner who repays with line of credit etc.  Maybe Paulus never has to pay it back and that alone would launder a tremendous amount of money over the course of a year.

But I cannot of the life of me see Michael Posner doing any kind of dirty deal with these punk kids.  Yes, Guido was in a legitimate internship program at his casino but that is far from this blackmailable dealings with the likes of Joran van der Sloot and the Kelpoes.

Unless Posner has become totally senile, no way would he be involved in criminal activities of this sort with these people.  Nor would he be accepting a highly maintained American tourist as payment for anything!  The man is not stupid and did not get the power he has by being so.  There are hundreds of thousands of girls blondes from the Eastern Bloc countries that would not bring all this high level publicity down on the island.

Yes, I think they are all dirty but I do not think it necessarily relates to what Joran and the Kelpoes did to Natalee other than they thought they could do whatever they wanted and get away with it.

Just my opinion so go ahead and shoot me!

Anna,

I never shoot inside a forum...the ricochet might just take me out!  hehe

Aint That The TRUTH ...............

 

[flyingmermaid]

Thus an old traders' tip "Buy on rumors, sell on facts" has again proved to be right.   The rumors that they better sell have become fact and now its too late to dump those timeshares..

I think Aruba must be really hurting for this kind of rate..

$455.00  That is for roundtrip and hotel for two..  

**** HOLIDAY INN SUNSPREE RESORT ARUBA ****  

BEACHFRONT RESORT PACKAGE FOR 2 WITH R/T AIR!!!
~ PERFECT CARIBBEAN ESCAPE ~
 

 
(Payment plans available on select packages)
You are bidding on a 8 day-7 night Vacation Package for TWO.
(Unlike other vacations on eBay, this is an actual vacation package being auctioned by a full service travel agency for specified dates, not a certificate or voucher that may or may not confirm your vacation)
 
Your package will include:
R/T non-stop flights from Pittsburgh, PA (PIT) - handful of other cities available (we can customize package from all air cities, please inquire before bidding)
8 days / 7 nights resort accommodations
R/T airport transfers
All hotel taxes
Airport departure taxes additional and vary by departure city.  For Pittsburgh,  (PIT) please add $84.00 pp.

May Rob's friend Matt is selling his Vacation!

[Anna]

This is speculation Anna.  We don't have a "definitive" timeline for Natalee's time on the island.  If we are to believe Joran when he said they did this at least 20 times, then da pimps had to be stalking the MB group early on for possible victims.  Joran also said he was interested in the other girl (of course he made this sound innocent).  Didn't she leave C&C's early?  Could Geoffrey have set Natalee up for Joran?  What exactly is known of their interaction with the MB group besides the Casino?

I misunderstood and thought you had some concrete knowledge.  Beth said Natalee pushed GVC away on Friday night or Saturday night at C&C as he was annoying her while she was dancing with a MB boy.  She only introduced herself to Joran earlier Sunday even though he had been lurking around since they arrived late Thursday.  This was more of a long weekend instead of a week long trip so there wasn't much time for anything to have happened.  83 hours counting sleeping time.  The MB kids say Natalee stayed just with the group the whole time, did not so much as take a meal with anybody outside of it.

The one girl went back to the room a little early but was not the one Joran mentioned being interested in, was another one.  I think she does not drink and was tired was the only reason she gave.  She left about only about an hour earlier.  I just think it was a crime of opportunity, the one easiest to carve out from the group.  

I also tend to think that normally they went to hotel room but since Anita was away, that made it possible for them to just go back to the Sloot residence, probably the main residence, the one never searched.  Certainly doubt Paulus would object.  Seems he was in on it.

But I don't think there was planning for it could have just as easily been Natalee who went back to the hotel early.  Too much left to chance.
Just my opinion.

/

[shadow]

Good afternoon monkeys . . . been working and lurking.

I can't stop thinking about the months prior to Natalee's untimely demise. Do we know, or can we find out the activities of Joran and company?? What about casino surveilance videos? There has to be a map so to speak of prior behavior.

Any clue why there have not been more casino footage released? From what I know of casinos, their surveilance is generally top notch and covers every area and many angles of each gambling table. Wouldn't the casinos in Aruba choose to protect themselves from cheaters and those trying to take their money like those found in the US??? I just find it all quite curious. Any ideas . . . ??

[WidgetTheMidget]

This is speculation Anna.  We don't have a "definitive" timeline for Natalee's time on the island.  If we are to believe Joran when he said they did this at least 20 times, then da pimps had to be stalking the MB group early on for possible victims.  Joran also said he was interested in the other girl (of course he made this sound innocent).  Didn't she leave C&C's early?  Could Geoffrey have set Natalee up for Joran?  What exactly is known of their interaction with the MB group besides the Casino?

I misunderstood and thought you had some concrete knowledge.  Beth said Natalee pushed GVC away on Friday night or Saturday night at C&C as he was annoying her while she was dancing with a MB boy.  She only introduced herself to Joran earlier Sunday even though he had been lurking around since they arrived late Thursday.  This was more of a long weekend instead of a week long trip so there wasn't much time for anything to have happened.  83 hours counting sleeping time.  The MB kids say Natalee stayed just with the group the whole time, did not so much as take a meal with anybody outside of it.

The one girl went back to the room a little early but was not the one Joran mentioned being interested in, was another one.  I think she does not drink and was tired was the only reason she gave.  She left about only about an hour earlier.  I just think it was a crime of opportunity, the one easiest to carve out from the group.  

I also tend to think that normally they went to hotel room but since Anita was away, that made it possible for them to just go back to the Sloot residence, probably the main residence, the one never searched.  Certainly doubt Paulus would object.  Seems he was in on it.

But I don't think there was planning for it could have just as easily been Natalee who went back to the hotel early.  Too much left to chance.
Just my opinion.

/

The Only Way To Find Out The Truth ...............

Is To Sit Joran Down .............

And Start Jamming Toothpicks Under His Fingernails ...............

The World Would Know What Happened To Natalee In 5 Seconds.........

 

[Leslie]

Diario   July 6, 2006
http://www.diarioaruba.com/diahuebs/frontpage/index.html

[terryd270]

FlyingMermaid,

I just post stuff that I see makes those that support the island mad.. If you ever read over there, after you post something about timeshares are investments, its like you pushed a button..  I think they see it but don't want to accept the fact that there are a lot less people buying timeshares then a year ago.. Wait until next year and the crackheads won't have to live under a coconut tree, they will have their choice of rooms to live in...

[tidycat]

testing

[WidgetTheMidget]

Good afternoon monkeys . . . been working and lurking.

I can't stop thinking about the months prior to Natalee's untimely demise. Do we know, or can we find out the activities of Joran and company?? What about casino surveilance videos? There has to be a map so to speak of prior behavior.

Any clue why there have not been more casino footage released? From what I know of casinos, their surveilance is generally top notch and covers every area and many angles of each gambling table. Wouldn't the casinos in Aruba choose to protect themselves from cheaters and those trying to take their money like those found in the US??? I just find it all quite curious. Any ideas . . . ??

Well We Have Proof Of Statement That He Hangs Out At The Excelsior

Casino Looking For Young Girls ..............

Of Course If The Prosecutor Was On The Up & Up She Should Have All

Tapes In Her Possesion & Also All Phone Traffic That Was Produced

From May 29th .........

But We Are Talking Karin Janssen & That To Me Smells Cover-Up .........

 

[terryd270]

I still believe there are many power brokers on that island and I just want to know which one is backing this crime.. The other brokers can't be too happy and I would think they would of knocked off Paulus without much thought..  He can't be that powerful, to run and hide in bushes as we all seen him do on Greta...He sweats because he has a condition, yea right, he lies...

[tidycat]

Oh, hi monkeys!

Tyler, I hope you are feeling much better and recovering.

Snoopy, I'm sorry for your loss.

Jacqueline, I'm so happy about your uncle's release!

Hubbylove, so nice to see you back.

Has Nonesuche been by lately?

I haven't been here for a week except occasional lurking...   ...someone was poofed?!  Good heavens!  Everytime I fail to show up even for 24 hours I miss so much.  Gotta read back four threads!     See y'all later!

[Anna]

[
You Are Probably Right But One Has To Ask This ...............

Why Does Posner Allow 16 Year Olds In His Casino Gambling & Drinking

If The Night Manager Knows Of The Sporters Reputation You Dont Think

Posner Knows ..............

Theres Something There ...........We Just Can 't See It .............

By The Way HI Anna .................

 

Hi, Widget

Cloudy and the track is fast.  Does this mean the coast is clear??  

Just trying to be mysterious.

Not sure Joran was allowed to gamble at 16 but he is such a big galoot (Jacquie taught me that word) that he could easily be mistaken for older.  I just don't put underage gambling on a small scale or even drinking in the same category as human trafficking of a well-maintained, wealthy, non-orphaned blonde/blue-eyed somebody's baby girl American.  It's not like Posner wouldn't have his pick of thousands brought into Holland for such purposes so why would he take such a risk when he doesn't have to?  

I'd guess that nobody in the world would chose a girl in Natalee's situation willingly unless they were some kind of rank amateur which we know Mikey surely isn't.  He plays with the big boys and for high stakes and just wouldn't risk this kind of exposure for those creeps.  Not even Paulus.  Why should he?  The man is likely a billionaire from online gambling.  He could send out for a dozen blondes and have them delivered next flight from Amsterdam.  

Anyone should be able to tell from Natalee's appearance, say teeth for example, perfect, that this is not a runaway nor orphan and somebody is going to come looking.  Anybody except Joran who could well be the Village Idiot of Aruba.

.

[truthseeker2]

Anna,

I understand what you mean.  What puzzles me is the obvious cover up...it's massive.  Ten days before they pick the guys up and only because Beth wasn't so easily fooled by their arrest of the security guards.  Too many lies and contradictions coming from the 'investigators', people all over the internet telling false stories about Natalee, immediately hitting the blogs in defense of Joran and the Kalpoes.  Not to mention Shango and Simian.  Whether we think they were legit or nutcases or posting to start some political discourse, they made a huge impact and spent a lot of time doing it.  Wonder why?

Doesn't make any seense to me that it is just the Sloots and Kalpoes.  Why do all that just for the son of a failed judge and a school teacher when it was obvious in the first couple of days the guys had lied?

Why was TES sent on wild goose chases by the investigators?  Why would someone come up and tap a TES searcher on the shoulder and say "Hey, I know where there is an abondoned shallow grave...way over there" and have it be nothing at all?  Why is Julia so interested in this...enough to mislead the family the way she did?  The list goes on and on.

I think this is way bigger than the Sloots and Kalpoes.  But, I could be wrong.

[flyingmermaid]

testing

Working!

Hi Tidy!

[Kimmy53]

Yes, the Sloots appear to have too much money for the positions that they hold and I would not doubt that Paulus has done favors for Posner who repays with line of credit etc.  Maybe Paulus never has to pay it back and that alone would launder a tremendous amount of money over the course of a year.

But I cannot of the life of me see Michael Posner doing any kind of dirty deal with these punk kids.  Yes, Guido was in a legitimate internship program at his casino but that is far from this blackmailable dealings with the likes of Joran van der Sloot and the Kelpoes.

Unless Posner has become totally senile, no way would he be involved in criminal activities of this sort with these people.  Nor would he be accepting a highly maintained American tourist as payment for anything!  The man is not stupid and did not get the power he has by being so.  There are hundreds of thousands of girls blondes from the Eastern Bloc countries that would not bring all this high level publicity down on the island.

Yes, I think they are all dirty but I do not think it necessarily relates to what Joran and the Kelpoes did to Natalee other than they thought they could do whatever they wanted and get away with it.

Just my opinion so go ahead and shoot me!

Oh Anna - you make very good points - no shooting here!  

What if the partnership so to speak was an unintentional one?  Maybe Paulus has taken care of some things for Posner(or someone else for that matter)  Posner or others cannot be everywhere all the time, so, Paulus allows his son to use his line of credit - hey it's a small island, everyone knows everyone else...Only thing is, Joran & friends play their little game, but something goes terribly wrong this time.  Paulus has no choice but to cover for Joran - because in effect he is covering for himself.  Joran's actions have almost brought this whole deal down - they all fall if one falls.  Remember Paulus sweating profusely?  He was probably not worrying about ALE - but the others that he has surely pissed off.  He promises to take care of it all and calls in favors from Van der Straten and others.  His associates tell him to take care of this mess, and in turn, he hires lawyers for those involved.  Even though Joran & K2 are the culprits, Paulus is deeply involved in the cover-up - It wasn't just to save Joran's a$$ - but his own as well.   Time will tell if it worked. - JMO

[shadow]

Good afternoon monkeys . . . been working and lurking.

I can't stop thinking about the months prior to Natalee's untimely demise. Do we know, or can we find out the activities of Joran and company?? What about casino surveilance videos? There has to be a map so to speak of prior behavior.

Any clue why there have not been more casino footage released? From what I know of casinos, their surveilance is generally top notch and covers every area and many angles of each gambling table. Wouldn't the casinos in Aruba choose to protect themselves from cheaters and those trying to take their money like those found in the US??? I just find it all quite curious. Any ideas . . . ??

Well We Have Proof Of Statement That He Hangs Out At The Excelsior

Casino Looking For Young Girls ..............

Of Course If The Prosecutor Was On The Up & Up She Should Have All

Tapes In Her Possesion & Also All Phone Traffic That Was Produced

From May 29th .........

But We Are Talking Karin Janssen & That To Me Smells Cover-Up .........

 

I would have to agree Widget. How can there be this "common knowledge" of Joran's behavior with tourist girls, when we can find NO evidence of this behavior. Odd to say the least. Everything we see and don't see smells rotten. I wonder if she does have the tapes, and if she does, does she plan to do anything with them?

[WidgetTheMidget]

[
You Are Probably Right But One Has To Ask This ...............

Why Does Posner Allow 16 Year Olds In His Casino Gambling & Drinking

If The Night Manager Knows Of The Sporters Reputation You Dont Think

Posner Knows ..............

Theres Something There ...........We Just Can 't See It .............

By The Way HI Anna .................

 

Hi, Widget

Cloudy and the track is fast.  Does this mean the coast is clear??  

Just trying to be mysterious.

Not sure Joran was allowed to gamble at 16 but he is such a big galoot (Jacquie taught me that word) that he could easily be mistaken for older.  I just don't put underage gambling on a small scale or even drinking in the same category as human trafficking of a well-maintained, wealthy, non-orphaned blonde/blue-eyed somebody's baby girl American.  It's not like Posner wouldn't have his pick of thousands brought into Holland for such purposes so why would he take such a risk when he doesn't have to?  

I'd guess that nobody in the world would chose a girl in Natalee's situation willingly unless they were some kind of rank amateur which we know Mikey surely isn't.  He plays with the big boys and for high stakes and just wouldn't risk this kind of exposure for those creeps.  Not even Paulus.  Why should he?  The man is likely a billionaire from online gambling.  He could send out for a dozen blondes and have them delivered next flight from Amsterdam.  

Anyone should be able to tell from Natalee's appearance, say teeth for example, perfect, that this is not a runaway nor orphan and somebody is going to come looking.  Anybody except Joran who could well be the Village Idiot of Aruba.

.

If Someone Would Contact Bails Or Elyse We Could Find Out .............

The WHO , WHAT & WHERE Of The PIMPS MO ..................

Thats If They Can Remember Their Last Wild Night In Aruba ...........

 

[terryd270]

Wow that interesting the timeshare was taken down just now that I posted.. I wonder why??  I guess someone didn't like my post just now..

[San]

Oh, hi monkeys!

Tyler, I hope you are feeling much better and recovering.

Snoopy, I'm sorry for your loss.

Jacqueline, I'm so happy about your uncle's release!

Hubbylove, so nice to see you back.

Has Nonesuche been by lately?

I haven't been here for a week except occasional lurking...   ...someone was poofed?!  Good heavens!  Everytime I fail to show up even for 24 hours I miss so much.  Gotta read back four threads!     See y'all later!

Hi Tidy good to see you.

[Houdini]

Anna wrote:

The one girl went back to the room a little early but was not the one Joran mentioned being interested in, was another one. I think she does not drink and was tired was the only reason she gave. She left about only about an hour earlier. I just think it was a crime of opportunity, the one easiest to carve out from the group. Well that's where I've been "hung up" from day-one.  Someone or something MADE her the easiest to carve out from the group.  They had the buddy system in place and working.  Members of the MB group actually asked Natalee if she was okay.  What ploy did they use to gain Natalee's trust and give the MB group the impression that all was well?

I also tend to think that normally they went to hotel room but since Anita was away, that made it possible for them to just go back to the Sloot residence, probably the main residence, the one never searched. Certainly doubt Paulus would object. Seems he was in on it.  I too think Paulus played a part in this.  At this juncture I suspect (but have no proof) that Paulus was called back from Holland for just this opportunity.  And, if in their haste, they improvised the residence instead of their usual room, what could have transpired there that would have been different than if it was at a hotel room.  The something bad  that happened?

But I don't think there was planning for it could have just as easily been Natalee who went back to the hotel early. Too much left to chance.
Just my opinion. I think Natalee wasn't their target, but somehow events transpired that moved her to the top of their list.  I'm just trying to figure out what.  They had a "set routine" if they did this 20 times.  One or all of the steps in their routine changed.  Nail down their routine and we're on our way to discovering what happened to Natalee.  JMHO