Lively Case Discussion #538 10/26 - 10/29/2005

[friend of monkeys]

I hate to say this, but I don't think the people in aruba care...

i think they have just gotten so used to the scam the tourists that it's just a way of life...

they would rather take a scammed happy meal that have the filet ... they don't even understand the difference anymore... it's become ingrained over time, IMO

  Mrs. Red i have to agree.

[the big hammer]

Eric Willaims was DEA

From BENVINDA DE SOUZA'S CONFIDENTIAL LETTER TO KAREN JANSSEN June 23, 2005:  "...At the airport the parents were met with Mr. Alberto Groeneveld and Claudio Eldridge of Universal Aviation Aruba N.V. a ? company for private jets. The parents departed inmediately to the Holiday Inn Hotel. They were awaited there by Mr. Paul Lilly, one of the chaperones of the travelgroup and Mr. Eric Williams, an American ex-DEA agent and a friend of the family..."

Why would Paulus misidentify Williams as being from the FBI?

Because he's invoking jurisdictional turf to isolate the HT Family and put Aruban polis on notice that their zone of operation has been invaded by an outside law enforcement agency.  Thereby shutting down what's "admissable" during these conversations and re-enactments during the early hours of May 31, 2005, i.e. any conversation w/ Williams is disallowed.

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[Kimmy53]

Eric Willaims was DEA

From BENVINDA DE SOUZA'S CONFIDENTIAL LETTER TO KAREN JANSSEN June 23, 2005:  "...At the airport the parents were met with Mr. Alberto Groeneveld and Claudio Eldridge of Universal Aviation Aruba N.V. a ? company for private jets. The parents departed inmediately to the Holiday Inn Hotel. They were awaited there by Mr. Paul Lilly, one of the chaperones of the travelgroup and Mr. Eric Williams, an American ex-DEA agent and a friend of the family..."

Why would Paulus misidentify Williams as being from the FBI?

Because he's invoking jurisdictional turf to isolate the HT Family and put Aruban polis on notice that their zone of operation has been invaded by an outside law enforcement agency.  Thereby shutting down what's "admissable" during these conversations and re-enactments during the early hours of May 31, 2005, i.e. any conversation w/ Williams is disallowed.

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Oh I agree hammer!  He is doing damage control from the beginning.  He sure was wanted J2K to shut up and everyone to stop asking them questions.  He told the police that Williams was FBI and immediately the police shuffle him away to tell him about the "beach bums"

[2NJSons_Mom]

Eric Willaims was DEA

From BENVINDA DE SOUZA'S CONFIDENTIAL LETTER TO KAREN JANSSEN June 23, 2005:  "...At the airport the parents were met with Mr. Alberto Groeneveld and Claudio Eldridge of Universal Aviation Aruba N.V. a ? company for private jets. The parents departed inmediately to the Holiday Inn Hotel. They were awaited there by Mr. Paul Lilly, one of the chaperones of the travelgroup and Mr. Eric Williams, an American ex-DEA agent and a friend of the family..."

Why would Paulus misidentify Williams as being from the FBI?

Because he's invoking jurisdictional turf to isolate the HT Family and put Aruban polis on notice that their zone of operation has been invaded by an outside law enforcement agency.  Thereby shutting down what's "admissable" during these conversations and re-enactments during the early hours of May 31, 2005, i.e. any conversation w/ Williams is disallowed.
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Absolutely...since DEA is also a US government agency, his mis-ID as FBI was not pursued by ALE.  Guess it doesn't matter, based on their judicial system.

[Jacqueline]

Those in custody are: Lianna Lopez, 18, of Greenacres, and West Palm Beach residents Daniel Troya, 23, Danny Varela, 26, and Ricardo Sanchez, 23. They had not been charged with the killings, Mascara said. All have prior arrests.

OT/ Florida Family found shot in van in florida breaking news.
Posted in Unsolved Crime thread...

[Ono]

Eric Willaims was DEA

From BENVINDA DE SOUZA'S CONFIDENTIAL LETTER TO KAREN JANSSEN June 23, 2005:  "...At the airport the parents were met with Mr. Alberto Groeneveld and Claudio Eldridge of Universal Aviation Aruba N.V. a ? company for private jets. The parents departed inmediately to the Holiday Inn Hotel. They were awaited there by Mr. Paul Lilly, one of the chaperones of the travelgroup and Mr. Eric Williams, an American ex-DEA agent and a friend of the family..."

Why would Paulus misidentify Williams as being from the FBI?

Because he's invoking jurisdictional turf to isolate the HT Family and put Aruban polis on notice that their zone of operation has been invaded by an outside law enforcement agency.  Thereby shutting down what's "admissable" during these conversations and re-enactments during the early hours of May 31, 2005, i.e. any conversation w/ Williams is disallowed.

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Oh so well said...and also to create real animosity for the Twittys...... In my opinion, this tactic tells me that Paulus knew everything that happened to Natalee and that they were all in deep doo doo. He's immediately using tactical warfare.

[mrs. red]

James Hicks.....Etna or Newport, Maine --- No body no case.....see A&E tv for info. It CAN HAPPEN.....NO BODY NO CASE can be disputed!!!!! I lived in Newport, Maine all my life. It was where I was raised. If you go to A&E tv and get the 'james hicks' story.......you can see how we all can prove.....NO BODY, NO CASE.

Sante and Kenneth Kimes mother and son, also convicted with no body no case....

In jail for life.

Weren't they the Grifters??  from the movie??  Larry's book talks alot about that case.. very interesting stuff....

[the big hammer]

EX-DEA Agent Eric Williams

Eric Willaims, at the time he accompanied HT family to sloot house and HI on 5/31, was NOT even an active member of the DEA force.

He was either in another job or retired.  

He is described as "EX DEA Agent".

You see what paulus was doing?  He isolated HT Family, put Aruban polis in cautious and potentially confrontational position in listening to HT info, and set up a situation which would later contribute to lackadasical polis action (Why help the HT family? Before they even came to local Aruban polis, they had the US FBI w/ them...if the FBI is so good, let them help HT family...).

Not only that, as mentioned before, he is calling the whole 5/31 meeting and re-enactment into question re: the status of its usefulness and admissability in a courtroom.

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[Jacqueline]

James Hicks.....Etna or Newport, Maine --- No body no case.....see A&E tv for info. It CAN HAPPEN.....NO BODY NO CASE can be disputed!!!!! I lived in Newport, Maine all my life. It was where I was raised. If you go to A&E tv and get the 'james hicks' story.......you can see how we all can prove.....NO BODY, NO CASE.

Sante and Kenneth Kimes mother and son, also convicted with no body no case....

In jail for life.

Weren't they the Grifters??  from the movie??  Larry's book talks alot about that case.. very interesting stuff....

I remember the movie (angelica houston???) but I'm not sure if it was modeled after these two...

Horrific Mother....The son never had a chance....

[Ono]

EX-DEA Agent Eric Williams

Eric Willaims, at the time he accompanied HT family to sloot house and HI on 5/31, was NOT even an active member of the DEA force.

He was either in another job or retired.  

He is described as "EX DEA Agent".

You see what paulus was doing?  He isolated HT Family, put Aruban polis in cautious and potentially confrontational position in listening to HT info, and set up a situation which would later contribute to lackadasical polis action (Why help the HT family? Before they even came to local Aruban polis, they had the US FBI w/ them...if the FBI is so good, let them help HT family...).

Not only that, as mentioned before, he is calling the whole 5/31 meeting and re-enactment into question re: the status of its usefulness and admissability in a courtroom.

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Paulus is quite the strategist, alright.  If they had all been innocent of wrongdoing, there would have been no need for this ploy.

[sharon]

iirc -- Paulus is well known for weaseling his way through life on 'technicalities'.

pos

[Jacqueline]

James Hicks.....Etna or Newport, Maine --- No body no case.....see A&E tv for info. It CAN HAPPEN.....NO BODY NO CASE can be disputed!!!!! I lived in Newport, Maine all my life. It was where I was raised. If you go to A&E tv and get the 'james hicks' story.......you can see how we all can prove.....NO BODY, NO CASE.

Sante and Kenneth Kimes mother and son, also convicted with no body no case....

In jail for life.

Weren't they the Grifters??  from the movie??  Larry's book talks alot about that case.. very interesting stuff....

http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/women/kimes/1.html

[justinsmama]

Wow, Jaque! That woman reminds me of someone I know, though her crimes are on a much smaller scale. The way of thinking and the conning are the same. Ewwww.

[San]

James Hicks.....Etna or Newport, Maine --- No body no case.....see A&E tv for info. It CAN HAPPEN.....NO BODY NO CASE can be disputed!!!!! I lived in Newport, Maine all my life. It was where I was raised. If you go to A&E tv and get the 'james hicks' story.......you can see how we all can prove.....NO BODY, NO CASE.

Sante and Kenneth Kimes mother and son, also convicted with no body no case....

In jail for life.

Weren't they the Grifters??  from the movie??  Larry's book talks alot about that case.. very interesting stuff....

http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/women/kimes/1.html

I remember this case.  I hate that woman and her son.  Two nuts.

[msmarple]

I hate to say this, but I don't think the people in aruba care...

i think they have just gotten so used to the scam the tourists that it's just a way of life...

they would rather take a scammed happy meal that have the filet ... they don't even understand the difference anymore... it's become ingrained over time, IMO

In the beginning I really thought they cared, but after all of this...

Apparently missing and murdered people are expendable on that patch of sand.

Right it's just a patch of sand and a dirty one at that.  There are more beautiful places to see here in the United States.  We as Americans are not safe on those islands.  We know how they feel about us.  Just look how Van der Sloots think.  They are the biggest racists on two feet.  JMO.

Well Mrs. Red, Red his personal self came on board and revealed exactly who *kbm* is (an unusal event in and of itself). Then we had many posts challenging that identity, up to and including an accusation of being *SandraK*.  We had demands for additional personal information from him. We had posts claiming that *kbm" was sent here to distract us.

I don't know why *kbm* wanted to come here. I wish I knew. We don't exactly have an audience in Aruba.

My insight is that we need to get hard facts to the "normal" people there. The dialogue has been convoluted at best, and orchestrated by the wrong people at worst.

I certainly don't expect that coming here every day and patting ourselves on the back is going to accomplish much.

[justinsmama]

Back to talk about the case.

Again, I suspect that the trip around the block was to retrieve Natalee a second time. Dunno why I never made that connection before. Guess sometimes it just has to stew in my brain for awhile (like months   ).

[San]

I hate to say this, but I don't think the people in aruba care...

i think they have just gotten so used to the scam the tourists that it's just a way of life...

they would rather take a scammed happy meal that have the filet ... they don't even understand the difference anymore... it's become ingrained over time, IMO

In the beginning I really thought they cared, but after all of this...

Apparently missing and murdered people are expendable on that patch of sand.

Right it's just a patch of sand and a dirty one at that.  There are more beautiful places to see here in the United States.  We as Americans are not safe on those islands.  We know how they feel about us.  Just look how Van der Sloots think.  They are the biggest racists on two feet.  JMO.

Well Mrs. Red, Red his personal self came on board and revealed exactly who *kbm* is (an unusal event in and of itself). Then we had many posts challenging that identity, up to and including an accusation of being *SandraK*.  We had demands for additional personal information from him. We had posts claiming that *kbm" was sent here to distract us.

I don't know why *kbm* wanted to come here. I wish I knew. We don't exactly have an audience in Aruba.

My insight is that we need to get hard facts to the "normal" people there. The dialogue has been convoluted at best, and orchestrated by the wrong people at worst.

I certainly don't expect that coming here every day and patting ourselves on the back is going to accomplish much.

What is puzzling to me is that Jossy Mansur has the biggest newspaper on the island.  How hard is it to put a link in his paper requesting the Aruban people to view the statements on this site.  If they don't have access to a computer maybe he can show one statement in his paper for the people to read and judge for themselves.

[mrs. red]

James Hicks.....Etna or Newport, Maine --- No body no case.....see A&E tv for info. It CAN HAPPEN.....NO BODY NO CASE can be disputed!!!!! I lived in Newport, Maine all my life. It was where I was raised. If you go to A&E tv and get the 'james hicks' story.......you can see how we all can prove.....NO BODY, NO CASE.

Sante and Kenneth Kimes mother and son, also convicted with no body no case....

In jail for life.

Weren't they the Grifters??  from the movie??  Larry's book talks alot about that case.. very interesting stuff....

I remember the movie (angelica houston???) but I'm not sure if it was modeled after these two...

Horrific Mother....The son never had a chance....

yes... it was!!

[msmarple]

What is puzzling to me is that Jossy Mansur has the biggest newspaper on the island.  How hard is it to put a link in his paper requesting the Aruban people to view the statements on this site.  If they don't have access to a computer maybe he can show one statement in his paper for the people to read and judge for themselves.

San - I would like to pursue this; have thought about it before but not acted on it. (For one thing, I need to know how to contact Jossy.)

I think we would need to make people WANT to do some reading. Maybe some ads. I will PAY for them.

We need to pick the most viable, attention-demanding aspect of the statements. I mentioned two in my earlier post; suggestions welcome. We need them correctly translated into Pap, and also use the exact same text in the Dutch versions.

Then include the links to the appropriate supporting statements in the ad.

[2NJSons_Mom]

Well Mrs. Red, Red his personal self came on board and revealed exactly who *kbm* is (an unusal event in and of itself). Then we had many posts challenging that identity, up to and including an accusation of being *SandraK*.  We had demands for additional personal information from him. We had posts claiming that *kbm" was sent here to distract us.

I don't know why *kbm* wanted to come here. I wish I knew. We don't exactly have an audience in Aruba.

My insight is that we need to get hard facts to the "normal" people there. The dialogue has been convoluted at best, and orchestrated by the wrong people at worst.

I certainly don't expect that coming here every day and patting ourselves on the back is going to accomplish much.

What is puzzling to me is that Jossy Mansur has the biggest newspaper on the island.  How hard is it to put a link in his paper requesting the Aruban people to view the statements on this site.  If they don't have access to a computer maybe he can show one statement in his paper for the people to read and judge for themselves.

Since we do not know where these statements were acquired or from whom, perhaps legally, he may have reservations.  I understand what you are saying, San, but I'm just thinking of his position and their laws.  Of course, the statements in Dutch would be easily read by most Arubans, I would think, if he has them at hand.  

Hope I'm making sense.