Lively Case Discussion #538 10/26 - 10/29/2005

[LilPuma]

Dihannah1 - Thanks, not a genious though..just stubborn enough to keep playing around until I figure it out..ha ha

Shouldn't there be a scene of Anita frantically calling Uncle Jan van der Straaten in the background?  

[mishy]

Yeah, I wonder now, if deep throat ever existed....  though I would love to be wrong...

Good morning Tink! Haven't seen you in awhile...How ya doing?

How are all you monkeys out there doing today? I forgot it was DST until just a few minutes ago  

[Buckeye]

I'm just putting this here so I can find it later.  I've copied parts of Greta transcript from May 23 2006 from Heli (at the darkside).  There will be no link but I'm sure we have it.  It regards Guido.  They searched his fathers' house and removed items.  Now, if they can't search the main house of the main suspect, why, 9 months after the fact (with the best attorney in Holland) can they search Guido's house?? I remeber our discussions about his ATV also.  

tito

Legally, they still think he's a suspect but they didn't have anything legal to convince a Judge to keep him they didn't want to lose face, Breaking news, I was told by my source they had a house search at his home and confiscated some items and so you may not have heard the last of Guido Wever

From same interview...weren't we wondering who they brought in early on??

Spong
June last year he was first a witness, he gave 5 witness statements 3 in aruba 2 in Holland. Months later 5 witness came with story that they say scratches were on his face of 6 cm long, very deep which were looking like they caused by human nails. Very strange that those statements were delivered 9 months after the fact. He was questioned on Aruba 3 days after Natalee disappeared and nobody from ALE has seen those scratches so it's a fake story

Would love to see Freddy and Guido's statements.

[LilPuma]

I want to know why Charlie Croes went up to the lighthouse.
Also, the chaperone called the police station and found out that the beach patrol had not reported Natalee missing.

What I would like to know-

Which scuba company did the MB students use?

One that employs Geoffrey?
Is he the "local guy" seen with Natalee?
And, Charles Croes...
Which beach did he know to find a group of boys at...2 am on a Tues.?
Arashi beach?  Where Deepak had stopped the night before?

"Joran said" they were 300 yards from the Marriott...
Why not have his ride pick him up there?

I do think that GVC was the guy Natalee rebuffed, with help from the MB guys.  Joran also had a little tiff with some MB guys.  IMO, Joran was out to get Natalee because his sociopathic mind made him want to get even with the MB teens for at least 2 incidents with these kids.  

I think it's crazy to think that either of the Kalpoes would pick Joran up at home, drive to C&C, drive around with Natalee, drive Joran and Natalee to the beach, go home, then go out again later to pick Joran up, take him home and then drive themselves home, all for a "yard".  A good friend might do that for a guy and his girl, but not for a guy with a girl he met at a bar that night.  It just doesn't add up.  

[Ono]

Well, however it happened, IMO bottom line: Natalee was deceived and thought she was getting a ride back to the Holiday Inn with Joran in his taxi ..(so the subject of the fare never entered her mind)....If it was Deepak or Satish who retreived her from C & C's and then steered and walked her to the "taxi", she was most likely told that the big tall fellow sent for her ? This would be logical, as after all, Joran had been portraying himself to be just another Holiday Inn student tourist to Natalee and the Mountain Brook group.

This whole case is about Joran's lies.  He started his lies the moment the MB kids went to the poker table.  Imagine the nerve it takes to kidnap someone.  He didn't care that day he just wanted his way no matter what.  Natalee fought and Joran killed her.  The Kalpoes are a waste of life.

And what gets me is, lying seems to be a way of life there, regardless of the seriousness of those lies. It's astounding that there seems to be no repect for God and no love of telling the truth.

[Leslie]

I think the Kalpoe's were honoured that a rich Dutch judge's son would include them in his elite group and were under the impression that any favours given would be paid back.   That was a real Upstairs, Downstairs friendship with Joran who outclassed them in every respect.   Sadly, they could not foresee the payback for their lop-sided relationship was a trip to KIA, a life time of being treated like lepers with the stigma of guilt always surrounding them.  
Joran just keeps on using people until he uses them up.

[LilPuma]

I think the Kalpoe's were honoured that a rich Dutch judge's son would include them in his elite group and were under the impression that any favours given would be paid back.   That was a real Upstairs, Downstairs friendship with Joran who outclassed them in every respect.   Sadly, they could not foresee the payback for their lop-sided relationship was a trip to KIA, a life time of being treated like lepers with the stigma of guilt always surrounding them.  
Joran just keeps on using people until he uses them up.

You could be right.  

I just started re-reading Paulus' statement and while probably insignificant, I noticed that Paulus said when Joran was questioned by police on the 31st, he was speaking in Papamiento and the investigators translated it into Dutch.  Why wouldn't he speak Dutch?  Again, I don't know if it's important, but it's one of those little oddities.  

BBL

[San]

FROM PAULUS VAN DER SLOOT'S 6/23/05 STATEMENT:

To your question if I tell you all the things I did on that
Monday the 30th of May 2005, I can state the following. I went to work.
The exact time I cannot remember but I think it was approximately
08.00 hours. I can also remember that around 10.00 hours I went
to the

C.M.B. bank. There were long cues at the bank so I left without
having made any transaction and went back to work. I left my workplace
at approximately 15.00 hours. I arrived at the bank at approximately 15.30.
I had gone to the C.M.B. bank that is situated in Noord. [/list]

How do we know that this is the only bank that the Van der Sloot's have an account in.  It is not uncommon to have two bank accounts.  Could Paulus be mentioning this bank because he knows that there were no ATM withdrawal transactions made from this particular account.  So if any bank questions come up (which they did) he is going to say yes I did make a transaction from that bank but it was at 15.30.  What if the 15.30 he is mentioning was really the time of the actual ATM transaction from his other bank account (5:30am).

I hope I making sense in what I'm saying.

[BTgirl]

FROM PAULUS VAN DER SLOOT'S 6/23/05 STATEMENT:

To your question if I tell you all the things I did on that
Monday the 30th of May 2005, I can state the following. I went to work.
The exact time I cannot remember but I think it was approximately
08.00 hours. I can also remember that around 10.00 hours I went
to the

C.M.B. bank. There were long cues at the bank so I left without
having made any transaction and went back to work. I left my workplace
at approximately 15.00 hours. I arrived at the bank at approximately 15.30.
I had gone to the C.M.B. bank that is situated in Noord. [/list]

How do we know that this is the only bank that the Van der Sloot's have an account in.  It is not uncommon to have two bank accounts.  Could Paulus be mentioning this bank because he knows that there were no ATM withdrawal transactions made from this particular account.  So if any bank questions come up (which they did) he is going to say yes I did make a transaction from that bank but it was at 15.30.  What if the 15.30 he is mentioning was really the time of the actual ATM transaction from his other bank account (5:30am).

I hope I making sense in what I'm saying.

That's a very good point, San. When Simon's dad died, we had to take copies of the death certificate to every bank on the island where he lived to find out where all he had bank accounts. Even Simon's mom didn't know.

[San]

Shango Says:
June 30th, 2005 at 2:07 am
If the keystone falls, it will crush the lamb, the shivas, and the elder
the noise of the crashing arch shall scare the lions from their den
DirtyHand is the key to All!

The Natural Bridge collapses on September 2, 2005

Joran is released from Kia on September 4, 2005
   

Who are the elders?  So far we have seen all the sons of the elders arrested in this case.

JVDS
Freddy
Jaime
GVC
Guido Wever
Sander & Koen Gottenbos

All these fathers have power on that island.  It was even mentioned that Jan der Straten had a son.  I am probably missing a few but I think we get the picture.

The Kalpoes are involved but they have evidence of what happened so they are automatically protected.  They are not going to kill the Kalpoes because the whole world is watching.  JMO.

[Smish]

justinsmama wrote:  As for a possible connection that I made~
Deepak initially parked in the taxi queue.
Nat was 1st culled from the MBs by Joran.
Nat got away from them and returned to CnCs, looking for her friends (drugged and very confused).
Deepak circled the block, looking for her, parked in the rear of the bar, and went in to retrieve Natalee.
_________________
I think Deepak parked in an alley beside or behind C&C's facing the building and was the only vehicle in that location.   Taxi's in Aruba can look like ordinary cars but have a "Taxi" sign on the dashboard facing out, that is only visible at the front of the vehicle.   Walking beside or behind Deepak's car would not tell you if it was a taxi or not.  Most people would park along the side of a building so that their car would not block the alleyway which is usually narrow and the access for the rear of the building.  I doubt if it was in the plan for Natalee to leave Joran and return to the bar to look for her friends.  If she did get away, why didn't she find her friends?  I think Joran walked with Natalee to the car with Satish following behind them but not with them.  I think Joran and Natalee got into a car that she assumed was a taxi, with Deepak acting the part of a taxi driver and left.  Whether Satish was with them at that point or jumped in the car after the first trip around the block is debatable.  
Did the subject of who was going to pay for this taxi ride ever come up?

I agree with this,I think Joran told Natalee he had a taxi already and that he would share it with her.I think Satish was with them,he got into the taxi(letting Nat sit in the back with Joran,maybe Satish also playing the role of Joran's friend needing a taxi).I think Deepak circled around the block a few times looking for someone who was supposed to be there....waiting....waiting for the next phase of this"PIMP game" to be played out.I wonder who that person was?Is it known if Deepak stopped at another club while Natalee was in the car?

[Smish]

I doubt that the "fare" ever came into discussion. I've always thought that parking in the queue was more for the appearnce of a taxi to not only Nat, but any witnesses.

Nat's friends were all gone by the time she got away from them.

My "connection" accounts for MB reports of what they saw (Nat exiting with and behind friends with Joran standing beside her; and also seen coming out of CnCs a second time to look around, go back in and then led out by Deepak).

I doubt that J2K would risk someone else thinking they are a taxi by parking in the queue.What if Deepak WAS parked where the other taxi's park and someone else jumped into his taxi?

[San]

REMINDER:

Sunday, October 29 at 4 p.m. ET
Hosted by Greta Van Susteren

What happened to Natalee Holloway?

An Alabama teenager goes missing on a school trip to Aruba. She is last seen leaving a popular nightclub with three local boys who provide conflicting stories about what happened next. Within twenty-four hours, her family is on the island, putting pressure on the boys, their parents and local police for answers. And Greta Van Susteren and FOX News are with them.

We've been investigating from the beginning. Join FOX News as we put together all that we've learned. The missed opportunities, false leads and outright lies that have plagued this investigation from the beginning are revealed in a one-hour, "Crime Scene" special. Joran Van Der Sloot, still the prime suspect, gives his version of his last moments with Natalee. It's an account that has never been corroborated by anyone else.

Everyone has seen bits and pieces of this story. When you put them all together, they form a picture of what might have been the perfect crime.

[Kat_Gram]

I think the Kalpoe's were honoured that a rich Dutch judge's son would include them in his elite group and were under the impression that any favours given would be paid back.   That was a real Upstairs, Downstairs friendship with Joran who outclassed them in every respect.   Sadly, they could not foresee the payback for their lop-sided relationship was a trip to KIA, a life time of being treated like lepers with the stigma of guilt always surrounding them.  
Joran just keeps on using people until he uses them up.

I had never though in terms of that program, but the relationship is a clasic Greek Tragedy.
Always thought here was quite a bit of envy on the Kalpoes part. Joran had what they wanted and by being with him they felt it rubbed off. Bill Shakespeare could do it up proper. Except, there are no heroes, no
schmucks who turn into heros. No knights in shining armour either.
ps
If I make some spelling mistakes, please do not think that I am Sandra K.

[Nut44x4]

REMINDER:

Sunday, October 29 at 4 p.m. ET
Hosted by Greta Van Susteren

What happened to Natalee Holloway?

An Alabama teenager goes missing on a school trip to Aruba. She is last seen leaving a popular nightclub with three local boys who provide conflicting stories about what happened next. Within twenty-four hours, her family is on the island, putting pressure on the boys, their parents and local police for answers. And Greta Van Susteren and FOX News are with them.

We've been investigating from the beginning. Join FOX News as we put together all that we've learned. The missed opportunities, false leads and outright lies that have plagued this investigation from the beginning are revealed in a one-hour, "Crime Scene" special. Joran Van Der Sloot, still the prime suspect, gives his version of his last moments with Natalee. It's an account that has never been corroborated by anyone else.

Everyone has seen bits and pieces of this story. When you put them all together, they form a picture of what might have been the perfect crime.

IMHO it will be a repeat show of what we all saw a few months back. Fox likes to fill in' on weekends with repeat shows. I doubt anything new will be on this segment. If there is, it will have been added to the original programming that we all saw a while back.....still nothing new to us. I have lost interest in Greta over the past 6 months or more...she isn't into it. As a matter of fact, she isn't into anything. You can tell by the way she reports. Is she near retirement? She always sounds so bored by her stories when I watched her last...

[Smish]

Well, however it happened, IMO bottom line: Natalee was deceived and thought she was getting a ride back to the Holiday Inn with Joran in his taxi ..(so the subject of the fare never entered her mind)....If it was Deepak or Satish who retreived her from C & C's and then steered and walked her to the "taxi", she was most likely told that the big tall fellow sent for her ? This would be logical, as after all, Joran had been portraying himself to be just another Holiday Inn student tourist to Natalee and the Mountain Brook group.

What I don't understand about this:
Joran was portraying himself as a Dutch student sporter and may have even stated to the Bama kids that he was staying in the Holiday Inn also.
IF that was in fact Paulus sitting at the casino table talking to Nat,wouldn't Paulus had said that Joran is my son(Nat was pointing toward Joran while talking to this guy)and wouldn't Paulus had said they live on the once happy island?Or IF that was Paulus,would he had said that the vds family was visiting Aruba?IF so then that would implicate Paulus even more than he is already implicated in this case.That would mean that Paulus is involved in the PIMPs game from the start,IMO

[San]

OK I just received my 12th tribalfusion pop up.  I am about to throw my computer on the floor.  So before I do that I'm signing off.

[Leslie]

Kat_Gram: Not SandraK, eh?    Lier lier pants on fier!  The Kalpoe's were damn lucky that both on them were aboard that night or else Deepak would be sitting in KIA right now serving 15 years.

Smish wrote:  What if Deepak WAS parked where the other taxi's park and someone else jumped into his taxi?
---
That sounds like a comedy movie.   That's funny!   Somebody big tough hombre gets in to his "cab" and tells him to drive him to Savaneta.  Don't you wish that was what happened?

[Smish]

Kat_Gram: Not SandraK, eh?    Lier lier pants on fier!  The Kalpoe's were damn lucky that both on them were aboard that night or else Deepak would be sitting in KIA right now serving 15 years.

Smish wrote:  What if Deepak WAS parked where the other taxi's park and someone else jumped into his taxi?
---
That sounds like a comedy movie.   That's funny!   Somebody big tough hombre gets in to his "cab" and tells him to drive him to Savaneta.  Don't you wish that was what happened?

LOL....Oh for sure,for sure.

[Leslie]

Well, however it happened, IMO bottom line: Natalee was deceived and thought she was getting a ride back to the Holiday Inn with Joran in his taxi ..(so the subject of the fare never entered her mind)....If it was Deepak or Satish who retreived her from C & C's and then steered and walked her to the "taxi", she was most likely told that the big tall fellow sent for her ? This would be logical, as after all, Joran had been portraying himself to be just another Holiday Inn student tourist to Natalee and the Mountain Brook group.

What I don't understand about this:
Joran was portraying himself as a Dutch student sporter and may have even stated to the Bama kids that he was staying in the Holiday Inn also.
IF that was in fact Paulus sitting at the casino table talking to Nat,wouldn't Paulus had said that Joran is my son(Nat was pointing toward Joran while talking to this guy)and wouldn't Paulus had said they live on the once happy island?Or IF that was Paulus,would he had said that the vds family was visiting Aruba?IF so then that would implicate Paulus even more than he is already implicated in this case.That would mean that Paulus is involved in the PIMPs game from the start,IMO

Paul could not have told Natalee the truth that Joran was his son because then she then would have known Joran was not staying at the Holiday Inn and Natalee would have remarked on this to her friends.  "You know that tall guy says he is an exchange student from Holland - well I just met his father" Paul has proven to be a dishonest person and could have told her anything.  She might have been making a gesture towards her friend Ruth and not Joran.  
Interesting that none of her friends noticed that she had been talking to an older man at the gambling table and asked her what they had discussed or remembered if this man had a foreign accent.