Lively Case Discussion #538 10/26 - 10/29/2005

[Kat_Gram]

Deepak parking in the back of C & C's is consistent with the pre meditation thing, to me anyway.
Joran was hanging around with the MB crowd and told them he was a student from Holland. Is friendly, becomes a familair face. Is not a threat. Phones ppl, tells them about the American girls.
The car is in the back, no one who is in front at closing time is going to see a girl get into the car, or get a chance to perhaps study the car.
They did this 20 x before.

[Buckeye]

Leslie

One of the FBI statements does have one of the girls mention the "older man" at the table.  Now, of course, these statements were attached in the Joe Taco papers....so if there was further discussion to FBI, I'm sure that statement did not make the filings.

[Smish]

Well, however it happened, IMO bottom line: Natalee was deceived and thought she was getting a ride back to the Holiday Inn with Joran in his taxi ..(so the subject of the fare never entered her mind)....If it was Deepak or Satish who retreived her from C & C's and then steered and walked her to the "taxi", she was most likely told that the big tall fellow sent for her ? This would be logical, as after all, Joran had been portraying himself to be just another Holiday Inn student tourist to Natalee and the Mountain Brook group.

What I don't understand about this:
Joran was portraying himself as a Dutch student sporter and may have even stated to the Bama kids that he was staying in the Holiday Inn also.
IF that was in fact Paulus sitting at the casino table talking to Nat,wouldn't Paulus had said that Joran is my son(Nat was pointing toward Joran while talking to this guy)and wouldn't Paulus had said they live on the once happy island?Or IF that was Paulus,would he had said that the vds family was visiting Aruba?IF so then that would implicate Paulus even more than he is already implicated in this case.That would mean that Paulus is involved in the PIMPs game from the start,IMO

Paul could not have told Natalee the truth that Joran was his son because then she then would have known Joran was not staying at the Holiday Inn and Natalee would have remarked on this to her friends.  "You know that tall guy says he is an exchange student from Holland - well I just met his father" Paul has proven to be a dishonest person and could have told her anything.  She might have been making a gesture towards her friend Ruth and not Joran.  
Interesting that none of her friends noticed that she had been talking to an older man at the gambling table and asked her what they had discussed or remembered if this man had a foreign accent.

Couldn't Paulus had said"Thats my son playing there.We are staying here in the HI"?I also wonder IF the Bama kids made any statements about whether that was Paulus sitting there or not.....IF it wasn't Paulus or if it was,the girls were sitting close enough to Nat and this man to hear some of their conversation.

[Smish]

Deepak parking in the back of C & C's is consistent with the pre meditation thing, to me anyway.
Joran was hanging around with the MB crowd and told them he was a student from Holland. Is friendly, becomes a familair face. Is not a threat. Phones ppl, tells them about the American girls.
The car is in the back, no one who is in front at closing time is going to see a girl get into the car, or get a chance to perhaps study the car.
They did this 20 x before.

I'm almost positive C&C's has a back door.They could have taken her out the back door,that would explain no one seeing Nat actually getting into the Kalpoe taxi.But what time was Nat seen out in front of C&C's?

[Leslie]

If Aruban guys think that American girls are so "easy", why do they have to lie to them, try to get them drunk,  slip drugs in their drinks,  pretend their friend's car is a taxi and force themselves on them to get some action?
It seems there are enough local gals who will give oral sex on the pier and some kind of sex in the bathroom of the kareoke club and sex in the back of parked cars that they would leave those "slutty" tourists alone!

[Smish]

If Aruban guys think that American girls are so "easy", why do they have to lie to them, try to get them drunk,  slip drugs in their drinks,  pretend their friend's car is a taxi and force themselves on them to get some action?
It seems there are enough local gals who will give oral sex on the pier and some kind of sex in the bathroom of the kareoke club and sex in the back of parked cars that they would leave those "slutty" tourists alone!

I don't believe these guys have respect for ANY women.I think they practice their PIMP games on the island girls and perfect it for the real prize(to them)....doing the PIMP thing on the tourist girls.

[Kat_Gram]

I look at Joran and even tho I am older I see nothing attractive about him. Don't know how he got any girls. Now, I have such a low opinion of him he is even uglier.  Even at the beginning I thought he looked freakish
and wondered about his " attraction ". I know about can't judge a book by its cover but I thought he had something that you had to be young to "get ".

[Kat_Gram]

Well, maybe getting these girls out of C & C's is somehting to brag about
to the little kids at school the next day.

[Kat_Gram]

I was reading a bit about Jennifer Kesse as the Dad, Drew will be on Dana's show tonight.  Still no clue as to what happened to her. I had watched her parents on I guess Nancy Grace and they are another family that is living a nightmare that is becoming just all too familiar.

[Smish]

I look at Joran and even tho I am older I see nothing attractive about him. Don't know how he got any girls. Now, I have such a low opinion of him he is even uglier.  Even at the beginning I thought he looked freakish
and wondered about his " attraction ". I know about can't judge a book by its cover but I thought he had something that you had to be young to "get ".

Joran has always reminded me of Frankenstein.FrankenSloot.....but when you compare him to the Kalpoe's.....I guess I can see what some girls would see.

[Smish]

Well, maybe getting these girls out of C & C's is somehting to brag about
to the little kids at school the next day.

I think it is more sinister than that.I think the PIMPs are into making homemade movies....for sale and for trading.

[nonesuche]

Well, maybe getting these girls out of C & C's is somehting to brag about
to the little kids at school the next day.

I think it is more sinister than that.I think the PIMPs are into making homemade movies....for sale and for trading.

Smish, I tend to agree with you. You don't shut up an entire island for a judge wannabe.

[Kat_Gram]

One interesting tid bit from the Kawish thread was that there is another VIP club.
Did and I hate to even say SHANGO get it wrong or did everyone else get it wrong based on what he said ?
There was always the rumour that Deepak made a brief stop after Natalee was in the car. Could these two things have a connection ?

[Smish]

Well, maybe getting these girls out of C & C's is somehting to brag about
to the little kids at school the next day.

I think it is more sinister than that.I think the PIMPs are into making homemade movies....for sale and for trading.

Smish, I tend to agree with you. You don't shut up an entire island for a judge wannabe.

Thats for dang sure None.

[Anna]

Well, maybe getting these girls out of C & C's is something to brag about
to the little kids at school the next day.

I think it is more sinister than that.I think the PIMPs are into making homemade movies....for sale and for trading.

Smish, I tend to agree with you. You don't shut up an entire island for a judge wannabe.

Yes, even the school children are raping, sodomizing girls at school and taking photos with their cell phones to pass all around.  This is that common of a practice on Aruba. We have one documented case that that is not to say there are not others as well as the article on elders and school children in hotels that we heard no more about. I have always thought that this could be the intent for Natalee all along.  Perhaps that's why she may have been given just a little extra in the drugging department?

Imagine trying to report a rape there, too!  Over sixty percent of sexual assaults in THIS country the US of A where we have rape shield laws, well supposed to have unless the accused is a professional athlete such as Kobe Bryant--then pretty much anything goes--go unreported.  If a girl tried to report it and could not remember the details because of the drug imagine the reaction in Aruba.  She would be called names and jokes made while they munched their Frosted Flakes at the best and at the worst would be accused of a scam herself.

And this atavistic concept that the girl some how makes the male rape her sounds just like the Taliban.  Maybe all us evil women should be wearing veils and burkas so we do not tempt these helpless males into raping us?  Not on your life am I buying into this insanity and I hope no other women will either for it sets advances made by women back to the caveman era.  And so does most pornography that I have encountered researching this concept.  Almost exclusively the theme is some sort of violence directed at women.  Sick and disgusting mindset.

Lord of the Flies also took place on an island, didn't it?  Huummm. . . . .

[Florida]

One interesting tid bit from the Kawish thread was that there is another VIP club.
Did and I hate to even say SHANGO get it wrong or did everyone else get it wrong based on what he said ?
There was always the rumour that Deepak made a brief stop after Natalee was in the car. Could these two things have a connection ?

The V.I.P. Bar in Noord is in front of the Lion's Den
And owned by the Misier's
Joran would pass this area on his way home from the beach.

Thanks to vms for this search/The other VIP
THE VIP ROOM/ THE BEACH
L.G. SMITH BLVD. 2ND FLOOR, ORANJESTAD WEST

[Kat_Gram]

One interesting tid bit from the Kawish thread was that there is another VIP club.
Did and I hate to even say SHANGO get it wrong or did everyone else get it wrong based on what he said ?
There was always the rumour that Deepak made a brief stop after Natalee was in the car. Could these two things have a connection ?

..
THE VIP ROOM/ THE BEACH
L.G. SMITH BLVD. 2ND FLOOR, ORANJESTAD WEST
Link

[Anna]

KatGram,
We found the other VIP club long ago.  Seems it has a night club sort of place in it that the one belonging to Kawish's relative does not have.

But there doesn't seem to be any connection to lions at the other one.  Not a big Shango fan but also the sign out front of the star was mentioned by Shango.  Round lit fiber optic sign that seems in keeping with other Shango lines about follow the star, etc.

.

[Florida]

Insurance - Brokers & Consultants
Caribbean Mercantile Bank NV
Palmbeach 4B Noord
www.cmbnv.com

Thanks to Fast Rent House Aruba for this visual map!http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b223/NYSusan/Map-Noord.jpg

This is my interpretation of locations in GREEN
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b223/NYSusan/Map-Noord2.jpg

Jaime C. lives in Montanja & jogs in the morning to Wendy's
Wendy's is near the C.M.B. Bank
Alex Gottenbos is an insurance broker at I.C.A.

Did Paulus say he was in the bank with Rita his maid????

[Kat_Gram]

Where is the club on LG Smith Blvd. Is it close to anywhere that Deeapk could have stopped ?