Natalee Case Discussion #814 4/5/09 - 4/8/09

[jen3560]

Well, I'm just astounded...


First question is can the dates on these comments be faked?

Second question is can (would) the blog owner check the IPs of the commenters?

I can say with absolute certainty that the owner of that blog would in no way, shape or form have altered dates/times of the comments at her site.

I got to know her fairly well over the years of her posting Freebirds documents - and her integrity is top notch.

I will email her to see if she would be at all willing in looking into (and possibly sharing) any information she can find about those comments.

[jen3560]

LifeSong - In scrolling thru the articles at the Aruba Boycott site looking for that post by Deepak's 'cousin', I ran across this comment, and thought it very interesting - considering the date:


The puzzle solved is NATALEE FOUND said...

The wheel of fortunes is of the Persistence. The puzzle solved by Kyle is NATALEE FOUND.

December 29, 2007 12:37:00 AM EST
https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=19199597&postID=5767307859974282555&isPopup=true

In fact -many of the comments from that day are an interesting read..........

only someone ON the Persistence would have known that on Dec 29th. No one else could have possibly known. Or am I missing something here?

I think so too, Rob...OR someone in communication with someone on the Persistence. 

Not having been blessed with perhaps the sharpest sense of discretion, imo, its likely that Kyle could have bragged to told more than a few people...

At that same link:


world court deposition said...
The world cannot sleep tonight, including Aruba. There are more than 20 sites detected by the side scan sonar. The first container of bones will be examined and videoed by the ROV. The live video will be on Internet for the world to see. We will find Natalee Holloway in any of those crab traps at anytime tomorrow. This is a world court deposition and discovery process.

December 29, 2007 5:44:00 AM EST

[Buckeye]

 

[Tamikosmom]

LifeSong - In scrolling thru the articles at the Aruba Boycott site looking for that post by Deepak's 'cousin', I ran across this comment, and thought it very interesting - considering the date:


The puzzle solved is NATALEE FOUND said...

The wheel of fortunes is of the Persistence. The puzzle solved by Kyle is NATALEE FOUND.

December 29, 2007 12:37:00 AM EST
https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=19199597&postID=5767307859974282555&isPopup=true

In fact -many of the comments from that day are an interesting read..........

Jen

Could it be that Kyle Kingman ... in his excitement was leaking the info pertaining to his sonar discovery and ... those who were in receipt of this revelation were themselves leaking.

When I consider Kyle Kingman's many posts to the Natalee's Freebirds following the January 7th recovery ... I have come to the conclusion that Kyle Kingman has a problem with discreet and therefore ... cannot be trusted with anything confidential.

Janet 

[MuffyBee]

Searching's Dad has passed on.  Here is the link in the Lounge for prayers and condolences:

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4826.msg0#new

[jen3560]

I have always believed Silvetti meant there were multiple dives made on THIS cage.  I know others have come away with a different interpretation, but those comments we just found further enforce (for me) that Persistence dove on that cage before Dec 29th......."several" times.


Special Notice:
By John Silvetti-

The original search area surveyed by the R/V Persistence was selected based on numerous pieces of information provided by Dave Holloway, Tim Miller, investigations, interrogations, depositions and other information from local authorities. After compiling and reviewing the information, the search area was selected by Louis Schaefer and John Silvetti. Upon completion of the sonar runs in this area, 65 ROV dives were performed by Offshore Innovative Solutions (OIS) on targets identified by sonar. Divers from the Aruban Police Diving Division and Underwater Expeditions made several dives and retrieved samples which were delivered for analysis. Several targets in this first survey grid yet remain to be investigated by ROV which will occur in approximately one week when ROV dive operations recommence.
 
snipped http://nholloway.blogspot.com/

------------

Which now brings me to a new question.

We know Tim Trahan was the diver for Underwater Expeditions, and that he dove on the trap on Dec 30th.  (More times?)

WHO was the diver (divers?) for Offshore Innovative Solutions (OIS) who made 65 dives on targets - and when were those dives made, and on WHAT targets?

[jen3560]

Wed 02-Jan- 1920 hrs

The first round of ROV dives are complete.
The Persistence leaves the dock at 0650 hrs. The relentless wind is SE 25-30 kts with 6-8ft swells and 3-4ft wind waves. The two wave forms occasionally add together producing impressive swells which toss around anything that isn’t dogged down. Simple tasks such as taking a shower become complicated and awkward. By now, the search team is well-seasoned to the conditions and terrain. The new grid poses new challenges but provides another chapter to be read. Inch by inch, mile by mile the search continues forward and the data is good.
http://nholloway.blogspot.com/search?updated-max=2008-01-17T21%3A29%3A00-05%3A00&max-results=7

[jen3560]

I have always believed Silvetti meant there were multiple dives made on THIS cage.  I know others have come away with a different interpretation, but those comments we just found further enforce (for me) that Persistence dove on that cage before Dec 29th......."several" times.


Special Notice:
By John Silvetti-

The original search area surveyed by the R/V Persistence was selected based on numerous pieces of information provided by Dave Holloway, Tim Miller, investigations, interrogations, depositions and other information from local authorities. After compiling and reviewing the information, the search area was selected by Louis Schaefer and John Silvetti. Upon completion of the sonar runs in this area, 65 ROV dives were performed by Offshore Innovative Solutions (OIS) on targets identified by sonar. Divers from the Aruban Police Diving Division and Underwater Expeditions made several dives and retrieved samples which were delivered for analysis. Several targets in this first survey grid yet remain to be investigated by ROV which will occur in approximately one week when ROV dive operations recommence.
 
snipped http://nholloway.blogspot.com/

------------

Which now brings me to a new question.

We know Tim Trahan was the diver for Underwater Expeditions, and that he dove on the trap on Dec 30th.  (More times?)

WHO was the diver (divers?) for Offshore Innovative Solutions (OIS) who made 65 dives on targets - and when were those dives made, and on WHAT targets?

OK - I fubarred this one.  After I thought about it, I realized there likely were no divers for this.  Just the ROV. 

[jen3560]

LifeSong - In scrolling thru the articles at the Aruba Boycott site looking for that post by Deepak's 'cousin', I ran across this comment, and thought it very interesting - considering the date:


The puzzle solved is NATALEE FOUND said...

The wheel of fortunes is of the Persistence. The puzzle solved by Kyle is NATALEE FOUND.

December 29, 2007 12:37:00 AM EST
https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=19199597&postID=5767307859974282555&isPopup=true

In fact -many of the comments from that day are an interesting read..........

Jen

Could it be that Kyle Kingman ... in his excitement was leaking the info pertaining to his sonar discovery and ... those who were in receipt of this revelation were themselves leaking.

When I consider Kyle Kingman's many posts to the Natalee's Freebirds following the January 7th recovery ... I have come to the conclusion that Kyle Kingman has a problem with discreet and therefore ... cannot be trusted with anything confidential.

Janet 

Janet - yes, I think that is exactly what was going on.

[Lifesong]

While I was tossing and turning last night ... I was thinking about the post that Lifesong submitted in the last thread regarding Robin Holloway claiming on January 23, 2008 that her and Dave were informed that nothing Natalee related found in the trap a "few weeks ago".

Considering the FBI received the sample/s on January 22, 2008 ... one day prior to Robin's post ... it seems very unlikely it was the FBI who informed the Holloways that nothing Natalee Related was found in the trap.  In other words ... the Aruban's were again using the Holloways to further the coverup agenda.

When I consider ... Kyle Kingman's own words ... the Arubans who made the visual dive on December 30th ... made that claim there was nothing Natalee related.  Tim Trahan made the claim there was nothing Natalee related.  Tim Miller informed Dave and Beth there was was nothing Natalee related.

Could it be that after the Holloways learned of Kyle Kingman's concerns and the existence of the ROV images which were sent to the FBI ... maybe Dave and Robin both began to suspect that Natalee's remains could have been in that cage?.  This is my hope.

Think about it.  In March, 2008 ... the ROV images which Dave received from the FBI were posted by Robin on the BNH private site and ... I do believe that nothing trap related has come from Robin at BNF or Dave in the talk show circuit since.

Janet

++++++

Keep in mind, Robin posted the pictures on 2/26.  The pond was scanned on 2/27. 
Could be coincidence, I just don't think so.  I still think it is possible that by then The Holloways already knew the pond was a lost cause and published the pictures.

JMO and only MO

[Tamikosmom]

The implication of the following post submitted to Boycott Aruba is that Kyle Kingman was fabricating in his post to the SM site ... the post that implied that he discovered the trap on sonar on Christmas day.

 

Janet

++++++

BOYCOTT ARUBA--JUSTICE FOR NATALEE

December 18, 2007

Comments:

DEA can fire on ALE said...
ALE are tapping on the cellphone towers to listen on Persistence's wireless. They bugged the timeshare like Mos did without a court order. Periscopes are mounted on top of the high rises to watch the crew and operations. The Dutch spy satellite is tracking every inch of Persistence's movement. They are very unhappy about the clear sonar images. One image is of a drug submarine sunked by the coast guard. The other one image is the anchor and chain used to weight down a crab cage of a missing American's body. The crab cage is somewhere separated and sitting nearby. Persistence did not provide that image. It may be Natalee is inside the cage. This morning is super emotional and silent. John, Tim and Kyle are studying the closer snapshot of the crab cage. Something look like tennis shoes and a big knife inside. Some bones with some blue fabric around them. Most likely they belong to Natalee. The ALE are waiting for the warrant signed by judge Bob Witt to board Persistence and take over. However, the Persistence has the protection of the DEA helicopters. They can fire the hellfire missiles on the ALE boats. Aruba wants to make Persistence an international crisis to coverup it's cold case.

December 21, 2007 11:33:00 AM EST

http://arubanboycott.blogspot.com/2007/12/just-in-natalees-case-closed.html

Credit: Jen


oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #777 11/21/08 thru
« Reply #707 on: November 23, 2008, 03:31:18 PM »

I found the trap sonar target at 1:42 am on Christmas morning.  I was asked if I had any targets to investigate with the ROV on Dev 29th.  I did.  We then performed the 1st ROV dive and confirmed the sonar target was the trap.  This was the first ROV dive performed.  No other dives were performed prior to this.  I kept the sonar target list very confidential.  I didn't need people knowing about it and people on board knew well enough not even to ask.  When it was time to dive I have the target location. Until then, it was kept confidential.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4159.msg554268;topicseen#msg554268

[Lifesong]

Wed 02-Jan- 1920 hrs

The first round of ROV dives are complete.
The Persistence leaves the dock at 0650 hrs. The relentless wind is SE 25-30 kts with 6-8ft swells and 3-4ft wind waves. The two wave forms occasionally add together producing impressive swells which toss around anything that isn’t dogged down. Simple tasks such as taking a shower become complicated and awkward. By now, the search team is well-seasoned to the conditions and terrain. The new grid poses new challenges but provides another chapter to be read. Inch by inch, mile by mile the search continues forward and the data is good.
http://nholloway.blogspot.com/search?updated-max=2008-01-17T21%3A29%3A00-05%3A00&max-results=7

12/31/2007
Mon 31-Dec - 1022hrs - The Persistence spent yesterday performing multiple dives with the ROV.  The purpose of the dives is for collecting video of each sonar target. Typically, the sonar target is quickly identified and ruled out from the ROV video. The ROV operations lasted until dusk, where we resumed sonar survey operations through the night. Today, we are performing more ROV dives on targets of potential interest.


1/25/2008
 
The Search Grid has been Expanded
 Kyle Kingman: "We're being fed misinformation to keep us searching and out of their way while they cover their asses, destroy evidence, cover their tracks, and keep us out at sea and away from the trap."

Special Notice: By John Silvetti – “The original search area surveyed by the R/V Persistence was selected based on numerous pieces of information provided by Dave Holloway, Tim Miller, investigations, interrogations, depositions and other information from local authorities. After compiling and reviewing the information, the search area was selected by Louis Schaefer and John Silvetti. Upon completion of the sonar runs in this area, 65 ROV dives were performed by Offshore Innovative Solutions (OIS) on targets identified by sonar. Divers from the Aruban Police Diving Division and Underwater Expeditions made several dives and retrieved samples which were delivered for analysis. Several targets in this first survey grid yet remain to be investigated by ROV which will occur in approximately one week when ROV dive operations recommence.  Selection of the next area, the “Extended Search Area”, was based on one single piece of information, a reported confession by one of the three suspects. This confession, as relayed to the survey team, has some credence. It involves the same type of disposal scenario, but better defines the search area.”

Months later [see 04/03/2008], John Silvetti comments further on the expansion of the search area:  “The Persistence completed surveying the initial and extended grids.  Basically, this means that the sonar survey was completed.  Over 275 targets of interest were picked up and analyzed by the sonar interpreters.  Only 25% of the targets were investigated by the ROV.  At that point, we had run out of money and weather.  Louis Schaefer committed a very generous amount of money towards the survey and the rest of us absorbed what we could.  However, that was all based on the initial survey grid.  Once the grid tripled, obviously so did our committments.”

Kyle follows up a week later,  posting as oceanexplorer at BFN:  “…Many sonar targets were identified and explored with the first round of ROV dives between Dec 29th to about the 7th of January.  What has not been completed is the ROV dives on sonar targets found after about the 2nd week of January through the end of the sonar search…”



Jen - It has been my contention that the balance of those 65 ROV dives not done on the cage were performed on shipwrecks.

[Tamikosmom]

The implication of the following post submitted to Boycott Aruba is that Kyle Kingman was fabricating in his post to the SM site ... the post that implied that he discovered the trap on sonar on Christmas day.

 

Janet

++++++

BOYCOTT ARUBA--JUSTICE FOR NATALEE

December 18, 2007

Comments:

DEA can fire on ALE said...
ALE are tapping on the cellphone towers to listen on Persistence's wireless. They bugged the timeshare like Mos did without a court order. Periscopes are mounted on top of the high rises to watch the crew and operations. The Dutch spy satellite is tracking every inch of Persistence's movement. They are very unhappy about the clear sonar images. One image is of a drug submarine sunked by the coast guard. The other one image is the anchor and chain used to weight down a crab cage of a missing American's body. The crab cage is somewhere separated and sitting nearby. Persistence did not provide that image. It may be Natalee is inside the cage. This morning is super emotional and silent. John, Tim and Kyle are studying the closer snapshot of the crab cage. Something look like tennis shoes and a big knife inside. Some bones with some blue fabric around them. Most likely they belong to Natalee. The ALE are waiting for the warrant signed by judge Bob Witt to board Persistence and take over. However, the Persistence has the protection of the DEA helicopters. They can fire the hellfire missiles on the ALE boats. Aruba wants to make Persistence an international crisis to coverup it's cold case.

December 21, 2007 11:33:00 AM EST

http://arubanboycott.blogspot.com/2007/12/just-in-natalees-case-closed.html

Credit: Jen


oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #777 11/21/08 thru
« Reply #707 on: November 23, 2008, 03:31:18 PM »

I found the trap sonar target at 1:42 am on Christmas morning.  I was asked if I had any targets to investigate with the ROV on Dev 29th.  I did.  We then performed the 1st ROV dive and confirmed the sonar target was the trap.  This was the first ROV dive performed.  No other dives were performed prior to this.  I kept the sonar target list very confidential.  I didn't need people knowing about it and people on board knew well enough not even to ask.  When it was time to dive I have the target location. Until then, it was kept confidential.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4159.msg554268;topicseen#msg554268

 

[jen3560]

I heard back from the Aruban Boycott blog owner.
Any IP info she would have had - would have been via the visitor at the meter, not attached to the comments.

And as the meter moves forward (more visitors) the old info is cycled out.

So - no go on that/those commentors information.

[2NJSons_Mom]

The implication of the following post submitted to Boycott Aruba is that Kyle Kingman was fabricating in his post to the SM site ... the post that implied that he discovered the trap on sonar on Christmas day.

 

Janet

++++++

BOYCOTT ARUBA--JUSTICE FOR NATALEE

December 18, 2007

Comments:

DEA can fire on ALE said...
ALE are tapping on the cellphone towers to listen on Persistence's wireless. They bugged the timeshare like Mos did without a court order. Periscopes are mounted on top of the high rises to watch the crew and operations. The Dutch spy satellite is tracking every inch of Persistence's movement. They are very unhappy about the clear sonar images. One image is of a drug submarine sunked by the coast guard. The other one image is the anchor and chain used to weight down a crab cage of a missing American's body. The crab cage is somewhere separated and sitting nearby. Persistence did not provide that image. It may be Natalee is inside the cage. This morning is super emotional and silent. John, Tim and Kyle are studying the closer snapshot of the crab cage. Something look like tennis shoes and a big knife inside. Some bones with some blue fabric around them. Most likely they belong to Natalee. The ALE are waiting for the warrant signed by judge Bob Witt to board Persistence and take over. However, the Persistence has the protection of the DEA helicopters. They can fire the hellfire missiles on the ALE boats. Aruba wants to make Persistence an international crisis to coverup it's cold case.

December 21, 2007 11:33:00 AM EST

http://arubanboycott.blogspot.com/2007/12/just-in-natalees-case-closed.html

Credit: Jen


oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #777 11/21/08 thru
« Reply #707 on: November 23, 2008, 03:31:18 PM »

I found the trap sonar target at 1:42 am on Christmas morning.  I was asked if I had any targets to investigate with the ROV on Dev 29th.  I did.  We then performed the 1st ROV dive and confirmed the sonar target was the trap.  This was the first ROV dive performed.  No other dives were performed prior to this.  I kept the sonar target list very confidential.  I didn't need people knowing about it and people on board knew well enough not even to ask.  When it was time to dive I have the target location. Until then, it was kept confidential.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4159.msg554268;topicseen#msg554268

    My thoughts were going in this direction, Janet. 

[jen3560]

Lifesong - I agree with your thoughts on those remaining 65 ROV dives.

Janet - Yes, IF those comments are based in fact - it would appear that publicly, Kyle lied about the date that cage was found.

They started their initial sonar on the 20th.  They started their ROV dives on the 29th.  According to Kyle, anyway.

[Anna]

I have always believed Silvetti meant there were multiple dives made on THIS cage.  I know others have come away with a different interpretation, but those comments we just found further enforce (for me) that Persistence dove on that cage before Dec 29th......."several" times.


Special Notice:
By John Silvetti-

The original search area surveyed by the R/V Persistence was selected based on numerous pieces of information provided by Dave Holloway, Tim Miller, investigations, interrogations, depositions and other information from local authorities. After compiling and reviewing the information, the search area was selected by Louis Schaefer and John Silvetti. Upon completion of the sonar runs in this area, 65 ROV dives were performed by Offshore Innovative Solutions (OIS) on targets identified by sonar. Divers from the Aruban Police Diving Division and Underwater Expeditions made several dives and retrieved samples which were delivered for analysis. Several targets in this first survey grid yet remain to be investigated by ROV which will occur in approximately one week when ROV dive operations recommence.
 
snipped http://nholloway.blogspot.com/

------------

Which now brings me to a new question.

We know Tim Trahan was the diver for Underwater Expeditions, and that he dove on the trap on Dec 30th.  (More times?)

WHO was the diver (divers?) for Offshore Innovative Solutions (OIS) who made 65 dives on targets - and when were those dives made, and on WHAT targets?

Jen, Doesn't it say 65 ROV dives, not dives by human divers?  But I do agree that this sounds like far more than Kyle had stated.  And I would assume the ROV operator would be none other than Kyle himself.

   I'm confused.

[Tamikosmom]

Jen ... there is no way that the info in this post could have been known unless the trap was discovered by sonar PRIOR to Christmas day.

Does the new Dark Side have an explanation?  This explains why CAPS enter the scenario prior to Christmas Day.  The distraction had to be in the works ... the distraction that implied that Natalee Holloway was anywhere but in the ocean.

Everything is fitting into place.

Janet

[jen3560]

Jen ... there is no way that the info in this post could have been known unless the trap was discovered by sonar PRIOR to Christmas day.

Does the new Dark Side have an explanation?  This explains why CAPS enter the scenario prior to Christmas Day.  The distraction had to be in the works ... the distraction that implied that Natalee Holloway was anywhere but in the ocean.

Everything is fitting into place.
Janet

EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Tamikosmom]

The implication of the following post submitted to Boycott Aruba is that Kyle Kingman was fabricating in his post to the SM site ... the post that implied that he discovered the trap on sonar on Christmas day.

 

Janet

++++++

BOYCOTT ARUBA--JUSTICE FOR NATALEE

December 18, 2007

Comments:

DEA can fire on ALE said...
ALE are tapping on the cellphone towers to listen on Persistence's wireless. They bugged the timeshare like Mos did without a court order. Periscopes are mounted on top of the high rises to watch the crew and operations. The Dutch spy satellite is tracking every inch of Persistence's movement. They are very unhappy about the clear sonar images. One image is of a drug submarine sunked by the coast guard. The other one image is the anchor and chain used to weight down a crab cage of a missing American's body. The crab cage is somewhere separated and sitting nearby. Persistence did not provide that image. It may be Natalee is inside the cage. This morning is super emotional and silent. John, Tim and Kyle are studying the closer snapshot of the crab cage. Something look like tennis shoes and a big knife inside. Some bones with some blue fabric around them. Most likely they belong to Natalee. The ALE are waiting for the warrant signed by judge Bob Witt to board Persistence and take over. However, the Persistence has the protection of the DEA helicopters. They can fire the hellfire missiles on the ALE boats. Aruba wants to make Persistence an international crisis to coverup it's cold case.

December 21, 2007 11:33:00 AM EST

http://arubanboycott.blogspot.com/2007/12/just-in-natalees-case-closed.html

Credit: Jen


oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #777 11/21/08 thru
« Reply #707 on: November 23, 2008, 03:31:18 PM »

I found the trap sonar target at 1:42 am on Christmas morning.  I was asked if I had any targets to investigate with the ROV on Dev 29th.  I did.  We then performed the 1st ROV dive and confirmed the sonar target was the trap.  This was the first ROV dive performed.  No other dives were performed prior to this.  I kept the sonar target list very confidential.  I didn't need people knowing about it and people on board knew well enough not even to ask.  When it was time to dive I have the target location. Until then, it was kept confidential.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4159.msg554268;topicseen#msg554268

    My thoughts were going in this direction, Janet. 

Natalee Holloway deserved so much more from Americans ... from her own.  Natalee's parents deserved so much more.  Those who supported the Persistence endeavor prayerfully and monetarily deserved so much more.

John Silvetti, Tim Trahan and Kyle Kingman are the lowest of the low.

Janet