Natalee Case Discussion #815 4/8/09 - 4/16/09

[2NJSons_Mom]

2NJ-  comparing those two maps - it does appear that way, doesn't it?

Which would mean Persistence would have had to be on the South side of the island - opposite of where they were.

IMO, we need to find out for sure.........

They arrived from the south side to dock.  From there we only know what was written.  They were mapping for two whole months after the 1/7/08 sampling, and could have been anywhere in those waters.  In other words, if a pipeline is needed from Columbia to Aruba, it would have to run through the waters they said they were mapping.  imo

[hotping]

Go Ahead and Throw Me One I'll Catch it...a Kiss that Is...lol   
I'm glad that You got Your corroboration! 

[/quote] Got It! 

[hotping]

I do remember posts being made that the Persisitence searched around the whole island of Aruba.....I don't know where I read it but it was posted somewhere....I'm almost positive.....

[jen3560]

2NJ-  comparing those two maps - it does appear that way, doesn't it?

Which would mean Persistence would have had to be on the South side of the island - opposite of where they were.

IMO, we need to find out for sure.........

They arrived from the south side to dock.  From there we only know what was written.  They were mapping for two whole months after the 1/7/08 sampling, and could have been anywhere in those waters.  In other words, if a pipeline is needed from Columbia to Aruba, it would have to run through the waters they said they were mapping.  imo

Well here are the longitude and latitude for Palm Beach, Aruba

Palm Beach Aruba
12.5684986,-70.0403805


If someone can find a way to pull up coordinates for Cardon III that could tell us for sure.

I just can't seem to get anything other than a city smack in the middle of Venezuela when I try 

[jen3560]

I do remember posts being made that the Persisitence searched around the whole island of Aruba.....I don't know where I read it but it was posted somewhere....I'm almost positive.....

Mmmmm I don't remember that Hotping.  And I remember I think Janet specifically was interested in them looking off the East shore..........I believe?

I just don't think I remember reading that ever happened. 

[Artcolley]

At your service Artcolley  

Quote from: Artcolley on April 08, 2009, 04:08:17 PM
FWIW, I have NEVER read anywhere that Kermit said he/she was a Secret Service Agent. I have seen where OTHERS have wondered this, but NOWHERE have I seen Kermit state this.

I would LOVE to see where Kermit said this, so if anyone has a link to this, I'd appreciate it.

Kermit :
They have no link because I never, ever said that.
THEY said it. Then attacked/stalked me.


Odd isn't it that NOT ONE OF THEM questions the LIES they were told by capslockwizard
or johan555 and his Joran is in den dolder and hermit craps that don't exists!

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
And what is this Kermit ?:

Kermit said :  " I was downstairs  next to ANOTHER Secret Service Agent"

Thank you, Johann

But, where is the link?
And in what you posted, I do not see where Kermit states she is an agent of any sort.

Of course, I can see where some may assume that. But that is the problem, people run with what they think they know, which is usually nothing at all and then the rumours begin.

[Artcolley]

And, btw, can anyone tell me why they hate Kermit so much at the Darkside?  I just can't understand this raging hatred toward Kermit. It is bordering on the insane, imo.

[2NJSons_Mom]

I haven't located the posts Rob mentioned but found these, where the dates & comments are interesting.  In the second, it's eery that the boat they reportedly went to help was named Michelle...given the comments brought forward from Michelle's blog recently.     

Please accept this in the spirit in which it is written.  I understand all the long-term emotions and frustrations here.  Let's keep things in their proper perspective. The Island of Aruba is being branded by the actions of a few nasty individuals who are not Aruban. We all want the axe to fall, but we must want it to fall in the right place. 
Why call for hurting a people who by in large are very peaceful, kind, and loving?  Let's focus on the authorities making these poor decisions, not on the people who happen to be dwelling in their shadows. 
The Arubans desperately want justice and closure here.  So do we. 

PS:  There should be an interesting article in Diario today.  If someone could translate it and post it on the Ocean Search thread, I would appreciate it.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2453.msg318352#msg318352

This wasn't part of any conspiracy or diversion. The Michelle was in distress. They likely lost their mast in which case they would lose GPS positioning.  By the time they realised they were in trouble they got disoriented and didn't know where they were.  Those seas were very rough. The night can be extremely disorienting especially with clouds on the horizon, no power, and bouncing around inside of a derilict boat.  It's courtesy to respond to distress calls when you're in the vicinity. 
The Persistence is always in the vicinity where Natalee could be found.  This is why we're searching.  IMO The Aruban authorities have done nothing but help in anyway they can.
As for costing a nights work... the night was too rough to search and we would have turned towards the dock shortly anyhow.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2438.msg329949#msg329949

[jen3560]

Just because this is really bothering me.

May 12 2008 Kyle wrote:

He came to us during the search along with his brother who had a "vision" on where Natalee was disposed. The vision was cryptic and actually contained a latitude which from what he claimed could have been anywhere in the world. The brother thought they were coordinates, but it was just a latitude. Oddly, the latitude was within a half mile from where we found the trap

Comment from Michelle's blog:

latitude 12º 52’ N and longitude 70º 53’W said...

The Latitude of the quay in Oranjestad is 12º 31’ N and the longitude is 70º 02’W: The Latitude of the quay in Barcadera is 12º 29’ N and the longitude is 70º 00’W. Natalee's remains had been located at latitude 12º 52’ N and longitude 70º 53’W.

January 12, 2008 2:11:00 AM EST
http://arubanboycott.blogspot.com/2008/01/today-on-oprah-beth-and-matt-holloway.html

[jen3560]

And, btw, can anyone tell me why they hate Kermit so much at the Darkside?  I just can't understand this raging hatred toward Kermit. It is bordering on the insane, imo.

IMO - because Kerm shared Kyle's info here at SM.

It made an obvious falsehood of the pond witness - and many were married to that whole idea.

So since they couldn't attack the message (Kyle's) - they attacked the messenger (Kermit).

[hotping]

I do remember posts being made that the Persisitence searched around the whole island of Aruba.....I don't know where I read it but it was posted somewhere....I'm almost positive.....

Mmmmm I don't remember that Hotping.  And I remember I think Janet specifically was interested in them looking off the East shore..........I believe?

I just don't think I remember reading that ever happened. 

I'm searching and digging to see if I can find anything to backup My Memory....I could very well be wrong....It just seems I remember reading that They wound up searching aroung the whole island.....Does Anyone else remember this....help! 

[2NJSons_Mom]

I do remember posts being made that the Persisitence searched around the whole island of Aruba.....I don't know where I read it but it was posted somewhere....I'm almost positive.....

Mmmmm I don't remember that Hotping.  And I remember I think Janet specifically was interested in them looking off the East shore..........I believe?

I just don't think I remember reading that ever happened. 

Wasn't the Miohelle in distress off of Bonair or Curocao?  Wouldn't they be considered on the east shore area of Aruba? 

[jen3560]

I do remember posts being made that the Persisitence searched around the whole island of Aruba.....I don't know where I read it but it was posted somewhere....I'm almost positive.....

Mmmmm I don't remember that Hotping.  And I remember I think Janet specifically was interested in them looking off the East shore..........I believe?

I just don't think I remember reading that ever happened. 

Wasn't the Miohelle in distress off of Bonair or Curocao?  Wouldn't they be considered on the eash shore area of Aruba? 

I'm wanting to say it was Curacao.......and yes - they are to the East of Aruba.

[2NJSons_Mom]

I do remember posts being made that the Persisitence searched around the whole island of Aruba.....I don't know where I read it but it was posted somewhere....I'm almost positive.....

Mmmmm I don't remember that Hotping.  And I remember I think Janet specifically was interested in them looking off the East shore..........I believe?

I just don't think I remember reading that ever happened. 

Wasn't the Miohelle in distress off of Bonair or Curacao?  Wouldn't they be considered on the east shore area of Aruba? 

I'm wanting to say it was Curacao.......and yes - they are to the East of Aruba.

Kyle did say they were in the area. 

[jen3560]

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2453.msg318352#msg318352

This wasn't part of any conspiracy or diversion. The Michelle was in distress. They likely lost their mast in which case they would lose GPS positioning.  By the time they realised they were in trouble they got disoriented and didn't know where they were.  Those seas were very rough. The night can be extremely disorienting especially with clouds on the horizon, no power, and bouncing around inside of a derilict boat.  It's courtesy to respond to distress calls when you're in the vicinity. 
The Persistence is always in the vicinity where Natalee could be found.  This is why we're searching.  IMO The Aruban authorities have done nothing but help in anyway they can.
As for costing a nights work... the night was too rough to search and we would have turned towards the dock shortly anyhow.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2438.msg329949#msg329949

2100 hrs - A call comes on the radio from the Aruban Port Authority requesting the Persistence assist a vessel in distress. A sailboat named Michelle with 6 reported on board is adrift. In such strong winds and high seas it's possible the sailboat could have broken its mast. All we know is that they need immediate help. The search team picks up the sonar and immediately heads in the reported direction of the distressed vessel. For miles we scan the dark horizon as Curacao, Aruba, and the Persistence carefully monitor the radio. Finally, we receive a position and plot a bearing and range -4.5 miles, heading 210 degrees. After a while, the Aruban port authority once again raises the Persistence on the radio, only this time with a very different position. It seems not only is the Michelle adrift, she is very lost. I can only imagine what kind of hell the people on board are going through. Powerless, drifting, scared, alone, and at the mercy of perilous seas the Michelle hopes and waits for rescue somewhere offshore Curacao.

[2NJSons_Mom]

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2453.msg318352#msg318352

This wasn't part of any conspiracy or diversion. The Michelle was in distress. They likely lost their mast in which case they would lose GPS positioning.  By the time they realised they were in trouble they got disoriented and didn't know where they were.  Those seas were very rough. The night can be extremely disorienting especially with clouds on the horizon, no power, and bouncing around inside of a derilict boat.  It's courtesy to respond to distress calls when you're in the vicinity. 
The Persistence is always in the vicinity where Natalee could be found.  This is why we're searching.  IMO The Aruban authorities have done nothing but help in anyway they can.
As for costing a nights work... the night was too rough to search and we would have turned towards the dock shortly anyhow.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2438.msg329949#msg329949

2100 hrs - A call comes on the radio from the Aruban Port Authority requesting the Persistence assist a vessel in distress. A sailboat named Michelle with 6 reported on board is adrift. In such strong winds and high seas it's possible the sailboat could have broken its mast. All we know is that they need immediate help. The search team picks up the sonar and immediately heads in the reported direction of the distressed vessel. For miles we scan the dark horizon as Curacao, Aruba, and the Persistence carefully monitor the radio. Finally, we receive a position and plot a bearing and range -4.5 miles, heading 210 degrees. After a while, the Aruban port authority once again raises the Persistence on the radio, only this time with a very different position. It seems not only is the Michelle adrift, she is very lost. I can only imagine what kind of hell the people on board are going through. Powerless, drifting, scared, alone, and at the mercy of perilous seas the Michelle hopes and waits for rescue somewhere offshore Curacao.

  

[Artcolley]

And, btw, can anyone tell me why they hate Kermit so much at the Darkside?  I just can't understand this raging hatred toward Kermit. It is bordering on the insane, imo.

IMO - because Kerm shared Kyle's info here at SM.

It made an obvious falsehood of the pond witness - and many were married to that whole idea.

So since they couldn't attack the message (Kyle's) - they attacked the messenger (Kermit).

Thank you, Jen.
 So, it is insane then. Cripes.

[jen3560]

And, btw, can anyone tell me why they hate Kermit so much at the Darkside?  I just can't understand this raging hatred toward Kermit. It is bordering on the insane, imo.

IMO - because Kerm shared Kyle's info here at SM.

It made an obvious falsehood of the pond witness - and many were married to that whole idea.

So since they couldn't attack the message (Kyle's) - they attacked the messenger (Kermit).

Thank you, Jen.
 So, it is insane then. Cripes.

YW Art!

Yep - insane best describes it.

[2NJSons_Mom]

Just because this is really bothering me.

May 12 2008 Kyle wrote:

He came to us during the search along with his brother who had a "vision" on where Natalee was disposed. The vision was cryptic and actually contained a latitude which from what he claimed could have been anywhere in the world. The brother thought they were coordinates, but it was just a latitude. Oddly, the latitude was within a half mile from where we found the trap

Comment from Michelle's blog:

latitude 12º 52’ N and longitude 70º 53’W said...

The Latitude of the quay in Oranjestad is 12º 31’ N and the longitude is 70º 02’W: The Latitude of the quay in Barcadera is 12º 29’ N and the longitude is 70º 00’W. Natalee's remains had been located at latitude 12º 52’ N and longitude 70º 53’W.

January 12, 2008 2:11:00 AM EST
http://arubanboycott.blogspot.com/2008/01/today-on-oprah-beth-and-matt-holloway.html

My google map skills are not the greatest, but I just made an attempt to locate the bolded latitude and longitude, and found it was way out, just above the gulf of venezuela & that inlet that is to the left of the gas blocks & leads to Lake Maracaibo to the south.  Perhaps someone with better map skills & computer can confirm whether my finding was accurate. 

[hotping]

Interesting front page post from 12/27/08


Persistence Continues Search for Natalee Holloway in Aruba Waters
 
The Persistence continues is job in searching for Natalee Holloway off the coast of Aruba. The deep sea search continues and is full steam ahead. They pursue the mission at hand, but recently took time to give us a brief update as to how the effort were going, News Audio Update from the Aruban Natalee Holloway Deep Sea Search.

Good luck to all aboard the RV Persistence …

The Persistance searching the seabed for the remains of Natalee Holloway.



ORANJESTAD – The decision of the Public Prosecutor to dismiss the Holloway-case has no effect on the investigation of the special ship Persistance, emphasized the crew that started to scan the seabed around Aruba on Tuesday.  With the best equipment in the world, they are trying to find Holloway.  Dave Holloway, Natalee’s father announced the arrival of the ship one month ago.  However, the ship’s arrival was delayed by the tropical storm Olga.

The ship has modern sonological-equipment that can scan up to 4000 meters deep.


The ship can scan very deep seabeds.  The ship will first determine the topographical situation of the sea around Aruba till the sea border with Venezuela.    The speed of the sound under water is measured with a sound velocity profile (SVP).  This is needed for the calculation of data during the scan.  Strange abnormal forms on the seabed can be captured with that. 

Maritime geologist Kyle Kingman, who maintains a blog about the expedition compares the seabed with an ‘old living creature from the end of the cretaceous period, full of stories’.  “We know that this creature is making sure that he does not abandon his secrets”, writes Kingman.  He expects though that when the side scan sonar is activated, the contents of each split is going to be revealed and can be seen on a monitor in the computer room.  He says though that it remains difficult, like a shopping cart in an area as big as Manhattan. 

The search is of course going to cost a lot.  There are 18 people working with the most modern and expensive instruments on board of the ship.  Project manager Tim Miller doesn’t want to confirm that millions of dollars in donations are paying for this search.  “We don’t want media-attention; we only want to do our job.”  He only wanted to talk to Diario.  Also the office of the organization Texas Equusearch (TES), of which Miller is the founder, doesn’t want to say anything.  This abundantly sponsored American organization is specialized in search actions for mainly missing fellow country persons.  TES has already searched for Natalee two years ago, but only to a depth of 100 meters at that time. 

The organization receives a lot of monetary- as well as emotional support on the weblog.  This support is mainly from people that give the Lord’s blessing and that ask everybody to pray for the crew on the ship and the Holloway family.  Criticism is not really tolerated on the website.  These are not even added to the log.  An anonymous informant is wondering whether the authorities are on board of the ship for if they find evidence.  The lawyers of the former suspects are afraid that evidence can be planted by the crew.  “They may just drop or add a purse for example.”

The OM does not cooperate with the search action, but wants to be kept informed of whatever is discovered that can be of interest.  It is not known whether the crew has applied for a work permit for the search with the government. (Amigoe: 12/27/2007)

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2007/12/27/persistence-continues-search-for-natalee-holloway-in-aruba-waters/