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Natalee Case Discussion #815 4/8/09 - 4/16/09
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Topic: Natalee Case Discussion #815 4/8/09 - 4/16/09 (Read 180679 times)
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Magnolia
Monkey All Star Jr.
Offline
Posts: 6714
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #815 4/8/09 -
«
Reply #60 on:
April 09, 2009, 01:08:10 AM »
Quote from: wreck on April 09, 2009, 12:31:34 AM
For the last 3 years, I have ALWAYS believed that our FBI and State Department were MUCH more involved than what we have seen on the surface
. (Robots and I were always on the same page there). Now, I am just puzzled.
It would be nice to be able to believe that and I am so hopeful that is the case.
I have heard Dave speak several times of being contacted by the FBI.
Logged
The will of heaven be done in this and all things.
billb's daughter
Monkey Junky
Offline
Posts: 1956
No Body...No Tourism aruba! Bring Natalee Home!
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #815 4/8/09 -
«
Reply #61 on:
April 09, 2009, 01:13:19 AM »
I remember a lively debate back in Jan 08 about the Aruban Coast Guard Panther over the site of the cage for 2 days while kyle was watching from shore....
Anyway, I thought it was Dutch maybe using suction system to sample all around the cage....others thought it was arubans finishing up the last of the cover up.
I don't know either way, but after reading some of the latest brought back from Michelle's site.....
It makes me go hmmmm....
Logged
wreck
Monkey All Star Jr.
Offline
Posts: 7781
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #815 4/8/09 -
«
Reply #62 on:
April 09, 2009, 01:14:16 AM »
Quote from: Magnolia on April 09, 2009, 01:08:10 AM
Quote from: wreck on April 09, 2009, 12:31:34 AM
For the last 3 years, I have ALWAYS believed that our FBI and State Department were MUCH more involved than what we have seen on the surface
. (Robots and I were always on the same page there). Now, I am just puzzled.
It would be nice to be able to believe that and I am so hopeful that is the case.
I have heard Dave speak several times of being contacted by the FBI.
Well, I seriously don't know -- but I have also always stated that IF we have been mislead by the family for the past year ........... I completely understand their motives and would understand completely. The bigger picture is for Natalee.
Logged
hotping
Monkey Junky
Offline
Posts: 3747
All Prayers Will Be Answered in Time!
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #815 4/8/09 -
«
Reply #63 on:
April 09, 2009, 01:30:53 AM »
I just got caught up reading this thread and I have to say I'm totally blown away by the posts from Michelle's blog....WTH is true and what is not seems to be the big question.....Surely all of that could not have been going on while Persistence was there and no one leaked to the press.....just doesn't seem possible to Me....But Stranger things have happened....
Thanks Lifesong for posting Them!
Logged
In God We Trust!
Prayers Will Bring Natalee Home!
May 2010 Bring Natalee Home to Rest In Peace!
billb's daughter
Monkey Junky
Offline
Posts: 1956
No Body...No Tourism aruba! Bring Natalee Home!
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #815 4/8/09 -
«
Reply #64 on:
April 09, 2009, 01:44:45 AM »
Quote from: billb on April 09, 2009, 01:13:19 AM
I remember a lively debate back in Jan 08 about the Aruban Coast Guard Panther over the site of the cage for 2 days while kyle was watching from shore....
Anyway, I thought it was Dutch maybe using suction system to sample all around the cage....others thought it was arubans finishing up the last of the cover up.
I don't know either way, but after reading some of the latest brought back from Michelle's site.....
It makes me go hmmmm....
I meant Jan
09
in post above....
Here is one of the post I was thinking of:
Natalee Holloway / LCD Archive / Re: Natalee Case Discussion #790 1/3/09 - on: January 04, 2009, 01:59:00 AM
Quote from: billb on January 04, 2009, 12:54:16 AM
Quote from: Kermit on January 03, 2009, 07:46:30 PM
billb asked:
en...Kermit...Has anything been determined on what the Dutch/Aruban coast guard was doing at the cage site? (I think I remember that they were there at the cage on Jan 10, 11?). If so, that was well after the supposedly collection of the contents by the Aruban divers on Jan 7.
Just thinking out loud here, but so much focus has been on the 7th being the day the contents were taken..could that be to distract from what the Dutch/Aruban coast guard were doing on the 10th, 11th? I guess I'm stuck on trying to figure out what the coast guard was doing if the contents were already removed on the 7th
Kyle stated: Jan 12-13 I saw the Dutch Coast Guard on site for 45 minutes on both days.
I told John about the Coast Guard on site and he didn't want to hear it. However, he must have thought about it and after chewing on it agreed because he spoke to Mos and Richardson about it later. I believe it was Richardson came back to him and said nothing other than they don't have dive capabilities. HAHA..
Kyle stated: I know Tim believed me and was convinced 100% which is why he went and told Dave that we found Natalee on Dec 29th. John stood back and waited and worked with the Aruban Polis to arrange the next dive -Dec 30th's which was the visual-only dive.
John told me then he didn't want to hear me ever mention the trap again.[/b] Of course this didn't set well with me. After the Jan 7th Dive I got off the boat for R&R from the 9th-14th at the Holiday Inn. Remember after the Jan-7th dive which sampled the trap Richardson told John emphatically to "keep searching she's still out there in the deep ocean". Meanwhile I'm standing on the beach watching the Dutch Coast Guard at the trap site for 42 and 45 minutes respectively over two days (11-12th). When I got back to the Hotel on the 11th and 12th after seeing the coasties out there I told John. He didn't want to hear it and didn't believe it. However, a couple weeks later he told me he looked into it by talking to Richardson who said "...not to worry, the Coast Guard doesn't have dive capabilities".
Panther is the one John mentioned to CAPS
Kermit...thanks for the reply...(ok..it wasn't a direct reply to my post...only a reference..
I'm inclined to think there is more to the events surrounding the coast guard ship being over the cage on Jan 11-12, or 12-13 (two different dates by kyle's posts) than what we have been lead to believe happened on 7 Jan..if all cage evidence was swooped up by aruba divers on the 7th.....what's the point of the two day visit by the coast guard?
Who/when did the zip lock bagging happen? The Jan 7th ROV video implies it happened that day or before, and the posts seem to imply aruba divers collected the contents of the cage on Jan 7th.
But maybe the bagging happened in time for the ROV video on the 7th...and the actual collection/recovery of the cage evidence was later when the coast guard was over the site....
Point being...the aruba divers/ale didn't collect the contents of the cage....did the coast guard, with a royal Netherlands navy chain of command, collect the contents of the cage?.......
question then..does that bode well in an international court providing Justice for Natalee? If so, is the outcome out of the hands of the pos aruban authorities, and can we expect Justice for Natalee from an international court?
Logged
billb's daughter
Monkey Junky
Offline
Posts: 1956
No Body...No Tourism aruba! Bring Natalee Home!
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #815 4/8/09 -
«
Reply #65 on:
April 09, 2009, 01:47:57 AM »
Quote from: billb on April 09, 2009, 01:44:45 AM
Quote from: billb on April 09, 2009, 01:13:19 AM
I remember a lively debate back in Jan 08 about the Aruban Coast Guard Panther over the site of the cage for 2 days while kyle was watching from shore....
Anyway, I thought it was Dutch maybe using suction system to sample all around the cage....others thought it was arubans finishing up the last of the cover up.
I don't know either way, but after reading some of the latest brought back from Michelle's site.....
It makes me go hmmmm....
I meant Jan
09
in post above....
Here is one of the post I was thinking of:
Natalee Holloway / LCD Archive / Re: Natalee Case Discussion #790 1/3/09 - on: January 04, 2009, 01:59:00 AM
Quote from: billb on January 04, 2009, 12:54:16 AM
Quote from: Kermit on January 03, 2009, 07:46:30 PM
billb asked:
en...Kermit...Has anything been determined on what the Dutch/Aruban coast guard was doing at the cage site? (I think I remember that they were there at the cage on Jan 10, 11?). If so, that was well after the supposedly collection of the contents by the Aruban divers on Jan 7.
Just thinking out loud here, but so much focus has been on the 7th being the day the contents were taken..could that be to distract from what the Dutch/Aruban coast guard were doing on the 10th, 11th? I guess I'm stuck on trying to figure out what the coast guard was doing if the contents were already removed on the 7th
Kyle stated: Jan 12-13 I saw the Dutch Coast Guard on site for 45 minutes on both days.
I told John about the Coast Guard on site and he didn't want to hear it. However, he must have thought about it and after chewing on it agreed because he spoke to Mos and Richardson about it later. I believe it was Richardson came back to him and said nothing other than they don't have dive capabilities. HAHA..
Kyle stated: I know Tim believed me and was convinced 100% which is why he went and told Dave that we found Natalee on Dec 29th. John stood back and waited and worked with the Aruban Polis to arrange the next dive -Dec 30th's which was the visual-only dive.
John told me then he didn't want to hear me ever mention the trap again.[/b] Of course this didn't set well with me. After the Jan 7th Dive I got off the boat for R&R from the 9th-14th at the Holiday Inn. Remember after the Jan-7th dive which sampled the trap Richardson told John emphatically to "keep searching she's still out there in the deep ocean". Meanwhile I'm standing on the beach watching the Dutch Coast Guard at the trap site for 42 and 45 minutes respectively over two days (11-12th). When I got back to the Hotel on the 11th and 12th after seeing the coasties out there I told John. He didn't want to hear it and didn't believe it. However, a couple weeks later he told me he looked into it by talking to Richardson who said "...not to worry, the Coast Guard doesn't have dive capabilities".
Panther is the one John mentioned to CAPS
Quote from: billb on April 09, 2009, 01:13:19 AM
[/b]
Kermit...thanks for the reply...(ok..it wasn't a direct reply to my post...only a reference..
I'm inclined to think there is more to the events surrounding the coast guard ship being over the cage on Jan 11-12, or 12-13 (two different dates by kyle's posts) than what we have been lead to believe happened on 7 Jan..if all cage evidence was swooped up by aruba divers on the 7th.....what's the point of the two day visit by the coast guard?
Who/when did the zip lock bagging happen? The Jan 7th ROV video implies it happened that day or before, and the posts seem to imply aruba divers collected the contents of the cage on Jan 7th.
But maybe the bagging happened in time for the ROV video on the 7th...and the actual collection/recovery of the cage evidence was later when the coast guard was over the site....
Point being...the aruba divers/ale didn't collect the contents of the cage....did the coast guard, with a royal Netherlands navy chain of command, collect the contents of the cage?.......
question then..does that bode well in an international court providing Justice for Natalee? If so, is the outcome out of the hands of the pos aruban authorities, and can we expect Justice for Natalee from an international court?
Logged
hotping
Monkey Junky
Offline
Posts: 3747
All Prayers Will Be Answered in Time!
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #815 4/8/09 -
«
Reply #66 on:
April 09, 2009, 01:57:07 AM »
Quote from: billb on April 09, 2009, 01:47:57 AM
Quote from: billb on April 09, 2009, 01:44:45 AM
Quote from: billb on April 09, 2009, 01:13:19 AM
I remember a lively debate back in Jan 08 about the Aruban Coast Guard Panther over the site of the cage for 2 days while kyle was watching from shore....
Anyway, I thought it was Dutch maybe using suction system to sample all around the cage....others thought it was arubans finishing up the last of the cover up.
I don't know either way, but after reading some of the latest brought back from Michelle's site.....
It makes me go hmmmm....
I meant Jan
09
in post above....
Here is one of the post I was thinking of:
Natalee Holloway / LCD Archive / Re: Natalee Case Discussion #790 1/3/09 - on: January 04, 2009, 01:59:00 AM
Quote from: billb on January 04, 2009, 12:54:16 AM
Quote from: Kermit on January 03, 2009, 07:46:30 PM
billb asked:
en...Kermit...Has anything been determined on what the Dutch/Aruban coast guard was doing at the cage site? (I think I remember that they were there at the cage on Jan 10, 11?). If so, that was well after the supposedly collection of the contents by the Aruban divers on Jan 7.
Just thinking out loud here, but so much focus has been on the 7th being the day the contents were taken..could that be to distract from what the Dutch/Aruban coast guard were doing on the 10th, 11th? I guess I'm stuck on trying to figure out what the coast guard was doing if the contents were already removed on the 7th
Kyle stated: Jan 12-13 I saw the Dutch Coast Guard on site for 45 minutes on both days.
I told John about the Coast Guard on site and he didn't want to hear it. However, he must have thought about it and after chewing on it agreed because he spoke to Mos and Richardson about it later. I believe it was Richardson came back to him and said nothing other than they don't have dive capabilities. HAHA..
Kyle stated: I know Tim believed me and was convinced 100% which is why he went and told Dave that we found Natalee on Dec 29th. John stood back and waited and worked with the Aruban Polis to arrange the next dive -Dec 30th's which was the visual-only dive.
John told me then he didn't want to hear me ever mention the trap again.[/b] Of course this didn't set well with me. After the Jan 7th Dive I got off the boat for R&R from the 9th-14th at the Holiday Inn. Remember after the Jan-7th dive which sampled the trap Richardson told John emphatically to "keep searching she's still out there in the deep ocean". Meanwhile I'm standing on the beach watching the Dutch Coast Guard at the trap site for 42 and 45 minutes respectively over two days (11-12th). When I got back to the Hotel on the 11th and 12th after seeing the coasties out there I told John. He didn't want to hear it and didn't believe it. However, a couple weeks later he told me he looked into it by talking to Richardson who said "...not to worry, the Coast Guard doesn't have dive capabilities".
Panther is the one John mentioned to CAPS
Quote from: billb on April 09, 2009, 01:13:19 AM
[/b]
Kermit...thanks for the reply...(ok..it wasn't a direct reply to my post...only a reference..
I'm inclined to think there is more to the events surrounding the coast guard ship being over the cage on Jan 11-12, or 12-13 (two different dates by kyle's posts) than what we have been lead to believe happened on 7 Jan..if all cage evidence was swooped up by aruba divers on the 7th.....what's the point of the two day visit by the coast guard?
Who/when did the zip lock bagging happen? The Jan 7th ROV video implies it happened that day or before, and the posts seem to imply aruba divers collected the contents of the cage on Jan 7th.
But maybe the bagging happened in time for the ROV video on the 7th...and the actual collection/recovery of the cage evidence was later when the coast guard was over the site....
Point being...the aruba divers/ale didn't collect the contents of the cage....did the coast guard, with a royal Netherlands navy chain of command, collect the contents of the cage?.......
question then..does that bode well in an international court providing Justice for Natalee? If so, is the outcome out of the hands of the pos aruban authorities, and can we expect Justice for Natalee from an international court?
Good Questions billb...I wish I knew the answers....
Logged
In God We Trust!
Prayers Will Bring Natalee Home!
May 2010 Bring Natalee Home to Rest In Peace!
hotping
Monkey Junky
Offline
Posts: 3747
All Prayers Will Be Answered in Time!
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #815 4/8/09 -
«
Reply #67 on:
April 09, 2009, 02:03:26 AM »
Good Night All!
May God Bless Us with the Answers to All of Our Questions in this Case!
God Bless Natalee and Her Family!
Logged
In God We Trust!
Prayers Will Bring Natalee Home!
May 2010 Bring Natalee Home to Rest In Peace!
texasmom
Monkey Mega Star
Offline
Posts: 32407
ARUBA: It's all about Natalee...we won't give up!
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #815 4/8/09 -
«
Reply #68 on:
April 09, 2009, 02:09:06 AM »
Quote from: wreck on April 09, 2009, 01:14:16 AM
Quote from: Magnolia on April 09, 2009, 01:08:10 AM
Quote from: wreck on April 09, 2009, 12:31:34 AM
For the last 3 years, I have ALWAYS believed that our FBI and State Department were MUCH more involved than what we have seen on the surface
. (Robots and I were always on the same page there). Now, I am just puzzled.
It would be nice to be able to believe that and I am so hopeful that is the case.
I have heard Dave speak several times of being contacted by the FBI.
Well, I seriously don't know -- but I have also always stated that IF we have been mislead by the family for the past year ........... I completely understand their motives and would understand completely. The bigger picture is for Natalee.
I don't know what to think either....it's mind boggling.
I agree with wreck, after all...it's all about Natalee!
I just hope and pray that the answers, and justice will come.
Logged
I stand with the girl, Natalee Holloway.
"I can look back over the past 10 years and there were no steps wasted, and there are no regrets,'' she said. "I did all I knew to do and I think that gives me greater peace now." "I've lived every parent's worst nightmare and I'm the parent that nobody wants to be," she said.
Beth Holloway, 2015 interview with Greta van Susteren
texasmom
Monkey Mega Star
Offline
Posts: 32407
ARUBA: It's all about Natalee...we won't give up!
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #815 4/8/09 -
«
Reply #69 on:
April 09, 2009, 02:10:28 AM »
Quote from: hotping on April 09, 2009, 02:03:26 AM
Good Night All!
May God Bless Us with the Answers to All of Our Questions in this Case!
God Bless Natalee and Her Family!
Good Night Hotping!
Logged
I stand with the girl, Natalee Holloway.
"I can look back over the past 10 years and there were no steps wasted, and there are no regrets,'' she said. "I did all I knew to do and I think that gives me greater peace now." "I've lived every parent's worst nightmare and I'm the parent that nobody wants to be," she said.
Beth Holloway, 2015 interview with Greta van Susteren
texasmom
Monkey Mega Star
Offline
Posts: 32407
ARUBA: It's all about Natalee...we won't give up!
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #815 4/8/09 -
«
Reply #70 on:
April 09, 2009, 02:12:50 AM »
Truth & Justice for Natalee!
Logged
I stand with the girl, Natalee Holloway.
"I can look back over the past 10 years and there were no steps wasted, and there are no regrets,'' she said. "I did all I knew to do and I think that gives me greater peace now." "I've lived every parent's worst nightmare and I'm the parent that nobody wants to be," she said.
Beth Holloway, 2015 interview with Greta van Susteren
iris44
Scared Monkey
Offline
Posts: 201
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #815 4/8/09 -
«
Reply #71 on:
April 09, 2009, 03:50:09 AM »
Quote from: Anna on April 08, 2009, 10:28:24 PM
Quote from: hotping on April 08, 2009, 10:14:16 PM
O/T Anna.....I saw the picture of the Colt on the last thread....Yes He is a Beauty....Appears to Me to be Quarter Horse.....Thank You for posting it....I never doubted for a minute that You had a horse or that You Have raised horses before....He appears to be sorrel in the pictue and He looks like He will grow to be pretty big....Again Thank You for posting the pic...I love horses and maybe one of these days soon We will have more....When My Papa got sick back in 2005 we sold all of Ours to move and take care of Him...We were Very picky on who We sold Them to and have become friends with all of their current owners so that We can stay in touch..... Thanks Again
Hotping, yes that is what he is and additional photos in musings.
He is much better today, too.
He is a cutie. I posted OT to you in Musings, Anna.
Logged
johan555
Monkey Junky
Offline
Posts: 2943
hay welkom here !!!
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #815 4/8/09 -
«
Reply #72 on:
April 09, 2009, 04:47:27 AM »
At your service
A
rtcolley
Quote from: Artcolley on April 08, 2009, 04:08:17 PM
FWIW,
I have NEVER read anywhere that Kermit said he/she was a Secret Service Agent.
I have seen where OTHERS have wondered this, but NOWHERE have I seen Kermit state this.
I would LOVE to see
where
Kermit said this
, so if anyone has a link to this, I'd appreciate it.
Kermit :
They have no link because
I never, ever said that.
THEY said it. Then attacked/stalked me.
Odd isn't it that NOT ONE OF THEM questions the LIES they were told by capslockwizard
or johan555 and his Joran is in den dolder and hermit craps that don't exists!
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
And what is this Kermit ?:
Kermit said : " I was downstairs next to
ANOTHER
Secret Service Agent"
Logged
Wanneer domme mensen domme dingen beweren, dan moet je ze niet corrigeren, maar glimlachend gelijk geven.
http://www.nataleeholloway.smfnew.com/index.php
Magnolia
Monkey All Star Jr.
Offline
Posts: 6714
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #815 4/8/09 -
«
Reply #73 on:
April 09, 2009, 07:02:01 AM »
Quote from: johan555 on April 09, 2009, 04:47:27 AM
At your service
A
rtcolley
Quote from: Artcolley on April 08, 2009, 04:08:17 PM
FWIW,
I have NEVER read anywhere that Kermit said he/she was a Secret Service Agent.
I have seen where OTHERS have wondered this, but NOWHERE have I seen Kermit state this.
I would LOVE to see
where
Kermit said this
, so if anyone has a link to this, I'd appreciate it.
Kermit :
They have no link because
I never, ever said that.
THEY said it. Then attacked/stalked me.
Odd isn't it that NOT ONE OF THEM questions the LIES they were told by capslockwizard
or johan555 and his Joran is in den dolder and hermit craps that don't exists!
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
And what is this Kermit ?:
Kermit said : " I was downstairs next to
ANOTHER
Secret Service Agent"
Johan, you are being ridiculous.
One Secret Service Agent upstairs and
ANOTHER
Secret Service Agent downstairs. DUH!
You will have to look some more.
Logged
The will of heaven be done in this and all things.
Frijole
Monkey Junky
Offline
Posts: 4263
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #815 4/8/09 -
«
Reply #74 on:
April 09, 2009, 08:29:30 AM »
Quote from: wreck on April 09, 2009, 01:14:16 AM
Quote from: Magnolia on April 09, 2009, 01:08:10 AM
Quote from: wreck on April 09, 2009, 12:31:34 AM
For the last 3 years, I have ALWAYS believed that our FBI and State Department were MUCH more involved than what we have seen on the surface
. (Robots and I were always on the same page there). Now, I am just puzzled.
It would be nice to be able to believe that and I am so hopeful that is the case.
I have heard Dave speak several times of being contacted by the FBI.
Well, I seriously don't know -- but I have also always stated that IF we have been mislead by the family for the past year ........... I completely understand their motives and would understand completely. The bigger picture is for Natalee.
Interesting thoughts Wreck. I'd be understanding of those motives also. Would love to think this was happening. Question is... if this were true, why the recent pond search? To catch them planting evidence? Hmm.. off to work. Will catch up at lunch. Good day all.
Logged
jen3560
Monkey Junky
Offline
Posts: 3338
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #815 4/8/09 -
«
Reply #75 on:
April 09, 2009, 09:29:44 AM »
Quote from: Lifesong on April 09, 2009, 12:21:22 AM
Quote from: wreck on April 09, 2009, 12:15:23 AM
My thoughts exactly, Wreck!
I don't know what to think either.
I'm wondering if maybe this is where Caps got some of his "dismembered" stuff though.
I'm also trying to remember who it was that posted here about the secret take-down of Aruban officials being prepared behind the scenes
....anyone else remember that stuff?
Goodnight, Mere!
That's what Kyle inferred to us that the 40 (or 52) "CSI's from Holland" were doing on Aruba.
An investigation into the investigation.
Logged
jen3560
Monkey Junky
Offline
Posts: 3338
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #815 4/8/09 -
«
Reply #76 on:
April 09, 2009, 09:37:35 AM »
Thank you Klaas and Lifesong for bringing those posts here!
I'm getting more and more convinced with the more I read, that those can't possibly be just random thoughts pulled out of thin air - not with some of the factual info they contain here and there.
billb- I'm on the same page you are regarding the Panter.
When I first read that comment from Michelle's site about Dutch protection for the Persistence, that is the first thing that came to mind!
But - Kyle did tell us that Aruban divers took the evidence in the baggies topside with them on Jan 7th. They weren't left there for someone else to take at a later date.
Logged
Lifesong
Monkey Junky
Offline
Posts: 2223
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #815 4/8/09 -
«
Reply #77 on:
April 09, 2009, 10:16:24 AM »
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #787 12/24/08 - on: December 30, 2008, 08:21:35 PM
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4269.msg604204#msg604204
Quote
Quote from:
ldstlou
on December 30, 2008, 08:21:35 PM
Quote
Quote from: Keepthefaith on December 30, 2008, 08:15:20 PM
When was the last time Kyle was on the Freebird's site??Wingnut?If you can answer..I don't think he's typing anything anymore for a good reason!
He is still typing.
he adressed jen's letter line by line and e-mailed it to both Jug and I
tonight. I am satisfied with his answers.
Did "the leak" ever share Kyle's point by point response with you guys, Jen?
Btw, I'm still looking for the posts I was referring to earlier. I remember the one from Kyle, but there's at least one other I'm thinking of, if not more, claiming that if Kermit started revealing the information it would mess up the investigation blah blah blah. I'll find it...not that it's true, mind you, but it
may
lead to finding a link to some of these comments.
Logged
"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use." - Galileo
jen3560
Monkey Junky
Offline
Posts: 3338
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #815 4/8/09 -
«
Reply #78 on:
April 09, 2009, 10:46:02 AM »
OK bear with me guys - this may get a bit convoluted.
Was the reason for the Persistence being in Aruba already fulfilled?
In 1978 the Netherlands signed an Treaty with Venezuela, giving it the rights to the Exclusive Econimic Zone (EEZ) for the continental shelf it sits on.
EEZ:
Under the United Nations Convention on Law of the Sea (UNCLOS), the exclusive economic zone or EEZ is covered by Articles 56, 58 and 59.
The EEZ is defined as that portion of the seas and oceans extending up to 200 nautical miles in which coastal States have the right to explore and exploit natural resources as well as to exercise jurisdiction over marine science research and environmental protection.
http://www.eoearth.org/article/Exclusive_economic_zone_(EEZ
)
The Treaty for Maritime Jurisdiction to Venezuela:
December 1978 Maritime Boundaries: Aruba, Curacao, Bonaire, Saba/Aves Island: Maritime boundaries agreement with Venezuela EIF
Article 1
1. The maritime delimitations lines set out in this Treaty constitute the boundaries between the Contracting Parties
in respect to their territorial waters, continental shelves, exclusive economic zones
and all other maritime or submarine areas that have been or may be established by the Parties in accordance with international law.
The maritime boundary lines between Venezuela and the Netherlands Antilles are as follows:
1. SECTOR A. Between the west of Aruba and Venezuelan territory
1.1. From point No. 3, latitude 12° 21' 00" N and longitude 70° 25' 00" W, the meridian 70° 25' 00" W to point No.2, latitude 12° 49' 00" N and longitude 70° 25' 00" W.
1.2. From said point No. 2, an arc of maximum circumference to point No. 1, latitude 15° 24' 48" N and longitude 69° 34' 38" W, or that point on said maximum circumference that represents the boundary with third nations.
2. SECTOR B. Between the Leeward Islands of the Netherlands Antilles (Aruba, Bonaire, Curacao) and the north coast of Venezuela.
2.1. From Point No.3, latitude 12° 21' 00" N and longitude 70° 25' 00" W, parallel 12° 21' 00" N to point No. 4, latitude 21° 21' 00" N and longitude 70° 09' 51" W.
2.2. From said point No.4, an arc of maximum circumference to point No. 5, latitude 12° 21' 54" N and longitude 70° 08' 25" W.
2.3. From said point No. 5, an arc or maximum circumference to point No. 6, latitude 12° 15' 46" N and longitude 69° 44' 21" W.
2.4. From said point No. 6, an arc of maximum circumference to point No. 7, latitude 11° 52' 45" N and longitude 69° 04' 45" W.
2.5. From said point No. 7, an arc of maximum circumference to point No. 8, latitude 11° 45' 30" N and longitude 68° 57' 15" W.
2.6. From said point No. 8, an arc of maximum circumference to point No.9, latitude 11° 44' 30" N and longitude 68° 49' 45" W.
2.7. From said point No. 9, an arc of maximum circumference to point No.10, latitude 11° 40' 00" N and longitude 68° 36' 00" W.
2.8. From said point No. 10, parallel 11° 40' 00" N to point No. 11, latitude 11° 40' 00" N and longitude 67° 59' 23" W.
biotech.law.lsu.edu/blaw/... /corres/ 20051m_040201/netherlandsfinal.doc
Here are the only maritime claims Aruba has (and Curacao and Bonaire):
Aruba territorial sea: 12 nm
Bonaire - None
Curacao - None
And here are Venezuela's maritime claims:
Venezuela - territorial sea: 12 nm
contiguous zone: 15 nm
exclusive economic zone: 200 nm
continental shelf: 200-m depth or to the depth of exploitation
http://www.bartleby.com/151/fields/11.html
-------------
So. Venezuela controls ALL the maritime activities - and has all the rights to - surrounding not only Aruba, but also Bonaire and Curacao.
Kyle wrote on June 13 2008:
He's (John Silvetti) seriously making plans to open an Aruba office
so he can conduct business easier in S. America
and that would allow him to do that.
LEAK said: Jug knew the Persistence's main purpose was oil related.
==================
Here's where it could get convoluted, but ponder this obvious, right in front of our face theory:
Remember the last minute boat change to the Persistence?
What if................Silvetti was awarded a survey/mapping contract by ??? for Venezuela, to map that area for planned future drilling?
Change of plans - no more Apache, Persistence will go, because they are being paid to go anyway.
Family is made aware of the change, and the reasons behind it. (LEAK said that Jug knew the Persistence's main purpose was oil related.)
Fast forward to arrival in Aruba.............. Tim Miller shows up with Dateline - known or unknown to Silvetti beforehand, it would put a black mark on him and Schaefer in the public eye to have Dateline filming their mapping/surveying of that area - considering they had all pleaded for donations to Search for Natalee.
First steps - before Miller/Dateline are aboard - topography mapping.
Second step - side scan sonar, solely for the benefit of TES and Dateline.
WHOA!!! They found something! Dammit! It's what they were looking for!!!
Miller/Dateline are removed by Silvetti because "Tim wasn't necessary any more, and was a liabiliy".
It was only Kyle's assumption that Tim was a liability because he was calling the family about the cage.
How about...................
Liability - Don't need a black mark in the public eye for when we move out to deeper waters to continue mapping/surveying the area now that we've already found Natalee. Can't possibly have TES and Dateline still on board filming that!
Not necessary any more - They had already found what Tim was there to find, therefore he was no longer necessary on the boat.
Continue "searching" out in deep waters ........................big to do about extending their initial timeframe of being there, meanwhile they are finishing their mapping/surveying.
Kyle's blog
Thurs 11-Jan 0030 hrs
The bathymetric survey of the new grid is completed.
The search area now totals approximately 57 sq miles
, compared to the original 22 sq miles.
go to link to see pics of area
Fri 25-Jan 0950 hrs
The Persistence leaves the dock this morning at 0730 hrs. Working during mainly daylight hours has been a welcome change for the crew and good for moral. The seas and winds have not been as severe lately. The last two days saw excellent progress
go to link to see pics of area
3D Perspective view of bathymetry showing water depth in feet. Black contour interval is 100ft
http://nholloway.blogspot.com/search?updated-min=2008-01-01T00%3A00%3A00-05%3A00&updated-max=2009-01-01T00%3A00%3A00-05%3A00&max-results=9
Fast forward to Jan 13 2009
Venezuela worries Aruba
Anton Foek THE WASHINGTON TIMES
Tuesday, January 13, 2009
ORANJESTAD, Aruba
On a clear day, one can easily see Venezuela from the southern part of this tiny Dutch Caribbean island - and its flaming towers drilling for oil and gas.
Russia and Venezuela recently began a joint drilling project in the waters bordering Aruba
. The government of Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez claims 28 fields holding an estimated 27 trillion cubic meters of natural gas.
A Russian consortium that includes the state-owned Gazprom is exploring five fields.
One of them -
Cardon 3
- is less than 14 miles away from Aruba.
-------------
Man
e
uvering
from April
2007/Jan 2008
BNamericas
Friday, April 27, 2007
US oil major
Chevron has finished shooting 530 sq km of 3D seismic data on the
Cardon 3
offshore block in western Venezuela.
Chevron is working with Canadian oil and gas independent PetroFalcon (TSX: PFC)
and soon will start a drilling program on Cardon 3
, Chevron E&P Latin America head Ali Moshiri told BNamericas.
"Now we are going through the interpretation phase to see if we can find a good prospect and after that we go ahead and begin development," he said.
Operators will drill one well as part of the development phase this year, Moshiri said.
Chevron holds a 70% interest in Cardon 3 and PetroFalcon the balance.
Chevron won Cardon 3 in 2005 as part of the Rafael Urdaneta project with a US$5.6mn bid.
http://images.rigzone.com/news/article.asp?a_id=44439
«
Last Edit: April 09, 2009, 11:09:13 AM by 2NJSons_Mom
»
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jen3560
Monkey Junky
Offline
Posts: 3338
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #815 4/8/09 -
«
Reply #79 on:
April 09, 2009, 10:59:49 AM »
From the very end of my post above:
Manouvering between Dec 2007/Jan 2008
Should be:
Manouvering From April 2007
Fixed...left Jan 2008 ???
«
Last Edit: April 09, 2009, 11:12:52 AM by 2NJSons_Mom
»
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