Natalee Case Discussion #815 4/8/09 - 4/16/09

[Tamikosmom]

A REMINDER


A BETRAYAL - KYLE KINGMAN'S OWN WORDS

The Discovery and First ROV Dive

Kyle Kingman:  Dateline tagged along with TM for a while pre-NH search. They (TM and Dateline) came on the Persistence between 15-Dec and 30-Dec. I found the trap on 1:45am Christmas morning. I got the OK to begin our ROV dive series for the 29th, so I made it our first dive.


The Analysis

Kyle Kingman:  We got visual of the fish trap and that it was suspicious. Basically, the fish trap door was open and there appeared to be a skull and torso-shape in sand on the door inside the trap.  Reviewing the 29-Dec video I noticed the torso shape in sand had a 90 degree angle and that the sand was supported from falling through the bottom of the trap, which was slightly excavated by currents. I proportioned out the distance from the top of the head, to shoulder, to that 90 degree angle and it was a match to Natalee's photo of her standing -head, to shoulder, to the end of her denim skirt. I showed TM the proportional match and the possibility of a skirt under the sand ...


The Meeting

Kyle Kingman:   On the morning of the 30th we met on board the Persistence with Hans Mos, Richardson, and the rest of the police brass and dive division. I showed them all the 29th dive video and they agreed that it was very suspicion and looked promising.


The Visual Dive

Kyle Kingman:  We had an American diver with us on the Dec 30th dive. We were encouraged to do so and invited by the Arubans. I requested all samples to be brought on board the Persistence for visual and top-side photographs. It was ignored by the project lead (John S.) who felt the Arubans would follow whatever they needed to do as far as proper protocol.

Kyle Kingman: Later that day 30-Dec we conducted the dive with the Aruban divers along with our own Tim Trahan.

Kyle Kingman:  When Tim T. gives one thumb down, he said that it was inconclusive.  He couldn't tell by his own admission.

Kyle Kingman:  The Arubans told us there wasn't anything of interest in the trap based on the visual-only inspection (Dateline and Tim Miller present).

Kyle Kingman:  John definitely believed the Arubans at their every word

Kyle Kingman:  Aruban divers deemed the cage to be not case related, and therefore Aruba had no interest in it.  At that point, I made the statement to all on board that we do have an interest and that we would recover the cage ourselves.  That is when Mos said they would dive on it but it would take 1 -2 weeks for a forensics team to arrive and that he would let Persistence know.


Tim Miller - A Liability
 
Kyle Kingman:  After the Dec 30th dive John [Silvetti] didn't want Tim Miller on board the Persistence because he said Tim wasn't necessary any more and was a liability. I don't know what that exactly means, but Tim wasn't hurting anything except releasing the statements to the press and Holloways that we found Natalee.


John Silvetti - Full Control

Kyle Kingman:  I hadn't slept in 48 hours. I crashed for a few hours rest and by the time I got up Dateline and Tim Miller had left the boat. That is when John [Silvetti] assumed full control over the remainder of the project and had us searching in the deepest portions of our search area which coincided with Richardson's remarks. Richardson told us after the Jan-7th dive to keep searching in deep water.

Kyle Kingman: We're being fed misinformation to keep us searching and out of their way while they cover their asses, destroy evidence, cover their tracks, and keep us out at sea and away from the trap.


The Recovery

Kyle Kingman:  For Jan 7th, Eduardo wasn't on the boat, neither were any media, Tim Miller, or Tim Trahan.

Kyle Kingman: The Persistence had no divers on the 7th. Tim Trahan was our diver on the 30th-Dec, but he was out of the country at the time. The Aruban divers were on the police boat, dove from their boat, and returned to their boat.

Kyle Kingman: The fabric(s?) are not visible on either the Dec 29th or 30th dives. There is about an inch of sand over the fabrics. The fabrics are completely covered. The diver sampled the sand and found the fabric underneath the sand.

Kyle Kingman: I get done in the survey room backing up the ROV dive and head to the back deck to talk to the Polis divers and see what they sampled and see the Polis boat way in the distance heading away fast. John doesn't seem concerned at all, but I am very dissapointed, concerned, and burning inside because I have a feeling that I/we will never know what they took from the trap. That evening I talked to John asking when we plan on recovering the trap. Previously this was part of the talks and plan, but this time he doesn't seem concerned about ever looking into the trap further. After John verbally BASHED me about the trap for what I said to Tim Miller about the sand body-form and that I believed her skirt was under the sand, John pretty much committed himself to the belief the trap wasn't what we were after. This shocked me because it was exactly what we were looking for- a fish trap lost at sea with human remains.

Kyle Kingman:  I was told to move forward and to forget about the trap. I was told not to show anyone the images.


The Underlying Motve

Kyle Kingman - John is not a believer in the trap. He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related, yet never studied the videos or bothered to inquire further. He had plans on doing business with Aruba and in S. America and he didn't want to hurt any feelings by talks hinting at lack of complete trust and friendship. I did not feel the same and we had a major difference in opinion. He was the one who never pressed ALE to be completely open with us with the trap evidence.

[2NJSons_Mom]

Good Morning Monkeys and Guests!

Come Out Come Out Whereever You Are! Please!

 

 

Ollie ollie ossenfree!   

I was off checking my cable provider's lineup and found that I can't get the movie on Sunday. 

Oh NO 2NJ....There has to be an alternative way to see it.... 

We have Lifetime but not LMN.  My son has DirecTV, so maybe he can TiVo...will have to see.       

[hotping]

Texasmom - this may help?


Legacy Offshore = Louis Schaefer

11/14/2007
Louis Schaefer retires and resigns his position as Chairman of the Board of Superior Offshore International.

11/15/2007
Superior Offshore Int'l:  Louis Schaefer sells more of his stocks:

11/20/2007
Louis Schaefer and Charles Zamora register Legacy Offshore, LLC; a Louisiana Limited Liability Company

Thanks Lifesong!   

Lifesong Could You check out this PDF and see if You think They are talking about the same Legacy Offshore that We Have been researching...TIA

C:\Documents and Settings\Owner\My Documents\Legacy fields.pdf

[hotping]

Texasmom - this may help?


Legacy Offshore = Louis Schaefer

11/14/2007
Louis Schaefer retires and resigns his position as Chairman of the Board of Superior Offshore International.

11/15/2007
Superior Offshore Int'l:  Louis Schaefer sells more of his stocks:

11/20/2007
Louis Schaefer and Charles Zamora register Legacy Offshore, LLC; a Louisiana Limited Liability Company

Thanks Lifesong!   

Lifesong Could You check out this PDF and see if You think They are talking about the same Legacy Offshore that We Have been researching...TIA

C:\Documents and Settings\Owner\My Documents\Legacy fields.pdf

Sorry....Let Me see if I can find a good link.....

[Lifesong]

Good Morning Monkeys and Guests!

Come Out Come Out Whereever You Are! Please!

 

 

Hi Hotping!

 

[2NJSons_Mom]

Texasmom - this may help?


Legacy Offshore = Louis Schaefer

11/14/2007
Louis Schaefer retires and resigns his position as Chairman of the Board of Superior Offshore International.

11/15/2007
Superior Offshore Int'l:  Louis Schaefer sells more of his stocks:

11/20/2007
Louis Schaefer and Charles Zamora register Legacy Offshore, LLC; a Louisiana Limited Liability Company

Thanks Lifesong!   

Lifesong Could You check out this PDF and see if You think They are talking about the same Legacy Offshore that We Have been researching...TIA

C:\Documents and Settings\Owner\My Documents\Legacy fields.pdf

Try attaching that pdf, again, hotping.  Thanks.

[hotping]

Good Morning Monkeys and Guests!

Come Out Come Out Whereever You Are! Please!

 

 

Ollie ollie ossenfree!   

I was off checking my cable provider's lineup and found that I can't get the movie on Sunday. 

Oh NO 2NJ....There has to be an alternative way to see it.... 

We have Lifetime but not LMN.  My son has DirecTV, so maybe he can TiVo...will have to see.       

I sure hope so! 

[Tamikosmom]

texasmom

I shared your video clip "I will rise again" with my daughter and son-in-law today.  They were moved.

Thank you again.

Janet

Thank you Janet, that's so nice to know!  Makes my day!   

Thought you might be interested....

Dallas Holm, the writer/performer of the song has achieved the following awards in recognition of his work in Gospel music.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dallas_Holm

snipped

Awards
Dove Awards

1977
Song of the Year: "Rise Again"
Songwriter of the Year
Male Vocalist of the Year
Mixed Group of the Year (Dallas Holm and Praise)
1979
Male Vocalist of the Year
Pop/Contemporary Album: All That Matters (Dallas Holm and Praise)
1992
Inspirational Album of the Year: Generation 2 Generation (Benson artists and their families)
Grammy nominations

1987
Best Gospel Performance - Male: "Against the Wind"
2007
Inducted into the Christian Music Hall of Fame

Texasmom

Thanks for all that background info.

When my son-in-law was in his early twentys he was involved in a similar video production.  Don Francisco's HE'S ALIVE was the background music.

GOOD MORNING MONKEYS!!

It is a beautiful morning in the Fraser Valley of British Columbia.

Janet
7:50 AM PT

[Anna]

Good Morning Monkeys and Guests!

Come Out Come Out Whereever You Are! Please!

 

 

Good morning, all and Hotping especially!

I'm here but my electric power is on again off again still from the storms.

Has anyone seen Magnolia since Sunday night?  That's when they were so bad and took out all the electricity much of which has yet to be restored.  Also still some out in Atlanta area.

[Anna]

Good Morning Monkeys and Guests!

Come Out Come Out Whereever You Are! Please!

 

 

Ollie ollie ossenfree!   

I was off checking my cable provider's lineup and found that I can't get the movie on Sunday. 

Oh NO 2NJ....There has to be an alternative way to see it.... 

We have Lifetime but not LMN.  My son has DirecTV, so maybe he can TiVo...will have to see.       

I sure hope so! 

2NJ,

You also might consider inviting yourself over to a friend's house who can get the movie to watch it there as well.

[Tamikosmom]

Good Morning Monkeys and Guests!

Come Out Come Out Whereever You Are! Please!

 

 

I am here!!!

 

Good Morning Hotping.

Janet

[2NJSons_Mom]

Good Morning Monkeys and Guests!

Come Out Come Out Whereever You Are! Please!

 

 

Good morning, all and Hotping especially!

I'm here but my electric power is on again off again still from the storms.

Has anyone seen Magnolia since Sunday night?  That's when they were so bad and took out all the electricity much of which has yet to be restored.  Also still some out in Atlanta area.

Just checked Magnolia's profile and she was last active around 11pm last night.  She could be experiencing the same power outage. 

[Tamikosmom]

Good Morning Monkeys and Guests!

Come Out Come Out Whereever You Are! Please!

 

 

Good morning, all and Hotping especially!

I'm here but my electric power is on again off again still from the storms.

Has anyone seen Magnolia since Sunday night?  That's when they were so bad and took out all the electricity much of which has yet to be restored.  Also still some out in Atlanta area.

Hi Anna

Magnolia is safe.  She was on the forum yesterday morning.

I am thankful you are safe.  In the Fraser Valley ... power outages are a given if it is windy ... it does not have to be a storm.  Falling trees are not necessarily the problem ... just the branches hitting the power lines.

Janet

+++++

I sure hope Magnolia is OK.....

I am fine, Hotping.

The power was out for a while due to high winds and falling trees.
Back up and running now.

[Anna]

Thanks for the update on Magnolia.

Well, our service is supposedly restored but it keeps going out again every couple of hours for about half an hour. 

Also we will still have a few more trees just fall over that were uprooted during the storm but not yet over.  They are uprooted but it is not showing yet or they are broken and not yet the pieces apart.  So is still danger from falling trees.  But the vast majority is over thankfully.

[hotping]

Texasmom - this may help?


Legacy Offshore = Louis Schaefer

11/14/2007
Louis Schaefer retires and resigns his position as Chairman of the Board of Superior Offshore International.

11/15/2007
Superior Offshore Int'l:  Louis Schaefer sells more of his stocks:

11/20/2007
Louis Schaefer and Charles Zamora register Legacy Offshore, LLC; a Louisiana Limited Liability Company

Thanks Lifesong!   

Lifesong Could You check out this PDF and see if You think They are talking about the same Legacy Offshore that We Have been researching...TIA

C:\Documents and Settings\Owner\My Documents\Legacy fields.pdf

Try attaching that pdf, again, hotping.  Thanks.

I reread it and its seems that XTO Energy Inc acquired properties from H.L. Hunt Properties and some of the properties were called Legacy Offshore Fields.....I don't believe it had anything to do with  Legacy Offshore that We have been researching...Sorry I just got excited when I shore Legacy Offshore... 

 

[hotping]

Good Morning Monkeys and Guests!

Come Out Come Out Whereever You Are! Please!

 

 

Good morning, all and Hotping especially!

I'm here but my electric power is on again off again still from the storms.

Has anyone seen Magnolia since Sunday night?  That's when they were so bad and took out all the electricity much of which has yet to be restored.  Also still some out in Atlanta area.

Good Morning Anna! I hope They get the Electricity restored soon where it is not on again off again....That is certainly irritating....but I guess it is better than none at all... 

[hotping]

Good Morning Monkeys and Guests!

Come Out Come Out Whereever You Are! Please!

 

 

I am here!!!

 

Good Morning Hotping.

Janet

Good Morning Janet!....I'm sure glad to see some familiar faces...It was kinda spooky in this big ole cage with just the guests and Me! 

[Tamikosmom]

Good Morning Monkeys and Guests!

Come Out Come Out Whereever You Are! Please!

 

 

I am here!!!

 

Good Morning Hotping.

Janet

Good Morning Janet!....I'm sure glad to see some familiar faces...It was kinda spooky in this big ole cage with just the guests and Me! 

 

Hotping ... you gave me a good laugh.  It was a perfect start to my day.

Janet

[Anna]

Good Morning Monkeys and Guests!

Come Out Come Out Whereever You Are! Please!

 

 

I am here!!!

 

Good Morning Hotping.

Janet

Good Morning Janet!....I'm sure glad to see some familiar faces...It was kinda spooky in this big ole cage with just the guests and Me! 

 


Yes, that would be beyond scary!  They might all come down and attack at once!

 

[2NJSons_Mom]

Keep in mind that during any given day, the guest count will include SM members who cannot log in during the day while working, and are reading when they can.   Nothing scary, imo.