Natalee Case Discussion #815 4/8/09 - 4/16/09

[Anna]

Kyle Kingman has updated his linkedin site. 

(snipped)

Kyle Kingman’s Summary
I graduated from Rutgers University with a Masters in Marine Geology/Oceanography, Masters in Engineering Geophysics, and BS in Geology. I began consulting while in grad school for the offshore industry focusing on hydrographic survey and shallow geophysics. My experience since then has taken me around the globe with strong emphasis in most of the major offshore industry geographical arenas including the: Gulf of Mexico, North Sea, Persian Gulf, Mediterranean, Caribbean, Arabian Sea, Pacific, Atlantic, Arctic....etc, also spanning major sectors of offshore industry including: Submarine telecommunications, submarine power transmission, pipelines, LNG facilities, offshore wind and alternative energy, shipwrecks, and even finding missing persons.

I am currently self employed and spend most of my time involved in project management roles, consulting, data acquisition and QC offshore, and processing, analysis, and reporting onshore both abroad and from my home office.

My aim is to provide clients with a superior product by combining innovation and technology and time-tested and proven methods, with excellence and integrity.


More here:

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/b/65/464

Well then.

From the horse's mouth..............so to speak.

Does what I highlighted above mean Kyle is now a project manager or is that Kylespeak for meaning he works with project managers?  If it means he is now a project manager, then that is career advancement and his words as posted by monkeys and freebirds have not harmed his career as accused.

I for one did not ever think that it would be a career deterrent because that is a very specialized field and the demand so high that work should be more than plentiful.  It's not as though the demand for oil is going to go down during the foreseeable future.

I think the accusations of our doing harm to his career are invented to try to get us to stop because they do not reflect on his professional abilities.  We are the ones upholding his abilities and saying he knows what he is talking about when he says he sees what he sees in that trap.  That is what I think an employ err would be most concerned about, ability.  Few are going to get into the ins and outs of politics in this tragedy of Natalee when hiring a pro for a project.  It's like asking personal beliefs, etc. and has nothing to do with ability.

JMO. . .

[2NJSons_Mom]

Here are a few interesting comments to Kyle's Persistence blog.  These are from the link to Kyle's blogs posted 12/19/07 - 12/28/07.  As I understand it, Kyle did filter comments so he let these through...


Link to Blog Post:
http://nholloway.blogspot.com/2007/12/viii-day-1-side-scan-sonar-search.html

Link to Comments only:
https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=6300940444130343140&postID=8338291030553571916

Anonymous said...
I guess van der Sloots attorneys filed to disallow any of your findings in a court of law due to the fact that you are a private search party for the Holloways and evidence may be planted.  If you are fortunate to find her, will you have one of the Dutch officials on board Persistence before anything is raised from the ocean?  Good luck with your search for Natalee. Americans are watching now more than ever after the news of Aruba closing the case.
December 19, 2007 10:19 AM

Miss-Underestimated said...
Who will "own" any evidence in your search? Will interpool be involved?  God Bless all of you for your dedication to finding Natalee Holloway. Beth and Dave, stay strong, we are all behind you. 
December 19, 2007 2:45 PM

Anonymous said...
If Natalee is found will she initially be brought to Aruba? It seems most likely that they will let any evidence deteriorate and decline to properly process the evidence. It seems rather clear that the Aruban Judiciary is uninterested in actually resolving the case. Is it possible to return Natalie immediately to the USA (bypassing Aruba) for forensic analysis by the FBI?
December 20, 2007 3:56 PM

-Rolls said...
Excellent Kyle, thanks; the image of the anchor and chain gives a very good idea of the possible resolution. Also, please don't forget the folk who designed and constructed these great tools you are using.  Calm seas and fair winds,  -Rolls 
December 22, 2007 12:07 AM

Anonymous said...
I heard a news report that, in your sample testing, your crew placed a crab trap similar to the one widely believed to be used to dispose of Natalee to conduct tests. What a brilliant move. If true, this should train your eye to see the real thing, if she is down there.  How did those pre-search tests go? Under the conditions where you able to visualize the sample crab trap?
December 23, 2007 2:37 AM

-Rolls said...
"This test provided valuable information, both confirming that the construction materials alone can be detected and what kind of signatures to expect from the materials when on the seabed."  May we see some representative sonar images posted? TIA.  -Rolls
December 24, 2007 12:50 AM

Was there a news report about a sample cage?   I know Dr. Hodges wrote about the sample cage on his website as having been done in December, but the writing was done in January, iirc.   

[Anna]

Good Morning Monkeys.....

Mere,

I hope you completed your taxes.  I filed for an extension which is not at all unusual for me.  I find the low penalties and interest worth the extra time it allows me.  Just couldn't get it together in time yet again.  Last year I hope I will be adding up all those cans of dog food!

[Anna]

O/T

OMG!  Orbs!  Some people seem to think these are some sort of spirit beings.  I think they are humidity droplets inside camera that reflect light in different directions. Light has to be coming from certain angle to create them, sort of the way a rainbow is created. But if they were spirit beings, guess this would be the haunted hail storm, lol.




 

[2NJSons_Mom]

Kyle Kingman has updated his linkedin site. 

(snipped)

Kyle Kingman’s Summary
I graduated from Rutgers University with a Masters in Marine Geology/Oceanography, Masters in Engineering Geophysics, and BS in Geology. I began consulting while in grad school for the offshore industry focusing on hydrographic survey and shallow geophysics. My experience since then has taken me around the globe with strong emphasis in most of the major offshore industry geographical arenas including the: Gulf of Mexico, North Sea, Persian Gulf, Mediterranean, Caribbean, Arabian Sea, Pacific, Atlantic, Arctic....etc, also spanning major sectors of offshore industry including: Submarine telecommunications, submarine power transmission, pipelines, LNG facilities, offshore wind and alternative energy, shipwrecks, and even finding missing persons.

I am currently self employed and spend most of my time involved in project management roles, consulting, data acquisition and QC offshore, and processing, analysis, and reporting onshore both abroad and from my home office.

My aim is to provide clients with a superior product by combining innovation and technology and time-tested and proven methods, with excellence and integrity.


More here:

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/b/65/464

Well then.

From the horse's mouth..............so to speak.

Does what I highlighted above mean Kyle is now a project manager or is that Kylespeak for meaning he works with project managers?  If it means he is now a project manager, then that is career advancement and his words as posted by monkeys and freebirds have not harmed his career as accused.

I for one did not ever think that it would be a career deterrent because that is a very specialized field and the demand so high that work should be more than plentiful.  It's not as though the demand for oil is going to go down during the foreseeable future.

I think the accusations of our doing harm to his career are invented to try to get us to stop because they do not reflect on his professional abilities.  We are the ones upholding his abilities and saying he knows what he is talking about when he says he sees what he sees in that trap.  That is what I think an employ err would be most concerned about, ability.  Few are going to get into the ins and outs of politics in this tragedy of Natalee when hiring a pro for a project.  It's like asking personal beliefs, etc. and has nothing to do with ability.

JMO. . .

I took it to mean he is managing projects as contracted through various clients.  His brief employment with Alpine apparently was not as fulfilling as working on his own, but that is just my thought, and not 'fact'.  His blog has only a couple of new entries in the past year or so....not sure if all projects would be worthy of such documentation.  His knowledge and skills have never been doubted.  His personality is/was another story. 

[jen3560]

So I wonder how those who are saying we took Kyle's words out of context - and who are believing the lies he apparently told them after the fact - are now reconciling with themselves Kyle's own words to SM two years ago?

He very clearly states there were human remains found in that cage.  He also very clearly states that the FBI said there were human remains found in that cage.

Now here's the question.........

WHAT HAPPENED TO THOSE REMAINS?

Richardson told Kyle the ENTIRETY of the cage contents were sent to the FBI.

FBI told Kyle that SOME of the contents went to Holland for testing, and FBI received the rest.

Obviously Kyle is stating the FBI knew there were human remains.

Obviously what the FBI tested contained NOTHING that could prove this.

WHO told the FBI there were human remains collected from that cage?

What did Holland do with the human remains they were sent (obviously the FBI did not receive them)?

Or did those remains even get sent to Holland?

 

I don't think I knew that...right?

I could have sworn that got posted here before...............

But here it is (in context for the naysayers)  This was the day after Kyle joined our forum and shared his initial information with us.  This will also show some of the discussion about keeping this info (at that time) under wraps in case there was really an honest investigation ongoing about what was found.

I left out posts from other Freebirds who participated in this dialogue.

Note - the information of Kyle having sent screen shots to the FBI is what we later learned to have been a lie, and also note - that was Kyle's ONLY attempt (that we were told about) of having "sent this information to the FBI".

March 19, 2008

post from ME to Kyle:

I find it very curious that Mos and/or Richardson didn't take statements from everyone on board. (the Persistence)

kyle wrote:

Why?
If I were Mos I would have done the following:
- Once the Persistence finds the trap, convince them it's nothing significant
This would calm media pressure and keep the Persistence searching while the investigation continues. No statements needed because this lets the team know it was case significant and of elevated interest.
- While the search continues offshore unabated, process the trap site by a Dutch forensic team and continue getting the investigation buttoned up
- While the forensic results are being processed, keep the search going as a smoke screen. With the Persistence puppet in play, everyone involved is relatively calm knowing that as long as we're searching, nothing significant is found.
- Buy as much time as they can using the confession tape to encourage the Persistence to remain searching
- Dateline opens up a can of worms by showing the public (and the perps) the trap, but claims it was of no interest
- Put out a statement claiming no evidenciary value in the samples.
- Continue investigation without media pressure or public outcry.
- Once the investigation is complete, get all the authorities in play ready to arrest the whole lot simultaneously.
- Arrest everyone involved then announce the full results.

Kyle wrote:

After studying the images, go back to the press release from Hans Mos regarding the trap and ask yourself these questions:

-Does this statement really say anything at all?
-Does the official FBI report say anything at all (verbatim to Mos's release)?
- If the fabric was clearly a blue denim-like fabric (a skirt perhaps) why was the sample compared to Natalee's blouse?
- Did the FBI receive this blue fabric or another fabric?
- If it was another fabric, was it a fabric sampled from the trap?
- Why would the FBI make a statement as they did on the heels of the Dateline special?

The answers to these questions moves this case into three possible directions:
1) The case is currently under investigation and moving towards justice for Natalee. A lot of people will go to prison, but it may take months to complete the investigation from the beginning, including the coverup and investigation. judges...etc.
2) The case is currently being professionally covered up and the key evidence is shelved, or destroyed.
3) We have not yet found Natalee and what we found is someone else - but no interest is being demonstrated at finding out who it is.

In my opinion the chances of either above scenario are equally split three ways.


I wrote:

Kyle,

Can you give us names of Aruban officials present on the Jan 7th dive?

Can you also tell us - were Persistence divers wanting to dive on Jan 7th? Were they prevented from doing so by Aruban officials?

Were there any Aruban officials onboard the Persistence during the dive on Jan 7th? Or were they all on their own boat?

Has Aruba asked you for the ROV footage from that dive?

Kyle wrote:

I don't have the names of the Aruban divers from the Jan 7th dive, but we should have a record of it. I know two of them, but forget their names. John will know the third diver's name if necessary. I don't recall who all was there on the 7th. The Persistence had no divers on the 7th. Tim Trahan was our diver on the 30th-Dec, but he was out of the country at the time. The Aruban divers were on the police boat, dove from their boat, and returned to their boat.

I wrote:

Just from having followed criminal cases before- I would think that for prosecutorial value, Mos would have needed statements from the crew.

Mos had no way of knowing as of Dec 29, 30th or even by Jan 7th whether what you found was, or was not Natalee. For any evidence to be admissable in court - I would think very detailed statements from you all would be necessary. 

Also - if he were looking to bring down the whole corrupt "house of cards", he would need information from you all as to what you filmed of the recovery dive by his divers.....................I would think.


Kyle wrote:

I don't know how this should be handled.
- I think the underwater pictures taken by the divers of the samples from the trap would be very useful.
- We tried repeatedly for weeks unsecessfully to get an inventory from the FBI. Right before the Dateline special aired we got word (after pressure from C. Rice's office) from the FBI that they were testing the samples, and that HALF the samples were send to the NFI. This contradicted Richardson who said he sent everything to the FBI.

- It would be useful knowing exactly what the FBI tested.
- I send the FBI screen shots of the Jan 7th dive and blue fabric with a note asking if they can verify what was sampled versus the fabric pictured. I did not get a response. This was several weeks ago.

I wrote:

Kyle, I agree with each of the three scenarios being equally possible at this point in time.

I think the only way anyone could possibly know for sure - is if Beth were to contact the FBI and find out what, exactly, they received from Richardson.

One other way it could be possible - is to have John Kelly meet with Mos and go over the Aruban case file as it pertains to your find - pictures, officer reports, chain of custody logs, etc.

I think Mos telling Richardson in late January that he (Richardson) could no longer receive evidence/information is very telling............and might indicate that Mos does not trust Richardson - and that may have everything to do with what was recovered from your find.

That could indicate an intense investigation going on, which would include bringing down many of the corrupt officials as they can.

The only thing that makes me possibly discount that scenario - is that statements were not taken from you guys after Dec 29th.

[2NJSons_Mom]

Jen, your post peeked my interest in what OE was posting about on 3/18/08....this is just one of several:

SNIPPING a quote from Janet:
Also the dive was on December 30, 2007.  Why did Aruba not immediately send the fabric to the FBI for forensic testing?  Why did Aruba wait unti January 22, 2008?
----------

- We were told by Richardson that he personally immediately sent the samples to the FBI for forensic analysis.
- I was suprised to hear the Jan-22nd date.  To me there are two weeks missing there.

[2NJSons_Mom]

What is Serge Mansur to Jossy?  Nephew?  I was looking at his website earlier and read his bio through a translator, but there were so many Mansurs mentioned, I got lost.  I had seen the ad on the bottom of the Diario page.

www.sergemansur.com 

[Lifesong]

Thanks, Jen! 


I'd like to speak to this notion of taking Kyle's words out of context.  I'm a little tired of Kyle trying to have it both ways.  Kyle attempted to tie the FBs hands behind their backs with claims of intellectual property, etc. to prevent them from publishing the facts and the opinions he had brought them.  When they sought legal advice and found a way around his threats, Kyle claimed "out of context".

Kyle and his defenders seem to think that only they were created with the intelligence to discern fact from opinion.  I appreciate that Kermit, Jen and the other FBs here didn't feel that way. 

There was no other trap/cage that Kyle was discussing with the FBs.  There were no other searches nor any other evidence he was discussing either.  There is no out of context here.  We know what Kyle was talking about.  We know which quotes were his opinions.

Perhaps Kyle's real beef about out of context is that we don't know what is fact and what is a lie, an embellishment, or Kyle's self-important spin.


JMO and only MO

[Anna]

Thanks, Jen! 


I'd like to speak to this notion of taking Kyle's words out of context.  I'm a little tired of Kyle trying to have it both ways.  Kyle attempted to tie the FBs hands behind their backs with claims of intellectual property, etc. to prevent them from publishing the facts and the opinions he had brought them.  When they sought legal advice and found a way around his threats, Kyle claimed "out of context".

Kyle and his defenders seem to think that only they were created with the intelligence to discern fact from opinion.  I appreciate that Kermit, Jen and the other FBs here didn't feel that way. 

There was no other trap/cage that Kyle was discussing with the FBs.  There were no other searches nor any other evidence he was discussing either.  There is no out of context here.  We know what Kyle was talking about.  We know which quotes were his opinions.

Perhaps Kyle's real beef about out of context is that we don't know what is fact and what is a lie, an embellishment, or Kyle's self-important spin.


JMO and only MO

Thank you, Lifesong,

And I tend to agree.  Just saying something is taken out of context doesn't mean that it happened.

The normal reaction is to place the statements into the proper context for clarification, not just say they were taken out of context.

And for most of the statements of Kyle, there is no other context as they stand alone in what he is saying.  Thanks to Kyle's talents as a writer, he is more than able to articulate his thoughts and quite concisely at that.

But I am always open to someone providing any specifics as to how things could be out of context.   So far, not one shred of anything actually having been distorted as to meaning has surfaced.

[Blue Moon]

Thanks, Jen! 


I'd like to speak to this notion of taking Kyle's words out of context.  I'm a little tired of Kyle trying to have it both ways.  Kyle attempted to tie the FBs hands behind their backs with claims of intellectual property, etc. to prevent them from publishing the facts and the opinions he had brought them.  When they sought legal advice and found a way around his threats, Kyle claimed "out of context".

Kyle and his defenders seem to think that only they were created with the intelligence to discern fact from opinion.  I appreciate that Kermit, Jen and the other FBs here didn't feel that way. 

There was no other trap/cage that Kyle was discussing with the FBs.  There were no other searches nor any other evidence he was discussing either.  There is no out of context here.  We know what Kyle was talking about.  We know which quotes were his opinions.

Perhaps Kyle's real beef about out of context is that we don't know what is fact and what is a lie, an embellishment, or Kyle's self-important spin.


JMO and only MO

These defenders are also the same ones who raked us over the coals on our views about CLW also.  How did that turn out for them.  SILENCE. Not one word on the results of that pond search.  Caps really showed them the TRUTH didn't he?  They were made a fool of by him (and bought into every word he said). JMO

[Anna]

BlueMoon,

You are so right.  So Dave sent somebody down to collect the remains as he had been told to do half a dozen times and nada!

Has there even been a report or presser from Goldba or anybody on the search of the pond?  Surely he and Rhino are home by now?

So what's the explanation on that?  Same as always, change the subject by bashing the monkeys some more?

[Anna]

Let me guess.

We all took CapsLockWizard out of context!

 

[Lifesong]

Here's an interesting comment Kyle let through:

Link to Blog post:  http://nholloway.blogspot.com/2008/01/x-persistence.html

Link to Comments only:  https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=6300940444130343140&postID=4708342715333502082

perspicacious said...
Kyle, you had posted that your search had nothing to do with thought-print analysis by Andrew Hodges and bizarre theories. On his website you can read where he refutes that completely:

http://forensicthoughtprints.com/default.aspx?200819

According to Hodges and he is quite detailed about it, the search is entirely based on his pseudo-science conclusions about the cage from his nonsensical deductions from three Deepak emails, which really told nothing more that the statements he also gave to the police (now published). Typical of the Hodges' logic? That when Deepak speculated that Natalee might have ended up in a crack house that he was referring to a fish trap (crack meaning the slots in a trap and house defining the cage). Hodges gives a time-line which simply doesn't fit with known phone and computer records. That's just sad and sick.

Even sadder is that the trip has been funded and guided by this kind of distorted reasoning. I'm sure you can't publish this. You seem to be a nice person, a logical man, but to associate your own credentials with the likes of this without some kind of public distancing is, in my opinion, a mistake. The police said that their investigations revealed that no fish trap was stolen. Hodges in this recent statement says he was able to find one of the fisherman, who told him that the trap wasn't actually stolen in a break-in, but that it was just being stored outside the huts and was just missing. That's not only a major change in the long told rumor (that it was taken in a break-in), but, none of these fisherman ever told this to the police (it's not in any of their statements to the police). Hodges appears to be an opportunist who has now made up new information just to serve his own interests. I honestly, feel sorry that a person of your character has become involved in this grand charade. Hodges is an evil, cruel man to do this to Dave Holloway and all the people involved with your search.

January 10, 2008 10:34 AM

[jen3560]

Thanks, Jen! 


I'd like to speak to this notion of taking Kyle's words out of context.  I'm a little tired of Kyle trying to have it both ways.  Kyle attempted to tie the FBs hands behind their backs with claims of intellectual property, etc. to prevent them from publishing the facts and the opinions he had brought them.  When they sought legal advice and found a way around his threats, Kyle claimed "out of context".

Kyle and his defenders seem to think that only they were created with the intelligence to discern fact from opinion.  I appreciate that Kermit, Jen and the other FBs here didn't feel that way. 

There was no other trap/cage that Kyle was discussing with the FBs.  There were no other searches nor any other evidence he was discussing either.  There is no out of context here.  We know what Kyle was talking about.  We know which quotes were his opinions.

Perhaps Kyle's real beef about out of context is that we don't know what is fact and what is a lie, an embellishment, or Kyle's self-important spin.


JMO and only MO

YW LifeSong!

And thank YOU for everything you've said and done!

I haven't been a member here for very long (nor did I ever read here much) but I am heartened by the intelligence, dedication, resourcefulness and earnestness of the Monkeys.

[jen3560]

Thanks, Jen! 


I'd like to speak to this notion of taking Kyle's words out of context.  I'm a little tired of Kyle trying to have it both ways.  Kyle attempted to tie the FBs hands behind their backs with claims of intellectual property, etc. to prevent them from publishing the facts and the opinions he had brought them.  When they sought legal advice and found a way around his threats, Kyle claimed "out of context".

Kyle and his defenders seem to think that only they were created with the intelligence to discern fact from opinion.  I appreciate that Kermit, Jen and the other FBs here didn't feel that way. 

There was no other trap/cage that Kyle was discussing with the FBs.  There were no other searches nor any other evidence he was discussing either.  There is no out of context here.  We know what Kyle was talking about.  We know which quotes were his opinions.

Perhaps Kyle's real beef about out of context is that we don't know what is fact and what is a lie, an embellishment, or Kyle's self-important spin.


JMO and only MO

These defenders are also the same ones who raked us over the coals on our views about CLW also.  How did that turn out for them.  SILENCE. Not one word on the results of that pond search.  Caps really showed them the TRUTH didn't he?  They were made a fool of by him (and bought into every word he said). JMO

That is because the two issues go hand in hand, IMO.

Think about it this way...........

If Kyle told the truth about what they found and what happened to it (and I have no reason to doubt that), then where does that leave Caps and his believers?

If Natalee was found in that cage - then caps and his witness are both proven to be FOS.

For those who are married to this pond/witness fiasco - any other solution is not possible in their minds.

For those who were the most vocal in their attempts to smear Kermit - thereby trying to cause folks to doubt the frog's credibility, and therefore casting doubt on what of Kyle's was shared here - they were the most embedded with Caps and his shenanigans.

I learned very soon after Kerm first shared information here, that one person who was vehemently protecting and supporting Caps was on the telephone and firing off emails with some of the others who then came out swinging against Kerm.

It's disgusting, disturbing, pathetic and tiresome.  But at the end of the day - it is merely tragically sad. 

[jen3560]

BlueMoon,

You are so right.  So Dave sent somebody down to collect the remains as he had been told to do half a dozen times and nada!

Has there even been a report or presser from Goldba or anybody on the search of the pond?  Surely he and Rhino are home by now?

So what's the explanation on that?  Same as always, change the subject by bashing the monkeys some more?

I'm also curious as to the silence about the results of this pond search.  Golba and Rhino returned home last week.

[jen3560]

Let me guess.

We all took CapsLockWizard out of context!

 

    We just don't understand Aruba's system.

[klaasend]

What is Serge Mansur to Jossy?  Nephew?  I was looking at his website earlier and read his bio through a translator, but there were so many Mansurs mentioned, I got lost.  I had seen the ad on the bottom of the Diario page.

www.sergemansur.com 

Translated page:

http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sergemansur.com%2Fcategory%2Fnederlands%2F&sl=nl&tl=en&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

[Tamikosmom]

Kyle Kingman states in an email to Jug Twitty and ldstlou that Tim Miller left the Persistence "on his own terms" on the day following the December 30th visual dive.  However ... according to Kyle Kingman's own words to the Natalee's Freebirds ... John Silvetti wanted Tim Miller off the Persistence ... he had become a liability.

Considering Tim Miller's suspicions regarding the claims of the Aruban divers that nothing Natalee Holloway case related was found in the trap ... could it be that the Costa Rica tip was a fabricated diversion and ... Tim Miller was under the false impression that he left the Persistence on "his own terms"?
 
Janet

++++++++


TIM MILLER - OWN TERMS

ldstlou
Re: The Cage « Reply #157 on: March 19, 2009, 12:25:09 pm »

The last posts are taken from the e-mail that Kyle sent to Jug and I in December ...

Kyle Kingman:  Tim Miller went to Nicaragua on his own terms and Dateline followed him. Tim was chasing down the Nicaraguan lead. He wasn't removed from the Persistence.

http://goldmonkey.org/index.php?topic=980.msg12191#msg12191


TIM MILLER - A LIABILITY

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman:  This occurred on Dec 30th when the Arubans told us there wasn't anything of interest in the trap based on the visual-only inspection (Dateline and Tim Miller present). After the Dec 30th dive John didn't want Tim Miller on board the Persistence because he said Tim wasn't necessary any more and was a liability. I don't know what that exactly means, but Tim wasn't hurting anything except releasing the statements to the press and Holloways that we found Natalee. Although likely true, it was premature and should have been replaced with action- seeing that the evidence was collected and handled properly.

I know Tim believed me and was convinced 100% which is why he went and told Dave that we found Natalee on Dec 29th. John stood back and waited and worked with the Aruban Polis to arrange the next dive -Dec 30th's which was the visual-only dive.

On the night of the 30th (I believe this was Tim's last night on the Persistence) I approached Tim and proposed some ideas to him. I suggested that we shouldn't take the Aruban Polis divers at their word and proceed with planning a recovery of the trap. Also, I proposed the trap site may not be pristine or the Polis may have already knew about it. This statement was backed up by several comments we heard, behavior we observed, and other things. Tim told me he thought I was right but didn't know what to do about it. I hadn't slept in 48 hours. I crashed for a few hours rest and by the time I got up Dateline and Tim Miller had left the boat. That is when John assumed full control over the remainder of the project and had us searching in the deepest portions of our search area which coincided with Richardson's remarks. Richardson told us after the Jan-7th dive to keep searching in deep water. John told me then he didn't want to hear me ever mention the trap again. Of course this didn't set well with me. After the Jan 7th Dive I got off the boat for R&R from the 9th-14th at the Holiday Inn.

Remember after the Jan-7th dive which sampled the trap Richardson told John emphatically to "keep searching she's still out there in the deep ocean". Meanwhile I'm standing on the beach watching the Dutch Coast Guard at the trap site for 42 and 45 minutes respectively over two days (11-12th). When I got back to the Hotel on the 11th and 12th after seeing the coasties out there I told John. He didn't want to hear it and didn't believe it. However, a couple weeks later he told me he looked into it by talking to Richardson who said "...not to worry, the Coast Guard doesn't have dive capabilities".

Kyle Kingman: He (Tim Miller) stepped off on or about the 1st of Jan to follow up on the false lead in Costa Rica IIRC.