Natalee Case Discussion #815 4/8/09 - 4/16/09

[Keepthefaith]

In his email to Jug Twitty ... Kyle Kingman attempts to backtrack on his own words submitted to the Natalee's Freebirds in regards to John Silvetti's betrayal.

Hey ... Silvetti's objective and focus should have been justice for Natalee Holloway ... closure for her family and ... accountability to those who prayfully and monetarily upheld the Persistence undertaking to bring Natalee Holloway home ... home to American soil.

Janet

++++++++

KYLE KINGMAN - JUG TWITTY

ldstlou
Re: The Cage « Reply #157 on: March 19, 2009, 12:25:09 pm »

The last posts are taken from the e-mail that Kyle sent to Jug and I in December ...

In December of 2008 Kyle wrote to Jug and I that John had remained "objective and focused" during the cage search.

http://goldmonkey.org/index.php?topic=980.msg12191#msg12191


KYLE KINGMAN - NATALEE'S FREEBIRDS

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman:  John is not a believer in the trap. He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related, yet never studied the videos or bothered to inquire further. He had plans on doing business with Aruba and in S. America and he didn't want to hurt any feelings by talks hinting at lack of complete trust and friendship. I did not feel the same and we had a major difference in opinion. He was the one who never pressed ALE to be completely open with us with the trap evidence. I would have forced them to. However, John was the one paying my invoices so I was forced to sit back and hope for the best.

Kyle Kingman:  I know John went to Aruba solely to find Natalee. He did make several comments about trying to land some work through contacts he met while in Aruba. This alone isn't a conflict of interest, but it tainted his focus in my opinion. I can't blame him for that, but he did take too much focus off the trap too soon. He claims to know a lot more than I do. I agree, but knowing more information from someone I don't trust is dangerous in my opinion. I'd rather know less lies.

Kyle Kingman:  I havn't heard John mention anything about the pipeline project. If it happens, I hope he's able to do the project. It would be great and his company would be in good position to bid on the job. It wasn't his purpose on going to Aruba.  ... Well, he's a pretty shrewd businessman and usually thinks at least three steps ahead. We'll see how this plays out.

Kyle Kingman:  ... I requested all samples to be brought on board the Persistence for visual and top-side photographs. It was ignored by the project lead (John S.) who felt the Arubans would follow whatever they needed to do as far as proper protocol.

Kyle Kingman:  The Arubans told us there wasn't anything of interest in the trap based on the visual-only inspection (Dateline and Tim Miller present).
 
Kyle Kingman:  John definitely believed the Arubans at their every word.

Kyle Kingman:  I was told to move forward and to forget about the trap. I was told not to show anyone the images.

Kyle Kingman:  I havn't heard John mention anything about the pipeline project. If it happens, I hope he's able to do the project. It would be great and his company would be in good position to bid on the job. It wasn't his purpose on going to Aruba.  ... Well, he's a pretty shrewd businessman and usually thinks at least three steps ahead. We'll see how this plays out.

LOGIC DICTATES

[Nut44x4]

  BBBWwwaaaaaaaaaaaaa! LMAO..... Taco Pina lol ... I know I am slow, but I had this typed out a half hour ago and then the phone rang before I got to post it
 

[Blue Moon]

BBBWwwaaaaaaaaaaaaa! LMAO..... Taco Pina lol

Me too.      TM, where is our little laughing girl?

[texasmom]

[texasmom]

Seems like if they know what we call ole Joe, they'd know what we call Julia too.   

[Blue Moon]

Thanks.  This always makes me smile (times x 4).

[Blue Moon]

Thanks.  This always makes me smile (times x 4).

Whoops!   (times x5)

[texasmom]

Thanks.  This always makes me smile (times x 4).

Whoops!   (times x5)

Me too!   

[Lifesong]

                                                 

[Lifesong]

Here are a few interesting comments to Kyle's Persistence blog.  These are from the link to Kyle's blogs posted 12/19/07 - 12/28/07.  As I understand it, Kyle did filter comments so he let these through...


Link to Blog Post:
http://nholloway.blogspot.com/2007/12/viii-day-1-side-scan-sonar-search.html

Link to Comments only:
https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=6300940444130343140&postID=8338291030553571916

Anonymous said...
I guess van der Sloots attorneys filed to disallow any of your findings in a court of law due to the fact that you are a private search party for the Holloways and evidence may be planted.  If you are fortunate to find her, will you have one of the Dutch officials on board Persistence before anything is raised from the ocean?  Good luck with your search for Natalee. Americans are watching now more than ever after the news of Aruba closing the case.
December 19, 2007 10:19 AM

Miss-Underestimated said...
Who will "own" any evidence in your search? Will interpool be involved?  God Bless all of you for your dedication to finding Natalee Holloway. Beth and Dave, stay strong, we are all behind you. 
December 19, 2007 2:45 PM

Anonymous said...
If Natalee is found will she initially be brought to Aruba? It seems most likely that they will let any evidence deteriorate and decline to properly process the evidence. It seems rather clear that the Aruban Judiciary is uninterested in actually resolving the case. Is it possible to return Natalie immediately to the USA (bypassing Aruba) for forensic analysis by the FBI?
December 20, 2007 3:56 PM

-Rolls said...
Excellent Kyle, thanks; the image of the anchor and chain gives a very good idea of the possible resolution. Also, please don't forget the folk who designed and constructed these great tools you are using.  Calm seas and fair winds,  -Rolls 
December 22, 2007 12:07 AM

Anonymous said...
I heard a news report that, in your sample testing, your crew placed a crab trap similar to the one widely believed to be used to dispose of Natalee to conduct tests. What a brilliant move. If true, this should train your eye to see the real thing, if she is down there.  How did those pre-search tests go? Under the conditions where you able to visualize the sample crab trap?
December 23, 2007 2:37 AM

-Rolls said...
"This test provided valuable information, both confirming that the construction materials alone can be detected and what kind of signatures to expect from the materials when on the seabed."  May we see some representative sonar images posted? TIA.  -Rolls
December 24, 2007 12:50 AM

Was there a news report about a sample cage?   I know Dr. Hodges wrote about the sample cage on his website as having been done in December, but the writing was done in January, iirc.   

I don't remember one, 2NJ, that's what caught my eye about it...  Haven't had a chance to research it though.

[texasmom]

Now Dan & Kelly are posting at the Lifetime discussion!   

http://community.mylifetime.com/community/lmn/discussions/talk-about-natalee-holloway

[Lifesong]

So I wonder how those who are saying we took Kyle's words out of context - and who are believing the lies he apparently told them after the fact - are now reconciling with themselves Kyle's own words to SM two years ago?

He very clearly states there were human remains found in that cage.  He also very clearly states that the FBI said there were human remains found in that cage.

Now here's the question.........

WHAT HAPPENED TO THOSE REMAINS?

Richardson told Kyle the ENTIRETY of the cage contents were sent to the FBI.

FBI told Kyle that SOME of the contents went to Holland for testing, and FBI received the rest.

Obviously Kyle is stating the FBI knew there were human remains.

Obviously what the FBI tested contained NOTHING that could prove this.

WHO told the FBI there were human remains collected from that cage?

What did Holland do with the human remains they were sent (obviously the FBI did not receive them)?

Or did those remains even get sent to Holland?

 

I don't think I knew that...right?

I could have sworn that got posted here before...............

But here it is (in context for the naysayers)  This was the day after Kyle joined our forum and shared his initial information with us.  This will also show some of the discussion about keeping this info (at that time) under wraps in case there was really an honest investigation ongoing about what was found.

I left out posts from other Freebirds who participated in this dialogue.

Note - the information of Kyle having sent screen shots to the FBI is what we later learned to have been a lie, and also note - that was Kyle's ONLY attempt (that we were told about) of having "sent this information to the FBI".

March 19, 2008

post from ME to Kyle:

I find it very curious that Mos and/or Richardson didn't take statements from everyone on board. (the Persistence)

kyle wrote:

Why?
If I were Mos I would have done the following:
- Once the Persistence finds the trap, convince them it's nothing significant
This would calm media pressure and keep the Persistence searching while the investigation continues. No statements needed because this lets the team know it was case significant and of elevated interest.
- While the search continues offshore unabated, process the trap site by a Dutch forensic team and continue getting the investigation buttoned up
- While the forensic results are being processed, keep the search going as a smoke screen. With the Persistence puppet in play, everyone involved is relatively calm knowing that as long as we're searching, nothing significant is found.
- Buy as much time as they can using the confession tape to encourage the Persistence to remain searching
- Dateline opens up a can of worms by showing the public (and the perps) the trap, but claims it was of no interest
- Put out a statement claiming no evidenciary value in the samples.
- Continue investigation without media pressure or public outcry.
- Once the investigation is complete, get all the authorities in play ready to arrest the whole lot simultaneously.
- Arrest everyone involved then announce the full results.

Kyle wrote:

After studying the images, go back to the press release from Hans Mos regarding the trap and ask yourself these questions:

-Does this statement really say anything at all?
-Does the official FBI report say anything at all (verbatim to Mos's release)?
- If the fabric was clearly a blue denim-like fabric (a skirt perhaps) why was the sample compared to Natalee's blouse?
- Did the FBI receive this blue fabric or another fabric?
- If it was another fabric, was it a fabric sampled from the trap?
- Why would the FBI make a statement as they did on the heels of the Dateline special?

The answers to these questions moves this case into three possible directions:
1) The case is currently under investigation and moving towards justice for Natalee. A lot of people will go to prison, but it may take months to complete the investigation from the beginning, including the coverup and investigation. judges...etc.
2) The case is currently being professionally covered up and the key evidence is shelved, or destroyed.
3) We have not yet found Natalee and what we found is someone else - but no interest is being demonstrated at finding out who it is.

In my opinion the chances of either above scenario are equally split three ways.


I wrote:

Kyle,

Can you give us names of Aruban officials present on the Jan 7th dive?

Can you also tell us - were Persistence divers wanting to dive on Jan 7th? Were they prevented from doing so by Aruban officials?

Were there any Aruban officials onboard the Persistence during the dive on Jan 7th? Or were they all on their own boat?

Has Aruba asked you for the ROV footage from that dive?

Kyle wrote:

I don't have the names of the Aruban divers from the Jan 7th dive, but we should have a record of it. I know two of them, but forget their names. John will know the third diver's name if necessary. I don't recall who all was there on the 7th. The Persistence had no divers on the 7th. Tim Trahan was our diver on the 30th-Dec, but he was out of the country at the time. The Aruban divers were on the police boat, dove from their boat, and returned to their boat.

I wrote:

Just from having followed criminal cases before- I would think that for prosecutorial value, Mos would have needed statements from the crew.

Mos had no way of knowing as of Dec 29, 30th or even by Jan 7th whether what you found was, or was not Natalee. For any evidence to be admissable in court - I would think very detailed statements from you all would be necessary. 

Also - if he were looking to bring down the whole corrupt "house of cards", he would need information from you all as to what you filmed of the recovery dive by his divers.....................I would think.


Kyle wrote:

I don't know how this should be handled.
- I think the underwater pictures taken by the divers of the samples from the trap would be very useful.
- We tried repeatedly for weeks unsecessfully to get an inventory from the FBI. Right before the Dateline special aired we got word (after pressure from C. Rice's office) from the FBI that they were testing the samples, and that HALF the samples were send to the NFI. This contradicted Richardson who said he sent everything to the FBI.

- It would be useful knowing exactly what the FBI tested.
- I send the FBI screen shots of the Jan 7th dive and blue fabric with a note asking if they can verify what was sampled versus the fabric pictured. I did not get a response. This was several weeks ago.

I wrote:

Kyle, I agree with each of the three scenarios being equally possible at this point in time.

I think the only way anyone could possibly know for sure - is if Beth were to contact the FBI and find out what, exactly, they received from Richardson.

One other way it could be possible - is to have John Kelly meet with Mos and go over the Aruban case file as it pertains to your find - pictures, officer reports, chain of custody logs, etc.

I think Mos telling Richardson in late January that he (Richardson) could no longer receive evidence/information is very telling............and might indicate that Mos does not trust Richardson - and that may have everything to do with what was recovered from your find.

That could indicate an intense investigation going on, which would include bringing down many of the corrupt officials as they can.

The only thing that makes me possibly discount that scenario - is that statements were not taken from you guys after Dec 29th.

To quote Tamikosmom, quoting Beth..."Greta this is huge!"   


Jen, Janet, and Kermit - Now I understand how/why you guys could see more truth in some of these comments than I could...

Wow.  This just gets more and more bizarre, imo.



dental records on real time match said...
The ROV real time remote satellite networking software has the military strength and powerful query database. The forensics labs staff in US and Holland are working together to analyse the ROV video feed streams. They can match the patterns of the crab cages with the part numbers stored in the database, and determine the origins of these crab cages, and how they had been sitting on the deep ocean floor. For certainty, Kyle and Tim will find Natalee, maybe Amy Bradley as well. Those two American women got vanished from the CnC lady drinks bar. Their dental records are on real time query to identify the remains.
December 29, 2007 12:07:00 PM EST
https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=19199597&postID=5767307859974282555&isPopup=true


bring natalee home directly said...
When both sides of the Dutch and US forensics experts come to agreement, the Persistence crew can bring the crab cage up from the ocean bottom. FBI will cerify and package the forensic evidences. The navy plane will carry Natalee's remains directly to Mountain Brooks, Alabama.
December 29, 2007 12:41:00 PM EST
https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=19199597&postID=5767307859974282555&isPopup=true

glenda said...
NFI and FBI divided up the crab trap cages for forensics identifications. If the DNA indicators show male positive, the associated cages go to NFI in Holland. The rest of the crab cages will be tested by FBI in Virginia. So far, over a hundred crab cages have been recovered by the Persistence after so many search trips. Aruba is very upset.
January 8, 2008 9:48:00 AM EST
http://arubanboycott.blogspot.com/2008/01/like-plague.html


The Dutch government is very angry with Aruba said...
KLPD strongly suspected ALE had helped the disposal of Natalee Holloway's body. Based on that tip, the Persistence is looking for the blue barrel in much deeper waters. ALE might have used their police helicoptor to commit that crime. Natalee's corpse was dismenbered and dumped twice during the nights to avoid suspicions and sightings. The crab cage had been found sometime ago in shallow waters. However, the Dutch forensics lab in Hague found cut marks on the bone and joint. The remains is incomplete and slaughtered. The Dutch government is very angry with Aruba.
January 17, 2008 4:55:00 AM EST
http://arubanboycott.blogspot.com/2008/01/today-on-oprah-beth-and-matt-holloway.html

[Tamikosmom]

In Kyle Kingman's email to Kermit ... the underlying threat of legal action is implied and ... understood perfectly.  However ... the threat is denied by Kyle in his email to Jug Twitty.

Janet

+++++++++

KYLE KINGMAN - JUG TWITTY

ldstlou
Re: The Cage « Reply #157 on: March 19, 2009, 12:25:09 pm »

The last posts are taken from the e-mail that Kyle sent to Jug and I in December

Kyle Kingman:  I didn't threaten any of them. I said that I personally didn't want to get sued for breaking a confidentiality agreement with information ending up on the Internet. Them pushing it all out put me at risk legally and jeopardized my relationship with John (which is now destroyed over this). Also, this information did not belong posted on the Internet in the first place. It was a huge naive misjudgement on my part to trust this group enough to share it in confidence.

http://goldmonkey.org/index.php?topic=980.msg12191#msg12191


KYLE KINGMAN - EMAIL TO KERMIT

Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #786 12/17/08 -
« Reply #540 on: December 19, 2008, 06:15:18 PM »

Kyle sent me this today[/b]

Kermit,
 
You and the others agreed to a statement of confidentiality and nondisclosure at FB.  Before I posted any information, I posted a copyright notice at the very start which disallowed ANY and ALL of my posts, intellectual property, or pictures to leave the spot they were posted.  Everyone, including yourself, acknowledged this affirmatively. A lawyer said that ownership of that posted material cannot be transferred by a general claim of copyright such as a claim made on the front page of a website, or even by verbal consent. Written agreement, meaning a signed agreement, is required for the post to be owned by the site owner. Without a signed agreement, the poster owns the post. I did not give you permission, which I have stated many times when you were in violation. While the rest agreed, you violated this legal agreement repeatedly.  You have taken many of my posts, snipped what you wanted to put them into your context, and then shared them in a public forum.  The "public domain" notion only applies where someone has copyright ownership over the work in the first case and that ownership has lapsed. In that case, all posts can be freely reproduced by anyone, anywhere, without violating copyright law. However, this is clearly not the case.

I will state this with absolute clarity so there is no misunderstanding:
I have confirmed with the FBI on multiple instances that they have had possession of the ROV videos since very early on. I personally didn't send the ROV footage to them because another project lead had already at the first opportunity while we were still in Aruba. I sent all of the ROV screen shots directly to the FBI the day they were acquired.

I also got confirmation back in February by Tim Trahan who was in constant contact with Beth during the search that she indeed had all the information including the statements and has seen the ROV videos. I personally confirmed all of this with the senior FBI agent in charge of the investigation as well as given him my personal account of all that I witnessed and knew. They have this on record.  Birmingham is not the office in charge.
 
The information you have been spreading is not only inaccurate and a violation of a non-disclosure, it is slanderous and spreading misinformation. The damage it has done to my professional relationship with J. Silvetti is incalculable which has a direct effect on my ability to provide for my family, which includes my daughter named after Natalee.
 
I have neither publicly responded to your provocative antics, or retaliated with personal attacks in response to yours. I also have never threatened you as you publicly claimed.
 
I recently asked the senior FBI agent in charge how I should handle this situation which you have incited.   I thought his response was terrific. He replied: "Just sit back and keep quiet.  Kermit doesn't matter".

So this is exactly what I've done. I wrote this letter to you as a gesture of courtesy in hopes it would save you from further embarrassment from those who actually know something about this case.  I'm not referring to myself, rather the family and lead investigators who are out legitimately investigating this case in pursuit of justice right to the top.
 
Sincerely,
 Kyle

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4246.msg592482;topicseen#msg592482

[Lifesong]

I could have sworn that got posted here before...............

But here it is (in context for the naysayers)  This was the day after Kyle joined our forum and shared his initial information with us.  This will also show some of the discussion about keeping this info (at that time) under wraps in case there was really an honest investigation ongoing about what was found.

I left out posts from other Freebirds who participated in this dialogue.

Note - the information of Kyle having sent screen shots to the FBI is what we later learned to have been a lie, and also note - that was Kyle's ONLY attempt (that we were told about) of having "sent this information to the FBI".

March 19, 2008

post from ME to Kyle:

I find it very curious that Mos and/or Richardson didn't take statements from everyone on board. (the Persistence)

kyle wrote:

Why?
If I were Mos I would have done the following:
- Once the Persistence finds the trap, convince them it's nothing significant
This would calm media pressure and keep the Persistence searching while the investigation continues. No statements needed because this lets the team know it was case significant and of elevated interest.
- While the search continues offshore unabated, process the trap site by a Dutch forensic team and continue getting the investigation buttoned up
- While the forensic results are being processed, keep the search going as a smoke screen. With the Persistence puppet in play, everyone involved is relatively calm knowing that as long as we're searching, nothing significant is found.
- Buy as much time as they can using the confession tape to encourage the Persistence to remain searching
- Dateline opens up a can of worms by showing the public (and the perps) the trap, but claims it was of no interest
- Put out a statement claiming no evidenciary value in the samples.
- Continue investigation without media pressure or public outcry.
- Once the investigation is complete, get all the authorities in play ready to arrest the whole lot simultaneously.
- Arrest everyone involved then announce the full results.

Kyle wrote:

After studying the images, go back to the press release from Hans Mos regarding the trap and ask yourself these questions:

-Does this statement really say anything at all?
-Does the official FBI report say anything at all (verbatim to Mos's release)?
- If the fabric was clearly a blue denim-like fabric (a skirt perhaps) why was the sample compared to Natalee's blouse?
- Did the FBI receive this blue fabric or another fabric?
- If it was another fabric, was it a fabric sampled from the trap?
- Why would the FBI make a statement as they did on the heels of the Dateline special?

The answers to these questions moves this case into three possible directions:
1) The case is currently under investigation and moving towards justice for Natalee. A lot of people will go to prison, but it may take months to complete the investigation from the beginning, including the coverup and investigation. judges...etc.
2) The case is currently being professionally covered up and the key evidence is shelved, or destroyed.
3) We have not yet found Natalee and what we found is someone else - but no interest is being demonstrated at finding out who it is.

In my opinion the chances of either above scenario are equally split three ways.


I wrote:

Kyle,

Can you give us names of Aruban officials present on the Jan 7th dive?

Can you also tell us - were Persistence divers wanting to dive on Jan 7th? Were they prevented from doing so by Aruban officials?

Were there any Aruban officials onboard the Persistence during the dive on Jan 7th? Or were they all on their own boat?

Has Aruba asked you for the ROV footage from that dive?

Kyle wrote:

I don't have the names of the Aruban divers from the Jan 7th dive, but we should have a record of it. I know two of them, but forget their names. John will know the third diver's name if necessary. I don't recall who all was there on the 7th. The Persistence had no divers on the 7th. Tim Trahan was our diver on the 30th-Dec, but he was out of the country at the time. The Aruban divers were on the police boat, dove from their boat, and returned to their boat.

I wrote:

Just from having followed criminal cases before- I would think that for prosecutorial value, Mos would have needed statements from the crew.

Mos had no way of knowing as of Dec 29, 30th or even by Jan 7th whether what you found was, or was not Natalee. For any evidence to be admissable in court - I would think very detailed statements from you all would be necessary. 

Also - if he were looking to bring down the whole corrupt "house of cards", he would need information from you all as to what you filmed of the recovery dive by his divers.....................I would think.


Kyle wrote:

I don't know how this should be handled.
- I think the underwater pictures taken by the divers of the samples from the trap would be very useful.
- We tried repeatedly for weeks unsecessfully to get an inventory from the FBI. Right before the Dateline special aired we got word (after pressure from C. Rice's office) from the FBI that they were testing the samples, and that HALF the samples were send to the NFI. This contradicted Richardson who said he sent everything to the FBI.

- It would be useful knowing exactly what the FBI tested.
- I send the FBI screen shots of the Jan 7th dive and blue fabric with a note asking if they can verify what was sampled versus the fabric pictured. I did not get a response. This was several weeks ago.

I wrote:

Kyle, I agree with each of the three scenarios being equally possible at this point in time.

I think the only way anyone could possibly know for sure - is if Beth were to contact the FBI and find out what, exactly, they received from Richardson.

One other way it could be possible - is to have John Kelly meet with Mos and go over the Aruban case file as it pertains to your find - pictures, officer reports, chain of custody logs, etc.

I think Mos telling Richardson in late January that he (Richardson) could no longer receive evidence/information is very telling............and might indicate that Mos does not trust Richardson - and that may have everything to do with what was recovered from your find.

That could indicate an intense investigation going on, which would include bringing down many of the corrupt officials as they can.

The only thing that makes me possibly discount that scenario - is that statements were not taken from you guys after Dec 29th.

That's a little newsmaker there too!

[hotping]

Seems like if they know what we call ole Joe, they'd know what we call Julia too.   

HO HO HO! RenHO!   

[Blue Moon]

Now Dan & Kelly are posting at the Lifetime discussion!   

http://community.mylifetime.com/community/lmn/discussions/talk-about-natalee-holloway

I just looked for LMN on our cable and I don't get it.   

[hotping]

I could have sworn that got posted here before...............

But here it is (in context for the naysayers)  This was the day after Kyle joined our forum and shared his initial information with us.  This will also show some of the discussion about keeping this info (at that time) under wraps in case there was really an honest investigation ongoing about what was found.

I left out posts from other Freebirds who participated in this dialogue.

Note - the information of Kyle having sent screen shots to the FBI is what we later learned to have been a lie, and also note - that was Kyle's ONLY attempt (that we were told about) of having "sent this information to the FBI".

March 19, 2008

post from ME to Kyle:

I find it very curious that Mos and/or Richardson didn't take statements from everyone on board. (the Persistence)

kyle wrote:

Why?
If I were Mos I would have done the following:
- Once the Persistence finds the trap, convince them it's nothing significant
This would calm media pressure and keep the Persistence searching while the investigation continues. No statements needed because this lets the team know it was case significant and of elevated interest.
- While the search continues offshore unabated, process the trap site by a Dutch forensic team and continue getting the investigation buttoned up
- While the forensic results are being processed, keep the search going as a smoke screen. With the Persistence puppet in play, everyone involved is relatively calm knowing that as long as we're searching, nothing significant is found.
- Buy as much time as they can using the confession tape to encourage the Persistence to remain searching
- Dateline opens up a can of worms by showing the public (and the perps) the trap, but claims it was of no interest
- Put out a statement claiming no evidenciary value in the samples.
- Continue investigation without media pressure or public outcry.
- Once the investigation is complete, get all the authorities in play ready to arrest the whole lot simultaneously.
- Arrest everyone involved then announce the full results.

Kyle wrote:

After studying the images, go back to the press release from Hans Mos regarding the trap and ask yourself these questions:

-Does this statement really say anything at all?
-Does the official FBI report say anything at all (verbatim to Mos's release)?
- If the fabric was clearly a blue denim-like fabric (a skirt perhaps) why was the sample compared to Natalee's blouse?
- Did the FBI receive this blue fabric or another fabric?
- If it was another fabric, was it a fabric sampled from the trap?
- Why would the FBI make a statement as they did on the heels of the Dateline special?

The answers to these questions moves this case into three possible directions:
1) The case is currently under investigation and moving towards justice for Natalee. A lot of people will go to prison, but it may take months to complete the investigation from the beginning, including the coverup and investigation. judges...etc.
2) The case is currently being professionally covered up and the key evidence is shelved, or destroyed.
3) We have not yet found Natalee and what we found is someone else - but no interest is being demonstrated at finding out who it is.

In my opinion the chances of either above scenario are equally split three ways.


I wrote:

Kyle,

Can you give us names of Aruban officials present on the Jan 7th dive?

Can you also tell us - were Persistence divers wanting to dive on Jan 7th? Were they prevented from doing so by Aruban officials?

Were there any Aruban officials onboard the Persistence during the dive on Jan 7th? Or were they all on their own boat?

Has Aruba asked you for the ROV footage from that dive?

Kyle wrote:

I don't have the names of the Aruban divers from the Jan 7th dive, but we should have a record of it. I know two of them, but forget their names. John will know the third diver's name if necessary. I don't recall who all was there on the 7th. The Persistence had no divers on the 7th. Tim Trahan was our diver on the 30th-Dec, but he was out of the country at the time. The Aruban divers were on the police boat, dove from their boat, and returned to their boat.

I wrote:

Just from having followed criminal cases before- I would think that for prosecutorial value, Mos would have needed statements from the crew.

Mos had no way of knowing as of Dec 29, 30th or even by Jan 7th whether what you found was, or was not Natalee. For any evidence to be admissable in court - I would think very detailed statements from you all would be necessary. 

Also - if he were looking to bring down the whole corrupt "house of cards", he would need information from you all as to what you filmed of the recovery dive by his divers.....................I would think.


Kyle wrote:

I don't know how this should be handled.
- I think the underwater pictures taken by the divers of the samples from the trap would be very useful.
- We tried repeatedly for weeks unsecessfully to get an inventory from the FBI. Right before the Dateline special aired we got word (after pressure from C. Rice's office) from the FBI that they were testing the samples, and that HALF the samples were send to the NFI. This contradicted Richardson who said he sent everything to the FBI.

- It would be useful knowing exactly what the FBI tested.
- I send the FBI screen shots of the Jan 7th dive and blue fabric with a note asking if they can verify what was sampled versus the fabric pictured. I did not get a response. This was several weeks ago.

I wrote:

Kyle, I agree with each of the three scenarios being equally possible at this point in time.

I think the only way anyone could possibly know for sure - is if Beth were to contact the FBI and find out what, exactly, they received from Richardson.

One other way it could be possible - is to have John Kelly meet with Mos and go over the Aruban case file as it pertains to your find - pictures, officer reports, chain of custody logs, etc.

I think Mos telling Richardson in late January that he (Richardson) could no longer receive evidence/information is very telling............and might indicate that Mos does not trust Richardson - and that may have everything to do with what was recovered from your find.

That could indicate an intense investigation going on, which would include bringing down many of the corrupt officials as they can.

The only thing that makes me possibly discount that scenario - is that statements were not taken from you guys after Dec 29th.

That's a little newsmaker there too!

 

[hotping]

Now Dan & Kelly are posting at the Lifetime discussion!   

http://community.mylifetime.com/community/lmn/discussions/talk-about-natalee-holloway

I just looked for LMN on our cable and I don't get it.   

Call Your Cable Company up and ask Them if You can get it....then after the movie You could always cancel it....or switch to Dish Network....

[Tamikosmom]

Now Dan & Kelly are posting at the Lifetime discussion!   

http://community.mylifetime.com/community/lmn/discussions/talk-about-natalee-holloway

The Aruban Justice Minister ... gave credit to the vile accusations spewed forth by the two psychics against the mother and stepfather of Natalee Holloway when it was implied that Young and Castillo's accusations should be investigated.

Janet

+++++++++++++


REMINDER:

Amigoe
January 17, 2008
Natalee abused by stepfather Jug

This time, the local media has paid plenty of attention to the story of Dan Young and Kelly Castillo.

ORANJESTAD — Minister Rudy Croes (MEP) of Justice is of the opinion that the findings of the two American investigators Daniel Young and Kelly Castillo in the disappearance case of Natalee Holloway, must be seriously considered. The two assert that Natalee’s stepfather Jug Twitty has abused and impregnated her and that her mother Beth knew about it. The two also say that Natalee had died from an overdose two weeks after the night on the beach with Joran van der Sloot when she disappeared. “Joran is innocent”, said the investigators.

<snipped>

Croes is of the opinion that now that the case against the suspects Joran and the brothers Deepak and Satish Kalpoe has brought no results, the Public Prosecution must also consider other scenarios. Castillo and Young’s findings must therefore be seriously investigated, said the minister. “After Beth has been in Oprah’s program, it will be good to tell the other side of the story.” Oprah Winfrey has spent some time on the Holiday-matter in her show yesterday.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2527.msg329756#msg329756

http://www.amigoe.com/artman/publish/artikel_38773.php


Jossy Mansur
EMAIL
January 18, 2008

I am aware of the two "spiritualists" trying to get some publicity. As far as we can tell, they seem to be men who claim to have contacts with the dead, and who hold dialogues with the nether regions. None of the stories they put out measure up to the truth, and their assessments of Natalee and Beth is way off course and totally false.

They were brought to Aruba by a member of this government, and we all know what that means! As far as we are concerned. it's just an act put on by two "spiritualists" that claim to belong to "the Guiding Light", whatever that is or means.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2527.msg329921#msg329921


Kelly Castillo and Daniel Young
Bon Dia Aruba
April 10, 2006

"There is also a tape of Natalee and a guy named Michael at the Windam Hotel buying a necklace and having an argument day's, maybe weeks, after she had allegedly gone missing. All the while the country is spending money searching for her. The guy named Michael on the video tape, was a bouncer and Carlos and Charlies. He was tortured, murdered, and his body burnt the week of April 3rd while we were in Aruba. That story did not come to America either. We also know that Natalee called Beth about fifteen day's after her being "missing" from Michael's cell phone telling Beth again to go home, and that Natalee was not going with her."

http://www.scrux.com/discuss/viewtopic.php?t=386


Dan Young insists:
Jug Twitty is the father of the baby that Natalee was carrying
DIARIO Aruba
01/17/2008

ORANJESTAD(AAN): A press conference took place Wednesday morning related to the disappearance of Natalee Holloway. The press conference was given by two Americans, Dan Young and Kelly Castillo, who work in the spiritual world [mediums].

During an encounter of the press with the two people who work in the spiritual world, which surrounded the disappearance of Natalee Holloway, the press asked Dan Young and Kelly Castillo what really happened to the American youngster.

According to Young, the week of her disappearance, Natalee worked out a plan because she knew that her mom and dad were coming to Aruba.

Young continued to say that at a certain time in 2006, they brought police to a place without using a map. When police observed something remarkable, their mouths dropped and one of the police agents D.J. said that he would send agents with special dogs early the following morning, but this never happened.

Young also said that he has the names of various people who were with Natalee and the names of the different streets where she was.

He said that Natalee suffered an overdose in the hands of other people who are not Joran, Satish or Deepak.

According to Young, if this was not true, he would not know all the names and details.

Young explained that he understands everything about this case, because when he was younger, he also ran away from home.

According to Young, it’s true that Joran left Natalee at the beach, but afterwards other people came across Natalee and befriended her. They helped her hide in the San Nicolas area.

According to Young, it is practically impossible to think that a 17 year old boy such as Joran could be so good to cause an international mystery, after which he passed his exams easily.

Young said that when by coincidence he met Paul and Anita van der Sloot, he put his hand on Paul’s chest and said: “I know that your son didn’t do anything” and Paul and Anita started to cry.

Press asks Young of how Beth lied.

According to Young, she lied to hide what really was happening in their family back home. It was not the first time Natalee ran away from home [according to Young].

Joran himself said that Natalee said that her mom was like “Hitler”.

Young asked himself of how no one interrogated adequately the kids who were with Natalee in Aruba, nor the pilot of the private jet that brought Beth to Aruba.

Beth wants to put the attention on Joran and on an island that supposedly didn’t do enough, to distract the attention from herself and the situation in her home.

Beth believed that Anita and Paul van der Sloot at first also were helping to hide Natalee. Young continued to say that there’s a female person of high position who is no longer in Aruba who has much more information on this matter.

She is in the U.S. and knew for sure that Natalee was alive. This case became a big “cover up”.

Young also said that Beth and Jug were very afraid of the truth coming out. Young dared Jug and Beth to prove him wrong.

According to Young, he is willing to put his reputation and career on the like. Young said that Beth and especially Jug are in fear that the truth comes out because he [Jug] is the father of the baby that Natalee was carrying.

DIARIO asked Young the names of any of the people who knew the truth of Natalee’s disappearance and he mentioned Marian Ann Smith and someone name Minard.

Young also showed to the press the immigration document that clearly showed that Beth arrived in Aruba at 7:45 at night and not 11:00 as Beth has said.

DIARIO asked Young and Castillo some of the names of the local people who know about this case and Young said that one of them is locked up in KIA and that he spoke with Dolphi Richardson about this and also other authorities.

DIARIO asked Young how he believed that those who were with Natalee did not come forward with her to claim the reward money.

Young explained that because people had seen what happened to Joran, Deepak and Satish and the fact that the young woman died of an overdose at a certain point, was sufficient reason for them not to come forward.

Despite everything that was brought up by Young and Castillo, DIARIO’s point of view remains unchanged, which is that Joran, Satish and Deepak are those who really know what happened to Natalee Holloway.

[translated by Getagrip]

Posted by Getagrip

http://getagripmonkey.blogspot.com/2008/01/dan-young-insists-jug-twitty-is-father.html

[Lifesong]

Now Dan & Kelly are posting at the Lifetime discussion!   

http://community.mylifetime.com/community/lmn/discussions/talk-about-natalee-holloway

I just looked for LMN on our cable and I don't get it.   

Call Your Cable Company up and ask Them if You can get it....then after the movie You could always cancel it....or switch to Dish Network....

You all were making me nervous, I'd just assumed...  just checked though and luckily I do have LMN. 


I also checked this DVD player and it does have a record button...