Sandra Cantu #2 4/09/09 - 4/15/09

[O4Bull]

Excellent post JessStar and welcome! 

Yes the big question and the key to all of this is why would she drug a child if indeed she did.  Also, how is it possible there is nobody else involved.  Why would Fred Williams say the luggage was stolen from inside her car and that it had items for a rummage sale?

I don't necessarily disagree.  But I'm not sure the "big question" is the key to winning a conviction. (FWIW, I think Monster Woman confessed.  So the questions of motive or guilt or innocence will likely be neither here nor there, unless they are needed for a capital conviction.  The only triable issue in the case is going to be whether she is criminally insane, because she's going to attempt an insanity defense, which will certainly fail.  Her actions after the event prove that.  Stupid, yes.  Criminally insane, no). 

Anyway, the "big question" of "why" goes to motive, which is not an element of the crime of murder (unless California law is somehow different than where I am--but I doubt it).  She killed this little girl by intentionally or with reckless indifference inducing her with a substance that had the likelihood of inflicting severe bodily harm or causing death.  Case closed.

My answer to Williams?  Because Williams is part of the bigger picture, not the Sandra murder.  You'll be hearing more about him, I bet. (BTW, anyone know what Williams does for a living to be able to afford a $1/2 million, 4000 sq ft home and that nice boat?)  After the crime had been committed (meaning after Sandra had already expired), and PERHAPS after the body had been taken care of, Monster Woman had to alert the others in her "church" of what had happened.  Fred Williams is one of the others. All of these guys fit the "disorganized" profile that I think we all can agree fits this case.  This was in no way an organized event.  They probably conspired together to make up a story that the luggage had been stolen.  Too bad they didn't think far enough to get their story straight as to what was in it.

This is, of course, all theory.  Feel free to poke holes in it!

Hi,
first, WELCOME to the cage...
I get a feeling from your posts that you're a no nonsense kind of monkey, I like that.  You said to poke holes, but I really have some of the same feelings you do.  I do want to ask if you know for certain where Fred lives?  They're saying over yonder that he lives in the MHP.

Thanks 04Bull!  I appreciate the welcome.  Let me try to hunt down the article I saw on that.  I'll let you know.  As for the "no nonsense" part, I hope that's not a bad thing here.  I'm not trying to profess the truth, I'm just really stating my opinion.  I don't want to turn anyone off.  But I work in a no nonsense profession where part of my job is sifting through evidence to separate the material from the immaterial and writing about it in a persuasive way.  And I suppose it's just rubbing off. . . 

I love the no nonsense, and as long as it's tempered with humility and tolerance of differing opinions you'll fit in wonderfully!    I say that because I struggle with that myself as I'm bullheaded and try to remind myself daily that we are all wired differently. 

I almost asked what your profession is, as I had you pegged as someone who is very methodical, working with mostly facts, and trying to leave emotion out of it. Mr./Mrs. Logic (and it's all good...)

[JessStar]

This kinda just popped into my head.  We can't even begin to know everything the investigators know. We won't know until trial time when LE knew what it knew.  But there is one thing that sticks in my mind that suggests the "focus" was narrowed some time ago.  Recall during one of the first press conferences, one of the reporters asked if the video that shows Sandra skipping down the road had been edited.  His reply was yes, it had been edited.  That there were hours before and hours after the little 19 second clip.  And then he gratuitously offered this little tidbit (not an exact quote, but I'll use quotes for the effect!) "There are cameras all along that road that captured every vehicle that drove up or down that road that day.  But the clip is the only thing we'll be releasing."

[pink angel]

Excellent post JessStar and welcome! 

Yes the big question and the key to all of this is why would she drug a child if indeed she did.  Also, how is it possible there is nobody else involved.  Why would Fred Williams say the luggage was stolen from inside her car and that it had items for a rummage sale?

I don't know either, but Melissa told different stories to the police and then to the newspaper. Maybe she told this Fred different lies also. But I still want them to look at Fred real good.
Surely to God when the police first spoke to Melissa they looked at her criminal history, even tho it was petty, there were some mental sissues there. And it was one of the last places Sandra was or was going to. So this bunch , Melissa and her Grandparents were q'd early on.
It wasn't the police investigation that solved this, it was the reporters story of what SHE reported after she spoke to Melissa on the phone. They had the reporter on a CNN by phone interview.     

agree with you there, KatGram.  It almost came across like the media was doing LE's work.  How many times was it reported that LE didn't know things that were being reported by the media.  Either LE was playing dumb, or they really are incompetent.  I am disturbed about the kissing incident and the drugging incident if indeed it's true going unpunished.  Not a good time to say this and I'm going to get slammed for it most likely, but who was supervising little Sandra?

With the way the web/media has become news 24/7, all LE departments should have a person/persons to monitor news reports/crime forums in any missing person or high profile cases. To make sure interviews that are given, match up with what they have been told. To follow up with any people that have given interviews or made statements that they were not aware of.....etc.

jmo

[flossy]

I do not believe for a single second that Huckabeeotch is the only one who will be arrested.  No way, no how.  That's just what they want someone to think.  I think it has to do with the fact that they want the other P's of S to have a false feeling of relief.

If more arrests aren't made in the future, I'd say there needs to be an investigation into the investigation.  We'd better AT LEAST hear of something being done about the 60 sick SOBs who are in possession of child pornography.

I hope that after some time passes, someone will be able to clarify whether or not the child drugged before was Sandra and whether or not anything was done about that old freak kissing her on the mouth.

[AZSunny]

I do not believe for a single second that Huckabeeotch is the only one who will be arrested.  No way, no how.  That's just what they want someone to think.  I think it has to do with the fact that they want the other P's of S to have a false feeling of relief.

If more arrests aren't made in the future, I'd say there needs to be an investigation into the investigation.  We'd better AT LEAST hear of something being done about the 60 sick SOBs who are in possession of child pornography.

I hope that after some time passes, someone will be able to clarify whether or not the child drugged before was Sandra and whether or not anything was done about that old freak kissing her on the mouth.

He made it quite clear that a motive had not been determined.  Maybe once they determine that piece, they will be looking around for others.  Flossy, your 'udder' swinging just cracks me up. 

[JessStar]

I love the no nonsense, and as long as it's tempered with humility and tolerance of differing opinions you'll fit in wonderfully!    I say that because I struggle with that myself as I'm bullheaded and try to remind myself daily that we are all wired differently. 

I almost asked what your profession is, as I had you pegged as someone who is very methodical, working with mostly facts, and trying to leave emotion out of it. Mr./Mrs. Logic (and it's all good...)
[/quote]

To be honest with you, I struggle VERY VERY VERY hard to leave my emotions out of this case.  This case struck a nerve with me and a permanent place in my heart.  After living this case since it first caught my attention, and after thinking about how the "why" question is typically answered in cases like this, it's therapeutic for me to write what I believe happened. But I have to admit, in my heart, I refuse to accept that anything more sinister happened to this little girl.  (Ok, that's my emotional side. FWIW, I've also cried many times over the last few days, so hearing what I heard this morning kinda came as a sigh of relief for me;  not that it diminishes to any extent the depravity of the crime, but because if the evidence shows what I think it will eventually show, this little girl simply fell asleep and did not suffer).

I'm new here, so I don't know if venting or "therapeutic" talk is welcomed.  Just let me know if it isn't and I'll "cool my jets!"  I am ALWAYS tolerant of others opinions and love a lively debate, a vetting of facts, and building complex puzzles like this.  Please, I don't ever want anyone to think I think I know all the answers.  I certainly don't.  I want people to challenge my thoughts.  That's how you eventually get to the truth.

[Tamikosmom]

::monkey wide eyes::

Over yonder a person who is a poster claims to have gotten a call yesterday from a friend who's Tracy MIL works with someone who lives in the park and he said Sandra was the child months ago, that MH was questioned about drugging.

She was found behind a building and rushed to the hospital and it was found to be a drug overdose.


Take that for the telephone tag game that it is. It could be true being what we know now and why they were looking at her early in the game.

I had to walk away and go shopping, more confused now, then before. OMG, if this is the case, that Sandra was the one drugged, what is going on here?  Did LE not know this, what about Sandra's mom telling LE about this? There is just nothing to say if this is true. 

I walked away and did some Easter Bunny shopping.  Dinner at daughter's home on Easter Monday.  This year grown kids and grandkids all go to the inlaws on Easter Sunday.  I hate sharing.

 

Anyways ... I have come to the conclusion that Tracy LE is either incompetent or corrupt.

IMO

Janet

[flossy]

Tracygirl....Is this Police Chief fairly new or has she been the chief for a while?

The reason I am wondering is because if these other offenses (Sandra getting kissed by that pervert who still has contact w/children and MH supposedly drugging another 7 yr old) were 'taken so lightly'..then impeachment proceedings might be in order there.  However, if she is fairly new....maybe you have some 'hope' of getting that area cleaned up.

Thank you for your imput...most enlightening.  Prayers for you and yours.

She is a new police chief. I honestly do not know why the last one left. Many are hoping this one can help to straigthen out the problems they seem to have.

I do not believe it is corruption but rather a lack of experience in how to deal with high profile crimes or crimes which are serious in a criminal nature. Do you know for months our banks  were getting robbed, one right after another, why? Tracy is known for not being able to solve serious crimes. 
It is like they have the attitude, well that can't happen here, or it can't be that big of a deal, this is tracy, things like this happen in the bay area.
If you read some of the comments on the Tracy press sight you will see this attitude in many of the citizens. We have had now 2 very serious crimes against children in this city which seem to be connected to a child porn influence. it can't end here. I keep saying that don't I? 

Is this new police chief a mom?  I'm beginning to think that if after some time there does not appear to be some serious trash clean-up, it may be time for a group or groups of moms and other concerned citizens to raise some hell and push for some drastic action.  I'm in California and would have no problem driving up to Tracy. 

Who knows, maybe they were slowly gathering evidence even before this happened.  I wish we knew.  I hope this will fuel the fire.

[Tamikosmom]

Hi,
first, WELCOME to the cage...
I get a feeling from your posts that you're a no nonsense kind of monkey, I like that.  You said to poke holes, but I really have some of the same feelings you do.  I do want to ask if you know for certain where Fred lives?  They're saying over yonder that he lives in the MHP.

This is all I could find in regards to Fred Williams' home.

Janet

+++++


Sandra Cantu Murder: Melissa Huckaby Arrested
Saturday 11 April 2009 9:09 am

<snipped>

I will go out on a limb on this one and interpret that response for my readers, albeit subjectively, I admit.  You have a woman with a history of drug abuse, a juvenile record and current theft charges, who has been investigated for narcotics being found in a small girl, who was taken to a “park” in the evening for several hours . You have a town that is currently investigating 60 Sex Offenders, convicted of various assaults on children, and two recent high profile arrests of men within the school district accused of similar atrocities, awaiting trial. You have an 8 year old child abducted and murdered and I believe her pathology report will show drugs in her system. You have Fred Williams, a church member/caretaker with access to the church and shed who lies about a rummage sale, is seen on video dropping off the “letter to Sandra’s killer” at the memorial site , and lives in a 4,000 sq Ft. home worth over half a mill with extensive rap sheets for him and the Mrs. hanging on the fridge. Was that note to Mel to the Issa to keep quiet?

So.. the question becomes.. Why would she be drugged, for what purpose? I feel strongly this is the tip of the iceberg within Orchard Estates and the Clover Baptist Church.  On the comments section of my site, you will note their is a poster who claims Christian Sinclair and Huckaby are “dating.” You will also note that I received some comments from a person claiming to be Sinclair’s child. I checked them out, she is.  She posted that the Isuzu Trooper impounded by the FBI had been returned last week. She was correct, but what has not yet been, is his Cadillac, pictured here next to Huckaby’s KIA in the FBI Forensic Bay:

http://blinkoncrime.com/2009/04/11/sandra-cantu-murder-melissa-huckaby-arrested/

[flossy]

I do not believe for a single second that Huckabeeotch is the only one who will be arrested.  No way, no how.  That's just what they want someone to think.  I think it has to do with the fact that they want the other P's of S to have a false feeling of relief.

If more arrests aren't made in the future, I'd say there needs to be an investigation into the investigation.  We'd better AT LEAST hear of something being done about the 60 sick SOBs who are in possession of child pornography.

I hope that after some time passes, someone will be able to clarify whether or not the child drugged before was Sandra and whether or not anything was done about that old freak kissing her on the mouth.

He made it quite clear that a motive had not been determined.  Maybe once they determine that piece, they will be looking around for others.  Flossy, your 'udder' swinging just cracks me up. 

It cracks me up, too!  CBB is the comedian responsible for my risque outfits!!

[flossy]

Shoot, I meant to comment on another part of your post, AZS! 

I'm such a skeptic, I don't even buy that they don't have the motive established.  I think that they do.   They just sound too sure of the fact that she was killed almost immediately after she was skipping down the street.

Maybe it's wishful thinking, but I feel they know LOTS and are keeping it on the down-low.

[flossy]

Welcome, JessStar and Tams!

Did I miss any new Monkeys?  I'm not good at speed reading and have so much to catch up on after running my Easter Bunny errands.

So glad to have so many new Monkeys and new perspectives!

Tracygirl, I also want to thank you for the info you've provided.  You've been great and we're glad to have you here.

[klaasend]

Tracy Police Discuss Arrest In Cantu Case

http://www.kcra.com/video/19156628/index.html

Edited to add, this was from this morning.  I missed it this morning so watching now.

[Tamikosmom]

Sheneman said:

1.  There is NO reason to believe Sandra Cantu's body is in that luggage (4/6/09)
2.  I don't know where the rumors are coming from, there is no arrest immenant (4/10/09pm) Melissa arrested a few hours late.
3.  Melissa Huckaby is arrested for the kidnapping and murder of Sandra - she acted alone - no other arrests coming. (4/11/09)


I like Sheneman but sometimes he doesn't tell us what is really going on, likely due to the ongoing investigation.  I will be really surprised if this doesn't involve other people.

Sheneman appeared to be giving both Melissa and Clover Road Baptist Church credibility when he stated at least three times that Melissa was a Sunday School teacher.

Klaas ... we will have to agree to disagree ... I DO NOT like Sheneman.  I contend his press conferences only reveal a watered-down version of what has already been released to the media and ... nothing new.

Janet

Hiya Miss Janet,

Nice to see you and ducky!


I like the Sgt.
I think he has a hard job and doing the best he can do under the circumstances.
He's torn between protecting the investigation so Sandra Cantu and her family can get justice once this goes to trial and giving the community answers that they desperately want and deserve.

He's a member of that community, his children goes to Sandra's and her sister's school. He feels their pain and he is trying to do his best to answer what questions he can.

jmo


hugs to you and ducky

Hi pink angel

Considering the allegations that his position dictates he is privy to ... I can bet that Sheneman kids were never have been placed in Melissa Huckaby's Sunday School class or ... Frank Wohler's Karate class.  However ... there are unsuspecting parents out there who are entrusting their precious children to these two pedators.  Children are being put at risk.

If only Sandra Cantu's mother had been made aware that Melissa Huckaby had been questioned in a drugging incident that involved a child.  If only ...

 

Something is not right in Tracy.

Janet

I totally agree with you Janet. It's scary.

The police can't go announcing to the public everyone they question or suspect of crimes. That pesky constitution can be a pain.

The police did investigate the kissing incident. They must have decided not to charge him for whatever reason.(I would have!)
If I was Sandra's parents, I sure would have let every parent in that park know about it, regardless.

They investigated the child being drugged and just because Melissa was questioned, doesn't mean she was guilty. (although I am sure she was) Why she wasn't charged? I don't know.

The police did not investigate the kissing incident unless asking the guy why he did it is an investigation. It ended there, after all he is a business man in our communtiy and he was just being nice.

Hi Tracy

A Karate instructor is entrusted with children on a daily basis.  The "incident" should have dictated that another profession was where it was at for Frank Wohler ... a profession where he did not come in contact with children.

When Wohler kissed a six year old Sandra on the lips in a public swimming pool ... he made a bad choice and ... there are consequences for bad choices.  Those consequences are established to protect our children.

Why were they consequences no enforced?

Janet

++++++

Police Eye Oakdale Property in Search for Sandra
FOX40 News
April 2, 2009

On Thursday, April 1st, police expanded their search to the Tracy landfill as well as a home in Oakdale.  Authorities tell us the home belongs to a relative of Chris Sinclair, a resident of the Orchard Estates Mobile Home Park who has been identified as a person of interest in the case.  FOX40 spoke with Sinclair, who says he's not sure why he's under investigation.  Sinclair said he returned home earlier this week, and both of his cars were gone.  He says police asked if he knew anything about Sandra's disappearance.  Martial arts instructor, Frank Wohler, is another person of interest who has  been questioned by police.  He lives a few houses down from Sandra and peaked the interest of investigators when they learned he kissed Sanda on the lips at the community pool two years ago.  Wohler says he was just being friendly and nice.  "It's kinda my nature and I haven't talked to her since.  I've seen her in the park, but that's it," Wohler said.

http://www.fox40.com/pages/landing_local_headlines/?Police-Eye-Oakdale-Property-in-Search-fo=1&blockID=256041&feedID=190

[no rose colored glasses]

Fred Williams and his wife does not live in the mobile park, he has a very nice home, in Tracy.

[AZSunny]

Fred Williams and his wife does not live in the mobile park, he has a very nice home, in Tracy.

And do we know what he does for a living besides 'caretaker' of the church?   How does that afford a speculated half million dollar home?

[klaasend]

Fred Williams and his wife does not live in the mobile park, he has a very nice home, in Tracy.

Fred Williams is high on my list of accomplices (no matter what LE is currently saying)

Next would be and not necessarily in this order

Sinclair
Slayter
Wohler

[flossy]

Fred Williams and his wife does not live in the mobile park, he has a very nice home, in Tracy.

Fred Williams is high on my list of accomplices (no matter what LE is currently saying)

Next would be and not necessarily in this order

Sinclair
Slayter
Wohler

Our lists are identical, Klaas!  I wonder how many names will be crossed off in the days to come.  Hoping and praying that anyone and everyone having ANYTHING to do with harming children there are brought to justice.

[Tamikosmom]

Fred Williams and his wife does not live in the mobile park, he has a very nice home, in Tracy.

Fred Williams is high on my list of accomplices (no matter what LE is currently saying)

Next would be and not necessarily in this order

Sinclair
Slayter
Wohler

I have not given Pastor Lawless and his wife a free pass.

Janet

[Heart]

Huckaby's Family Speaks On Arrest In Cantu Case

Granduncle Of Accused Is Pastor At Salinas Church

POSTED: 5:24 pm PDT April 11, 2009
UPDATED: 5:57 pm PDT April 11, 2009


SALINAS, Calif. -- News of Melissa Huckaby in jail, booked on suspicion of the kidnapping and murder of 8-year old Sandra Cantu, has hit her family hard, in particular, her father.

Pastor Dewayne Harris is Huckaby's granduncle and a pastor at the Alisal Baptist Church in Salinas.

"He's OK. He's taking it hard of course," Harris said. "What do you do? Your 28-year-old daughter she winds up arrested."

He described her as a sweet girl, though quiet -- a big contrast to the picture painted by Huckaby's mug shot and the video of her being taken away by Tracy police early Saturday morning.

"I'm not relieved that it's a member of my family that's been arrested, but I am relieved that maybe they're getting close to closing the case," Harris said.

Huckaby taught kids at the local Sunday school. Harris said it was not very surprising because his grandniece loves kids.

"My thought on it is if she did have something to do with this, to me it must have been an accident and she panicked," Harris said.

Harris said even with his grandniece's arrest, the attention should remain positive and focus on the family of Sandra Cantu.

"It's tragic to our family, but it pales in comparison to what the Cantu family is suffering. They need some hope," Harris said.

Harris said he hopes his family will be able to move forward. They headed home to Tracy from Salinas Saturday which also meant driving into the chaos that has swept their community.

"That's what they're stressed over now, getting home back into the mobile home community, getting to church property tomorrow," Harris said.

But they said they will have their Easter Sunday service no matter where they have to hold it.

http://www.ksbw.com/news/19157916/detail.html