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Author Topic: Texas lawmaker: Asians should change their names to make them ‘easier'  (Read 2541 times)
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oldiebutgoodie
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« on: April 11, 2009, 12:45:05 PM »

Texas lawmaker: Asians should change their names to make them ‘easier for Americans to deal with.’

On Tuesday, State Rep. Betty Brown (R) caused a firestorm during House testimony on voter identification legislation when she said that Asian-Americans should change their names because they’re too hard to pronounce:

“Rather than everyone here having to learn Chinese — I understand it’s a rather difficult language — do you think that it would behoove you and your citizens to adopt a name that we could deal with more readily here?” Brown said.

Brown later told [Organization of Chinese Americans representative Ramey] Ko: “Can’t you see that this is something that would make it a lot easier for you and the people who are poll workers if you could adopt a name just for identification purposes that’s easier for Americans to deal with?”

Yesterday, Brown continued to resist calls to apologize. Her spokesman said that Democrats “want this to just be about race.”

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oldiebutgoodie
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« Reply #1 on: April 11, 2009, 12:56:21 PM »

Some of the comments posted on this article:

"I suppose that she thinks that they should all get plastic surgery so that they look more like us…"

"LOL I know plenty of European names that give people problems. Just ask any Scandanavian, or Polish person."

"Also, can you just forget your heritage and country’s history? While we’re at it, just go ahead and erase your entire culture and identity, it will be much easier for you."

"*sigh*  Another example of ‘fixing’ a group of people just to make it easier for an ignorant few…."

"Tell that to Zbigniew Brzezinski."

"There’s dumb and then there’s Texas dumb."

"Actually, Texas is no dumber than any other state. They’re just prouder of it."

"My first girlfriend’s last name was Jaroszenko. The second one was Theodossiades. The third was Li. Tell me which one is easiest to pronounce."

There were over 270 comments on this article.
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BETH HOLLOWAY: "We will not let this go until we take Natalee home. It will never end."
WhiskeyGirl
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« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2009, 12:14:13 PM »

What do international people do?  What name did our president go by when he lived in Indonesia?  When he moved to Hawaii?  Why not keep his "Barack Hussein Obama" moniker?

At one point in time, people like my ancestors, had their names changed when they immigrated, by government workers.  Sometimes they changed their names to reflect a break with the past, a better opportunity to fit in with their new homes, or to help other Americans (often immigrants that did not know how to read and write) pronounce them.

My grandfather changed the spelling of his name several times.  He WANTED people in this country to be able to pronounce it the way he wanted to HEAR it being spoken.    It was real simple, mo.

If you have a spelling of your name, and people don't pronounce it the way you want to hear it, not sure what you can do. 

Can the Chinese or any group FORCE people to pronounce a name in a certain way? 

In my limited travel, I've noticed that there are definite pronunciation shifts in the American West, MidWest, and East with regard to names.  People in the same town may spell their name the same, and pronounce it different. 

How would anyone know? 

You can choose to be offended if someone mispronounces your name, you can change the spelling of your name so that it is pronounced to your liking, you can just adapt to the way others pronounce your name and choose not to be offended.  I am sure there are other options as well. 

I've heard that Chinese is a difficult language.  I've also heard from some Chinese friends that Chinese names are unique, each and every one.  Something they are proud of... 

If every name is different, how can ANYONE, be expected to pronounce, spell, or 'deal' with them on an infrequent basis?

No one can know everything, everyone should know something, but all need to give and take, and be courteous.

my opinions.
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oldiebutgoodie
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« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2009, 01:13:20 PM »

I don't think the issue here is people of Chinese descent being offended if someone doesn't know how to pronounce "Li," for example.

Telling someone they ought to change their name completely because the ethnicity of it (Chinese or anything else) offends you is patently offensive and absurd.

My own last name has its roots in Olde English and means "dweller by the woods." It could be mispronounced and has been numerous times in my life and I don't give two hoots. But, if someone were to come along and tell me to pick a different name because the "Englishness" of it is offensive to them or it's too hard for them to pronounce, then they can kiss my 50th-generation English butt.*

It's not this Texas lawmaker's place to determine who has the most "acceptable" surname in the eyes of the law. All Americans, regardless of surname, are entitled to the same rights.


*Even though I am entitled to join the Daughters of the American Revolution by virtue of the fact that my family shed blood in the Revolutionary War and I am descended from Robert Treat Paine, a signer of the Declaration of Independence, I actually managed to hunt up some of my English ancestry and found the English village that bears my family's last name. I am on the "village registry" as a member of the village and am considered a honorary citizen of the Yorkshire area of England. I get email newsletters of village doings from time to time. It's a fantasy trip (in my head only, nothing will ever come of it) to imagine visiting that village one day.
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BETH HOLLOWAY: "We will not let this go until we take Natalee home. It will never end."
WhiskeyGirl
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« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2009, 07:53:01 AM »

I looked at the few articles to help determine what the facts are.  Is this about trying to offend some?  Is this about voter fraud?  I believe this is about being able to identify people.

Why not just use fingerprints and other 'biometric' data?   Perhaps fingerprints could be added to the existing "Real ID ACT of 2005" to make it more comprehensive and help prevent voter fraud, along with fraud related to entitlement and welfare benefits?

One vote one person - provided it's a legal voter?

http://www.burntorangereport.com/diary/8384/national-lawmakers-condemn-rep-brown-for-disparaging-asians

How about the use of Social Security numbers and maybe unique numbers for immigrants as an index for a national voter registration list?  Tie it to "The Real ID Act of 2005" and E-Verify?   

Are you already registered in some other city or state?  Someone else ripping off your identity?  Fraud?

I remember when computers were first used to capture data and storage space was at a premium.  There was only space to capture about 20 characters of a last name.  This forced many names to be truncated - all for efficiency.  Same with street addresses.

I think there will always be a need for flexibility.  Names over time have been changed to make them fit within the English alphabet.  Names of other groups have been changed, for example leaving off baptism names, multiple last names, and other things that have long been a challenge for the English alphabet and American culture.

Quote
When asked by a reporter if she was saying Chinese people should Americanize their names, she responded: "No, and I didn't choose my words very well evidently from what the transcript, from how the transcript reads."


Quote
In a letter to Brown sent Thursday, Liu called on her to either apologize or resign.


http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/APStories/stories/D97FC6P04.html

I have been offended by Obama, should he resign?

Is this about prevent fraud and crime?  Or changing someone's culture? 
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It doesn't do any good to hate anyone,
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WhiskeyGirl
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« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2009, 08:00:59 AM »

Other comments -

Quote
I've seen this problem come up with Arabic names too. Is the dictator of Libya Ghadafi, Qadafi or Khadafy? Is it Muhammed or Mohammed? Usama or Osama?

Quote
Peking -> Beijing

Quote
I always confuse "Betty" Brown with "Petty" Brown. May I also ask whether "Betty" Brown could change her name to "Petty" Brown so that I can deal with more readily here?

Quote
Tom: If her naturalization papers read "Petty Brown" and her driver's license read "Betty Brown", it wouldn't be an unreasonable suggestion.

In my mind, though, a better solution woudl be simply to indicate additionally people's naturalized names on any documents which use a different name ("Hai Nguyen" on the back of "Bobby Wynn"'s driver's licenses, for example).

Barack Obama?  Barry Soetoro?  'Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country.'

http://blog.beliefnet.com/crunchycon/2009/04/those-inscrutable-asian-names.html

I believe the solution should make our voting, identity, and welfare system safe from double dippers.

my opinions
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All my posts are just my humble opinions.  Please take with a grain of salt.  Smile

It doesn't do any good to hate anyone,
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WhiskeyGirl
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« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2009, 08:08:45 AM »

Quote
"I just want to quote the senator who passed this in the senate. I think he summed it up so beautifully when he said, what we're here about, we want to make it easy to vote but hard to cheat. And that's all we're trying to do," said Brown.


http://www.txcn.com/sharedcontent/dws/txcn/austin/stories/040609kvue_Voter_ID-cb.ac49226b.html

A worthy goal. 

In my state, all you need to vote is a name off a list.  No one checks an ID.  "Vote early and often" - and old saying from Chicago.

What are the chances that is this day and age, someone, anyone doesn't have a drivers licence?  Social Security number?  State ID?  Birth certificate?

In my city, you need a government issued ID to return something to the 'Dollar Store'. 

Hmmm...need drivers license to return something I bought for $1.00.  Hmmm...just give any name to vote...

E-Verify, Real ID Act of 2005, fingerprints/retinal scan/other biometric data...
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All my posts are just my humble opinions.  Please take with a grain of salt.  Smile

It doesn't do any good to hate anyone,
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WhiskeyGirl
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« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2009, 08:13:44 AM »

Is Betty expecting people to adopt a standard version of their name?  Use one version for all their documentation?  That sounds like a simple thing millions have adapted to every day.

I don't care how many names they call you at home, in the work place, or elsewhere...

A standard version of a name, what an interesting idea.

If the nation can have a national healthcare snoopy database, why not one for identity?  Identity theft, misuse, and fraud is big business in America. 

The road to recovery may be a rough one, but should be undertaken.

my opinions.
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All my posts are just my humble opinions.  Please take with a grain of salt.  Smile

It doesn't do any good to hate anyone,
they'll end up in your family anyway...
WhiskeyGirl
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« Reply #8 on: April 13, 2009, 09:24:14 AM »

A few things that come to mind from my own life -

A friend that was broadsided by an undocumented person/person who refused to give officers any kind of identification.  He gave several names to an interpreter that was called to the scene, he gave numerous birthdates, he had nothing to identify himself after causing thousands of dollars of human and physical damage.  He gave an address.

Officers never found him again.  He wasn't arrested, he wasn't taken the the 'station', he was never accountable for his actions. 

There has to be a better way.

Some of the most horrific stories of identity theft I know of involve Hispanics.  People who were born here, their parents were born here, and their identities get hijackacked.

One woman even reported the person to police, with current address and destription, and was told no crime was committed.  Another spent years trying to get the problem solved - still a problem.

There has to be a better way.

E-Verify, The Real ID Act of 2005, fingerprints, retinal scan, other biometric data.

There has to be a better way to protect honest hardworking people in ALL nations.

my opinions
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All my posts are just my humble opinions.  Please take with a grain of salt.  Smile

It doesn't do any good to hate anyone,
they'll end up in your family anyway...
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