Sandra Cantu #3 4/15/09 -4/27/09

[Serenity7]

I agree with you Anna 100%.  If the defense can come up with a legitimate reason, they should be allowed to do it.  But they have to pass the "legitimacy" test first. 

Oh, and I suppose I should mention, the discussion about poppies causing a false positive is neither here nor there.  To the extent it is POSSIBLE to test a false positive, the false positive would be the presence of opiates.  Benzos aren't in the opiate family.

But are there substances that can cause benzo false positive results? Understand, I believe that MH very likely gave the girl a valium or two and doped her up. But PROVING that might be harder than all get out...especially if some common children's meds or a trip to the dentist produce the same results. Especially if the child came back otherwise unharmed.

That said, I think the prosecution has a pretty strong case to be made for a second kidnapping charge with this other child...if the hospital records finding benzos in her system are still available. But according to the police Sgt. on CNN, there was never even a complaint brought by the part. As he said, "We ALMOST had something filed." Which means....nothing was filed.

[goodnmad]

New 10 just said that the family of the girl who tested positive for muscle relaxers back on Jan 17th decided not to press charges because of the little girls mothers drug problems. The family was afraid the girl may be taken from her mother if they pursued it.

And are we thinking this child was NOT Sandra Cantu?

I'm as confused as ever.

[JessStar]

Perhaps this would be helpful to my fellow monkeys on the disinterment/exhume issue.  It's the law in California:

A petition to disinter is an equitable proceeding that is addressed to the sound discretion of the trial court. (Estate of Jimenez (1997) 56 Cal.App.4th 733, 739.) Among the factors a court should consider when deciding such a petition are the interests of the public, the wishes of the decedent, the rights and feelings of those entitled to be heard by reason of relationship or association, and the rights and principles of the religious body or other institution which granted the right to inter the body. (In re Keck (1946) 75 Cal. App. 2d 846, 851; see also In re Terra (1952) 111 Cal. App. 2d 452, 458.) The court should make its decision mindful of the fact [*11]  that disinterment is an extraordinary act that should be permitted only under the most unusual circumstances. "'Only some rare emergency could move a court of equity to take a body from its grave in consecrated ground. . . . The dead are to rest where they have been laid unless reason of substance is brought forward for disturbing their repose.'" (111 Cal. App. 2d at p. 457, quoting Yome v. Gorman (1926) 242 N.Y. 395, 152 N.E. 126, 129.)

8 Regarding appellant's contention that he was denied the opportunity to present evidence on the issue of viability by virtue of the trial court's denial of appellant's motion to disinter the fetal remains, the trial court denied appellant's motion because he had failed to demonstrate the remotest possibility that exhuming the remains would have reasonably led to the discovery of credible evidence on the issue of viability. . . .Also, the record indicates that appellant had access both to the pathologist's report on the autopsy of the fetus as well as any representative tissue sections and organs preserved by the pathologist.

[k9ohana]

New 10 just said that the family of the girl who tested positive for muscle relaxers back on Jan 17th decided not to press charges because of the little girls mothers drug problems. The family was afraid the girl may be taken from her mother if they pursued it.

And are we thinking this child was NOT Sandra Cantu?

I'm as confused as ever.

No, I cant speak for anyone else however I  do not think this child was Sandra. The way the news here is reporting it, it sounds like this is another child all together.

[Blink34]

You guys are very wishy washy.

I have a question. Was the ME done BEFORE MH was arrested?

Do they think they need to look for new stuff now that she has talked a bit?

This is an important case and  anyone suggesting I'm glib or would make a bad parent aside, I say if a 2nd look is required, they need to hurry up and do it. I'd hate to 1. have an innocent person go to jail or 2. Have a guilty person get off a technicality.

Being Glib is Unhealthy
AND
Fish Sticks are Unhealthy

Who Knew?

[goodnmad]

New 10 just said that the family of the girl who tested positive for muscle relaxers back on Jan 17th decided not to press charges because of the little girls mothers drug problems. The family was afraid the girl may be taken from her mother if they pursued it.

And are we thinking this child was NOT Sandra Cantu?

I'm as confused as ever.

No, I cant speak for anyone else however I  do not think this child was Sandra. The way the news here is reporting it, it sounds like this is another child all together.

Thank you. I got to the end of Blink's post and read the child is not believed to have been Sandra.

What was the purpose for the visit to the park? How do they know the child was at the park for the entire time?

This is strange and more so sad.

[klaasend]

Thanks JessStar!

K9 -I'm fairly certain it was not Sandra as well. 

[JessStar]

I agree with you Anna 100%.  If the defense can come up with a legitimate reason, they should be allowed to do it.  But they have to pass the "legitimacy" test first. 

Oh, and I suppose I should mention, the discussion about poppies causing a false positive is neither here nor there.  To the extent it is POSSIBLE to test a false positive, the false positive would be the presence of opiates.  Benzos aren't in the opiate family.

But are there substances that can cause benzo false positive results? Understand, I believe that MH very likely gave the girl a valium or two and doped her up. But PROVING that might be harder than all get out...especially if some common children's meds or a trip to the dentist produce the same results. Especially if the child came back otherwise unharmed.

That said, I think the prosecution has a pretty strong case to be made for a second kidnapping charge with this other child...if the hospital records finding benzos in her system are still available. But according to the police Sgt. on CNN, there was never even a complaint brought by the part. As he said, "We ALMOST had something filed." Which means....nothing was filed.

There's no chance of a false positive for Benzo in the context of this case or any similar case.  When a medical examiner conducts an autopsy and an initial test returns a positive for the presence of a drug, the test is then confirmed by a more specific method.  For Benzos, typically gas chromatography mass spectrophotometry (GCMS) is used.   If that test shows a positive, then it's a "without a doubt" positive test.

[Blink34]

New 10 just said that the family of the girl who tested positive for muscle relaxers back on Jan 17th decided not to press charges because of the little girls mothers drug problems. The family was afraid the girl may be taken from her mother if they pursued it.

And are we thinking this child was NOT Sandra Cantu?

I'm as confused as ever.

Not her, I promise goodnmad
B

[Serenity7]

Perhaps this will be the case to change all that.  I certainly hope in the future LE will not be so quick to dismiss the concept of female sexual predators but I can still see how and why they made this potentially fatal mistake. 

Why is it that we are trying to shoehorn MH into the category of a sexual predator? Probably because the media has brainwashed us into thinking that every assault on a child has GOT TO BE somehow a sexual predator.

Perhaps the police didn't pursue a case of sexual assault against MH for the girl that was taken to the park because the girl had been examined...in a hospital...and no evidence of sexual assault was found. I mean, does that seem illogical in some fashion?

We've got some pretty good evidence that MH is involved in the murder of a child. Why is it we seem to feel we have to force her into another category of monstrosity? Don't get me wrong, I'm all for labeling her a sexual predator....if we can actually find some victims!

So far we have a decomposed body and a kid that she went to the park with. And, oh, the one that went to the park came back with no signs of molestation.


But I think you're cool Anna...*smile*

[goodnmad]

New 10 just said that the family of the girl who tested positive for muscle relaxers back on Jan 17th decided not to press charges because of the little girls mothers drug problems. The family was afraid the girl may be taken from her mother if they pursued it.

And are we thinking this child was NOT Sandra Cantu?

I'm as confused as ever.

Not her, I promise goodnmad
B

yours is a word I will trust.

thanks Blink.

The world does not need another Deputy Cain.  But I'm sure there are too many out there.

[FishstickKitty]

Wow, you guys are amazing.

I had no idea I was harming the forum.
I had no intention of harming anything or anyone.
I was simply being myself on this forum that interested me.

I will refrain from posting anymore.

And I love fishsticks!

[Serenity7]

I agree with you Anna 100%.  If the defense can come up with a legitimate reason, they should be allowed to do it.  But they have to pass the "legitimacy" test first. 

Oh, and I suppose I should mention, the discussion about poppies causing a false positive is neither here nor there.  To the extent it is POSSIBLE to test a false positive, the false positive would be the presence of opiates.  Benzos aren't in the opiate family.

But are there substances that can cause benzo false positive results? Understand, I believe that MH very likely gave the girl a valium or two and doped her up. But PROVING that might be harder than all get out...especially if some common children's meds or a trip to the dentist produce the same results. Especially if the child came back otherwise unharmed.

That said, I think the prosecution has a pretty strong case to be made for a second kidnapping charge with this other child...if the hospital records finding benzos in her system are still available. But according to the police Sgt. on CNN, there was never even a complaint brought by the part. As he said, "We ALMOST had something filed." Which means....nothing was filed.

There's no chance of a false positive for Benzo in the context of this case or any similar case.  When a medical examiner conducts an autopsy and an initial test returns a positive for the presence of a drug, the test is then confirmed by a more specific method.  For Benzos, typically gas chromatography mass spectrophotometry (GCMS) is used.   If that test shows a positive, then it's a "without a doubt" positive test.

I'm talking about the girl that went to the park with MH and then got taken to the hospital by her mother later. No ME involved.

[Blink34]

I agree with you Anna 100%.  If the defense can come up with a legitimate reason, they should be allowed to do it.  But they have to pass the "legitimacy" test first. 

Oh, and I suppose I should mention, the discussion about poppies causing a false positive is neither here nor there.  To the extent it is POSSIBLE to test a false positive, the false positive would be the presence of opiates.  Benzos aren't in the opiate family.

But are there substances that can cause benzo false positive results? Understand, I believe that MH very likely gave the girl a valium or two and doped her up. But PROVING that might be harder than all get out...especially if some common children's meds or a trip to the dentist produce the same results. Especially if the child came back otherwise unharmed.

That said, I think the prosecution has a pretty strong case to be made for a second kidnapping charge with this other child...if the hospital records finding benzos in her system are still available. But according to the police Sgt. on CNN, there was never even a complaint brought by the part. As he said, "We ALMOST had something filed." Which means....nothing was filed.

There's no chance of a false positive for Benzo in the context of this case or any similar case.  When a medical examiner conducts an autopsy and an initial test returns a positive for the presence of a drug, the test is then confirmed by a more specific method.  For Benzos, typically gas chromatography mass spectrophotometry (GCMS) is used.   If that test shows a positive, then it's a "without a doubt" positive test.

Jess-
are you referring to a lab test of a live person or just in an autopsy.
The Benzos were in the first girl. Presumably in Sandra as well though

[JessStar]

Perhaps this will be the case to change all that.  I certainly hope in the future LE will not be so quick to dismiss the concept of female sexual predators but I can still see how and why they made this potentially fatal mistake. 

Why is it that we are trying to shoehorn MH into the category of a sexual predator? Probably because the media has brainwashed us into thinking that every assault on a child has GOT TO BE somehow a sexual predator.

Perhaps the police didn't pursue a case of sexual assault against MH for the girl that was taken to the park because the girl had been examined...in a hospital...and no evidence of sexual assault was found. I mean, does that seem illogical in some fashion?

We've got some pretty good evidence that MH is involved in the murder of a child. Why is it we seem to feel we have to force her into another category of monstrosity? Don't get me wrong, I'm all for labeling her a sexual predator....if we can actually find some victims!

So far we have a decomposed body and a kid that she went to the park with. And, oh, the one that went to the park came back with no signs of molestation.


But I think you're cool Anna...*smile*

Wow, that one hurt.  I can't respond.

[klaasend]

Wow, you guys are amazing.

I had no idea I was harming the forum.
I had no intention of harming anything or anyone.
I was simply being myself on this forum that interested me.

I will refrain from posting anymore.

And I love fishsticks!

You called "us" wishy washy for no apparent reason.  Not really harming the forum so much much has an uneccessary opinion of members that have been posting here for some time and none feel they are wishy washy.  Not a good way to make conversation in a "new to you" forum.

[Anna]

I agree with you Anna 100%.  If the defense can come up with a legitimate reason, they should be allowed to do it.  But they have to pass the "legitimacy" test first. 

Oh, and I suppose I should mention, the discussion about poppies causing a false positive is neither here nor there.  To the extent it is POSSIBLE to test a false positive, the false positive would be the presence of opiates.  Benzos aren't in the opiate family.

But are there substances that can cause benzo false positive results? Understand, I believe that MH very likely gave the girl a valium or two and doped her up. But PROVING that might be harder than all get out...especially if some common children's meds or a trip to the dentist produce the same results. Especially if the child came back otherwise unharmed.

That said, I think the prosecution has a pretty strong case to be made for a second kidnapping charge with this other child...if the hospital records finding benzos in her system are still available. But according to the police Sgt. on CNN, there was never even a complaint brought by the part. As he said, "We ALMOST had something filed." Which means....nothing was filed.

There's no chance of a false positive for Benzo in the context of this case or any similar case.  When a medical examiner conducts an autopsy and an initial test returns a positive for the presence of a drug, the test is then confirmed by a more specific method.  For Benzos, typically gas chromatography mass spectrophotometry (GCMS) is used.   If that test shows a positive, then it's a "without a doubt" positive test.

Most employment and even DOT testing is done at small independent labs that do not have the equipment afforded to the State of California which would go all the way up to the best in the Nation at the FBI who is involved in this case.   I do think the ME results are being done within the state, however, but they would be done on the best equipment in the State and are not likely to result in a false anything.

With indepenedent labs one never knows how old the equipment is or how sensitive it may be.  But with the State, where lives are routinely in the balance, it is just the best available for the purpose and false readings would have to be very rare as people could be falsely convicted of all manner of crimes.

There would be few to no false readings in State lab testing equipment or the appeals and wrongful convictions would result in total chaos within the judicial system.

I tend to totally believe the state lab results.

JMO

[Blink34]

New 10 just said that the family of the girl who tested positive for muscle relaxers back on Jan 17th decided not to press charges because of the little girls mothers drug problems. The family was afraid the girl may be taken from her mother if they pursued it.

And are we thinking this child was NOT Sandra Cantu?

I'm as confused as ever.

Not her, I promise goodnmad
B

yours is a word I will trust.

thanks Blink.

The world does not need another Deputy Cain.  But I'm sure there are too many out there.

In fairness, until late last eve I believed it was as well. Did you read the piece or did you make the Cain connection, just curious.

 I hate to say this but I got the distinct impression that this mother was basically scared out of filing something. As in, you will be the first person they investigate, blah blah. I hope like hell I am wrong. I cannot get past this was preventable so I dont know how the hell the cantu's will
B

[JessStar]

I agree with you Anna 100%.  If the defense can come up with a legitimate reason, they should be allowed to do it.  But they have to pass the "legitimacy" test first. 

Oh, and I suppose I should mention, the discussion about poppies causing a false positive is neither here nor there.  To the extent it is POSSIBLE to test a false positive, the false positive would be the presence of opiates.  Benzos aren't in the opiate family.

But are there substances that can cause benzo false positive results? Understand, I believe that MH very likely gave the girl a valium or two and doped her up. But PROVING that might be harder than all get out...especially if some common children's meds or a trip to the dentist produce the same results. Especially if the child came back otherwise unharmed.

That said, I think the prosecution has a pretty strong case to be made for a second kidnapping charge with this other child...if the hospital records finding benzos in her system are still available. But according to the police Sgt. on CNN, there was never even a complaint brought by the part. As he said, "We ALMOST had something filed." Which means....nothing was filed.

There's no chance of a false positive for Benzo in the context of this case or any similar case.  When a medical examiner conducts an autopsy and an initial test returns a positive for the presence of a drug, the test is then confirmed by a more specific method.  For Benzos, typically gas chromatography mass spectrophotometry (GCMS) is used.   If that test shows a positive, then it's a "without a doubt" positive test.

I'm talking about the girl that went to the park with MH and then got taken to the hospital by her mother later. No ME involved.

I have no idea what test was performed.  But from what I understand from reading the posts, the test was confirmed by clinical symptoms--the little girl was slurring her speech and staggering when she walked.

[goodnmad]

so if not to molest or otherwise physically harm the child, why drug her? it's not like a case of a sitter drugging a child to get him or her to sleep. right?

so if the 1st child was drugged and perhaps photos of a sexual nature were taken but nothing was done that would leave evidence on the medical exam -- isn't that still sexual abuse?