Sandra Cantu #3 4/15/09 -4/27/09

[Tracygirl]

She needs to pay for what she did, there is no doubt about it. Everyone has choices, everyone has skeletons in their closets. I have literally been so upset at my ex I had to control myself as to not throw something at him. I found that control, as do millions of other people and we stopped from doing something that would harm another person.

I don't get pedophilia at all. I don't understand why someone would want to do this to a child or get turned on by seeing a child. It is so un-natural, especially for a woman. We are wired to care and protect children, not to do this. I have read so many times an abuser was once a victim, why? Not why they turn to abuse, that is basic psychology, but why do they not get the help they need to not turn into abusers. This doesn't happen to all victims though, many turn that pain of being victimized into advocating. So why some vicitms become abusers and others, not? That is the million dollar question I think.     

I do not condone what she did, not for one second, however if it is found out she herself is a victim of molestation I find it sad. She obviously didn't get the help needed to recover from her ordeal and if her family knew about it but choose to ignore it, they are somewhat responsible for what happened to Sandra. So too, if the parents/family knew about a mental illness so serious she would kill and rape a child yet they did what so many parents/family do, choose to ignore it, look past it, make excuses for it, I hope each one feels the guilt of this child's death for the rest of their lives.

Is it ok to ask, if it is found MH is a victim of sexual abuse, will that change the way you feel about this case and about her?

Any abuse in her past would not change my feelings towards her whatsoever. I had so sympathy for her watching her in court yesterday. If she is proven to be abused as a child I certainly feel bad about that, and I can relate to that on a personal level. The major difference is I have never and I would never even think about abusing a child, I got chills just hearing the charges against her being read yesterday.

Lots of people were abused as children and grow up to be healthy adults, who do not turn and abuse others. If she tries to use that as an excuse I find that very sick.

[Wyks]

Her grandparents probably took them in so she wouldn't be alone with her child.

Legally there is only so much you can do with a mentally ill adult. They can be on med's but you can't make them take them. You can encourage they get help and even insist upon it but you can't if you don't have insurance most places won't keep you any length of time.

The mental health system sucks as much as the jail system that lets sex offenders back out on the street.

I sure am with you on that. And the stigma of mental health issues, is another issue. All so infuriating.

I agree with you both. 

Several years back, California cut their mental health services, in effect eliminating most mental health long-term care that was being paid for by its Medi-Cal program.  A great majority no longer had in-patient treatment or outpatient care, and nowhere to turn. Those who did the budget cuts and others who were concerned about how this elimination would affect the public, suggested that each community step forward and provide this treatment and care thru their Churches and other benevolent programs.  It would have been helpful had the state ensured those programs were actually in place and available before cutting so many folks off from mental health treatment/care.  Because what happened is that there was a huge influx of mentally ill folks into the communities, who had no treatment/care at all.  Think of how that has not only affected them, but the communities as well.  IMO, and in the opinion of several of my colleagues at the time, it was a total disgrace on the part of those who put forth those budget cuts. 
   

[N2WISHN]

She needs to pay for what she did, there is no doubt about it. Everyone has choices, everyone has skeletons in their closets. I have literally been so upset at my ex I had to control myself as to not throw something at him. I found that control, as do millions of other people and we stopped from doing something that would harm another person.

I don't get pedophilia at all. I don't understand why someone would want to do this to a child or get turned on by seeing a child. It is so un-natural, especially for a woman. We are wired to care and protect children, not to do this. I have read so many times an abuser was once a victim, why? Not why they turn to abuse, that is basic psychology, but why do they not get the help they need to not turn into abusers. This doesn't happen to all victims though, many turn that pain of being victimized into advocating. So why some vicitms become abusers and others, not? That is the million dollar question I think.     

I do not condone what she did, not for one second, however if it is found out she herself is a victim of molestation I find it sad. She obviously didn't get the help needed to recover from her ordeal and if her family knew about it but choose to ignore it, they are somewhat responsible for what happened to Sandra. So too, if the parents/family knew about a mental illness so serious she would kill and rape a child yet they did what so many parents/family do, choose to ignore it, look past it, make excuses for it, I hope each one feels the guilt of this child's death for the rest of their lives.

Is it ok to ask, if it is found MH is a victim of sexual abuse, will that change the way you feel about this case and about her?

If she was indeed a victim all I would change is that her abuser would have murdered her, stuffed her in a suitcase and dumped her in a dirty pond. Then maybe Sandra would still be with us.

I don't know if I can agree with that. No child ever should ever be abused, murderd, stuffed into a suitcase and dumped, no child.

I didn’t ask you to agree with me. You asked for my opinion and I gave it. If it would have saved Sandra from this monster then that's how I feel. Personal abuse is no excuse for abuse and murder of another. There are way too many abused people in this country that don't carry on the tradition. She is a monster and I have no regard or empathy for her

[Maven]

She needs to pay for what she did, there is no doubt about it. Everyone has choices, everyone has skeletons in their closets. I have literally been so upset at my ex I had to control myself as to not throw something at him. I found that control, as do millions of other people and we stopped from doing something that would harm another person.

I don't get pedophilia at all. I don't understand why someone would want to do this to a child or get turned on by seeing a child. It is so un-natural, especially for a woman. We are wired to care and protect children, not to do this. I have read so many times an abuser was once a victim, why? Not why they turn to abuse, that is basic psychology, but why do they not get the help they need to not turn into abusers. This doesn't happen to all victims though, many turn that pain of being victimized into advocating. So why some vicitms become abusers and others, not? That is the million dollar question I think.     

I do not condone what she did, not for one second, however if it is found out she herself is a victim of molestation I find it sad. She obviously didn't get the help needed to recover from her ordeal and if her family knew about it but choose to ignore it, they are somewhat responsible for what happened to Sandra. So too, if the parents/family knew about a mental illness so serious she would kill and rape a child yet they did what so many parents/family do, choose to ignore it, look past it, make excuses for it, I hope each one feels the guilt of this child's death for the rest of their lives.

Is it ok to ask, if it is found MH is a victim of sexual abuse, will that change the way you feel about this case and about her?

Any abuse in her past would not change my feelings towards her whatsoever. I had so sympathy for her watching her in court yesterday. If she is proven to be abused as a child I certainly feel bad about that, and I can relate to that on a personal level. The major difference is I have never and I would never even think about abusing a child, I got chills just hearing the charges against her being read yesterday.

Lots of people were abused as children and grow up to be healthy adults, who do not turn and abuse others. If she tries to use that as an excuse I find that very sick.

I agree.  Being abused in my past I actually find it offensive for someone to use that as an excuse! (does that make sense?)

Makes perfect sense and I agree 100%!

Welcome to SM!!

[Izzy58]

[/quote]
No. Literally over half of America has had a less than ideal childhood. I have no stats to back me up here but as an adult you are responsible for your own actions. You may need help to deal with your past but what happened to YOU shouldn't become anyone elses problem. I find it inexcusable for ANYONE to blame any crime on what happened to THEM as a result of their upbringing. MOO
[/quote]

I totally agree with you!  Your life is what you make of it and how you make your choices...either you choose to go the right way, or you choose the other.

[Tracygirl]

She needs to pay for what she did, there is no doubt about it. Everyone has choices, everyone has skeletons in their closets. I have literally been so upset at my ex I had to control myself as to not throw something at him. I found that control, as do millions of other people and we stopped from doing something that would harm another person.

I don't get pedophilia at all. I don't understand why someone would want to do this to a child or get turned on by seeing a child. It is so un-natural, especially for a woman. We are wired to care and protect children, not to do this. I have read so many times an abuser was once a victim, why? Not why they turn to abuse, that is basic psychology, but why do they not get the help they need to not turn into abusers. This doesn't happen to all victims though, many turn that pain of being victimized into advocating. So why some vicitms become abusers and others, not? That is the million dollar question I think.     

I do not condone what she did, not for one second, however if it is found out she herself is a victim of molestation I find it sad. She obviously didn't get the help needed to recover from her ordeal and if her family knew about it but choose to ignore it, they are somewhat responsible for what happened to Sandra. So too, if the parents/family knew about a mental illness so serious she would kill and rape a child yet they did what so many parents/family do, choose to ignore it, look past it, make excuses for it, I hope each one feels the guilt of this child's death for the rest of their lives.

Is it ok to ask, if it is found MH is a victim of sexual abuse, will that change the way you feel about this case and about her?

Any abuse in her past would not change my feelings towards her whatsoever. I had so sympathy for her watching her in court yesterday. If she is proven to be abused as a child I certainly feel bad about that, and I can relate to that on a personal level. The major difference is I have never and I would never even think about abusing a child, I got chills just hearing the charges against her being read yesterday.

Lots of people were abused as children and grow up to be healthy adults, who do not turn and abuse others. If she tries to use that as an excuse I find that very sick.

Yes that is true, but why? What is the reason some grow up to not abuse and some do? It seems to me regardless of how offensive that is to us, (I too am a victim of abuse just so you know) unless we find out why this happens our children, their children, and their children are not truly be safe, kwim?

I am a victim of abuse and the person who abused me was also a victim of abused, and that person who abused him was most likely abused... In some cases it is a cycle. I stopped the cycle however so please do not think other wise. I think this is because I faced it, dealt with it and decided to not be a victim of it anymore. That was me though, can't say that is the answer to all of this.

[Stacey]

Blink I have a question please
I know you can talk to all kinds of people and can't tell who they are, but can you tell us if your source that told you of MH swallowing the knives was family or was it someone from the hospital or someone in law enforcement

I understand if you can't tell and wouldn't want you to if you can't

I just want to know how the media found out about it was it just from the family

Monkey hugs

[fatcatlurker]

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/us_world/2009/04/14/2009-04-14_death_penalty_considered_for_suspec.html

Huckaby is charged with one count of murder that includes tacked-on "special circumstances" for kidnapping, lewd conduct with a child and rape by a foreign object. The "special circumstances" means prosecutors could seek the death penalty.

If they don't, Huckaby faces life without parole if convicted. Prosecutors did not offer a motive for the shocking crime.

"You could do an entire psychological seminar, write a thesis or spend your entire life trying to figure out a motive here," a source close to the case said, calling it "pointless" to search for an excuse for such sickening behavior.


From me - FCL.
We are not the only ones baffled, PO, and concerned about this.  And if the autopsy comes back with suffocation for the COD that will be the nail on the head for me. We do need to know the motive for this crime so that it can be studied.  To make light of this is a joke when we see it more and more everyday.  So I know some will disagree but for now I will call it what it is ... a sex crime.  JMO

Absolutely, FCL. Agreed. A motive is critical, and will be established, imo. You know why? She cant defend herself without one.
I hate to be so stuck on an issue, but Gramma Connie is the only person professing her innocense. You know, the other person who was at home when this happened-
B

Blink I've been reading some scarey stuff on this and it could include Gramma Connie and a skinny 5 yr old not allowed outside.  It's very scarey sick stuff.  All the stuff I'm reading is mainly geared towards men but it works for me right down to a strange maternal relationship.  But if there were accomplices I want them caught.  The conflict for me in what I have been reading is the exact type she would be classified as if she did this alone vs w/someone.  There appear to be distinct types and she(MH) crosses lines on this.  Maybe a new breed?  The worst pedofile I ever read about was a woman and she is serving life in prison but did not murder to the best of my knowledge and I can't remember her name.  That is why I do not doubt this.  IDK.

And back to Gramma Connie and getting Sandra to the church.  I think she made up the part about Sandra's sister coming over? and simply coerced Sandra into helping her at the church?  I mean otherwise Sandra had to be inside a house and incapacitated- than carried to a vehicle to the church?  Do we know what time road blocks were set up?  And MH's familiarity with the church as her chosen place for this act means it's been done before there w/out getting caught. I think LE is right on asking for other children to possibly come forward.

[Maven]

Yes that is true, but why? What is the reason some grow up to not abuse and some do? It seems to me regardless of how offensive that is to us, (I too am a victim of abuse just so you know) unless we find out why this happens our children, their children, and their children are not truly be safe, kwim?

I am a victim of abuse and the person who abused me was also a victim of abused, and that person who abused him was most likely abused... In some cases it is a cycle. I stopped the cycle however so please do not think other wise. I think this is because I faced it, dealt with it and decided to not be a victim of it anymore. That was me though, can't say that is the answer to all of this.

That's a good question Tracygirl, one that I can not answer. I don't know why some get past what happened to them while others continue the abuse on the next generation.  I think it's a matter of facing it like you and I did and not letting the abuser have that power over you anymore. My abuser was not abused in his past, so my case was not a cycle. I also don't think it's really an excuse either, so many victims can move on and get past their abuse, it may play a part in some cases of the cycle repeating itself, but I think there are other factors. . Are their brains wired differently? If so would they be the abuser even if they were never abused?

[Stacey]

She needs to pay for what she did, there is no doubt about it. Everyone has choices, everyone has skeletons in their closets. I have literally been so upset at my ex I had to control myself as to not throw something at him. I found that control, as do millions of other people and we stopped from doing something that would harm another person.

I don't get pedophilia at all. I don't understand why someone would want to do this to a child or get turned on by seeing a child. It is so un-natural, especially for a woman. We are wired to care and protect children, not to do this. I have read so many times an abuser was once a victim, why? Not why they turn to abuse, that is basic psychology, but why do they not get the help they need to not turn into abusers. This doesn't happen to all victims though, many turn that pain of being victimized into advocating. So why some vicitms become abusers and others, not? That is the million dollar question I think.     

I do not condone what she did, not for one second, however if it is found out she herself is a victim of molestation I find it sad. She obviously didn't get the help needed to recover from her ordeal and if her family knew about it but choose to ignore it, they are somewhat responsible for what happened to Sandra. So too, if the parents/family knew about a mental illness so serious she would kill and rape a child yet they did what so many parents/family do, choose to ignore it, look past it, make excuses for it, I hope each one feels the guilt of this child's death for the rest of their lives.

Is it ok to ask, if it is found MH is a victim of sexual abuse, will that change the way you feel about this case and about her?

No it would not change the way I feel about her
No child should have to live with abuse they should feel safe
If we say she did this because she herself was abused and was acting her pain out on Sandra, isn't fair to compare her life with Sandra's. Because MH was not murdered and she made the choice to murder little Sandra.
She could have stopped at the abuse
She did not give Sandra the choice to grow up and live her life

Monkey hugs

[Deenie]

Hi Monkeys. - big post ... after watching the Vid of MH in Court.
After watching MH on the video of her in Court and watching her responses ..My Mind is perplexed. That and It has been said over and over that for a Woman to molest/murder another's child is almost unheard of.
Watching her melt during at Key words when the Judge is talking - her emotions hit - for the words of Sandra, Rape, Murder and Foreign Object
I do not think she did it. I think she Witnessed the Rape, Murder of Sandra and she was there ..but I don't think she herself did these unforgivable acts of rape/murder.
I think too she is not solely responsible for Luring, Kidnapping and Drugging Sandra .. she was instructed to find a child and Sandra being in the wrong place at the wrong time...
It was perfect planning. The entire city was attending the Funeral of a Slain Police Officer. 20k residents standing curbside .. All LE were at the Funeral. All at the Same Time Sandra was last seen.

It all goes back to the little girl she had in her possession at the Park that she returned home to her Mother drugged. That seems not to be in the media. Why is that? Because its being investigated and its under wraps. Its hush hush.   
I think that MH implicated herself to keep LE away from her Grandparents and knows everything that happened to Sandra .. because she was part of it and she witnessed all of it. Why she so wanted to protect the Grandparents is imo there is an alliance that goes deeper than family.

Connie Lawless was in the Home when Sandra came over .. Connie Lawless knew Madison was not in the house. Connie knew that Melissa was lying that she said she turned Sandra away because Madison had to pick up her toys,  when she gave the statements to Media and LE.
Connie made statements that Sandra had been abused. WHY? would a doting Grandmother who had her own Great Granddaughter of 5 yrs of age playing with Sandra say that? As she said in her first breath that Sandra was a perfect child and loved by our family and was always welcomed in our home.
Would she not have done something about it ..if it were true that Sandra was abused? Or was she using choice words when interviewed by LE. Her subconscious mind speaking.  Connie Lawless is no angel in my mind.
I think that MH Lured Sandra into her Home. She drugged her and stuffed her into the Suitcase.
The Church and MH - MH - It's been speculated that she was only a volunteer at the church ..not the Sunday School teacher. No one has made it clear that she was indeed the Sunday School Teacher. That and people have stated that they never see Cars in the Church parking lot. That the congregation is at best a handful of people. No one has made it clear that there actually was Services held at this building in a very long time if ever.
MH Made up a story for LE that she had a suitcase filled with decorations to take to the church. She set it in the driveway, realized she had no keys and no cell. Went back into the house to look. Could not find them, grabbed her spare set ..drove off to the church.
WITHOUT the Suitcase.  She realizes after the fact.. hmmm

The Neighborhood.
I have to say this, knowing the Lawless were an elderly couple- to have something stolen out of your driveway mid day is very unlikely. If anything - if the suitcase sat for any great length of time .. Connie Lawless herself would have noticed it, and or a Neighbor would have taken it and brought it to the attention of Connie.. You left a suitcase in your driveway.  It simply would not go POOF.

MH Contends and Calls LE.
My Suitcase was Stolen. The Same Day Sandra is reported Missing. But her Report comes into LE after Sandra is reported Missing which would have been after 8 pm.
Yet she did not go to the Church after 8 pm. She went during the Time that Sandra was walking around the MHP. She had just turned Sandra away, that Madison was not able to play. So in 4 hours plus it took MH to figure out after going to the church to take the decorations .. minus the suitcase ..4-5pm ..took her that many hours to figure out the suitcase was STOLEN. No. Because it was never stolen. YET she felt that she needed to Tell someone that her Suitcase was stolen/missing .. WHY?
WAS it because FRED or another person could have been SEEN removing the Suitcase from the LAWLESS Driveway ....and she wanted to cover her tracks.
Everyone knowing that Sandra had "friends" that she would visit and go to in route to certain homes first. Well that would dismiss the Lawless because they all said - She was Here but she was turned away because Madison could not play.. we sent Sandra away.
I think that Sandra was stuffed inside the suitcase as it sat in the Driveway for a short amount of time. And someone maybe FRED  or another came and picked it up. Therefore, from that Moment the Trail of Sandra is no longer traced to the Lawless house nor anywhere.

I think that MH has been abused herself by the same people. I think that she is a broken woman for many reasons. MH as I see it.  Her in Retrospect -suffers from Stockholm syndrome.  A psychological response the victims became emotionally attached to their victimizers regardless of the danger or risk in which they have been placed.
Her past shows that she has been on a downward spiral. She was weak and had nothing to lose by being involved in all of this, or that she has some sick alliance to these people ..she figured at the time .. I can't fall much further than I am now ..and someone offered her $$$$ " Just find us a child". You won't be involved.. your the last person that anyone would look at.  Keep your mouth shut. Play the Game. Do as your told. You will be compensated.
BUT MH's conscience got the best of her. And she made statements that opened doors and now she is where she is. And the people who are involved they walk away. Why ? because MH has a past on record for being unstable and etc. She is nothing to them.
She may not say anything due to it would implicate people that are the closest to her. That maybe who ever is the Kingpin has threatened her daughter life or something to that extent. 
I think that Sandra was simply in the wrong place at the wrong time ..and that this was Planned not for Sandra but for a Child to be taken and used/abused and murdered. Used for Child Porn and God knows what else and this will all come out.
I Think that this Case is so much Bigger than MH - and it will be found out. She is going to Talk at one point. Maybe not to save herself. But she will talk, and with what she says it will offer enough information to start putting pieces together of a puzzle - that will lead to more connections & convictions I pray.

Justice For Sandra 

[Wyks]

Am I the only one who still has the weird porn ring/cult type of feeling about this one?  I'm not sure if there's been anything new that I don't know about.  (I didn't see anything in this new thread, unless I just missed something!)

No you aren't the only one, several of us have shared and shared our feelings on that. 

[Wyks]

Hi MunkeyMunk, welcome! 

[MunkeyMunk]

Hi MunkeyMunk, welcome! 

Thanks Wyks

[no rose colored glasses]

Deenie that was an excellent post. Grandma Connie has been on my radar, I don't know what it is about her, there was a look she gave during an interview, that made me upset. Also when asked what was taken from the house by LE, Connie made the statement, phones, computers, the usual stuff that is taken, struck me odd a woman of that age would say that.

[Catbert]

http://www.kron4.com/News/ArticleView/tabid/298/smid/1126/ArticleID/1048/reftab/36/t/Psychologist-Says-Huckaby-s-Courtroom-Tears-Appear-Genuine/Default.aspx

STOCKTON (KRON) -- A psychologist who has examined the videotape of Melissa Huckaby at her first court hearing for the murder, kidnapping, and rape of Sandra Cantu says she believes the woman isn't faking her tears.

"Obviously she was feeling emotion," psychoanalyst Debra Moore said.  "Tears were running down her face. I would say the odds are that was a genuine emotion. There aren't that many people around who produce tears at will.  No one knows if those were tears of guilt, of shame, of compassion for the victim, of fear for her future.  We don't know what's inside her.  We do know that apparently when she was arrested previously counseling was recommended.  That's fairly unusual so there must have been something that really brought her emotional state of being into question.  So it's possible this truly is someone who has a lot of emotional instability and possibly is right now in a combination of shock herself, being numb herself, and at the same time having a huge mixture of guilt and fear and shame. But it's difficult to really presume what a person is feeling based on an emotional reaction.

Moore says while it's unlikely Huckaby was manufacturing the tears, professionals must always be prepared for a surprise.

"I'm doubting this was fake," Moore added.  "It's possible.  We know there are some famous perpetrators who have been sociopathic with no remorse, who can fake tears, who can fake out very convincingly even professionals. Everybody's been duped.  I'm doubting that is the case. It's not statistically very likely.  It's much more statistically likely that she's a disturbed young woman and those emotions were genuine but what combination of genuine emotions they were really expressing is hard to say."

The psychologist says Huckaby has good reason to be feeling emotional right now just days after Tracy Police arrested her in the killing.

"If she's convicted outright, she's looking at a huge sentence or even the death penalty," Moore said.  "If she's found not guilty by reason of mental incompetence or insanity, nevertheless her future is extremely compromised at this point. So, her future is horrible and she has to be aware at some level of that consequence."

Police and prosecutors have not revealed a possible motive in the case.  Moore says professionals immediate start looking for evidence Huckaby might be acting out something that happened to her when she was a child.

"We certainly wonder if this woman was a victim of sexual abuse herself," Moore said.  "If she was reenacting something and it ended up being fatal. That is a very reasonable question to wonder about in this case.  If so she's certainly traumatized and probably chronically traumatized and is probably feeling a tremendous mix of emotion right now which is probably quite genuine."

Stay tuned to KRON 4 and KRON4.com for continuing coverage of the Sandra Cantu case.



Have we discussed ^^^^this yet? 

[Tams]

Just now having a chance to catch up today - wow! 7 pages already since I checked in a few hours ago!

I wanted to thank AZSunny for bringing JazzTune's post over from the previous closed thread (back on page 1). Highly informative (from the viewpoint of an experienced psych nurse) and very helpful as always! Definitely brings insight to all of us here as we try to figure this one out.

Thanks JazzTune & AZSunny!

[Deenie]

Deenie that was an excellent post. Grandma Connie has been on my radar, I don't know what it is about her, there was a look she gave during an interview, that made me upset. Also when asked what was taken from the house by LE, Connie made the statement, phones, computers, the usual stuff that is taken, struck me odd a woman of that age would say that.

No Rose you just reminded of Something -
MH told LE - I Have NO internet therefore she could not go online to report the suitcase stolen.

And yet she has a Myspace and a Facebook  -

Your words triggered me-  That they had their Computers taken from the Lawless home.. so when did they take the Computers away? The Evening of the 27th? 
I don't know ...does anyone know?

[no rose colored glasses]

Thank-you catbert, I found that very interesting, especially this part.   We certainly wonder if this woman was a victim of sexual abuse herself," Moore said.  "If she was reenacting something and it ended up being fatal. That is a very reasonable question to wonder about in this case.  If so she's certainly traumatized and probably chronically traumatized and is probably feeling a tremendous mix of emotion right now which is probably quite genuine."       Chronically traumatized what does that mean, I know what chronic means, but I'm not sure if chronically traumatized, means that all the time she is traumatized, and gets very little break from the trauma of abuse?

[no rose colored glasses]

Deenie that was an excellent post. Grandma Connie has been on my radar, I don't know what it is about her, there was a look she gave during an interview, that made me upset. Also when asked what was taken from the house by LE, Connie made the statement, phones, computers, the usual stuff that is taken, struck me odd a woman of that age would say that.

No Rose you just reminded of Something -
MH told LE - I Have NO internet therefore she could not go online to report the suitcase stolen.

And yet she has a Myspace and a Facebook  -

Your words triggered me-  That they had their Computers taken from the Lawless home.. so when did they take the Computers away? The Evening of the 27th? 
I don't know ...does anyone know?

I can't answer that, but the way Connie just so matter of factly stated the usual stuff that is taken