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Author Topic: Sandra Cantu #3 4/15/09 -4/27/09  (Read 442419 times)
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no rose colored glasses
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« Reply #180 on: April 15, 2009, 05:35:15 PM »

I just feel like if a man had committed this crime we wouldn't be looking for porn rings, drug/medication issues, accomplices, past sexual abuse problems, etc etc we would have him hung already.

Yet I know how very rare this is and how hard it is to come to terms with in my mind so it makes it that much harder to deal with my anger and I can't help but call it how I see it.
You're right, even my husband said to me, look you are looking for somekind of excuse for her, I kept saying no I'm not, maybe I am. I'm just trying to understand, I'm not excusing horrific behavior. But there is a double standard I guess going on  And in one of the articles posted a page or two back, it did say the deliberate murder.
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« Reply #181 on: April 15, 2009, 05:35:25 PM »

Thank-you catbert, I found that very interesting, especially this part.   We certainly wonder if this woman was a victim of sexual abuse herself," Moore said.  "If she was reenacting something and it ended up being fatal. That is a very reasonable question to wonder about in this case.  If so she's certainly traumatized and probably chronically traumatized and is probably feeling a tremendous mix of emotion right now which is probably quite genuine."       Chronically traumatized what does that mean, I know what chronic means, but I'm not sure if chronically traumatized, means that all the time she is traumatized, and gets very little break from the trauma of abuse?

Yes, you're on the right track, NoRose.  A person who is 'chronically traumatized' is one who has had horrific trauma repeated over and over, without let up.  What can happen as a result of this, is that it tends to affect the person's ability to recover emotionally and develop as a healthy functioning adult.  And because the trauma is all that person has ever known, it can repeat in the next generation and so on.  Some folks however, are able somehow to go in the opposite direction, with a mindset on not allowing that cycle to repeat. 

Thank-you. I was wondering also, while many, many people after being abused as a child, can as you say, go in the opposite direction , with a mindset on not allowing that cycle to repeat. I guess what I'm wondering is the people that can go forward and lead a productive life, after what has all happened to them, they are a much stronger human being, that can move forward. But for some people, is it because they are weaker, or have some problem mentally, that they continue to repeat the cycle? That some people just can't move away from the aftermath of abuse, no matter how hard they have tired even with professional help?

I hear ya NoRose!  It sure can be difficult for these folks.  They may have a mindset, determined to never ever let their own children suffer in any way that they themselves have been abused as a child or in their past adult life.  One problem that can happen is that despite their mindset and determination, they very often have not had good positive role models in their lives, to help them understand HOW to accomplish what they intend for their future.  This is where therapy comes into play, a way of helping them understand their past in order to move on from it and learn how not to repeat any of that in their future, as well as not being drawn to abusers unconsciously who may be the actual abusers in their future not them. 

Sometimes this cycle, despite how much one is determined to not repeat, gets repeated anyway.  And the person with the mindset is crushed, having never wanted that to happen.  I'm thinking of a situation where the woman, as a child, was horrifically abused, with a mindset of that never happening to her future children, who ends up being drawn to an abuser for a husband.  She finds herself in similiar surroundings that she grew up in, altho she never meant for that to happen.  Until/unless she gets help in therapy, the cycle is typically going to repeat (by her husband) despite her honest intentions.  This kind of thing happens more times than not. 

A woman in this situation can learn how to get herself out of it, how to stop the abuse.  Despite her intentions for it never to have happened, it may have anyway, and yet... the cycle still can stop there.  Her children may have experienced *some* of what she experienced.  And *if* those children can get help to learn how not to carry that abuse forward into another cycle, then their children might actually be the first generation to never experience any abuse, or find themselves with abusive partners.  And when that happens, the cycle will be broken. 

It's hard to do!!  I swear, what doesn't kill us, only makes us stronger, more determined, ya know?  Each and every step we take toward ending that cycle, only serves to make our future generations more safe.  But it takes baby steps.  And patience with ourselves. 


 
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« Reply #182 on: April 15, 2009, 05:37:16 PM »

I just feel like if a man had committed this crime we wouldn't be looking for porn rings, drug/medication issues, accomplices, past sexual abuse problems, etc etc we would have him hung already.
Yet I know how very rare this is and how hard it is to come to terms with in my mind so it makes it that much harder to deal with my anger and I can't help but call it how I see it.

I think the porn ring would be an easier concept if it were a man. I mean I know women look at porn just as a man does, but this is about children??? WTH? Then she is a mother for gosh sakes. that is what stuns me more then her being a volunteer sunday school teacher or her neighbor, she is a mother. As a mother how could she do this? Thats my anger point.

Absolutely TG.
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« Reply #183 on: April 15, 2009, 05:37:38 PM »

Am I the only one who still has the weird porn ring/cult type of feeling about this one?  I'm not sure if there's been anything new that I don't know about.  (I didn't see anything in this new thread, unless I just missed something!)

No you aren't the only one, several of us have shared and shared our feelings on that. 

I know that several of us have talked about it for a while, I just thought I was sensing a change of heart or direction at the beginning of this new thread since some of the focus was on a possible mental illness, etc.   Just a quick barometer check!

I hear ya Flossy!  As new info is released, we get to tweak our theories and include that info somehow.  The focus may be on understanding the new info at the moment, which maybe is why it feels different to you.  I still have the porn ring/cult thing as my topmost theory, and a possible mental illness and being on meds only adds into that theory.  IMO.  Am betting before this is over, we'll be finding out a lot that adds into it all. 

And yet, as others have said, *if* it's proven out that Melissa did this alone, or had a hand in it, no matter what info is added as time goes on, still doesn't IMO excuse her for whatever part she may have played in it. 

There are many folks everywhere who are dealing with some sort of issues from their past, on or off meds, who still manage to make the right choices in life, without bringing harm to anyone else.  Choices bring consequences, good or bad.  IMO. 
 



At this point all I really know is that LE has charged MH with murder plus and state there are no other suspects. In my eyes, if she was involved in any way then she is guilty of murder. HOWEVER, I sat and watched the live recovery of that suitcase from the filthy pond and was told by LE that they didn’t know if there was a body in it. If I had to make a guess, I would say they knew darn good and well there was a body in the suitcase and it was Sandra. The army of officers taking evidence not to mention the Medical Examiner team hanging around for hours, all of it. So that being said, I can’t be sure that MH has acted alone because I do believe LE could be telling me the opposite of what’s happening once again. I’m sure if they are, then they have their reasons for it.

I still want to know how Grandma knew Sandra had been abused before LE released that information………
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« Reply #184 on: April 15, 2009, 05:38:33 PM »


Thank you for the pics, klaas.

Bless that little angel.

Thank goodness for kleenex. I am bawling like a baby.
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« Reply #185 on: April 15, 2009, 05:38:38 PM »



Finding Johnny will be interesting as he may have dirt on the Lawless crew

From what I have been reading on another site they came across some info that Johnny and his wife had a baby last year.  Could explain the unpaid med bills.  Maybe MH had just found this out and the information caused her to go further over the deep end?
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« Reply #186 on: April 15, 2009, 05:38:42 PM »

Am I the only one who still has the weird porn ring/cult type of feeling about this one?  I'm not sure if there's been anything new that I don't know about.  (I didn't see anything in this new thread, unless I just missed something!)

No you aren't the only one, several of us have shared and shared our feelings on that. 

I know that several of us have talked about it for a while, I just thought I was sensing a change of heart or direction at the beginning of this new thread since some of the focus was on a possible mental illness, etc.   Just a quick barometer check!

I hear ya Flossy!  As new info is released, we get to tweak our theories and include that info somehow.  The focus may be on understanding the new info at the moment, which maybe is why it feels different to you.  I still have the porn ring/cult thing as my topmost theory, and a possible mental illness and being on meds only adds into that theory.  IMO.  Am betting before this is over, we'll be finding out a lot that adds into it all. 

And yet, as others have said, *if* it's proven out that Melissa did this alone, or had a hand in it, no matter what info is added as time goes on, still doesn't IMO excuse her for whatever part she may have played in it. 

There are many folks everywhere who are dealing with some sort of issues from their past, on or off meds, who still manage to make the right choices in life, without bringing harm to anyone else.  Choices bring consequences, good or bad.  IMO. 
 

I do agree that if she did, in fact, act alone, there has to be something off.  Maybe it's wishful thinking, I don't know.  I guess I don't want to think that a woman who is mentally sound could do something like this.  Maybe I just don't want to admit that there is such evil.  Seeing her at the arraignment was definitely not the same feeling as when we see Casey at any court appearance.  I didn't get the feeling of looking at a monster like I do when Caseface is plastered all over the TV with that smug look on her mug.

I kept re-reading, thinking I had missed something but I guess her mental state was just being explored.  You brave peeps, you!

That picture of the horse drawn carriage just took my breath away.  Poor little angel.
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« Reply #187 on: April 15, 2009, 05:42:45 PM »


















Could the grandparents have suspected her and they were the ones calling the tips into LE or put her on LE's radar?
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« Reply #188 on: April 15, 2009, 05:43:20 PM »


If in fact she is proven guilty, then in my eyes she is a monster. If she played ANY part in the demise of Sandra she is still a monster.

I do understand that, N2WISHN.  How very hard this must be for Sandra's family, waiting for justice.  Am thinking if it were me, it would be hard to hold me back, ya know? 

For example, I believe that Jessica Lunsford's dad showed great patience and restraint during trial.  Am thinking I would have hopped over that rail many times to take things into my own hands.  Sigh. 



I am so over the edge in the manner Sandra was abused and then thrown in that filthy pond. And if in fact it was Sandra's trusted Sunday School teacher and neighbor she was friends with make it all the worse. Mark Lunsford really did contain himself and one can only try to imagine the violent emotions he had to deal with considering I'm dealing with such venom within myself and I didn't even know Sandra.


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« Reply #189 on: April 15, 2009, 05:43:55 PM »

http://www.khou.com/topstories/stories/khou090219_mh_child_porn_woman.30e3447d.html

Tell me does this woman look like one who looks at child porn?  Shocked me!  You just never know.  It's there and its getting worse.
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« Reply #190 on: April 15, 2009, 05:45:06 PM »

Thanks Wyks, I appreciate you experience and knowledge. 
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« Reply #191 on: April 15, 2009, 05:45:24 PM »

I just feel like if a man had committed this crime we wouldn't be looking for porn rings, drug/medication issues, accomplices, past sexual abuse problems, etc etc we would have him hung already.

Yet I know how very rare this is and how hard it is to come to terms with in my mind so it makes it that much harder to deal with my anger and I can't help but call it how I see it.

Good points made, FCL! 
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« Reply #192 on: April 15, 2009, 05:53:20 PM »

I just feel like if a man had committed this crime we wouldn't be looking for porn rings, drug/medication issues, accomplices, past sexual abuse problems, etc etc we would have him hung already.

Yet I know how very rare this is and how hard it is to come to terms with in my mind so it makes it that much harder to deal with my anger and I can't help but call it how I see it.

I respectfully disagree Fatcat.

If a man had done this I believe we would absolutely still be looking for porn rings, especially after the Tracy60 hit the news in Jan. I also still believe we would be trying to make as much sense of it as we are with Melissa. If the man were the father of a 5 year old girl, the statements would be how could a father do this instead of how could a mother do this.
No matter who committed the crime, male of female, this one is especially twisted and I believe we would all still be trying to wrap our minds around it.
I dont get the feeling that anyone is trying to let MH off easy or gain her sympathy at all. I feel everyone here is simply struggling to make sense of this incredibly senseless tragedy.

I think the sexual aspect is the hardest part to wrap ones mind around with the perp being a female.

I would also like to add that in my mind, MH has been found guilty already. This may not be fair however I am not an officer of the court there for I feel no remorse in drawing my own conclusions with someone who has confessed prior to trial.
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« Reply #193 on: April 15, 2009, 05:54:56 PM »

I wish we could dig up more on Fred Williams tho he bothers me.  I mean how could LE not be looking at him with the way he has put himself in this case?  With the letter and the suitcase?  Seems to with that alone he's either wacko or involved...right?

Gramma Connie's lies I see differently.  As either a victim herself or a potential abuser?
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« Reply #194 on: April 15, 2009, 05:55:13 PM »



    There are no words....   
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« Reply #195 on: April 15, 2009, 05:57:58 PM »

I just feel like if a man had committed this crime we wouldn't be looking for porn rings, drug/medication issues, accomplices, past sexual abuse problems, etc etc we would have him hung already.

Yet I know how very rare this is and how hard it is to come to terms with in my mind so it makes it that much harder to deal with my anger and I can't help but call it how I see it.
I am going to post a Rant - your words sparked it - I am not yelling at you -
Fatcat ... Statistics are even the most heinous Sex Offenders are released into public and are Men .. they get slapped on the wrist and thrown back into society. Marc Klaas said it best last night on NG -
Perps - Sex Offenders - Majority are White Males, 45 % are friends/family/known to be in the Child's Life.
SO's are given more Options and Outs of Jail/prison then any given person that gets caught busted with Marijuana. If our Prisons were not so filled to the gills with people who are busted with MJ - we would have room for SO's.  I am not advocating Pot. I am just saying. This is why you can go and look and Map in Sandra's community alone - Many Perps in her local area. You can pick any city at random and find SO's. Who have committed Heinous acts against children yet have never served a day in jail.
Is that Fair ? NO, but its the truth.
I am speaking in General -
Do you think really that these SO's you speak of are not into child porn or into Rings - Hear me out .. Men and Women who are Sex Offenders .. Typically the Man is in Charge. They chose a Woman to bait children. They MEN themselves are the lurkers the evil POS's who sit in the background have all the control. They chose Women who have been Victimized and use them as Pawns ..and then they send the Women out to Bait children. Who takes the Fall when something happens - the Woman. 
This is not unheard of. This is fact. Its  what is prostitution at its most Evil.
Most of these Men are Chicken Hawks ..they use, abuse, drug, control young women from broken homes and make them do their dirty deeds. Its nothing new its been going on since the time of Man. Pick on the Weak, Weary, Feed them, Cloth them, Control them, abuse them, Make them do your evil tasks. Pimp, Chicken Hawk ..
He may even be a Teacher .. or a Man of Clergy .. Or that Rusty busted Toothless Dude that drives around in that Beater car in the City ... That's called Portraying a Facade.
defined :The word comes from the French language, literally meaning "frontage" or "face".
Sex Offenders are what they are and most if not all - Wear a Face that most people do not recognize.
Laws have to Be put in Place to protect Our Children
 
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« Reply #196 on: April 15, 2009, 05:58:25 PM »

http://www.khou.com/topstories/stories/khou090219_mh_child_porn_woman.30e3447d.html

Tell me does this woman look like one who looks at child porn?  Shocked me!  You just never know.  It's there and its getting worse.
That story turned my stomach. I just can not fathom that there are people in the world like this. My brain cannot do it.
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« Reply #197 on: April 15, 2009, 06:01:05 PM »

http://www.khou.com/topstories/stories/khou090219_mh_child_porn_woman.30e3447d.html

Tell me does this woman look like one who looks at child porn?  Shocked me!  You just never know.  It's there and its getting worse.

Ok I wish I didn't read the article. Infants in diapers being raped screaming for their mothers.... Horrible!!! What is wrong with the world.

I have to log off now, I need a break
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« Reply #198 on: April 15, 2009, 06:02:35 PM »

http://www.khou.com/topstories/stories/khou090219_mh_child_porn_woman.30e3447d.html

Tell me does this woman look like one who looks at child porn?  Shocked me!  You just never know.  It's there and its getting worse.

Ok I wish I didn't read the article. Infants in diapers being raped screaming for their mothers.... Horrible!!! What is wrong with the world.

I have to log off now, I need a break
I hear you TG.
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My Dad always told me "If you're not part of the solution, You're part of the problem".
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« Reply #199 on: April 15, 2009, 06:05:18 PM »



Rest in Peace sweet Sandra

God Bless her and her family
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