Sandra Cantu #3 4/15/09 -4/27/09

[GramaMonkey]

One of the questions that I feel really should be answered by the Tracy PD, is months ago when Melissa was questioned about drugging of a child, where did this investigation go? Did they just question her, and drop it? Did the parents pursue this further?

Good questions! I would like to know the answers also. Did they dismiss it? Did they follow up? What happened with that? Is the child OK? Who are the parents? If they did not pursue, why not?  Very good questions NRCG!!!

I'm just wondering if more would have been done, maybe Sandra would be alive, but maybe that is just naive of me.

Most definitely, I as well wondered how they handled that.  This may well be what has come back to bit them in the a$$.

[Maven]

One of the questions that I feel really should be answered by the Tracy PD, is months ago when Melissa was questioned about drugging of a child, where did this investigation go? Did they just question her, and drop it? Did the parents pursue this further?

Good questions! I would like to know the answers also. Did they dismiss it? Did they follow up? What happened with that? Is the child OK? Who are the parents? If they did not pursue, why not?  Very good questions NRCG!!!

I'm just wondering if more would have been done, maybe Sandra would be alive, but maybe that is just naive of me.

I think I am naive too, because I think if more would have been done after the first report of  "drugging of a child" by MH, we wouldn't even be here discussing this horrible crime.

What reason could one have to drug another human..... child or adult?

[Catbert]

Just hit me … what if this was MH’s final cry for help? She has been part of this abuse all her life (including picking good ole’ Johnny for a hubster - who could have learned from the Lawless fam) - she tries the drug a child incident and is not taken seriously - kills SC and then swallows the blades HELLO FOLKS I AM HERE AND SICK AND HAVE SOMETHING TO TELL…

It would explain (to me) the shamed person I saw in the arraignment video

SCREAMING for someone to hear her?

thoughts? 

[da sparkenator]

[q ::MonkeyDance::uote author=Dolce link=topic=4853.msg769870#msg769870 date=1239834702]

So Melissa still uses her ex's last name?  Didn't Blink say she talked to her?  I'll have to reread her article.

Sorry if I pO anyone, I'm just disgusted as are we all.

Its all good, I do not think you pissed anyone off, a difference of opinion does not warrant pissiness....if it did boy would my husband be living in a pit of fire!   
[/quote]

Hi Dolce!  In all this sadness, thanks for making me smile!   

[Wyks]

O/T.. sorry mods

If any monkey in here lives in Alabama, and uses Influend Cough and Cold Products, please see my recent post in Musings about an FDA recall for that. 

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4866.msg770031#msg770031

Evening Wyks!
I live in Alabama!  Thanks for the heads up

You're welcome MontgomeryMonkeyMellie!    

[cecilita]

Wow..Im thinking Nancy Grace has a girl crush on Caysee Anthony. I know it's a important story but omg..

Anyways she just said that huckaby confessed to cops saying it was an accident???

ITA!!  I'd quit watching her show, but I want to hear about Haleigh.  I get so sick hearing about Casey.  I just want to see the key thrown away.

a little girl do not die by accident under the supervision of an adult. an accident is not to rape a baby....an adult is more stronger than an inocent kid......it never will be an accident.....

[spring2]

Wow..Im thinking Nancy Grace has a girl crush on Caysee Anthony. I know it's a important story but omg..

Anyways she just said that huckaby confessed to cops saying it was an accident???

ITA!!  I'd quit watching her show, but I want to hear about Haleigh.  I get so sick hearing about Casey.  I just want to see the key thrown away.

a little girl do not die by accident under the supervision of an adult. an accident is not to rape a baby....an adult is more stronger than an inocent kid......it never will be an accident.....

Bumping because you're ABSOLUTELY RIGHT! 

[Maven]

I don't know why but I just can't shake this feeling that there is MORE to this case. I know LE says there is no one else involved, but I just feel that there are others.  It is really bothering me. I don't think MH acted alone, I do think MH should pay for her actions, but I think there is someone out there that is also responsible for what happen to little Sandra. My first thoughts go to Fred Williams, but I think it's even bigger than that.

I was going to bed, but I just can't wrap my mind around what is said to have happened to this little angel at the hands of MH. I don't think it was MH's first time doing something like this and I don't think she did it on her own. I hope I am wrong, and that she is the only one responsible and is already behind bars, so the children and parents of Tracy can go about their lives feeling somewhat safer. That may be difficult with the 60 pedophiles out there right now, this is all just so sad and horrible.

Sandra may you rest in peace, and my prayers are with you and your family.

[califmom]

Momma Maven
Rules you can teach your Daughter.
1. Adults do not ASK Children for Help.
2. Adults that are known yet still strangers - who Want your Daughters Attention - Instruct her that she has the right to say NO. She has the right to say I am leaving. She had the right to say - NO thank you. My Mom needs me. I am leaving and she does not need to look back. No Guilt on her part.
3. Give your Daughter a Code Word.

That if she says this Word - YOU know something is not right.
Lets say she goes to a sleep over and feels uncomfortable she wants YOU to come get her, but everyone is in the room and she is scared to tell you. Maybe she is being bullied or maybe she just feels the need ..she wants to go home..whatever ..
You and her pick a Code Word - and this Word is one that Only You and She knows.
Only to be said in case of Urgency or 911. This word will stick with her for many years.
My Dad and I made a Pact one day and we chose a phrase used in a Charlie Brown cartoon. And you know what - I had to use it One time.
Pick a word that she can put into a conversation with you on the phone - that wont' come off to others as strange or unusual. Maybe she has a favorite stuffed animal with a name .. That she could say on the phone to you .. Mom, " Teddy" was here.
That's it - its Done. MOM is told. NO one knows but MOM and child. Mom just gets in the car - drives to the house - and rings the door bell .. says Unfortunately we have a family emergency and My daughter has to come home. No one knows any different -
Your child is with you, no one can hurt her and you take her home.

If you do not offer resources for your child - they will not know how to react in situations. Give them the gift of Confidence to keep in their back pocket - teach them, tell them, and let them know that You are always available 24/7 - if they need you.
NO Matter what.
Pre-Teens/Teens
If they screwed up .. and they call you ..come get me. Deal with the screw up later. The most important thing is that they are ok and you have them at Home.

Excellent post, Deenie!! 

We do the same thing...My children have their special code words/sentences that only their dad and I know.  They even have their own special word/sentence for their grandma, who is very involved in their lives. 

We also have a family code word (only dad, me and the kids know this word...nobody else) in case a stranger were to show up at my kids' school, practice or wherever they are waiting for me or dad to pick them up... anyhow, let's say a stranger walks or drives up to them and says something like "Hi, I am a co-worker of your dad/mom and your dad/mom is in a meeting that they can't get out of and your dad/mom asked me to pick you up and take you back to dad/mom's office".  My kids know that they are to ask the stranger for our family code word and if the person doesn't know it they know to scream, make noise to draw attention to this person and get away from that person immediately and get to a teacher or coach or whomever they know, depending on where they are.  Thankfully, my children have never had this type of real scenario happen to them.  Part of the reason for that is I am at the school before the kids are let out so they are not waiting for me... I am waiting for them and I am at almost all their practices, games, etc... I only hope that if by chance I was on my way to pick them up that my car, God forbid, were to break down and my kids had to wait for me that nothing like this were to happen.  It is a scary thought, but I just hope they are prepared by what we have taught them or should I say "trained" them.
You are so right when you say we have to offer resources for our children so they know how to react in situations.  We just can't expect them to automatically know how or what to do when a situation arises. 

[JazzTune]

Geez, this case is so troubling on so many levels.  I have such a difficult time even trying to imagine the horror that Sandra endured.  I keep thinking too this could not have been a one-person operation.  So many loose ends with these other guys, Williams, and Sinclair.  Just doesn't pass the "sniff" test.

Someone mentioned Melissa should have been kept longer in the hospital.  What happened to her is what is happening everywhere.  About par for the course. So I will echo the same response that was given.  Mental health care has been decimated for a long time now.  Even with insurance, you're not going to stay long on our unit.  Several days only, is the usual length of stay.  It's very disturbing to us who are manning the trenches.  We do the best we can with what we have. 

Our goal is to stabilize the patients and set them up with out-patient treatment.  Many of them though get caught in the revolving door.  They're often back in before they even have that first appointment.  Usually in far worse shape too.  Pink Angel is right.  No one can force them to take their meds.  The patients say the side effects are too difficult to cope with.  So they stop them.  And then they come back to us.  Over and over.

There's still a big difference though with our patients.  Very seldom do any of them express a desire to hurt anyone else.  If Melissa did rape and kill Sandra, then her situation goes way beyond anything I see with my patients. 

Our patients are not on that level at all.  As Wyks explained, she had a client who ate the fish in the tank in order to feel more peace!  I "hear" that type of logic a lot too.  My favorite patients are the schizophrenics as well.  Their struggles are intense.  It's a real victory when they show genuine trust in their interactions.   

Again, I want to say how much I value this forum.  The knowledge and insight here are beyond anything I could have imagined.  So thankful to be able to participate and bounce my thoughts around.  I really appreciate those who have responded and added their own thoughts, especially on the mental health aspects.  (Thank you AZSunny and Tams, for your very encouraging comments!)

As for this case, I can't help feeling this is the tip of an iceberg of some type.  Bet we're in for a whole lot more revelations.  Poor Sandra.  (And I really worry about Melissa's little daughter.  What evil has she witnessed and experienced in her few brief years?)

[JazzTune]

Not sure what happened above with my last post.  Blank screen, large part of it.  Hmmm... must have goofed somehow.  Sorry!

[Nut44x4]

No problem Jazz.....all fixed now 

[flossy]

I think that MH got away with it the last time. The little girl that was in her possession " Taking her to the Park"  that she returned to her MOM. Mom was extremely upset that she had no phone number for MH and did not know exactly where her daughter was. 
..that was later to be found the little girl had drugs in her system after being with MH.

I think that MH was paid for providing that little girl. MH says in her own words I took her to the Park 3 times that week ..and talks about the Mom not having her cell number ..She I think thought OK ..I got away with this. The child is fine. Remembers nothing. No Medical Doc came forward and stated the child was abused.
Well I guess if you were knocked out -- you would not remember anything - have nothing to tell. No Red flag there. Not yet anyway. <a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/NgPXjRAglRk&amp;hl=en&amp;fs=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/NgPXjRAglRk&amp;hl=en&amp;fs=1</a>
 
so she got Paid for that and then was told by who ever is in charge of this - Get us another child. And she thought .. Ok, last child was only drugged and ( my mind goes south - photo's were taken and or more) and that in MH's Mind - No one was hurt, nothing serious came of it ..and I was paid.
So here is Sandra Cantu standing on her Porch .. and MH thought Easy Prey.
Can I come in .. Can I play with Madison ? Its mid afternoon and a Friday .. and Sandra probably said to MH .. I am going to the Movies .. or something to the effect that Sandra would not be looked for ..for a few hours. Even though Sandra didnt have the money to go to the Movies. MH thought this will work. I will take Sandra for a few hours and return her home.

NO harm no Foul - like last time.
Yet I think the last little girl was much younger than Sandra .. And Sandra either fought her MH at the scene and or others and or was awake during heinous acts / or..a witness to others and or her own self being harmed. And they MH and ? felt that Sandra would talk, and or show sign's of abuse if returned home... so they killed her.

She was meant to be like the other girl... drugged and taken " abused without any bodily harm" " photographed" and returned home.
It didn't work out though..not like the last time.
Listen to MH talk about the little Girl who she took to the " Park".. on the Video.
* she is speaking on her phone to a reporter prior to her arrest ..

This is the way I see it, too - for the most part.  I just feel that her death was accidental, not deliberate - as a result either of the drugging or the awful acts.  Unless they have a COD, I can't figure out how they could deem her death deliberate. 

I just don't feel that MH intended for her to die.  I also think she rationalized it in her mind -  as far as she was concerned, if the kids didn't know what was going on due to the drugs, it wasn't harmful to them.  This eased her conscience. 

We'll see what today brings.  I'll check back in after work.

Have a good day, Monkey friends!

[ChihuahuaMom]

I don't know why but I just can't shake this feeling that there is MORE to this case. I know LE says there is no one else involved, but I just feel that there are others.  It is really bothering me. I don't think MH acted alone, I do think MH should pay for her actions, but I think there is someone out there that is also responsible for what happen to little Sandra. My first thoughts go to Fred Williams, but I think it's even bigger than that.

I was going to bed, but I just can't wrap my mind around what is said to have happened to this little angel at the hands of MH. I don't think it was MH's first time doing something like this and I don't think she did it on her own. I hope I am wrong, and that she is the only one responsible and is already behind bars, so the children and parents of Tracy can go about their lives feeling somewhat safer. That may be difficult with the 60 pedophiles out there right now, this is all just so sad and horrible.

Sandra may you rest in peace, and my prayers are with you and your family.

ITA!!

[4getUnot]

Good Morning Everyone and Welcome to the New Monkeys!!!!!!

Being a fellow newbie I have to tell you how grateful I am to have a place to vent, share and grieve with others who feel the same frustration and sadness.  The most frustrating and saddest thing is the vision of a beautiful, happy child like Sandra skipping down the street replaced with the vision of the MONSTER who took her life.  How are we going to rid ourselves of these monsters so our children can be safe and carefree again??  I want them put away for life or give them the death penalty.  When toleration endangers our children it is time stop tolerating!!!!

Now my thoughts on MH and ITA with Deenie, Flossy and others- 

IMO she knew very soon after the crime was committed that she was going down for it.  There  was something that caused her to start covering her tracks right away and I believe that's why she started talking so much.

I don't believe this is her first time at this.  She was going to get caught this time and she knew it.

Sometimes the smallest details can be the most revealing.

The suitcase is a very revealing part of this crime IMHO.

When did a Sunday School teacher need a $200 suitcase to carry supplies back and forth to church?????   Melissa didn't work and had little or no income and had been through a "rough patch" recently. With limited resources why would a single mom make that kind of investment?  Was it more important to have that suitcase than a place for her and her daughter to live?   When did she ever do any traveling that would justify the need for such a nice, expensive piece of luggage????  If someone gave her the suitcase what was their reasoning for giving her such a gift????? I want to know when, where and why she bought this suitcase as it may have been part of a larger plan all along.  Also if she were planning a trip for Madison why wasn't she packing that suitcase for her daughter to leave the next day?

She mentioned that she looked for her cell phone and keys and couldn't find them.  That cell phone could hold some very important info and maybe the investigators are diligently searching for it.

I was shocked to learn she swallowed 3 razor blades.  Seems one would have done severe damage to oneself.  At first it blew all my theories away because I thought this could be an act or remorse.  But then I thought if she knew she would be facing a death penalty it might be worth a try to illicit some sympathy, a desperate act for sure, but it does fit my theory that she knew she was caught.

IMO when LE is asking for others to come forward they don't believe this is her first time either.

The petty theft mental health thing is another "out there" for me.  Were they treating her for being a kleptomaniac???? One can only guess.  I have wandered if maybe the SUITCASE was stolen.  A stolen suitcase with a body in it can't be traced right????  Forgive me monks, I seem to be transfixed on the suitcase.

I have to say I agree with others who believe this crime is the tip of the iceberg.  I can't imagine what lies ahead but one doesn't have to look far behind to see that child porn rings have been able to fly under the radar for far too long. Maybe this time a domino fell in the right place.

 

[JessStar]

Assuming the body went into the suitcase and into the water at the earliest time after her disappearance...it was how many days until she was found? What if she was alive and transported in the suitcase to another place? Then killed and dumped later? Would there be a rate of decomposition that can be measured so that the medical examiner can determine within say 24 hours the time of her death?

I'm sure they will know within 24 hours, in fact, they have already suggested she was killied within 4 hours from the video where we see her skipping.

I was wondering if she was put alive in that suitcase, and then thrown in the water to die.

No, police reported the Church as the location of the murder.

[GramaMonkey]

Good Morning  All Monkeys.....Welcome New Members....

[JessStar]

Ok... Going off topic from the NG hating, which by the way I could do plenty of... BUT... I was just wondering how far along in the decomposition stages Sandra's body was found in... I'm asking because I was just thinking if her poor mother had to go to the morgue and identify her and how scary a sight that must have been... She was in the suitcase a month right? So would there be much decomp since it was emerged in water that I imagine wasn't very hot??? Ok... Thanks... Sorry for the horrible image... I do not mean to offend...

She was in the suitcase about 2 weeks before her body was found.  I'm not sure she would be identified by a family member, more likely dental records. 

Edited to add:  she went missing March 27 and her body was found April 6th I believe

CBS 13 reported early on that she had been positively identified through dental records:

Autopsy Confirms Remains Of Sandra Cantu
 The San Joaquin County coroner has positively identified the remains of 8-year-old Sandra Cantu through dental records, but no other autopsy information has been released.
http://cbs13.com/local/sandra.cantu.church.2.979636.html

I was always curious as to why they were the only news outlet to report that, but there it is.

[Kimmy53]

Good Morning Monkeys! 

Welcome to the new Monkeys too!!!

I like alot of you believe that this is not MH's first time and I also feel that there is way more to this than is reported.  I think there is someone else involved and the porn ring is a very high possibility.

I just hope that LE is questioning MH and still investigating.  I don't think she will be able to hold out and not tell what she knows for very long.

It bothers me that LE is saying she is the only one involved period. They say this so confidently.  I would like to know how they can be so sure.  Unless of course them saying this would lead to a false sense of security for others involved.

[cookie]

Morning all Monkees!
Whew! finally got caught up on this thread....lots of good info to read...
that horse drawn carriage carrying little Sandra's body really got to me...if I ever were to feel any sympathy for MH, which I don't at all, I would only need to bring to mind the sight of that little coffin to bring me back to reality....so sad and so unnecessary ....this child did not deserve to die....so innocent ....just seeing her skipping happily in that video of her, so happy and carefree....and a few short hours later, she is dead...I still can't wrap my head around this, no matter how hard I try...so senseless....this child died for some sick pleasure of another....I am gobsmacked truly!