Sandra Cantu #3 4/15/09 -4/27/09

[no rose colored glasses]

Thanks for that Nut  . I don't think the mother of the little girl was falling down drunk was she? And even if she were, the grandparents could have spoken to LE instead. And if the mother of the little girl had accidently given a drug to the child, or the child got into her mother's meds, I doubt if the mom would have taken the kid to the hospital, she would have probably let her sleep it off, so she would not get into trouble.

[cece]

I hope I'm not being rude by just jumping in here, but since I'm new, maybe you forgive me.

I was looking for any information on the replacement Judge Linda Lofthus & found an interesting article from a death penalty case of last year that she presided over.  It gave me some insight into what we may expect from her in this case.  I will just post the link for those that are interested.  (That is if I can this right  )

http://www.recordnet.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080524/A_NEWS/805240318

[JessStar]

With evidence of benzos in her system, seen in a purple Kia Sportage, having been taken without her parent's permission, from the same mobile home park as Sandra, being remarkably similar in appearance to Sandra, the same age, under remarkably similar circumstances, with MH admitting to it, and making up a story about speaking on the cell phone, and admitting to having been questioned about the drugging incident, and the cops saying they dropped it because they couldn't prove MH gave her anything due to elapsed time. . . oh, I get it now.  You convinced me.  Must be a coincidence.

And what does the condition of the MOTHER have to do with it?????  The cops were faced with a drugged child for God's sake!  At that point, I don't care who gave her the drugs.  The cops should have investigated the incident!! If she somehow got ahold of them at home and ate them, then children services should have investigated because the parents were endangering their child's life!!!  Using your logic, if the little girl would have come across the parent's loaded 9mm handgun and shot herself, then the cops should have turned a blind eye because the mom was looped!

Sorry if I'm coming off a little strong, but there's a big difference between taking an objective view of the facts as we know them and taking speculation to the outer limits by suggesting that the first child's "Drugging" incident can be explained by suggesting she was tired.

You must have missed my post when I said I thought MH had taken the little girl to the park to kill her. There are people who carry other peoples kids to the movies, to the ice cream shop, to the grocery store, to parks, to schools, to churches...all over this country. Every day. All I'm saying is how are the cops suppose to know this wasn't an innocent mix up? How are they suppose to know that this ISN'T just a tired child? And then after they find out it is drugs...how do they know where it came from?

I personally saw a Wal mart  shut down for a while one day when they issued a Code Adam. Kidnapped or missing kid. Was a huge deal. Wouldn't let anyone leave the store. Cops everywhere. Someone finally thought to call the grandmother. She had seen the girl in the store and just...took her! Went home! Didn't tell anybody! Cops deal with those kinds of situations 99 times out of 100. Every day. Somebody forgets to call and say, "I took the kid home" and it becomes a nation wide alert. Typically and usually...it's nothing. It's a mistake. Someone just messes up. As a cop, I can understand why they'd rather err on the side of assuming that a crime HASN'T occurred as opposed to arresting someone falsely.

As to the condition of the mother.....Imagine for a moment you're a cop. You've been called to the hospital. The mother of the child is drunk. I mean she's falling down, slurring her words, throwing up her dinner drunk. She starts talking about how her kid has been kidnapped, and how she wants the person responsible thrown in jail,...etc etc.

The hospital then tells the police, "Yeah, the kid has drugs in her system." So the cops think about it a minute. It's been SEVERAL HOURS since the kid was returned. Mom is looped. Mom is accusing a SUNDAY SCHOOL TEACHER...the granddaughter of a local pastor...of being a kidnapper...and mom can't stand up straight. Maybe the kid was drugged by MH...or maybe Mom is so drunk she accidentally gave her kid some Xanax from her OWN prescription instead. Maybe the cops even ask the hospital staff, "You got any other evidence? Bruises? Cuts? Evidence of sexual assault?" And the hospital people say, "No. We got none of that."

What are the cops suppose to do? 

Was I there? Do I know this was how it was? No...I wasn't there. I don't what the cops saw. But IF it is anywhere close to what I just described...what were they suppose to do? Arrest a Sunday school teacher because she took a friend of her daughters to the park? Oh, yeah...that would have made it to court.

Like I say...hindsight's 20/20. Should they have arrested MH at the time? Now I think we'd all have to agree "Absolutely yes!" At the time though...I can see how this would have been seen as a minor mix up by someone who'd had a few too many to drink.

To the text highlighted in red--they investigate it.  Plain and simple.  That's their job--TO PROTECT AND SERVE!!!!!!  They chose to do nothing, and now there's blood on the hands of the Tracy PD.  If it was a question of a prescription mixup, with mom you ask the mother if she's taking Valium, or librium, or some other benzo containing concoction.  It's that simple!  I don't care about evidence of sexual assault at that point.  That can come later.  But standing right in your face is a drugged 7 year old girl!  Good God, you have a child drugged with a drug that is widely subject to abuse and you do NOTHING!!  And since you asked, if I were a cop, and I received a call of a missing child that turned up later that day to have benzo's in her system, by God I'd investigate it because 7 YEAR OLD CHILDREN SHOULD NOT HAVE BENZOS IN THEIR SYTEM!!!!!  When it comes to our children, it's better to be safe than sorry.  If you have nothing to hide, you wont be offended when you're asked. 

And I'd venture to guess the scenario was nothing like you described.  Why?  Because the mother is the one who noticed her child's uncharacteristic behavior--the slurred speech, the falling over, the inability to stand--and took her child to the hospital. I doubt she would have noticed that if she was as sloppy drunk as you suggest.

Ok, this is getting a little over the top for me.  I need to stop. 

[k9ohana]

I hope I'm not being rude by just jumping in here, but since I'm new, maybe you forgive me.

I was looking for any information on the replacement Judge Linda Lofthus & found an interesting article from a death penalty case of last year that she presided over.  It gave me some insight into what we may expect from her in this case.  I will just post the link for those that are interested.  (That is if I can this right  )

http://www.recordnet.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080524/A_NEWS/805240318

I think this is a great post cece. Very interesting that she used a less often used method that could have made her very unpopular and Testa applauded her in the end. The more honest and fqir the judge the less likely the ruling will be over turned later on, I hope. I certainly hope we get a speedy resolution here however I would be willing to hang in there no matter how long it takes if it is done right the first time.

[Stacey]

Hello Monkeys

See no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil what this means to me

See no evil, looks the other way when our children are being harmed because they just can't wrap their mind around this kind of evil. To afraid of what they might see

Hear no evil, doesn't want to hear about all the children that are harmed so they can pretend it doesn't happen.  To afraid of what they might hear

Speak no evil, lets just brush this under the rug if it's never spoken then it never will happen to the children. To afraid to have a voice

It's just to much for some to endure but our children endure it every day, hour, minute and second. If they can endure it then we should be able to stand up and shout it from every roof top.

We should see the evil eye to eye and stand firm
We should hear the evil of what our children are telling us
We should speak the evil because the monster's are hoping we keep our mouths shut

I don't post much but my heart is hurting for our children.

Monkey hugs

[cookie]

Jess...you are correct in my opinion....^^^^^^^

the drugs in that child's system.....red flag...should have been followed up on imo....no matter what condition the mother was in...someone/somehow that 7 yr old child got some drugs in her system and the police should have found out how and why this happened....

[no rose colored glasses]

I hope I'm not being rude by just jumping in here, but since I'm new, maybe you forgive me.

I was looking for any information on the replacement Judge Linda Lofthus & found an interesting article from a death penalty case of last year that she presided over.  It gave me some insight into what we may expect from her in this case.  I will just post the link for those that are interested.  (That is if I can this right  )

http://www.recordnet.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080524/A_NEWS/805240318

Thank-you and WELCOME 

[cece]

I hope I'm not being rude by just jumping in here, but since I'm new, maybe you forgive me.

I was looking for any information on the replacement Judge Linda Lofthus & found an interesting article from a death penalty case of last year that she presided over.  It gave me some insight into what we may expect from her in this case.  I will just post the link for those that are interested.  (That is if I can this right  )

http://www.recordnet.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080524/A_NEWS/805240318

I think this is a great post cece. Very interesting that she used a less often used method that could have made her very unpopular and Testa applauded her in the end. The more honest and fqir the judge the less likely the ruling will be over turned later on, I hope. I certainly hope we get a speedy resolution here however I would be willing to hang in there no matter how long it takes if it is done right the first time.

Thank you K9ohana.  You are very kind.  I agree, we may be here a long time with this one, but we can only hope in the end it means justice for Sandra.

[klaasend]

I hope I'm not being rude by just jumping in here, but since I'm new, maybe you forgive me.

I was looking for any information on the replacement Judge Linda Lofthus & found an interesting article from a death penalty case of last year that she presided over.  It gave me some insight into what we may expect from her in this case.  I will just post the link for those that are interested.  (That is if I can this right  )

http://www.recordnet.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080524/A_NEWS/805240318

Welcome Cece - thanks for the link!

[Edward]

Hello Monkeys

See no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil what this means to me

See no evil, looks the other way when our children are being harmed because they just can't wrap their mind around this kind of evil. To afraid of what they might see

Hear no evil, doesn't want to hear about all the children that are harmed so they can pretend it doesn't happen.  To afraid of what they might hear

Speak no evil, lets just brush this under the rug if it's never spoken then it never will happen to the children. To afraid to have a voice
It's just to much for some to endure but our children endure it every day, hour, minute and second. If they can endure it then we should be able to stand up and shout it from every roof top.

We should see the evil eye to eye and stand firm
We should hear the evil of what our children are telling us
We should speak the evil because the monster's are hoping we keep our mouths shut
I don't post much but my heart is hurting for our children.

Monkey hugs

This is wonderful ..Thank You.
I do not own this forum, But if I did,
 This would be the moto for the monkeys to remember and post by.

[Tracygirl]

With evidence of benzos in her system, seen in a purple Kia Sportage, having been taken without her parent's permission, from the same mobile home park as Sandra, being remarkably similar in appearance to Sandra, the same age, under remarkably similar circumstances, with MH admitting to it, and making up a story about speaking on the cell phone, and admitting to having been questioned about the drugging incident, and the cops saying they dropped it because they couldn't prove MH gave her anything due to elapsed time. . . oh, I get it now.  You convinced me.  Must be a coincidence.

And what does the condition of the MOTHER have to do with it?????  The cops were faced with a drugged child for God's sake!  At that point, I don't care who gave her the drugs.  The cops should have investigated the incident!! If she somehow got ahold of them at home and ate them, then children services should have investigated because the parents were endangering their child's life!!!  Using your logic, if the little girl would have come across the parent's loaded 9mm handgun and shot herself, then the cops should have turned a blind eye because the mom was looped!

Sorry if I'm coming off a little strong, but there's a big difference between taking an objective view of the facts as we know them and taking speculation to the outer limits by suggesting that the first child's "Drugging" incident can be explained by suggesting she was tired.

You must have missed my post when I said I thought MH had taken the little girl to the park to kill her. There are people who carry other peoples kids to the movies, to the ice cream shop, to the grocery store, to parks, to schools, to churches...all over this country. Every day. All I'm saying is how are the cops suppose to know this wasn't an innocent mix up? How are they suppose to know that this ISN'T just a tired child? And then after they find out it is drugs...how do they know where it came from?

I personally saw a Wal mart  shut down for a while one day when they issued a Code Adam. Kidnapped or missing kid. Was a huge deal. Wouldn't let anyone leave the store. Cops everywhere. Someone finally thought to call the grandmother. She had seen the girl in the store and just...took her! Went home! Didn't tell anybody! Cops deal with those kinds of situations 99 times out of 100. Every day. Somebody forgets to call and say, "I took the kid home" and it becomes a nation wide alert. Typically and usually...it's nothing. It's a mistake. Someone just messes up. As a cop, I can understand why they'd rather err on the side of assuming that a crime HASN'T occurred as opposed to arresting someone falsely.

As to the condition of the mother.....Imagine for a moment you're a cop. You've been called to the hospital. The mother of the child is drunk. I mean she's falling down, slurring her words, throwing up her dinner drunk. She starts talking about how her kid has been kidnapped, and how she wants the person responsible thrown in jail,...etc etc.

The hospital then tells the police, "Yeah, the kid has drugs in her system." So the cops think about it a minute. It's been SEVERAL HOURS since the kid was returned. Mom is looped. Mom is accusing a SUNDAY SCHOOL TEACHER...the granddaughter of a local pastor...of being a kidnapper...and mom can't stand up straight. Maybe the kid was drugged by MH...or maybe Mom is so drunk she accidentally gave her kid some Xanax from her OWN prescription instead. Maybe the cops even ask the hospital staff, "You got any other evidence? Bruises? Cuts? Evidence of sexual assault?" And the hospital people say, "No. We got none of that."

What are the cops suppose to do? 

Was I there? Do I know this was how it was? No...I wasn't there. I don't what the cops saw. But IF it is anywhere close to what I just described...what were they suppose to do? Arrest a Sunday school teacher because she took a friend of her daughters to the park? Oh, yeah...that would have made it to court.

Like I say...hindsight's 20/20. Should they have arrested MH at the time? Now I think we'd all have to agree "Absolutely yes!" At the time though...I can see how this would have been seen as a minor mix up by someone who'd had a few too many to drink.

To the text highlighted in red--they investigate it.  Plain and simple.  That's their job--TO PROTECT AND SERVE!!!!!!  They chose to do nothing, and now there's blood on the hands of the Tracy PD.  If it was a question of a prescription mixup, with mom you ask the mother if she's taking Valium, or librium, or some other benzo containing concoction.  It's that simple!  I don't care about evidence of sexual assault at that point.  That can come later.  But standing right in your face is a drugged 7 year old girl!  Good God, you have a child drugged with a drug that is widely subject to abuse and you do NOTHING!!  And since you asked, if I were a cop, and I received a call of a missing child that turned up later that day to have benzo's in her system, by God I'd investigate it because 7 YEAR OLD CHILDREN SHOULD NOT HAVE BENZOS IN THEIR SYTEM!!!!!  When it comes to our children, it's better to be safe than sorry.  If you have nothing to hide, you wont be offended when you're asked. 

And I'd venture to guess the scenario was nothing like you described.  Why?  Because the mother is the one who noticed her child's uncharacteristic behavior--the slurred speech, the falling over, the inability to stand--and took her child to the hospital. I doubt she would have noticed that if she was as sloppy drunk as you suggest.

Ok, this is getting a little over the top for me.  I need to stop. 

Jess you are right on. The police screwed up big time. No matter if the mom gave the girl the drug or MH did, it is illegal and should have been investigated. 

[cece]

I hope I'm not being rude by just jumping in here, but since I'm new, maybe you forgive me.

I was looking for any information on the replacement Judge Linda Lofthus & found an interesting article from a death penalty case of last year that she presided over.  It gave me some insight into what we may expect from her in this case.  I will just post the link for those that are interested.  (That is if I can this right  )

http://www.recordnet.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080524/A_NEWS/805240318

Thank-you and WELCOME 

I've been lurking here, following this case, but I finally made it as a member!

[cece]

I hope I'm not being rude by just jumping in here, but since I'm new, maybe you forgive me.

I was looking for any information on the replacement Judge Linda Lofthus & found an interesting article from a death penalty case of last year that she presided over.  It gave me some insight into what we may expect from her in this case.  I will just post the link for those that are interested.  (That is if I can this right  )

http://www.recordnet.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080524/A_NEWS/805240318

Welcome Cece - thanks for the link!

You are most welcome for the link & I thank you for the welcome

[Edward]

Here is a post from Lousw at BFN posted today.. It is relative to, 
See no Evil
Hear no Evil
Speak no Evil.

This 14 year old is Hero material, He would make a good honorary Monkey member.
  He has found a way See and Speak and he hopes somebody Hears his message and it solves a crime against a child you and I remember

Comic Book Hero Takes on Real Life Murder Case
Teen writer hopes his latest book will help solve Amber Hagerman's murder

By  LITA BECK
Updated 7:50 AM CDT, Tue, Apr 21, 2009


A 14-year-old North Texas boy has written a comic book about the case.

Who killed Amber Hagerman? Night Owl is on the case.

A North Texas teen hopes his latest comic book will educate people about the slaying of Amber Hagerman.

Jake Tinsley, a 14-year-old comic book writer from North Texas, is teaming up with an Atlanta-based college student organization to solve the mystery.

Tinsley hopes his latest comic, "Amber Hagerman Deserves Justice," will educate people about the case.

Nine-year-old Amber was abducted and killed 13 years ago in Arlington, Texas.  Her death led to the creation of the national sex offender registry and the AMBER Alert system, but no arrest has ever been made and the case remains unsolved.

Tinsley's character Night Owl, a 12-year-old superhero who inherited powers after his grandfather's death, recounts the case and offers tips on child safety in the story.

The book is the latest comic from Tinsley, who co-founded Wham Bang Comics with his father.

"I basically wanted to inform a lot of people, especially kids, about this just in case they know something or, like, their parents know something, they can come forward," he said.

The book comes with the announcement of a yearlong investigation into Amber's death by the Cold Case Investigative Research Institute.

"We take on cases every year that have an area of research that students have not researched in the past," said Sheryl McCollum, CCIRI director. "And when we started looking at child adductions, this was just the obvious case to take on."

Donna Norris, Amber's mother, said she is ecstatic about the comic book and the renewed efforts to find her daughter's killer.

"I want him behind bars where he belongs," she said. "I am willing to do anything and everything to get him caught and get him behind bars, because my daughter Amber really needs justice."

"Amber Hagerman Deserves Justice" can be purchased from ComiXpress.comor downloaded free of charge from Wham Bang Comics' MySpace page.

[klaasend]

Hello Monkeys

See no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil what this means to me

See no evil, looks the other way when our children are being harmed because they just can't wrap their mind around this kind of evil. To afraid of what they might see

Hear no evil, doesn't want to hear about all the children that are harmed so they can pretend it doesn't happen.  To afraid of what they might hear

Speak no evil, lets just brush this under the rug if it's never spoken then it never will happen to the children. To afraid to have a voice
It's just to much for some to endure but our children endure it every day, hour, minute and second. If they can endure it then we should be able to stand up and shout it from every roof top.

We should see the evil eye to eye and stand firm
We should hear the evil of what our children are telling us
We should speak the evil because the monster's are hoping we keep our mouths shut
I don't post much but my heart is hurting for our children.

Monkey hugs

This is wonderful ..Thank You.
I do not own this forum, But if I did,
 This would be the moto for the monkeys to remember and post by.

I agree this is excellent!

[Stacey]

Hello Monkeys

See no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil what this means to me

See no evil, looks the other way when our children are being harmed because they just can't wrap their mind around this kind of evil. To afraid of what they might see

Hear no evil, doesn't want to hear about all the children that are harmed so they can pretend it doesn't happen.  To afraid of what they might hear

Speak no evil, lets just brush this under the rug if it's never spoken then it never will happen to the children. To afraid to have a voice
It's just to much for some to endure but our children endure it every day, hour, minute and second. If they can endure it then we should be able to stand up and shout it from every roof top.

We should see the evil eye to eye and stand firm
We should hear the evil of what our children are telling us
We should speak the evil because the monster's are hoping we keep our mouths shut
I don't post much but my heart is hurting for our children.

Monkey hugs

This is wonderful ..Thank You.
I do not own this forum, But if I did,
 This would be the moto for the monkeys to remember and post by.

Thank you

[no rose colored glasses]

Hello Monkeys

See no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil what this means to me

See no evil, looks the other way when our children are being harmed because they just can't wrap their mind around this kind of evil. To afraid of what they might see

Hear no evil, doesn't want to hear about all the children that are harmed so they can pretend it doesn't happen.  To afraid of what they might hear

Speak no evil, lets just brush this under the rug if it's never spoken then it never will happen to the children. To afraid to have a voice
It's just to much for some to endure but our children endure it every day, hour, minute and second. If they can endure it then we should be able to stand up and shout it from every roof top.

We should see the evil eye to eye and stand firm
We should hear the evil of what our children are telling us
We should speak the evil because the monster's are hoping we keep our mouths shut
I don't post much but my heart is hurting for our children.

Monkey hugs

This is wonderful ..Thank You.
I do not own this forum, But if I did,
 This would be the moto for the monkeys to remember and post by.

I agree, very well said Stacey

[Stacey]

Hello Monkeys

See no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil what this means to me

See no evil, looks the other way when our children are being harmed because they just can't wrap their mind around this kind of evil. To afraid of what they might see

Hear no evil, doesn't want to hear about all the children that are harmed so they can pretend it doesn't happen.  To afraid of what they might hear

Speak no evil, lets just brush this under the rug if it's never spoken then it never will happen to the children. To afraid to have a voice
It's just to much for some to endure but our children endure it every day, hour, minute and second. If they can endure it then we should be able to stand up and shout it from every roof top.

We should see the evil eye to eye and stand firm
We should hear the evil of what our children are telling us
We should speak the evil because the monster's are hoping we keep our mouths shut
I don't post much but my heart is hurting for our children.

Monkey hugs

This is wonderful ..Thank You.
I do not own this forum, But if I did,
 This would be the moto for the monkeys to remember and post by.

I agree this is excellent!

Thank you Klaas

Monkey hugs to all

[Blink34]

I hope I'm not being rude by just jumping in here, but since I'm new, maybe you forgive me.

I was looking for any information on the replacement Judge Linda Lofthus & found an interesting article from a death penalty case of last year that she presided over.  It gave me some insight into what we may expect from her in this case.  I will just post the link for those that are interested.  (That is if I can this right  )

http://www.recordnet.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080524/A_NEWS/805240318

I think this is a great post cece. Very interesting that she used a less often used method that could have made her very unpopular and Testa applauded her in the end. The more honest and fqir the judge the less likely the ruling will be over turned later on, I hope. I certainly hope we get a speedy resolution here however I would be willing to hang in there no matter how long it takes if it is done right the first time.

Thank you K9ohana.  You are very kind.  I agree, we may be here a long time with this one, but we can only hope in the end it means justice for Sandra.

Welcome Cece, and thank you very much for that info, great first post!
Blink

[no rose colored glasses]

Thanks Edward